jfrworld
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US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:47 am

There have been several threads about US and their 737's and I think we can all agree that the 737 fleet is going nowhere fast. They make up 28% of the fleet (total 97) 57 -733's and 40 - 734's.

When they do start replacing, which do we think US will look to replace first? My guess is that US will start retiring the 733 first as some of the former HP 733's are in pretty bad shape. I was on two HP 733's last year and their interiors were pretty bad - some holes and lots of patching on the interior panneling, etc. On takeoff, the interior window frame fell out and I could see the metal skin and insulation. The FA reassured me that it was simply cosmetic and gave me a free bloody mary.

It seems as though the 734's are a big newer and might last the longest.

Does anyone else have some thoughts.
 
HPRamper
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:54 am

I'm sure it won't be by model, but by whatever planes are in the most need of maintenance as their times come up, and also by age. Obviously the oldest will be going first as a general rule.
 
dutchjet
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:10 am

My understanding is that the US/HP 737 fleet is not going anywhere just yet, and the 733/734 will remain in service with the airline in medium-term future as the airline needs the lift and HP/US does not have enough A32X aircraft on order to allow for the replacment of the entire 737 fleet and allow for expansion in the coming years.

My guess is that 733s and 734s will not be retired by group, aircraft will be retired as individual leases expire and/or as individual aircraft are due for heavy maintainence, or as other events occur. A few 733s will be retired, then a few 734s will be retired, and so on, until the 733/734 fleet has been replaced.

The interesting question is what will replace this large fleet.....the quick answer is more A32X aircraft, but that may not be the case. Consider that there is a credible rumor out there that HP/US is seriously looking at the 739ER for domestic operations (think LAX and PHX to east coast routes and transcons) and the HP management was seriously considering placing a 737NG order before the entire US Airways deal came up. Or, will US/HP go directly to the next generation of single aisle airplane and be a launch customer for the next generation Boeing or Airbus airliner?
 
desertjets
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Or, will US/HP go directly to the next generation of single aisle airplane and be a launch customer for the next generation Boeing or Airbus airliner?

By 2010, if the next gen 737 or A320 is launched by then, I could see that as a possibility. Especially if the operating economics were attractive enough. And by the time 2010 rolls around the vast majority of the 737 fleet will be 20+ years old... so ripe for retirement. Plus the eldest of the A320s will be near 20 as well. Not to mention most of the 757 fleet. So if their finances are in good shape, then a large order would make sense.

However until then retiring/replacing the 737s on a case-by-case basis makes the most sense. They still form the backbone of the short to medium haul network out east and in the west.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
jfrworld
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
My guess is that 733s and 734s will not be retired by group, aircraft will be retired as individual leases expire and/or as individual aircraft are due for heavy maintainence, or as other events occur. A few 733s will be retired, then a few 734s will be retired, and so on, until the 733/734 fleet has been replaced.

.

That's a good thought. I always kind of assumed that US would retire them by group, but age does make sense.
 
PVD757
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:38 am

I personnally think that the 733 will have a life until an order for the E190 is ordered. I thought they were finishing up the negotiations on payscale for this plane. I still think that management is going to try to shove these off like they did with the E170s to the regional partners.
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:24 am

Looks like several of the -400s are being reregistered to UW suffixes. Wouldn't that indicate that they may be around at least for a little while longer ?
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 5):
I personnally think that the 733 will have a life until an order for the E190 is ordered.

Uh dude, they have already ordered the 190...

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
A330323X
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
My guess is that 733s and 734s will not be retired by group, aircraft will be retired as individual leases expire and/or as individual aircraft are due for heavy maintainence, or as other events occur. A few 733s will be retired, then a few 734s will be retired, and so on, until the 733/734 fleet has been replaced.

Yes, that's exactly what will happen, whenever that may be.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 5):
I personnally think that the 733 will have a life until an order for the E190 is ordered. I thought they were finishing up the negotiations on payscale for this plane.

I think you're just a little behind the times.  Wink

They've had a payscale in place for almost a year, and a firm EMB-190 order since February. Deliveries start in November.

Quoting Falcon Flyer (Reply 6):
Looks like several of the -400s are being reregistered to UW suffixes. Wouldn't that indicate that they may be around at least for a little while longer ?

They will indeed be around a while longer--I don't know why people have so much trouble accepting that, I really don't--but the renumbering is to align the numbers of the US and HP fleets, and to get rid of any planes which have conflicting numbers, for computer purposes. Almost every fleet type will have some numbers changed (I believe all but the A321s), not just the 737s.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
I don't know why people have so much trouble accepting that,

No problem here with that. It'll be nice to see some 400s roaming around the East Coast.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
HPRamper
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting Falcon Flyer (Reply 9):
It'll be nice to see some 400s roaming around the East Coast.

That's where they have been this whole time though  Smile As the former HP only flew the -300, those will be making more frequent appearances in the East.
 
steeler83
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
My guess is that 733s and 734s will not be retired by group, aircraft will be retired as individual leases expire and/or as individual aircraft are due for heavy maintainence, or as other events occur. A few 733s will be retired, then a few 734s will be retired, and so on, until the 733/734 fleet has been replaced.

As quite a few have stated above, I also agree with this. The 733s and 4s have been fairly dependable for US, and I don't think that they are in any hurry to replace them just yet. Yes, some of the planes are in pretty bad shape and are in need of a pretty solid fixer-upper, but these birds will be retired over time

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 5):
I personnally think that the 733 will have a life until an order for the E190 is ordered.

Yeah, as someone stated before (SOAC, I believe), they already have those on order as well as in their fleet if I am not mistaken. Also, I think that the E90 is more of a modern DC9, in terms of capacity and use for that equipment... How many do those planes seat, 90-100? and aren't they used primarily for short range as well? Although I believe that given their fuel efficiency, they could go from PHL-LAS or DEN... So in terms of their intended use, I'd say they'd be of good use on low density routes... Then again, the 733 and 734 are used for this as well. Maybe it's in terms of capacity then...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
panam330
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:12 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 11):
So in terms of their intended use, I'd say they'd be of good use on low density routes... Then again, the 733 and 734 are used for this as well. Maybe it's in terms of capacity then...

The 737s and E190s will have completely different missions for US. 737s are most certainly not used on thin routes, either. US is heavily Express in the east, and mainline aircraft are used on mostly mid- and high-density routes. The E190s will do thinner routes that a CRJ can't do, or that don't have quite the demand for a 737 or A32S. The mainline aircraft will continue to ply the heavier and/or longer routes in the system.
 
steeler83
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 12):
The 737s and E190s will have completely different missions for US. 737s are most certainly not used on thin routes, either. US is heavily Express in the east, and mainline aircraft are used on mostly mid- and high-density routes. The E190s will do thinner routes that a CRJ can't do, or that don't have quite the demand for a 737 or A32S. The mainline aircraft will continue to ply the heavier and/or longer routes in the system.

Then it's more or less my initial thoughts regarding the two aircraft...

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 11):
Also, I think that the E90 is more of a modern DC9, in terms of capacity and use for that equipment... How many do those planes seat, 90-100?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
ca2ohHP
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:29 am

They'll just phase them out as the leases expire so they don't have to renew anything. Then they'll replace the 734's with E90's on a two-for-one basis since they're cheaper to operate.  Big grin
 
thering
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:36 am

Don't think that 733 or 734 one will be retired first! They will be retired together as new A319/A320 arrives, since they have differente pax capacities!
Always good to remember that US was the first user of 734!
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MCOflyer
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:03 pm

Thering,
I believe that Piedmont was the first user of the 734. US have several 401 models.

Dutchjet,
Parker stated that new a/c orders will be Airbus. Look for more A321 a/c to be ordered as they can do transcon from CLT and PHL efficently. Also US sends them down to FLL,MCO,MIA,TPA,PBI fully loaded. Additional A319 a/c are on order.

Look for the A320-231 models to be replaced b/c of the earlier engine type. Can someone clarify if HP has any A5 models of the A320? If so, the A320-216 might be a logical choice or the 214.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
thering
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 16):
Thering,
I believe that Piedmont was the first user of the 734. US have several 401 models.

I flew one time in a US 734 and the pilot informed that that one was the first 734 in service! That's why I think US was the first to fly 734, but I can be wrong!
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MCOflyer
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:11 pm

Heres your proof Thering:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0993513/M/

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
thering
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:15 pm

Ow, you are right!
Sorry  Smile
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MCOflyer
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:16 pm

I believe US was the first to take delievery of the 733.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:27 pm

I think that Doug Parker is a VERY smart guy. Outside of mx concerns, he will retire the A/C with the highest cost. If the 734 leases are higher, you can kiss them goodbye. I don't think that they will be in the fleet over the long haul but, they aren't being retired yet. If they have the need to retire 30 or more, it will be by mx and lease cost priority.
SR
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Bluewave 707
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:13 pm

There have been a few ex-US 733s passing through HNL. I'm guessing these were leased ones that were returned to the lessors, and getting a new life.
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HPRamper
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:54 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 16):
Look for the A320-231 models to be replaced b/c of the earlier engine type. Can someone clarify if HP has any A5 models of the A320? If so, the A320-216 might be a logical choice or the 214.

HP has some of both A1 and A5, but I believe majority A5.
 
dutchjet
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 16):
Dutchjet,
Parker stated that new a/c orders will be Airbus. Look for more A321 a/c to be ordered as they can do transcon from CLT and PHL efficently. Also US sends them down to FLL,MCO,MIA,TPA,PBI fully loaded. Additional A319 a/c are on order.

I wasnt aware of this statement by Parker.........I know all about the Airbus exit loan, etc.....but that loan was paid off. As I mentioned, I have heard several rumors (yes, rumors) that US was giving the 739ER a long, hard look and is considering the type - but US is not yet ready to place orders for additional new aircraft at this time. I realize that additional A319s are on the order books.


Re the A321s - nice airplane but a big headache at PHX and LAS during the long hot desert summer. Is US seriously considering adding to its A321 fleet?
 
TL925
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:55 pm

Looking at the fleet of US Airways, they currently have 26 B737-300's either in service (21) or in storage (5) that are older than the oldest B737-400. Therefore, more than likely that B737-300's will start hitting their economic life limits with US Airways before the first B737-400.

That being said, as stated above, US Airways would not likely phase out one entire fleet or another, but rather on an aircraft by aircraft basis.
 
A330323X
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 16):
Parker stated that new a/c orders will be Airbus.



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 24):
I wasnt aware of this statement by Parker

Don't worry, that's because it doesn't exist.  Wink

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 24):
Is US seriously considering adding to its A321 fleet?

They do have 13 of them on order for delivery in 2009-10 which I certainly do believe they'll take, but I can't imagine them ordering more beyond that.

Quoting TL925 (Reply 25):
Looking at the fleet of US Airways, they currently have 26 B737-300's either in service (21) or in storage (5) that are older than the oldest B737-400.

US has no planes of any type in storage. If there's a bird parked in the desert somewhere in US colors, it's there because US is no longer leasing it.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:15 am

I want US to add the 739ER. It would be perfect for US. I have one question. Around noon there is one A321 sitting at a remote stand in SAN, couldn't they add a flt to PHX or LAS to fill capacity?

A330323X,

If the A350, 370 isnt perfect, hopefully they wiill order the B787. I would love for US to take Boeing equipt instead Airbus. No disrespect intended to Airbus fans. I love the roller coaster takeoffs and the high flare angels for landings.

About the A321,

They are perfect for US east routes, just like the 320 for the west routes. I know US flies them to LAX,SAN,SFO,DEN,LAS,PHX out west.

For the 733/734,

They use them to CLT,PIT,ALB,SYR,BUF,PHL,DCA from MCO with SYR,ALB,BUF being weekend flts only. I rode on a 734 PIT-MCO and loved it.

Hope this helps,
MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: US 737's - Which Will Go First 734 Or 733?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting Ramerinianair (Reply 21):

Parker is a smart guy. I hope he looks at the 739ER. They need those for transcons from the east and west.

Dutchjet,

From what I hear. US loves their A321 on the east coast runs to and from the Florida cities. Their the perfect size and I'll put my two cents on those being delivered next to the A330.

Btw,

US needs more ETOPS 757's. Three isnt going to cut it for Euro routes. I think US is picking up additional A/C, or converting additional a/c to ETOPS specs. A 757 capt told me this.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.

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