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United787
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Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:44 am

If Varig collapses, the Star Alliance will lose its only member based in South and Central America. My question is, what airline(s) would be most eligible to join the Star Alliance?

TACA - Already UA code share partner but is primarily Central America
Lan Chile - Already One World member
TAM - Already code share partner with AA
GOL - LCC, probably wouldn't fit with Star
Avianca?
Aerolineas Argentina?

I personally would love to see TACA, Avianca, Aerolineas Argentina and GOL join.


Since there are other threads already discussing Varig's situation, I would like to limit this to the assumption that Varig disappears.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:09 am

LA - SK must be kicking themselves for selling their stake in LA a few years
ago ( and NZ must be very annoyed that SK outbid them - they could
have had a stake in what is now the strongest carrier in South America
for a fraction of the money they wasted 'investing' in AN )

JJ - yes they are already a codeshare partner of AA - but I could imagine
the Star partners being prepared to bend over backwards to lure them
in - I can also imagine there being serious anti-trust problems with
getting them into OW - if you look at how big a market share LA/AA
already have in the USA-South America market , also taking into account
the loss of RG then perhaps having JJ in Oneworld would concentrate
too much market share in one alliance for US regulators liking ( never
mind if MX came on board as well )

AR - theoretically a great partner ( and I would love to see a Star
carrier on the Australia-New Zealand-South America route) how
are they financially these days ? Only other airline I can see in
their FF programme is JK , a star carrier. They dont really have
many ties to anybody - but up until recently I dont think anyone
wanted to have ties with them . EZE is not a well-placed hub for
South America except for traffic coming from NZ/Aus . For the European
or North American markets it is too far South - imagine flying
FRA-x/EZE-CCS or MIA-x/EZE-GRU
People often make a big deal of their part ownership by Marsans which
I believe also has a stake in JK , an existing , if minor , star carrier - I
am not sure how valid this is - a big factor against them could be the
current Argentinian administrations desire to at least partially
re-nationalize the airline.

AV - who owns them these days ? if anything they look more likely for
Skyteam ( based on the fact that their FF programme shows only
two partner airlines : AF and DL )

GOL - not sure they would be interested - too costly for them and what
real benefit would they get out of it - they are doing very nicely on
their own.
 
PDPsol
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
AV - who owns them these days ?

AV's assets were acquired while AV was in bankrupcty reorganization in 2004 by a Brasilian company called Synergy SA. Synergy is owned by a naturalized Brasilian citizen from Bolivia, German Eframovich.

Synergy also owns Ocean Air of Brasil and a 49% interest in a new carrier in Peru called Wayra, as well as small carrier in Ecuador called VIP.

Synergy acquired a number of ex-AA F100's [I believe they acquired 25] and has introduced the type at AV, Ocean and Wayra.

Synergy was also RUMORED to be interested in acquiring RG's assets during the failed auction last month.

While Synergy has stated it wishes to execute a multinational, integrated strategy involving all its regional carriers in South America, this objective appears to be medium-term.

AV is also evaluating A and B models to replace its long-haul fleet and will, most likely, select the B-787 sometime in the near future.

Finally, while Eframovich does have a significant presence in the region's civil aviation sector, his primary business is oil services, specifically off-shore oil drilling in Brasil and a shipyard in Rio de Janeiro that fabricates oil rigs and tankers.

AV has traditionally maintained tied to DL. However, with CM and Aerorepublica now in Skyteam, it could very well consider Star Alliance.
 
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United787
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
EZE is not a well-placed hub for
South America except for traffic coming from NZ/Aus . For the European
or North American markets it is too far South - imagine flying
FRA-x/EZE-CCS or MIA-x/EZE-GRU

I agree. It seems like BOG would be a better Hub.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:17 am

Personally I would like to see GOL. Sure GOL is doing well on their own but I think it would be good for them in getting a lot more traffic from UA and CO flying down to GRU and taking the remaining legs to FOR, MAO, BSB and much more! At least a code share with UA would be good. GOL I believe is in a good possition now. Sadly at RG's expense. TAM is going great as usual but I would take a wild stab in the air and say that if GOL started to get some bigger aircraft such as 757's maybe a few 767's they could claim dominance in Brazil to other latin american countries traffic.

Brazil is a big market to lose a *A member. They would need a airline in Brazil to help out in that area. That is unless of course UA started to fly some shorter routes to the north of Brazil from IAD. AA seems to be in the best possition with routes from MIA for this though.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
AR - theoretically a great partner ( and I would love to see a Star
carrier on the Australia-New Zealand-South America route)

NZ plans to fly to Brazil and EZE around 2010 possibly via PPT however.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:37 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 5):
NZ plans to fly to Brazil and EZE around 2010 possibly via PPT however.

EZE ? - all the threads I have seen up until now have said SCL and GRU
( although in any case it would be good to have a link provided by NZ ) - but would the South American routes go ahead if there is no Star partner to provide feed?
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 2):
Synergy is owned by a naturalized Brasilian citizen from Bolivia, German Eframovich.

Yes, and Efromovich is also a naturalized Colombian.

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 2):
RUMORED to be interested

It was confirmed that they were part of the initial interested parties at the beginning of the process but at the end they weren't interested anymore.


I personally will like to see AV in Star Alliance but I am not sure if it lack of presence in central America and its current destinations would be interesting enough to feed the other Star Alliance partners.. BOG is a great geographic place for a HUB though, specially now that it will be rebuilt and expanded.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
cornish
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:48 pm

Of course if the rumours of Singapore Airlines assessing the benefits of Star membership and thinking of going it alone is to be believe, Star will have a rather bigger headache soon.

JJ would be the best bet for a carrier not yet in an alliance, but I was always under the impression that Skyteam was considered more likely. But of course that was withVarig already in Star, so you never know....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:39 pm

For me the big problem Star will face has a single name: São Paulo. While AF, KLM, SA)">AA has agreements with Tam to use their domestic network, SA / LH / TP / UA probably need an agreement to even get access to Rio de Janeiro (except UA/TP), Brasilia, Curitiba, Porto Alegre and Belo Horizonte among others.

Remember that Sky Team is also looking for a South American partner.

EZE imo is bad located for a hub and BOG is not a convenient stop for Brazil as AV. Also both AV and AR will need a full range of services to more than 15 big brazilian cities (POA, CWB, CNF, BSB, GIG, SSA, REC, NAT, FOR, MAO, BEL, CPQ, GRU, IGU, FLN), they need to grow too much!

Gol is the beautiful princess, probably everyone is looking to them (and due to the fact that both Varig and Tam offer domestic services very similar to them) but their network at GRU is 50% of GIG (secondary hub) and 25% of CGH (Main Hub). Gol IMO it's the only one can fulfill Star or Sky needs, and in 2 years will be the biggest South American player (nowadays Gol runs 530 daily flights with 50 planes against 640 from Tam with around 80) due to the fact that they have less non stop service and do not keep long haul on international.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
UAL#1fan
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:43 am

United may start adding new routes to South America from IAD or apply for rights to serve some Varig routes from GRU or GIG.
United Air Lines -Mainliners Coast to Coast
 
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eta unknown
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:11 am

Star needs GOL. GOL doesn't need Star. GOL has shown they don't need any form of alliance to fill their aircraft on domestic flights.
 
commavia
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting UAL#1Fan (Reply 10):
United may start adding new routes to South America from IAD or apply for rights to serve some Varig routes from GRU or GIG.

I doubt if United and/or Dulles can really support much more South America flying beyond the continent's two largest business markets, Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting UAL#1Fan (Reply 10):
United may start adding new routes to South America from IAD or apply for rights to serve some Varig routes from GRU or GIG.

They could fly in the future IAD-GIG and IAD-GRU for example, and i believe UA will just sell Gol tickets for connections thru GIG (where Gol keep 6x daily BSB 5x daily CNF 4x daily VIX and CPQ and 7x daily CGH) to North/Northeast and GRU for south (POA, CWB, IGU and FLN)

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
I doubt if United and/or Dulles can really support much more South America flying beyond the continent's two largest business markets, Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo.

Can support Rio de Janeiro for sure, or can keep the market into AA hands who will fly very soon 12x weekly MIA-GIG (2x daily on high season).

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Southamerica
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
Gol IMO it's the only one can fulfill Star or Sky needs

GOL offers a wide network within Brazil, true.

But what can GOL offer in terms of premium service? What can passengers arriving in Lufthansa First Class expect for their flight with GOL? How would such inconsistency affect Star Alliance?

I believe Star Alliance has to look for network and frequencies, yes, but they also have to search for a company that meets certain standards of service to reduce inconsistencies between member airlines as much as possible.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
I doubt if United and/or Dulles can really support much more South America flying beyond the continent's two largest business markets, Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo.

Can support Rio de Janeiro for sure, or can keep the market into AA hands who will fly very soon 12x weekly MIA-GIG (2x daily on high season).

Is UA missing out on the Brasil market though? I would think that AA controls it with the MIA part of the flights. If you think about it, what big tourism would a brasilian do in the USA? Sure the family travel but do you exchange nice beautiful beaches of Brasil for United States beaches haha? I just think AA has the upper hand unless UA starts doing a SFO or LAX route to GRU/GIG
Don't Tread On Me!
 
SRT75
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 8):
Of course if the rumours of Singapore Airlines assessing the benefits of Star membership and thinking of going it alone is to be believe, Star will have a rather bigger headache soon

And we are assuning RG will go away.

Then I think it is reasonable to question US/HP's long-term commitment to *A.

Not terribly happy days for the Alliance.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 16):
Then I think it is reasonable to question US/HP's long-term commitment to *A.

And what would they do? Go solo? I think it is a good thing that they stay in the *. No good if they join Sky. But then again, my *A miles wouldnt be good anymore for my usual RG flights. Oh well
Don't Tread On Me!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 14):
But what can GOL offer in terms of premium service? What can passengers arriving in Lufthansa First Class expect for their flight with GOL? How would such inconsistency affect Star Alliance?

SouthAmerica please remember that RG does not offer business class or premium service, except for SCL, BOG, CCS, LIM and EZE. All domestic network plus VVI, ASU and MVD does not offer premium service.
Worst than fly with Gol is do not provide a connecting flight to fill their First Class and Business Class needs.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 14):
I believe Star Alliance has to look for network and frequencies, yes, but they also have to search for a company that meets certain standards of service to reduce inconsistencies between member airlines as much as possible.

Ocean Air could be this airline but ANAC does not allow more airlines with hub at CGH and GRU, from 4 F100 rotes approved, 2 fly thru GRU on different times (afternoon) and none thru CGH. So, i only see Gol in conditions to provide connections.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 15):
Is UA missing out on the Brasil market though? I would think that AA controls it with the MIA part of the flights. If you think about it, what big tourism would a brasilian do in the USA? Sure the family travel but do you exchange nice beautiful beaches of Brasil for United States beaches haha? I just think AA has the upper hand unless UA starts doing a SFO or LAX route to GRU/GIG

Brazilians are ranked top 5 on US tourism, ranked 3rd among all nations in terms of expenditures, like to visit New York, California, Florida, Massachusetts, Chicago and also Colorado. Beach is not really a concern, but i mean Disney, Six Flags and many go to the US just for shopping! Look to the US consulate visa line (80 days in Rio de Janeiro, 40 days in Sao Paulo) and you will verify how big is the market Brazil-US even with US$ 1,200 RT fares. UA can get part of this as they can provide connections to LAX, BOS, ORD and other places with direct links.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
many go to the US just for shopping!

Yes I know this one. When I lived in Michigan for the last 2 years, I worked at Best Buy and I met a group of Brasilians and I was talking with them and helping them out because I was the only one that could understand portugese, but they were purchasing ipods, computer parts, car stereos, to take back to Brasil for christmas gifts.

Could HP/US be thinking about entering the Brasil market now with RG on the down swing?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
Brazilians are ranked top 5 on US tourism, ranked 3rd among all nations in terms of expenditures

What country has the most Brasilian travel for vacations and NOT buisness? Is Germany on the top? Would be interesting to know where Brasilians call a good vacation.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
Southamerica
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
All domestic network plus VVI, ASU and MVD does not offer premium service.

I was unaware of that. Thanks for the data.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
Worst than fly with Gol is do not provide a connecting flight to fill their First Class and Business Class needs.

True. Realistically, the ideal associate member for the Brazilian market would be TAM, and they would still eventually need another airline in Latin America to completely cover the region. Other than TAM, it would be choosing between "the less worst".


SOUTHAMERICA
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 am

Court both TAM (JJ) and Aerolineas Argentinas (AR):

- Have both a major Spanish and Portuguese speaking airline in Latin America.
- Have hubs in EZE, GRU and GIG.
- Directly combat Lan's (LA) pan-South-American approach.

IMHO
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 19):
Could HP/US be thinking about entering the Brasil market now with RG on the down swing?

Unfortunately the Bilateral does not allow this. The only reason now AA, DL, UA and CO flies to Brazil is that in the past RG, JJ, VP and TR use to fly to the United States. HP and US need that three new Brazilian players fly to the US market in order to release/allow a new player (as well as the number of free frequencies are now only 2 per week and need to be improved).

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 19):
What country has the most Brasilian travel for vacations and NOT buisness? Is Germany on the top? Would be interesting to know where Brasilians call a good vacation.

Its hard to say about only vacation, but i'm sure about only the top 3:
Argentina, United States and France. Portugal, Spain, Chile, Italy and Germany are also strong markets for vacation.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 20):
I was unaware of that. Thanks for the data.

Always welcome.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 20):
True. Realistically, the ideal associate member for the Brazilian market would be TAM, and they would still eventually need another airline in Latin America to completely cover the region. Other than TAM, it would be choosing between "the less worst

Agree with you, but seems that TAM is not looking for an alliance nowadays as they have agreements with both Sky Team (AF/KLM) and OW (AA).

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:57 am

Well, in case none of you have noticed, RG has disappeared from the Star Alliance list of airlines.....

http://www.star-alliance.com/star_alliance/star/frame/main_10.html


Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
commavia
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
Can support Rio de Janeiro for sure, or can keep the market into AA hands who will fly very soon 12x weekly MIA-GIG (2x daily on high season).

There is no way that United could support a Dulles-Rio flight long-term. Maybe they could get it to work on a less-than-daily basis, during the peak December-February period only, and only if they cut the daily continuation of the Dulles-Sao Paulo flight. But even that is a stretch. United's current Dulles-Sao Paulo-Rio pattern is quite sufficient.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 15):
I just think AA has the upper hand unless UA starts doing a SFO or LAX route to GRU/GIG

The California-Brazil flights are notoriously low-yielding, which is why VARIG is not going to be returning to Los Angeles, even though Miami and New York made the company's slimmed-down international network short list. I think United's current service pattern to Brazil (dailies from Chicago and Dulles) is quite sufficient given United's domestic hub structure, and its lack of presence in any really important Latin American markets in the U.S., save in Los Angeles which, once again, is not the best place for a Brazil flight (especially since the suspension of TWOV).

If United were smart vis-a-vis South America, they'd stick with the plan they've been following the last few years -- namely, let others have it. Let American continue to dominate the area it knows best, and let Delta and Continental continue to fight it out for a distant #2. Meanwhile, United should focus on its core competencies when it comes to the global market, namely Asia. That means continuing to bolster their network in the Pacific Rim region, and continuing to seek out new opportunities to open up new markets to its U.S. domestic hub structure (Chicago, San Francisco, and to a lesser extent, Los Angeles) that are perfectly positioned to handle this type of traffic.
 
dj1986
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 14):
But what can GOL offer in terms of premium service? What can passengers arriving in Lufthansa First Class expect for their flight with GOL? How would such inconsistency affect Star Alliance?

I believe Star Alliance has to look for network and frequencies, yes, but they also have to search for a company that meets certain standards of service to reduce inconsistencies between member airlines as much as possible.

Exactly. LH already has that problem on UA/TED. Many people arrive into IAD, ORD or DEN on LH C-Class or even F-Class and have to continue in Y with TED. Today for example UA mainline (Summer explus) does only serve RSW in Florida all other cities are served by TED. I don't think LH is willing to accept that in Brazil because their customers won't.
US Airways I miss you!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 24):
There is no way that United could support a Dulles-Rio flight long-term. Maybe they could get it to work on a less-than-daily basis, during the peak December-February period only, and only if they cut the daily continuation of the Dulles-Sao Paulo flight. But even that is a stretch. United's current Dulles-Sao Paulo-Rio pattern is quite sufficient.

Commavia i agree in part with you. When UA offer the 2nd flight they could run IAD-GRU and IAD-GIG.

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 23):
Well, in case none of you have noticed, RG has disappeared from the Star Alliance list of airlines.....

http://www.star-alliance.com/star_al....html

Lee, the link is still there, just below US Airlines (as www.varig.com/). And if you look for flights, they also keep showing RG flights (i tried GIG-FRA)

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
SRT75
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 17):
And what would they do? Go solo? I think it is a good thing that they stay in the *.

I completely agree, US/HP is best suited to remain in *A. However, there have been several "rumor" topics here on A.net that the merged company may want out of the Alliance. And as a "low cost" carrier US/HP may very well want to strike it out alone or look for individual "relationships" with other airlines, a la AS and the new plan for EI.
 
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United787
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 23):
Well, in case none of you have noticed, RG has disappeared from the Star Alliance list of airlines.....

They are still listed on the left hand side.
 
AJMIA
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
I can also imagine there being serious anti-trust problems with
getting them into OW - if you look at how big a market share LA/AA
already have in the USA-South America market

Do you need government approval to join an airline alliance? I thought since they were not mergers that no approval was required.
I don't remember hearing that any new partners in an alliance were ever "pending government approval."

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:15 am

Quoting UAL#1Fan (Reply 10):
United may start adding new routes to South America from IAD or apply for rights to serve some Varig routes from GRU or GIG.

United has no aircraft and no aircraft on order to do any expansion to anywhere. They need widebodies but CEO Tilton says no order will be placed until United's debt to equity ratio improves...hopefully in late 2007. If they add a route, they eliminate one elsewhere.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:13 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 28):
They are still listed on the left hand side

Strange, as I cant see them. The list ends with US Airways.



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 29):
Do you need government approval to join an airline alliance?

while you dont need approval to join an alliance you do need approval for anti-trust immunity to co-operate effectively - just look at BA/AA to see how difficult things are without anti-trust immunity between partners - AA and BA ff cannot earn mileage on the other partner on transatlantic routes
 
AJMIA
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 32):
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 29):
Do you need government approval to join an airline alliance?

while you dont need approval to join an alliance you do need approval for anti-trust immunity to co-operate effectively - just look at BA/AA to see how difficult things are without anti-trust immunity between partners - AA and BA ff cannot earn mileage on the other partner on transatlantic routes

Ah OK... I understand. But the FF and codeshare programs with AA and JJ are already in place. Would these have to be altered if JJ joined oneworld? Did RG and UA have any restrictions in Star?

AA and JJ have a great working relationship at MIA and I would love to see them join oneworld.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
commavia
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 33):
But the FF and codeshare programs with AA and JJ are already in place. Would these have to be altered if JJ joined oneworld?

Correct. American and TAM already have a codeshare and frequent flyer cooperation agreement in place. In order for TAM to join oneworld, they would have to get a sponsor carrier among the current members (almost certainly American, with some assistance probably from LAN) and then they would have to go about the process of standardizing their operating systems with oneworld standard, including interline eticketing with all members, etc., and familiarizing their staff with oneworld customer benefits and customer service procedures, so that a uniform alliance product would be offered. The process has typically taken 12-18 months in the past.

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 33):
AA and JJ have a great working relationship at MIA and I would love to see them join oneworld.

Agreed. I think that TAM and oneworld would be a perfect fit.
 
123
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting United787 (Thread starter):
If Varig collapses, the Star Alliance will lose its only member based in South and Central America

Maybe this will cause many airlines to rethink of only codesharing. LH used to have a great network in Latin America and it was dropped in favor of RG. Now that RG is failing in the alliance, who will feed the markets? Can LH quickly pick up the market share they gave on a silk pillow to RG in the past?

Alliances are great - Staralliance is one I use(d) a lot however in the future the Alliances should reconsider if they want to pass over routes to partners, or remain on the routes and cooperate. RG is one example and also the Germany-Australia flights are another. The LH dependance on TG is too big from my point of view.
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 30):
United has no aircraft and no aircraft on order to do any expansion to anywhere.

No Expansion???

What again do you call Kuwait? Or what did you call Saigon?
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 36):

No Expansion???

What again do you call Kuwait? Or what did you call Saigon?

You should have posted my entire comment. I also said no new routes without eliminating routes and/or capacity elsewhere. Saigon and Kuwait come at a cost to capacity from where United shuffled 777s and 747s. They can't do much more of that without a huge impact on operations. Have you been in a United terminal the past week? They're dying because they've had to cancel so many flights and they've got no lift on which to reschedule passengers. When an airline has no spares and flights cancel....the customer suffers. Lines galore. I haven't been a happy flyer this week and from the comments I've heard this week, United is letting a lot of people down.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
planecrazy2
Posts: 573
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RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:47 am

Oh yeah it's gonna be real fun for UA flyers tomorrow.
United Airlines - Worldwide Service
 
User avatar
United787
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting Planecrazy2 (Reply 38):
Oh yeah it's gonna be real fun for UA flyers tomorrow.

Why tomorrow?
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:45 am

A few years ago, LH's CEO came to Santiago to speak with LA people for leaving oneworld and joining Star Alliance. Thanks god he failed.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 14):
But what can GOL offer in terms of premium service? What can passengers arriving in Lufthansa First Class expect for their flight with GOL? How would such inconsistency affect Star Alliance?



Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 14):
so have to search for a company that meets certain standards of service

Really? I don't think One world bothers about IB charging for food in regional flights, or AA "below average" service. Besides, I think that Star competitive advantage is based in number of members/destinations than to offer a premium service. Star look as the alliance almost anyone can join, so I think AV and AR are just fine for them

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
Chile

Specially nowadays with the ski season beginning... always welcomed!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 34):
American and TAM already have a codeshare and frequent flyer cooperation agreement in place. In order for TAM to join oneworld

And LA has codeshare with KE and AM... AS, etc. I think JJ is free for joining any alliance, specially now that they are finally expanding in regional destinations...

Regards )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
commavia
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting Arcano (Reply 40):
And LA has codeshare with KE and AM... AS, etc. I think JJ is free for joining any alliance, specially now that they are finally expanding in regional destinations...

Excuse me, but would you mind reading my entire posts before quoting only a section of them. I'm not saying that because TAM and AA already have an alliance, TAM is definitely going to join oneworld. In fact, I was responding to a question from another poster about what it would take for TAM to join oneworld, if (key word) it so chose.
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting Arcano (Reply 40):
Really? I don't think One world bothers about IB charging for food in regional flights, or AA "below average" service.

Both airlines offer at least two different cabins onboard their aircraft, hence the possibility of providing a minimally differential service on any given flight. That's enough to put them miles away from a low-cost carrier such as GOL.

If Oneworld didn't bother at all, they could have chosen to kill two birds with one stone by luring easyJet or Ryanair [example], instead of having four different European members. After all, a passenger arriving to Dublin on Aer Lingus First Class could be perfectly put on Ryanair for its onward leg right? No complaints?


SOUTHAMERICA
 
SRT75
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 39):
Why tomorrow?

The busiest travel day of the 4 July holiday weekend.
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 41):
Excuse me,

Fine, you are excused. I would humbly suggest you to relax for a while and understand that is not a sin to quote parts of text. There's no need to be a baby because you are too fragile to read a reply

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 42):
Both airlines offer at least two different cabins onboard their aircraft, hence the possibility of providing a minimally differential service on any given flight.

OK, you have a valid point there, and I think you're right, although I don't think service will be the priority for choosing an airline to join an alliance. Still, I see your point
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
commavia
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Star Alliance If Varig Disappears?

Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting Arcano (Reply 44):
I would humbly suggest you to relax for a while and understand that is not a sin to quote parts of text. There's no need to be a baby because you are too fragile to read a reply

Well then I would humbly request that the next time you quote me, please don't take a specific piece of my comments out of context. That's all. I'm not acting like a baby, just simply asking that you don't incorrectly interpret what I clearly mean when my entire comment is read in its entirety.