texdravid
Posts: 1397
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:36 pm

I just recently returned from a long but not necessarily satisfying vacation, and one of my first recollections of this journey is the decreased attention to detail and decreased standards at Lufthansa and their main gateway at Frankfurt.

My flight from IAH to FRA was a pathetic exercise is bait-and switch advertising techniques. LH promises new generation business seats and Wi-Fi on all North America-FRA flights. Upon entrance to the flight in Houston, my wife and I encountered a decades-Plus A340-300 with no Wi-Fi, an old smelly cabin resembling AI, and simple things like armrest trays not stowing properly.

Furthermore, the service was mediocre and completely unfriendly. I have no problem with Teutonic silence and efficiency, but when the efficiency goes, then you are left with nothing more than plain coldness.

Finally, the FRA worldport is old, decaying and is nowhere near user-friendly.
Simple things like clocks to show time are absent. Staff that is unfriendly and unhelpful. A Business class lounge with bathrooms more suited to MAA!! Pathetic.

Thus, I believe LH is getting by on reputation alone, and the fact that they lack meaningful competition on many routes, such as to/from India, and some second-tier U.S. cities like IAH, DFW, PDX. That is one of the reasons I desperately want AI to improve, so that they can challenge LH on their home turf, and bypass the FRA port when possible.

What do you think? Am I off base with LH and FRA, or were my observations correct?
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:05 pm

LH has learnt several lessions and not followed the trend of other major european airlines in terms of short haul service. The improvements made on A320 aircraft with new seats and new standards of inflight service i think are a step in the right direction, however, in the past LH has been an extremely convienent choice for many people. They simply got you more places, more often and were good value for money, particuarly for economy. Therefore, their rather basic economy product was often forgiven.... things are changing and I think, particularly given the whats happened over at KLM/AF.... they need to increase their standards in long haul economy to complete the picture.

I don't think LH has to worry to much about loosing to AI. I think Emirates is of far bigger concern, and the fact South East Asian carriers like SQ, MH and Thai are going to be fighting back hard to regain lost business from the ever expanding EK. Its going to mean that Economy at LH is going to need to be better, and that FRA is probably going to need to be a little more an impressive transfer hub. FRA is the best located hub in europe, all around. Easy access everywhere from Scotland to Greece, western and eastern europe etc. In the past, being extremely efficient and on-time has got them the business... today's environment is different. We have those who'll put up with anything for cheap, and those who are demanding higher standards and not a lot in between... given the cost of doing business in Germany, i'd say LH really has to focus on the latter group.

Give them time. Germans usually wake up when it comes to business. Look at the likes of BMW and Mercedes-Benz.... for years they sold 3 series and C-class cars that were basically just wheels and seats (i mean not even a CD player standard in a luxury car just 10 years ago?)... a little bit of competition from the likes of Lexus and its amazing what's on offer and popular today...and thriving.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Upon entrance to the flight in Houston, my wife and I encountered a decades-Plus A340-300 with no Wi-Fi, an old smelly cabin resembling AI, and simple things like armrest trays not stowing properly.

A switch in equippment can happen with any airline and any airport at any time. And what is wrong with an 10-13 year old airplane? At NW the AVERAGE age is close to 20 years now ...

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
I have no problem with Teutonic silence and efficiency, but when the efficiency goes, then you are left with nothing more than plain coldness.

I hope you didn't approach the people there with same arrogance than can be read between your lines here. If so, I don't wonder about their behavior. You get out, what you put in ...

BTW: Teuton were a central-european tribe some 2000 years ago that were in no way attributed with "silence". Maybe you read this as a catch-up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutons

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Finally, the FRA worldport is old, decaying and is nowhere near user-friendly. Simple things like clocks to show time are absent.

I guess LH already thinks about the new Terminal 3 and is not willing to invest much into the 35-year-old T1. T2 is pretty nice though ...
 
Andie007
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:25 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 1):

Finally, the FRA worldport is old, decaying and is nowhere near user-friendly.
Simple things like clocks to show time are absent. Staff that is unfriendly and unhelpful. A Business class lounge with bathrooms more suited to MAA!! Pathetic.


Something to resolve this problem is already in process:
http://www.chm.de/en/competitions_content.html

http://www.fraport.com/cms/capacity_...2/2834.new_terminal_3_and_a380.htm
 
texdravid
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:30 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 2):
I hope you didn't approach the people there with same arrogance than can be read between your lines here. If so, I don't wonder about their behavior. You get out, what you put in ...

You're way off base. The only arrogance was on Lufthansa's, not mine. I later traveled on Jet Airways, India and Singapore Airlines. They all had very professional and friendly staff, something LH needs to re-learn.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
cornish
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:37 pm

OK I've done a lot of flying LH business class lately - mainly between UK and India, so feel i can comment on your views here.

In terms of the business cabin on long haul, I've flown the new product and its perfectly acceptable - nothing near as good as the best from the Far eAst, but very good in a European or North american context.

However, my last trip out to India put me on a 747-400 from FRA with the old business cabin. and yes I thought it was very shoddy, very uncomfortable and the whole aircraft felt very old an tired.

Had I not had the regular experience of the new business product (i've only sampled it on A340-300s) I would have been very disappointed with it - and incidentally, my flight back via MUC was with the new cabin on a 340.

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Finally, the FRA worldport is old, decaying and is nowhere near user-friendly.

 checkmark  This I agree with wholeheartedly, and it really is a mess in places at the moment - however there is a lot of building going on, but then it really does need it.

I will say that MUC by contrast is the complete opposite, very user-friendly, very easy to get around, quick transfers etc.

If I'm on LH then where possible I will choose to transfer through MUC rather than FRA every time.

Short haul - I've been on some A320s with very tired looking cabins, but have also sampled the new cabin that is bing introduced. A big improvement i must say. I will say that the problem with having light grey leather seats is that they do give the appearance of being very dirty, that a darker colour would avoid.

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Furthermore, the service was mediocre and completely unfriendly. I have no problem with Teutonic silence and efficiency, but when the efficiency goes, then you are left with nothing more than plain coldness.

Actually this is one area where my experience has been very different. I know LH has a reputation for unfriendliness on board, but I have to say I've always found the opposite. All my recent trips to India have seen friendly cabin staff with a good sense of humour and very helpful. And I've found this in the past.
Yes I can speak some German which might help, but my non-German speaking colleagues have found the same on our flights.

But I can see why there can be very different views on LH at the moment. Fly to India (for example) via MUC in the new business cabin and it will be a much better experience than flying via FRA in the old business class - which will certainly want you to seek alternatives where possible.

One definite plus point for LH however, is that their FF programme is very generous to foreigners - certainly much better for me than a BA one.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Johnny
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:44 pm

@Texdravid

I do not think LH alone is responsible for FRA.Probably one important detail about FRA for you:That airport has the smallest dimensions of all Mega-Hubs worldwide.They simply cannot re-buld the Terminals like they want.Germany is not Texas, where you can buld a Terminal with 2 or 3 parallel satelites and 5 parallel runways...It is crowdy here...  Wink

Probably next time you should try to fly via MUC, which in my personal view is the best airport in europe in one line with CPH !

LH normally is a friendly and very professional airline - try Delta next time.I wonder if you will see newer airplanes and better and more friendly service.
There is a phrase in german, which says: What i shout in the forest, that comes back...Probably you should think about it...  Wink

The lack of competion you are mentioning is wrong - LH has strong competiton on all longhaul markets with BA,AF,EK and some US carriers.
 
cornish
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 6):
Probably next time you should try to fly via MUC, which in my personal view is the best airport in europe in one line with CPH !

Absolutely - CPH is my personal favourite, followed by MUC and AMS when it comes to usability and appearance.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
travelin man
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:01 am

Having flown on LH and traveled through FRA for the first time in April, I definitely concur with your comments regarding FRA. It is a horrible airport to connect in, confusing, and you have to walk basically forever. Next time I fly LH, I will try MUC as I hear that airport is much easier to connect in. If FRA was just a destination airport, however, it would be OK. The faciliities themselves were not horrible in my opinion. As laid out for connections, however, FRA leaves a lot to be desired.

As for LH, I thought it was a very good airline. I guess it helps that I flew from LAX and we had a 744 with the new Biz Class seats and the wi-fi service. The flight attendants were friendly, not cold as some had led me to believe they might be.

Overall I would definitely fly LH again, just not through FRA.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:06 am

I've had good experiences with Lufthansa. I think they offer a good product on their newly configured planes, but I wouldn't pay the money to fly in the old business class. It just isn't very good at all and subpar pretty much every other Star Alliance carrier including their main US partner of United. The new seats are pretty good. They are comfortable and lie flat and have good IFE. I do understand that it has been a major problem reconfiguring the seat. It amazes me how long it has taken.

I think the service is ok on Lufthansa. The flight attendants seem to be a bit overworked in business class so the service is slow and not that friendly. However I've never had a problem with them. They tend to do a good job and I'm glad that all of the flight attendants that I have encountered speak English very well.

I think FRA is ok. It is clean and there are some nice lounges. It can get a little crowded and it is a bit disorganized and confusing, especially after a redeye flight. While it is not the best airport, it is a lot nicer than many others including much of IAH and DFW. The only problem I have with it is that people smoke.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Qazar
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:54 am

I sympathize with you for your experience. In my opinion, the most frustrating thing is that you can't really predict a level of service anymore - from any airline.

All airlines who've enjoyed high service reputations find themselves lacking in expectations from the passenger's point of view at one point or another. It really depends on the crew more than the airline.

Lufthansa is generally a good airline, and their new business product is highly marked in comparison to other airlines from around the world (even Southeast Asian ones). You're therefore more likely to have an enjoyable trip on LH - so it's safe to assume that you're experience is an exception more than the rule. However, I must say that both my best trip ever and my worst trip ever were both on LH - so they pretty much seem to be successful at both ends of the bar. Leave it to the Germans to always get it right !!!

I've also had on them my fair share of nice friendly crew, just as I've landed on a couple of b*** that made you want to run them over with their stupid cart!!! And I don't care about how hard their job is - it's still their job: you smile, you show courtesy, respect, service... Anything less is unacceptable to me!

Again the most frustrating thing is the lack of predictability. I'm sure if you were flying an airline where your expectation would have initially been less (like DL or AI) you wouldn't have felt this level of frustration. But since you had high esteem for LH, it left you with too large a gap...

As for FRA, I agree that there is nicer out there but have you flown recently through LHR, JFK, LAX, BOS,... There is also way worse. I especially like the "A" pier used by LH, and if MUC can be used as any indication I can honestly say that I can't wait to see what T3 will end up like. I'm sure it will give SIN, KUL, KIX, and others a good run for their money!!!

In conclusion, both LH and FRA seem to have embarked on a renewal phase. Given their size, it will take a while before the changes are fully implemented - which leaves us with less an ability to predict what to expect. In the end though, I am very excited to see what the end product will be like. With their new cabins, new aircraft (A380), and rumors for PTVs eventually in economy (I'm not starting another rumor here, so take it easy on me), LH will be flying high in a few years. I may not fully trust the level of their service, but I tip my hat to their management. I also have no doubt that FRA will be regarded as the best airport in Europe around the same time.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:06 am

My experience with LH old Biz seats on EWR-FRA (747-400) 10 days ago (first ever long haul in anything but economy, and first time to FRA) was that I found the seats to be acceptable but hard to adjust...service was good by my own meager standards, though I found it to be very impersonal. and a little bit awkward at times...

As for FRA...I agree that its definitely not the best airport to connect in...didn't get to test the connection aspect of it when I arrived as I had a 5 hour layover and thus used that time to go into Frankfurt itself, but when I go back to the US in a few days I have about a 75 minute connection there which will be a good test for this...

Greg
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HT
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 11):
but when I go back to the US in a few days I have about a 75 minute connection there which will be a good test for this...

Expect no problems !
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 2):
A switch in equippment can happen with any airline and any airport at any time. And what is wrong with an 10-13 year old airplane? At NW the AVERAGE age is close to 20 years now ...

So NW is the standard that LH measures itself against now?

It would make a great commercial:

Fly Lufthansa--we're slightly better than Northwest.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 6):
try Delta next time.I wonder if you will see newer airplanes and better and more friendly service.

Fly Lufthansa--we're not as bad as Delta.

[Edited 2006-06-30 23:28:05]
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
parisien
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:04 am

Well, since I am an economy class flyer now I avoid flying LH on long long haul...I think their 744s used to have more room in Y, no more. It is standard and cramped. So now I choose other airlines that offer the same amount of space but with more modern IFE on their planes.
For intra european flights I still like LH as much as the others (AF, AZ) though the ground staff tend to vary a lot. and yes Munich I find is a much better and friendlier airport. But the best is their partner Air Dolomiti !!!!!!
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 13):
So NW is the standard that LH measures itself against now?

It would make a great commercial:

Fly Lufthansa--we're slightly better than Northwest.

Based on what I've read, the NW A330 international product sounds better than LH.


to the original poster...

I would suggest trying NW/KLM on your next flight. The A330's are great in coach, and have an excellent business class product. Also, AMS is much nicer than FRA from what I have read.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 15):
Based on what I've read, the NW A330 international product sounds better than LH.

Right--but what if you get stuck on one of those DC-10s?
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 16):
Right--but what if you get stuck on one of those DC-10s?

They are going to be gone totally by January, and are being phased out. The DC-10 hasn't even been used in DTW for almost a year now. It is really easy now to find flights on the A330. Just don't book a flight on a DC-10 and you won't be "stuck" on one  Smile
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
shane
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:30 am

Aside from the lack of PTVs and the terribly tight quarters in coach resulting in knees around the ears (I'm 6'2"), I've always thought LH was the best way to Europa. I've done the SFO-MUC route several times in both business & coach, most recently on a shiny new A346 (I love the downstairs WC area). The flight attendants always look good and are efficient and friendly enough... It's the United flight attendants who are the snotty ones!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:36 am

NW's A330's have 31-33' pitch, where as LH's A346 have only 31' pitch..ouch!  duck 

that being said, I haven't flown on either in the past 20 years, so what bloody 'ell am I doing on this thread?  confused  confused 
"Up the Irons!"
 
FURUREFA
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:45 am

I don't think it's the age of the a/c that matters, it's the age of the cabin. If the DC10 interiors looked like those of the A330s, nobody would be avoiding them...

Matt
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 20):
I don't think it's the age of the a/c that matters, it's the age of the cabin. If the DC10 interiors looked like those of the A330s, nobody would be avoiding them...

Matt

This is very true. NW passengers really like the DC-9, despite its age... and not coincidentally the cabins were refurbished a few years ago.

And I don't think the DC-10's that NW has are particularly bad.. its just that the A330's are very nice.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
ORDagent
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:00 pm

I have gone to and through FRA many times. I have family about an hour out of FRA so many of my summers started and ended there. The terminal is actually BETTER than when it opened. It was like a bunker with no windows to speak of. The food, duty free and general amenities have gotten better over the years but it always appears to be in a state of reconstruction. FRAPORT employees are a mixed bunch just like any other ground staff. When I went to Rome a couple of years ago my connection was only 45 minutes. My heart sank when our full up 321 parked at a remote stand. However there were two sets of stairs and two busses waiting for us. I was in terminal in less than 10 minutes. Unfortunate the line for the post 911 security to N. America was a mess! However a LH staffer came to the line and pulled us ORD and couple other flights pax and led us to another security check point a floor up and we made the flight with time to spare. I have flown in Business and Coach on LH. Sometimes I had more personable staff in back! However never was anybody rude or in the least bit sloppy in the service. The food is decent to exceptional on most flights overall LH has more class than the majority of U.S. airlines.
 
GBan
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 13):
It would make a great commercial:

Fly Lufthansa--we're slightly better than Northwest.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 6):
try Delta next time.I wonder if you will see newer airplanes and better and more friendly service.

Fly Lufthansa--we're not as bad as Delta.

LOL

Quoting Johnny (Reply 6):
There is a phrase in german, which says: What i shout in the forest, that comes back...Probably you should think about it...

I don't think cabin crews get the salary to behave like a forest.

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Finally, the FRA worldport is old, decaying and is nowhere near user-friendly.
Simple things like clocks to show time are absent. Staff that is unfriendly and unhelpful. A Business class lounge with bathrooms more suited to MAA!! Pathetic.

If you have the possibility, look at MUC. It's a different world. Interesting thing is that Lufthansa owns 50% of the new Terminal 2 at MUC airport. This is the first time that Lufthansa has invested into a Terminal.
 
darrenthe747
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:30 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 2):
I hope you didn't approach the people there with same arrogance than can be read between your lines here. If so, I don't wonder about their behavior. You get out, what you put in ...

I didn't read anything about him being arrogant. It is possible to get bad service without being an asshole to the FA's. You shouldn't have to bend over backwards to get good service, they should be providing good service to their customers or get out of the service industry.
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
nethkt
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:11 pm

It's nearly impossible for Lufthansa to collaspe.

They are flying to everywhere in the world on the own planes (not those code-sharing flights). People will buy thier tickets. Their flights are almost always 100 percent full.

And look at their Economy class service! It's has been like that for over 20 years. No improvement and yet...no huge cost for them!!
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
dw9115
Posts: 382
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:27 pm

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
second-tier U.S. cities like IAH, DFW, PDX

I would hardly call Houston or Dallas second-tier cities Portland you might be able to get away with.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:55 pm

@texdravid - you can always have a bad crew on a flight, happened to me on many airlines and on LH as well. Upgrading aircraft to new business class seating is a major job and takes time, for a company that operates some 80 kong haul jets this is not done in half a year.

Same thing with the upgrading of Terminal 1 in Frankfurt, which is almost complete except for the C pier. It surprises me that you find T1 in FRA sub standard. I mean, how would you call the international terminal at IAH then? As a business class traveller you can hide in the lounge, flying economy you have absolutely nothing to go to except an shabby restaurant with unedible food and one or tow shops with nothing really interesting to offer.

Compare that to the vast number of shops and restaurants here. FRA may not be the best airport in the World, But is is definately better than IAH, where I has difficulties finding the exit to the rental car pick up in the domestic CO terminal recently. Bad directions.
powered by Eierlikör
 
dutchjet
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:12 pm

You were disappointed with the J class product and I think that influenced your opinion of LH in general.

The old J class on LH is behind the times.....and the conversion to the new product, for whatever reasons, is taking far too long. I think this is a major issue, as pax dont know what to expect when on board. And, after flying with the new J class product, the old setup is one giant step backwards. LH is a good airline and should know better....and upsetting your premium customers is not a good thing to do.

As for service, I have no problem with LH, their ground and flight staff generally are very professional and know exactly what they are doing - I appreciate that. I actually prefer the "business like" approach of LH employees to the "friendly/chatty" approach to some US carriers and the almost "servant-like" style of some Asian carriers. Its all personal choice and I think that we can all agree that a lot depends upon the particular crew for a specific flight.

As for FRA, the airport is a mess and continues to be a mess......but that is becoming more and more true of large hub airports worldwide. LHR is no picnic, CDG is not the most connection friendly airport in the world, large hub airports in the US are simply overwhelming, etc......AMS stands out as a good connection airport.
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:45 am

Seems like when you fly LH you can either get the worst or the best they have to offer. Last summer I flew an ATL-FRA-KWI routing, and the ATL-FRA segment was one of the worst experiences I have ever experienced in all my years of travel. Surly, rude flight attendants who were more concerned about curling up on one of the crew rest seats than actually serving their passengers!!

The next segment FRA-KWI was quite possibly the best experience I have ever had in economy. A very young cabin crew, who had smiles permanently etched on their faces and were continuously walking the aisles before and after the dinner service ensuring the passengers needs were taken care of. It made the 5+ hour flight go by in no time at all. In fact I actually took the time to send an e-mail to Lufthansa commending them for the wonderful service of the entire crew.

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Finally, the FRA worldport is old, decaying and is nowhere near user-friendly.
Simple things like clocks to show time are absent. Staff that is unfriendly and unhelpful. A Business class lounge with bathrooms more suited to MAA!! Pathetic.

I will agree with you on FRA having a worn look, especially T1. However, in both FRA and LH's defense there is not much to work with there, with the terminal now over 30 years old and while they have done their best at making the interior respectable it is the operational aspect that is the bigger mess. I don't know of an airport in the world that runs as large an operation from such a small footprint as the one at FRA T1. When T3 is completed and all non-Star carriers move to the southside of FRA, this will enable *A to expand into T2, giving some much needed breathing room to T1..
 
LHUSA
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
LH promises new generation business seats and Wi-Fi on all North America-FRA flights.

How exactly were your promised the new seat and FlyNet? IAH isn't even a market that the new seat is consistently offered, so I'm not quite sure how it could be 'promised.' Even those flights that do have the new C seats every day are subject to last-minute subs, so never ever does LH promise that a flight will have the new seats or FlyNet. Lists are provided to inform customers on which routes the seats are available, but those always indicate the chance of a sub. It's unfortunate that it can't be gauranteed, but it's a reality. The conversions are taking way too long because of software problems and fleet constraints. The old seats leave a lot to be desired, but the new seats are a HUGE improvment. Never want to get off the plane when I'm in them.

From LH's website:
"Note: Above information subject to change without notice. Due to scheduling and logistical reasons it may be necessary to implement an aircraft which has not been reconfigured with new Business Class seats. Our entire long-haul fleet should be complete by Spring 2007. "
 
sk601
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 13):
Fly Lufthansa--we're slightly better than Northwest.



Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 13):
Fly Lufthansa--we're not as bad as Delta.

In The Netherlands LH currently has a radio commercial saying "there's no better way to fly" which sounds a lot like SQ's "a great way to fly".
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:43 am

LH never promised new C or Flynet on all N/A routes. In fact, very few of the 744s have new seats.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
Cure
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 2):
I guess LH already thinks about the new Terminal 3 and is not willing to invest much into the 35-year-old T1. T2 is pretty nice though ...

C'mon, if you've seen other airports you have to admit that FRA is a really UGLY airport, a mess when you just take a look at it and when you're trying to find out where to go (with maybe an exception: LH's connections).
I'm Italian (this meaning: used to find out a way through things  Wink ), but no way: once, there, after a 2 hrs delay officially due to their problems (traffic), I lost my connex and spent 2 more hours: I've been told to change four different lines without anything improving, with a very fake professional style, behind which you could evidently spot their complete ignorance on the matter they were pretending to solve. Moving belts, closing and re-opening check-in desks after people complaining...
Ridiculous.
It can happen everywhere, sure, but LH declares its efficiency everywhere, ad somewhere there isn't. That's all.

Regards,

V
 
Cure
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 2):
Teuton were a central-european tribe some 2000 years ago

When we're talking about german Effizienz, here in Italy we're also used to use this word "teutonic", which for everybody clearly represents what it's supposed to.

V
 
Cure
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting Qazar (Reply 10):
the most frustrating thing is that you can't really predict a level of service anymore - from any airline.

Right!
That's what I think too....: at least not in Y.

V
 
BOAC911
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:30 pm

Terminal 3 on the southside of FRA, when completed, is slated to become the *A terminal. Non star alliance airlines will remain in Terminals 1 and 2. However construction has not yet started and I don"t know when it will.
 
Setjet
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:19 am

Well, the time of Senator Service with beef and beer are over,

Big version: Width: 560 Height: 360 File size: 18kb
Beef and Beer


don't blame Lufthansa for that, blame rather the economy.
I have flown many airlines, Economy, Business and First. Generally speaking, Singapore isn't as good as everybody says, especially in Economy, Lufthansa is better then most people think (most of all with their new Business Class and with their Privatair Service to EWR), British Airways is not bad (especially First Class), Delta/American/United are sloppy and not always as friendly as you would think...

The best Business Class I have tested recently was South African with their A340-600 out of Frankfurt. Great stuff!
 
HT
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 36):
Terminal 3 on the southside of FRA, when completed, is slated to become the *A terminal. Non star alliance airlines will remain in Terminals 1 and 2.

What's the source for this ?
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
TheSunseeker
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:49 am

there goes the Lufthansa bashing...
RSA: Dont drink and drive - take the train and get mugged
 
PanHAM
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 36):
Terminal 3 on the southside of FRA, when completed, is slated to become the *A terminal. Non star alliance airlines will remain in Terminals 1 and 2. However construction has not yet started and I don"t know when it will.

Exactly the other way round, LH will take the complete north side with T1 + 2 and T3 will be for all non *A.

Makes a lot more sense since LH+*A account for about 70% of all operations and T3 would be simply too small for that. Next - the flight ops would be severley disrupted if a big chunk of these 70% would have to cross over 2 active runways.
powered by Eierlikör
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:50 am

As I have stated an another posting... I think LH is not all that they make it out to be. The ground staff in DTW, FRA, CPH, are very unprofessional, rude, and down right mean spirited.... As for the inflight crew... The came thru served our meal and then gave us a drink and that was it until you got to the airport..... I asked for a drink of water or pop and they refused to let me have something... I know as a travel agent I will not be booking LH for a long time. I mean when they screw up your PNR in CPH and cancel all your flights back to the USA. they acted like I got on the computer and did myself. It was their fault not mine. But, they proceed to chew me and my group out and then had the balls to throw our tickets and boarding passes to us over the counter. And Yes I did write a letter along with the other 30 people in my group about the service we received. And we did not get anything back from them (LH) apologizing for the bad service. What we did get was a Thank you for flying with us letter.... And for the person that stated "try finding good service on DL" I have this to say. I did and I have and they are better then LH on many levels.

Chuck
 
CRJ900
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:55 pm

www.boarding.no reports that LH flew 25,5 million pax during the first six months of 2006, which is the highest pax number LH has ever flown during the first six months of a year, so they can't be all that bad to fly with... ? Or is it mostly due to the soccer world cup?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
764
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 42):
www.boarding.no reports that LH flew 25,5 million pax during the first six months of 2006, which is the highest pax number LH has ever flown during the first six months of a year, so they can't be all that bad to fly with... ? Or is it mostly due to the soccer world cup?

Well, they have a reputation and that is why people fly with them. Plus, many Germans would rather fly on a German airline than a foreign one (for whatever reason) and other than LTU you have no choice. LTU doen't give you good connections in the US.

If LH weren't in the Star Alliance, I believe they would have way less than half their passengers left. I myself endure LH only because they operate the feeders for my UA and SQ flights. On the long haul I avoid them wherever I can.

FRA itself is a terrible airport. Their moving sidewalks are ridiculously short (about 80 feet each) and interrupted by long walks (much more than 80 feet). In many parts of the termminal they don't exist. All the escalators and sidewalks have metal barriers meant to keep you from taking luggage carts on them. But they are also terrible obstacles for wheeled pilot's cases and the likes. The aiport is full of smoke and the worst of all are the signs they recently put up. Going from A to C is not that terribly far if you know the way. BUT the signs send you the long way around, which is about twice as far!!!
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting 764 (Reply 43):
FRA itself is a terrible airport. Their moving sidewalks are ridiculously short (about 80 feet each) and interrupted by long walks (much more than 80 feet). In many parts of the termminal they don't exist. All the escalators and sidewalks have metal barriers meant to keep you from taking luggage carts on them. But they are also terrible obstacles for wheeled pilot's cases and the likes. The aiport is full of smoke and the worst of all are the signs they recently put up. Going from A to C is not that terribly far if you know the way. BUT the signs send you the long way around, which is about twice as far!!!

You need to explain to me another way to get from A to C besides the normal one. There is a shortcut from A to B (which is really hard to find) but from A to C can be a long walk but there is no way to get lost when you are able to read signs.
Regarding the moving sidewalks. I also don't like that it's not possible to use them with cars. But the reason that they are so short is that all gates can be accessed.

All in all FRA might not be a shiny or user friendly as smaller airports like MUC or CPH but compared to the ones with similar pax numbers (LHR, CDG, JFK) it is way above average.
 
boeingguy1
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 8):
I definitely concur with your comments regarding FRA. It is a horrible airport to connect in, confusing, and you have to walk basically forever.

As do I... I traveled through FRA while connecting to FCO... I had to clear (connecting from JFK) immigration/passport control, walk down 4 or 5 flights of stairs, walk through some tunnel (to which you need to be on Acid or LSD to comprehend) walked for another 5-10 minutes and barely made my connection to Roma... not to mention the small leather seats on the 733s are horrendous! (good to hear that they are being changed!!!)
Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
 
airtropolis
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:31 pm

Flew LH about 2 months ago BOS-FRA vv and found it to be quite a good experience despite the fact that they lack some of the amenities that have been debated to death on anet. Crews were professional and friendly and I was particularly impressed that in economy class, they always automatically offer you an extra glass of water during cocktail service if you order tomato juice or alcohol to ensure that you are hydrated - a little touch that shows that there is still a certain level of quality in their service. I must say that this was a much better experience than my last LH flights more than 10 years ago between SYD-SIN, which I found to be rather spartan in terms of service. I have always kind of liked LH though and really like the clean cut modern design of their corporate identity.

I do have to agree with many other posters regarding FRA (while I do like FRA from an aviation enthusiast point of view). It has a very confusing layout, especially with separate arrival areas for the A,B,C terminals. I got lost and got out at the wrong baggage claim area and an LH staff member had to let me in to the correct baggage claim area (so much for security). This airport has certainly outgrown the design intents of its designers in the 1970s.
 
Setjet
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RE: Lufthansa And FRA Are Slipping

Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:31 am

"...and an LH staff member had to let me in to the correct baggage claim area (so much for security)."

In the US of A anybody, and I mean ANYBODY, can go to the baggage claim area. How is THAT for security?

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