DL763DFW
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Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:55 am

Just got an transcript email from a Q&A with Delta CEO Jerry Grinstein and DL employees. Some very interesting things were brought up. Here are a few exerpts from the email :

"We will have to buy new aircraft as well. We will look at the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 as logical planes for us. We have two long range 777s on order and will confirm them with Boeing in July. The 787 or A350 orders will have to wait until after we exit bankruptcy"

I'm not sure if he is referring to 777-200LRs or just regular 777-200ERs.

"If we can obtain 757s that are over-the-water (ETOPS) configured we could move some of these to some of the Hawaii routes and free up more 767s for longer international routes. We could also use these 757s for trans-Atlantic leisure markets such as Ireland"

This has been discussed on here lots but it's the first I've heard from management that they are considering it. This is some interesting stuff.

-DL763DFW
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting DL763DFW (Thread starter):
"We will have to buy new aircraft as well. We will look at the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 as logical planes for us. We have two long range 777s on order and will confirm them with Boeing in July. The 787 or A350 orders will have to wait until after we exit bankruptcy"

I'm not sure if he is referring to 777-200LRs or just regular 777-200ERs.

Well, it could indeed be the 772LRs, because a) I doubt that he'd otherwise put a focus on the "long range", and b), the current 772ER orders have been confirmed long ago, so no need in confirming an already confirmed order. Still I guess we'll have to wait until July to know for sure.

Quoting DL763DFW (Thread starter):
"If we can obtain 757s that are over-the-water (ETOPS) configured we could move some of these to some of the Hawaii routes and free up more 767s for longer international routes. We could also use these 757s for trans-Atlantic leisure markets such as Ireland"

This has been discussed on here lots but it's the first I've heard from management that they are considering it. This is some interesting stuff.

Indeed interesting to hear it straight from Gerry himself. Putting 757ETOPS on Hawaii-SLC/SFO/LAX flights thereby freeing up around 5-7 764s, don't know how the planes are currently routed, which could then be used for more transatlantic flights, and 5-7 additional planes is plenty enough for another major expansion in 2007, especially is you also include the 2 777s mentioned above. So in other words, sending 757ETOPS across the pond would not be necessary for DL to add more Euro flights.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:09 am

I really hope Delta doesn't put 757s on HNL routes. While it is okay to OGG and KOA, I would like Delta to fly widebodies exclusively to HNL, as does Continental. I plan to fly the 767-400ER to Hawaii some day. If not, maybe I should look into transatlantic 767-400ER routes. I have flown the 767-400ER four times: MCO-ATL (July 2003), ATL-TPA (March 2005), TPA-ATL (March 2005), and SLC-ATL (June 1, 2006). Hopefully by the time I fly to HNL if the 767-400ERs are still flying there, they will have PTVs installed.

While Delta is considering both the 787 and A350, I don't think Delta will go with the A350 as it destroys Delta's fleet simplification plans.
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TokyoNarita
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:24 am

Highly unlikely they would go for the LR as they are GE90s....the wavy fan blades...seems like it is way too expensive investment for only two airframes for Delta. I believe the LRs don't come with Trent option.

TokyoNarita.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 3):
Highly unlikely they would go for the LR as they are GE90s....the wavy fan blades...seems like it is way too expensive investment for only two airframes for Delta. I believe the LRs don't come with Trent option.

Not necessarily an issue - DL has a history of operating different engines on different birds - the 767s.

As for 2 vs. more, DL will probably confirm orders for more -200LRs (if that's what they're getting) when they get out of BK along with a boat load of GE powered 787s.

i'll put $5 on that one
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worldtraveler
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:36 am

I'll put $55 on an order for 777-200LRs.

Part of the attraction of widebodies to Hawaii is the cargo business, something the 757 cannot accommodate. However, AA and UA both fly a combination of widebodies and 757s to Hawaii which means they are able to get incremental passengers without giving up the cargo business.

What is the date of this transcript (or when did Grinstein say this)?

There will always be some leisure markets that do not need a business elite product, including summer supplemental service to cities that are served year round with BizElite aircraft. Ireland is a good example of a market that needs lots of extra summer capacity and is well within the range of the 757. Other markets in the UK come to mind as well.
 
tinpusher007
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
I really hope Delta doesn't put 757s on HNL routes.

The only HNL routes that would likely see 757's are LAX and SFO. I don't believe even the ETOPS 757 has the range for SLC-HNL and certainly not ATL or CVG to HNL, those would likely remian operated by 764's. LAX-HNL has so much capacity and is well known for being low-yielding. Operating 757's would be a good thing because it will allow them to maintain their presence while reducing some capacity.
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Alitalia744
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:43 am

My only sincere and bias hope is that Delta orders the 787 upon exit from bankruptcy.

The plane seems like it was designed with them and most operators in mind, and I'm partial to boeing.
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:13 am

Jerry would be a fool to order Airbus at this point...wrong aircraft for the fleet. He probably only said it to let Boeing know that they haven't scored the order just yet.

I'd love to see some more -400's enter the fleet though...now's the time.

DeltaGuy
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DL763DFW
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
What is the date of this transcript (or when did Grinstein say this)?

This meeting took place June 14, 2006. I would include the link to the entire Q&A session, but it's on the Delta intranet, thus only being accesible from a Delta VPN. It's also too large to post here.
 
as739x
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:40 am

Tinpusher: All the 757's will have to be ETOPS. There is no difference in range. So SFO-LAX would/could go to the 757. SLC service I think could be done by a 757, without weighing in the environment. SLC-HNL is 2992 mi. and LGW-CLE is 3744, so this leads me to believe it can be done.

ASLAX
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DeltaSFO
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:41 am

There have been repeated comments made internally by various Delta executives all but confirming that Delta will:
- convert the remaining 777 delivery slots to 777-200LRs
- make a final decision about the 767 replacement around the end of this summer
- following emergence from bankruptcy, confirm and announce an order for more 777 category aircraft and the aforementioned 767 replacement

Recent announcements of production ramp ups by airframe manufacturers seem to have come at quite the convenient time.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
NYC777
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 11):
There have been repeated comments made internally by various Delta executives all but confirming that Delta will:
- convert the remaining 777 delivery slots to 777-200LRs
- make a final decision about the 767 replacement around the end of this summer
- following emergence from bankruptcy, confirm and announce an order for more 777 category aircraft and the aforementioned 767 replacement

So from what I've gleaned from this thread is:

2 possibly more 772LRs (a conversion and possibly new orders)
767 replacement which means they'll evaluate the 787 vs A350/A370..787 is the odds on favorite...interesting that they plan on finalizing a decision at the end of the summer does this mean an order will be placed this fall?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
transtar01
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:57 am

I have flown them all from mainland to Hawaii. The absolute best flight, best service, and best aircraft from LAX to HNL and back is the Continental 767-400 flight.

Why would anyone want to fly a 757 after an experience on a beautiful wide body aircraft, superb PTV systems, great meals, and the typical outstanding Continental Airlines service.

Try it. You will like it.
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:00 am

They maybe talking about using the B757's on the LAX-HNL routes. I can't see them using the B757's from SLC, ATL, or CVG.... They have alot of flights from LAX.

Chuck P
 
DALelite
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 am

didn't DL signed a exclusiv contract with Boing for like 15 years?

DALelite
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting DALelite (Reply 15):
didn't DL signed a exclusiv contract with Boing for like 15 years?

The EU forced the deal to be voided after Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas merged.
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exusair
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:29 am

It is my understanding that the SFO-HNL flight is operated on behalf of a freight company and is profitable without carrying any passengers.

The cost disparity of operating a 767-400 as opposed to a 757 is overcome by the ability to carry 1/3 more passengers and freight. For that reason, I believe the 767-400 will remain on service to HNL and OGG from SLC and LAX. The 757's would be used for KOA, with an upgrade to a larger a/c during peak travel. Or perhaps operating 2 flights from SLC-HNL on a 757 opposed to 1 daily on the 400.

Possibly opening new markets from California to Hawaii such as SAN-HNL or LAX-LIH or KOA.

Personally, I would like to see a return of ANC-LAX service as well as new service to SJO from LAX.

Flying the 757 to Ireland in winter and 2x daily in summer from JFK and possibly BOS makes perfect sense.
 
mlsrar
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 6):
I don't believe even the ETOPS 757 has the range for SLC-HNL

2994 SM is well within the range of a 757, even PW-powered.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
While it is okay to OGG and KOA, I would like Delta to fly widebodies exclusively to HNL, as does Continental

That's probably the thinking behind moving 75s to OGG and KOA. The demand for cargo is HNL, so they would likely continue with 76 service to HNL.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:45 am

the equation is not just 764s vs 757s. DL also has 21 763s nonER/nonETOPS. It is relatively inexpensive to convert these aircraft to ETOPS configs which provides widebody capability to the west coast and SLC where it is needed while keeping the 764s only on ATL/CVG flights.

While DL has operated just one aircraft type to Hawaii at a time (1st the L10, now the 764 - and 763 on ATLOGG), it will likely have a multi-type fleet to Hawaii that includes nonER 763s, 764s, and 757s.

And as for why passengers fly on any aircraft, price is a major factor. Much of the business to Hawaii is under contract to the large tour operators which AA, DL, and UA have a much better lock on than CO. Despite what alot of people here think, the vast majority of the travelling public can make it just fine without PTV on a 6 hr flight to Hawaii - and with minimal food. They are happy if they get there on-time, with their bags, and are not treated rudely. Sadly, that is the state of service industries in the US but it is reality.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting Exusair (Reply 17):
The cost disparity of operating a 767-400 as opposed to a 757 is overcome by the ability to carry 1/3 more passengers and freight. For that reason, I believe the 767-400 will remain on service to HNL and OGG from SLC and LAX. The 757's would be used for KOA, with an upgrade to a larger a/c during peak travel. Or perhaps operating 2 flights from SLC-HNL on a 757 opposed to 1 daily on the 400.

 checkmark  I do think they'll keep a 764 on all SLC flights except to KOA, where it will be converted to a 752 with ETOPS, they have the range even on a weight restricted, hot, gosh-awful SLC summer day like we had today (98F/37C).  hot 
The 772s will be the LR model I'm quite sure for going to South Africa, India and eventually China from ATL, JFK and possibly LAX.
What Jerry pointed out confirms to me what DL has plans to do and follow the post BK fleet transition that AC has implemented by replacing 762ER, 763ER & non-ER a/c with a 787. I just don't see Airbus cracking into DL as a customer with all of the headaches they are going through with the A350/A370. DL wants to keep fleet simplification.
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tinpusher007
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:52 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 10):
Tinpusher: All the 757's will have to be ETOPS. There is no difference in range. So SFO-LAX would/could go to the 757. SLC service I think could be done by a 757, without weighing in the environment. SLC-HNL is 2992 mi. and LGW-CLE is 3744, so this leads me to believe it can be done.



Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 18):
Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 6):
I don't believe even the ETOPS 757 has the range for SLC-HNL

2994 SM is well within the range of a 757, even PW-powered.

I stand corrected as far as range is concerned. I still believe however that the only routes to HNL that may be downgraded to a 757 are SFO and LAX. SLC being a DL hub with connections thru SLC on to HNL will probably remain a 764 IMHO.
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worldtraveler
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:00 pm

If DL puts some 757s on Hawaii routes, it will be for the thinner routes and for routes with multiple flights. I agree that HNL will see 767 service to every gateway on at least one flight.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:00 pm

[quote=Exusair,reply=17]Possibly opening new markets from California to Hawaii such as SAN-HNL or LAX-LIH or KOA.
You could definitely see new Hawaii routes with ETOPS757s, though I doubt it would be from someplace else than SLC or LAX. DL doesn't really have a stronghold in other markets, so it would not be worth the try. Now, SLC-LIH would probably be a given, along with SLC-KOA going 757 as well. LAX-KOA would probably be next, with the last being LAX-LIH.
Now, the 763s are an interesting point as well. At 24 planes, the fleet is not to shabby, so a few of those could easily be used to Hawaii as well. That said, I could very well imagine that the 764s to Hawaii could soon be limited to the 2x daily ATL-HNL and daily CVG-HNL flight, 763ER on ATL-OGG, 763 on LAX/SLC/SFO-HNL, and 757s on LAX/SLC-OGG/KOA/LIH, and perhaps as additional capacity on LAX-HNL.
 
dl021
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:04 pm

I seriously doubt that the 777 confirmations will be LRs. I think that he means he's going to tell Boeing that they won't be deferring or selling those slots to anyone else, and they'll take delivery of the two scheduled ERs to supplement the existing fleet. 2 LRs would not be enough to ensure regularity on any routes DL has that would require that extra range, whereas 2 more ERs would really come in handy with the extra international routes coming online.

I really am looking forward to DL flying the 787 (I don't really see them as a player for the Airbus, although with the right financing package and service support you can't ever say for sure until the engines are turning with blue and red cowlings).

What I'd really like to see is Delta recovering to the point that there is a new Spirit of Delta. That'd be very nice.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 23):
Now, the 763s are an interesting point as well. At 24 planes, the fleet is not to shabby, so a few of those could easily be used to Hawaii as well.

The domestic 767-300s are not ETOPS, and I don't think Delta will spend the money on getting them ETOPS-rated.
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DLPMMM
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:39 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 24):
I seriously doubt that the 777 confirmations will be LRs. I think that he means he's going to tell Boeing that they won't be deferring or selling those slots to anyone else, and they'll take delivery of the two scheduled ERs to supplement the existing fleet. 2 LRs would not be enough to ensure regularity on any routes DL has that would require that extra range, whereas 2 more ERs would really come in handy with the extra international routes coming online.

I think you are right on the money here. The whole reconfirming thing could also just be a Chapter 11 procedure where DL petitions the Judge to reconfirm the order thereby allowing DL to accept delivery and guarantee Boeing's payment via whatever financing mechanism is being used.
 
goCOgo
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 20):
The 772s will be the LR model I'm quite sure for going to South Africa, India and eventually China from ATL, JFK and possibly LAX.

All this with 2 frames? Seriously, folks, they will be ERs, not LRs. He probably means "long range 777s" in the sense that they are the longest range planes in Delta's fleet.
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DAYflyer
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:48 pm

I never thought I would see the day when DL would confirm more 777's entering the fleet.
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commavia
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:48 pm

Why does Delta need 777-200LRs?

I would have said to fly nonstop JFK-India, but it looks like Delta feels confident they can do that with their current 777s. Or maybe is it that Delta wants to ditch the stopover and fly nonstop Atlanta-Johannesburg? Otherwise, where else does Delta think its going to need airplanes with an almost 10,000nm range? I doubt they'll be expanding in Asia much soon, as there really is no opportunities there for them short of perhaps the China authority, which I don't think they'll get.
 
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:52 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 7):
My only sincere and bias hope is that Delta orders the 787 upon exit from bankruptcy.



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 8):
Jerry would be a fool to order Airbus at this point...wrong aircraft for the fleet. He probably only said it to let Boeing know that they haven't scored the order just yet.

There's no chance of Delta getting A350's....lol. It's just not happening.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:11 pm

all the "experts" have weighed in... it's time to let DL do its thing and let the accuracy of some of the predictions here be weighed.
 
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airzim
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 29):
Why does Delta need 777-200LRs?

I would have said to fly nonstop JFK-India, but it looks like Delta feels confident they can do that with their current 777s. Or maybe is it that Delta wants to ditch the stopover and fly nonstop Atlanta-Johannesburg? Otherwise, where else does Delta think its going to need airplanes with an almost 10,000nm range? I doubt they'll be expanding in Asia much soon, as there really is no opportunities there for them short of perhaps the China authority, which I don't think they'll get.

I agree completely. It makes no economic sense for any US carrier to buy 777LR's. Certainly not at the price premium that Boeing is charging for them.

Delta is spending money like a drunken soldier in Manila.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:43 pm

Actually, DL is spending very little to facilitate a transformation as big as they are executing. Take a look at CO’s balance sheet and see how much debt they had to take on in order to grow to the size they have become as an international carrier. DL is probably spending well less than $5 million per plane to convert its 763s and -4s for int’l use and in so doing is tapping into a number of int’l markets which everyone else has ignored and which are proving to have high profit potential for DL – while at the same time right-sizing capacity on its domestic system.

The LR has more range than the 787 and thus could well be a very viable option for DL to expand deep into Asia while carrying cargo, an essential part of int’l expansion. Note that SQ is saying their 345 routes are not profitable and I’m sure a big reason why is because those aircraft cannot carry cargo (other than the dead body in the cabin  Smile ) over the distances they are being flown.
 
commavia
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 33):
The LR has more range than the 787 and thus could well be a very viable option for DL to expand deep into Asia while carrying cargo, an essential part of int’l expansion.

Right, and where exactly "deep in Asia" does Delta have even the slightest chance of expanding to, for passengers, cargo or both?

China is really the only place in Asia beyond Japan where Delta might have even a tiny shot, and even that is pretty tiny, in my opinion. Hong Kong, Bangkok, Singapore -- these markets are all way out of Delta's league because Delta has virtually no market presence whatsoever in Asia, and hasn't for a very, very long time. In addition, even if they did have a strong market presence in the region through codeshares, etc., it still doesn't change the fact that Delta's hub structure is woefully incompatible with any major expansion in Asia.

The only two Delta hubs that really could ever be considered viable candidates for new Asia service is Atlanta and JFK -- JFK for O&D, Atlanta for the plethora of connections -- but both come with major problems.

Both hubs are way too far east to viably serve the majority of U.S.-Asia traffic originating west of the Mississippi, and Atlanta is way too far south, and has way too little O&D to justify more Asia flying beyond Tokyo and maybe a flight to China years down the road. JFK is way to solidified of a market to need Delta's presence on any routes to Asia besides maybe China, and Delta would be going up against much more entrenched players in the market, that offer their own nonstops and good connections, like American, Continental, Northwest and United, to say nothing of JAL, ANA, Air China, Korean, Cathay Pacific, etc.
 
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airzim
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:55 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 33):
Take a look at Co's balance sheet and see how much debt they had to take on in order to grow to the size they have become as an international carrier.

Not true. First, they have all new aircraft, something DL does not have. Delta is going to have replace the gas guzzling MD-80's, older 767's and 757's and buy new aircraft to replace them in the next 5 years? How do you think they're going to finance them? With your undying love for the widget? That's called debt too. Oh and right now, no lender is going to give them money until they emerge, which I don't see happening for another 6 months.

Secondly CO used significant capital to buy out of the NW stranglehold.

Third, CO was a significantly profitable investment for every airline that invested in them including SK, AC and NW.

Lastly, isn't CO 757 conversion to international analogous to your DL 767 conversion?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:03 am

While DL has been interested in the 772LR since the program was launched, lack of money has been at least one of the reasons they never pulled the trigger on an order.

That being said, I do agree with those who believe two frames is too little to support new scheduled service. Is there one route where DL's 772ER is consistently payload-limited? A 772LR would allow more headroom in such a case, and two frames might be enough, since if one is out for MX, you just sub in a 772ER and take the payload hit.
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:05 am

From what I uderstand, DL is currently looking at AA's ex-TWA 757. They are all PW powered as are AAs, plus they are all ER's. They could be a very good fit for DL, after AA returns them to the lessor
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 35):
First, they have all new aircraft, something DL does not have.

I'm sorry, all new aircraft? Help me understand something, CO has what - 45 or so 737-300s? Their 737 classic fleet averages (per airfleets) approximately 14.3 years old. What is considered new to you AirZim?
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 32):
Delta is spending money like a drunken soldier in Manila.

But sometimes you have to spend money to make money and turn a profit again.

IMO, Delta's doing the right moves to get out of Ch. 11.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
papatango
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:11 am

DL763dfw Where on the Delta site is this q&a session? I was on the site this am and could not find it. thx
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 37):
From what I uderstand, DL is currently looking at AA's ex-TWA 757. They are all PW powered as are AAs, plus they are all ER's. They could be a very good fit for DL, after AA returns them to the lessor

Slightly incorrect, they are looking at AA's ex-TWA 757s, but AA powers their birds by RR and TW had PWs.

There is no such thing as an "ER" 757, it's ET and equates to Etops
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
dc10s4ever
Posts: 700
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 41):
Slightly incorrect, they are looking at AA's ex-TWA 757s, but AA powers their birds by RR and TW had PWs.

oops I ment to say that the ex-TWA are PW as are DL's. I have not had my coffee yet.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 41):
There is no such thing as an "ER" 757, it's ET and equates to Etops

Hmmm AA referes to all their 757s that they use for Hawaii, and Europe to the 757-223ER, maybe it is just an AA thing.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting Papatango (Reply 40):
DL763dfw Where on the Delta site is this q&a session? I was on the site this am and could not find it. thx



Quoting DL763DFW (Reply 9):
This meeting took place June 14, 2006. I would include the link to the entire Q&A session, but it's on the Delta intranet, thus only being accesible from a Delta VPN. It's also too large to post here.

Sometimes it can be useful to read a thread before replying to it  Wink .

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 41):
There is no such thing as an "ER" 757

Except the USAF's C-32s  Wink , though of course those aren't commercial planes. I could go on a rant about Boeing not actually building a 752ER with the C-32s capabilities, but then I'd still be typing tomorrow.
 
AirRyan
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting DL763DFW (Thread starter):
"We will have to buy new aircraft as well. We will look at the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 as logical planes for us.

Oh yeah, Delta buying soon to be defunct A350's let alone A370's, that is a real possibility, isn't it?!
 
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airzim
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 38):
CO has what - 45 or so 737-300s

45 out of 300 airplane. Sorry only 15%. Plus they're replacing many of those with new 737NG order that are still coming in. Try again.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 39):
But sometimes you have to spend money to make money and turn a profit again.

IMO, Delta's doing the right moves to get out of Ch. 11.

Well then that would be the first time ever!
 
coa747
Posts: 380
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 38):
I'm sorry, all new aircraft? Help me understand something, CO has what - 45 or so 737-300s? Their 737 classic fleet averages (per airfleets) approximately 14.3 years old. What is considered new to you AirZim?

The average age of Continental's fleet is much less than that given all the 737NG's and 767's and 777's they have. Yes the 737-300's are still around but Delta still has some 737-200's floating around which are more costly and less efficient to operate than the 300's. So don't get ahead of yourself.

In fact Delta was one of the last carriers to get rid of their 727's. They had some real pieces of junk in their 727 fleet. Mostly the old birds they got from Western. I know. My brother used to work for Delta in Austin and those things were always going technical. When they weren't they leaked oil by the case. They still had some 200 the non advanced versions flying around. Those things really stunk and in their latter days the whole fleet was relegated to flying close to the hubs so when they broke down they would be fairly close to home. Their were times in the summer when the SLC flight would go out with no bags and -25 pax due to weight/performance issues. That was out of the old Mueller airport but Delta still insisted on flying 727's on the route even though they lost money by the boatload. When you have to bump all the cargo which most days consisted of Dell computers and other high tech stuff bound for the west coast and beyond and all the pax bags because the plane you chose was to crappy to get airborne in the runway available it is time to junk it and bring in a 757. I mean I have heard of weight restrictions but that is terrible. The amount of money lost just in cargo revenue was rediculous. My brother was just glad he wasn't a ticketing agent who had to tell the people that 25 of them couldn't go and none of their bags were going at all. Lots of fun.

Hell I rode on a Delta 767 a few years ago that had pink and orange seats and a pull down movie screen. It looked like a fugitive from the 70's. Really nice. At least try to get some uniformity in your interior colors, obviously it was a leased aircraft but from whom?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 46):
Hell I rode on a Delta 767 a few years ago that had pink and orange seats and a pull down movie screen. It looked like a fugitive from the 70's. Really nice. At least try to get some uniformity in your interior colors, obviously it was a leased aircraft but from whom?

How many years ago was it? I remember aircraft with RED and orange seats, but not pink and orange. Was it a domestic 767-300 or an International 767-300ER? I don't think there are any more aircraft with the red and orange seats. Some of the domestic 767-300s (and four international ex-domestic 767-300ERs) now have the leather seat covers.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
panamair
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 47):
Was it a domestic 767-300 or an International 767-300ER? I don't think there are any more aircraft with the red and orange seats.

IIRC, the 767-300ERs never had the gaudy seats; they started out with the very conservative-looking red, navy, and grey seats.
 
coa747
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RE: Delta 777 Firm Orders In July

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:19 am

May have been red and orange. The color was not as big a shock as the pull down movie screen. Anyway that was a trip to forget as 20 minutes into a 7 1/2 hour flight the lady sitting next to me spills her whole can of coke all over my jeans. So I got to sit in a puddle of stick soda for 7 1/2 hours. It was great fun all around. Not Delta's fault of course but helped cement the mental image of that plane in my mind.

As for fleet age. I show the 727 wasn't fully disposed of from Delta's fleet until 2003. While the L1011's didn't leave until 2001. Delta still has 25 737-200's and 120 MD-80's which are getting a bit long in the tooth much like American's MD-80's.

Boeing 737 (27) Average Age 20.8 years
Boeing 737NG (71) Average Age 5.6 years
Boeing 757 (77) Average Age 16.7 years
Boeing 767 (109) Average Age 11.1 years
Boeing 777 (8) Average Age 6.5 years
McDonnell Douglas MD-80/90 (134) Average Age 15.4 years
Average fleet age for Delta=13.1 years

Boeing 737 (110) Average Age 14.3 years
Boeing 737NG (144) Average Age 5.8 years
Boeing 757 (58) Average Age 7.7 years
Boeing 767 (26) Average Age 4.9 years
Boeing 777 (18) Average Age 6.8 years
Average fleet age for Continental=8.7 years

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