PhilSquares
Topic Author
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NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:51 am

Apparently Judge Gropper has allowed NWA to void the FA's contract and impose a contract no worse than the Mar 1 TA. He also left the door opened for a negotiated settlement.

http://www.startribune.com/1778/story/524196.html

www.nwaalpa.org

[Edited 2006-07-01 01:55:52]
Fly fast, live slow
 
Trvlr
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:14 am

Just one? What about the rest of 'em?  Wink

Aaron G.
 
PhilSquares
Topic Author
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:54 am

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 1):
Just one? What about the rest of 'em?

There are no more!
Fly fast, live slow
 
lincoln
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:11 am

I have upcomming travel booked on NW (Mainline, Mesaba, and Pinnacle) in early August... should I be concerned about adverse job actions between this and the Mesaba FAs?

[CLE-DTW mainline, DTW-PLN mesaba, PLN-DTW pinnacle, DTW-CLE mainline...flying is actually going to take longer than driving]

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 3):
I have upcomming travel booked on NW (Mainline, Mesaba, and Pinnacle) in early August... should I be concerned about adverse job actions between this and the Mesaba FAs?

I would not be, this was expected. An agreement will eventually be reached.
 
ANNOYEDFA
Posts: 441
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:34 am

I would be...... The Flight Attendants have a right to strike and I find it simply amazing how a judge can just slam his hammer and void a contract that was voted and signed on years ago. Personally, if I was a NWA crew member I would rather strike see the airline shut down and move on with my life. Nothing is worth letting a miserable !$%#$^&^ like steenland get away with what he has done to this airline since he has taken over.

For those of you who are going to say why not quit and move on then to strike and shut the airline down... It all comes down to principal... Everyone who actually makes the airline what it is, is as usual just left in the gutter. Shameful, I hope they sleep well at night.
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
luv2fly
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:38 am

From usatoday.com

"Northwest, flight attendants have 2 weeks to reach deal
The bankruptcy judge overseeing the cost-cutting impasse between Northwest's management and the airline’s flight attendants has given the sides two weeks to reach a deal. The dispute went back to the judge after the parties failed to reach a deal by today, a timetable both had previously agreed to. Now, U .S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Allan Gropper says the negotiations have dragged on long enough and “tossed out” the attendants' contract, according to the Detroit Free Press. But the paper says Gropper won’t enforce the ruling for another two weeks, giving management and the attendants one last chance to reach a deal. If no deal is reached, the judge will allow Northwest to impose the terms of a tentative contract that 80% of flight attendants have already voted to reject.

“With the new deadline, the prospect of a strike looms. A flight attendants work stoppage might not shut down the airline, but it could dramatically disrupt travel,” the Free Press writes. Union officials representing the attendants say there are no preparations “at this time” for a strike, but say they reserve the right to do so if Northwest imposes new terms. Despite the emergence of yet another strike threat at Northwest, at least one travel expert says it may be premature to start booking away from the carrier –- at least for the summer months. "Would I book a flight for travel on Northwest this summer? Yes, I would," says Terry Trippler, airline expert at Minneapolis-based travel club Vacation Passport."

The judge is still trying to get both sides to reach a deal.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
toltommy
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 5):
The Flight Attendants have a right to strike

You are wrong. The FA's and their union feel that they have a strong legal argument which would support a strike. but if they choose to test the legal argument, it's going to take a court ruling in their favor that would give the "right to strike" as you claim. As of this moment in time, PFAA has NOT secured the legal right for NWA FA's to exercise "self-help" if a contract is imposed.

Lincoln, at least you can drive the trip faster than flying, should the worst case scenario happen. If the FA's strike and your flights are cancelled, you'll be able to get a refund, and drive it. People like me, who fly "non-drivable" distances every week, will be hurting more. I've started booking my travel further out, and switched from NWA (Gold Elite) to US Airways earlier this year, despite DTW being my primary airport. Already flown enough to make Silver on US Airways, will be Gold by August.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 7):
The FA's and their union feel that they have a strong legal argument which would support a strike. but if they choose to test the legal argument, it's going to take a court ruling in their favor that would give the "right to strike" as you claim. As of this moment in time, PFAA has NOT secured the legal right for NWA FA's to exercise "self-help" if a contract is imposed.

I don't think that's quite true. Under the RLA, once the company imposes a new contract, the other side is free to seek self help. The legal question is about the ability to do this under bankruptcy protection. What would have to happen is NWA would have to get an TRO to get the flight attendants back to work.
Fly fast, live slow
 
ejmmsu
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:49 pm

Every time each of the labor groups came down to the wire, everyone on these boards predicted gloom and doom... with the same questions and statments...

"should I book nw"
"i already have a NW ticket... am I in trouble"
"Its a shame NW is going to go the way of eastern.."

So far, no one has struck, and NW is still flying jets around the country.

Based on what has happend in the past, NW and the FA's will come to an agreement. NW management is not particularly nice or popular, but they aren't stupid.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 9):
Every time each of the labor groups came down to the wire, everyone on these boards predicted gloom and doom... with the same questions and statments...

"should I book nw"
"i already have a NW ticket... am I in trouble"
"Its a shame NW is going to go the way of eastern.."

So far, no one has struck, and NW is still flying jets around the country.

Have you forgotten that NW mechanics came down to the wire...and struck. Of course, the outcome was far better for NW but a F/A stike could be worse than the mechanics. That being said, I firmly believe that a settlement will be reached.
 
ckfred
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:06 pm

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 5):
The Flight Attendants have a right to strike and I find it simply amazing how a judge can just slam his hammer and void a contract that was voted and signed on years ago.

The bankruptcy code has provisions that allows a business to void collective bargaining agreements. It's been done in the steel industry, and Delphi is trying to void its contracts with the UAW.

No one knows if a bargaining unit with an air carrier has a right to strike after the imposition of a new contract by a bankruptcy judge, pursuant to a motion of management.

The RLA has no language to cover this situation, and no court has had to review this situation. If NW's F/As do not reach an agreement within the next two weeks, we may find out what the bankruptcy judge thinks, if the F/As do walk.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:14 pm

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 10):
Have you forgotten that NW mechanics came down to the wire...and struck. Of course, the outcome was far better for NW but a F/A stike could be worse than the mechanics. That being said, I firmly believe that a settlement will be reached.

NW managment knew they could replace the mechanics, and had the mechanics waiting in the wings. NW management knows they can't do the same with a FA strike. Again, they aren't stupid.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 9):
So far, no one has struck, and NW is still flying jets around the country

Albeit without IFE, Meals, Blankets, Pillows, and less frequency?

Exit Row anyone?.. That will be $25.00
Want to sit in the jumpseat... That will be $$$
Want to flush the toilet?... That will be $$$
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
lincoln
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Albeit without IFE, Meals, Blankets, Pillows, and less frequency?

Exit Row anyone?.. That will be $25.00
Want to sit in the jumpseat... That will be $$$
Want to flush the toilet?... That will be $$$

In NW's 'defense', they've been flying without IFE and meals (and I really want to say pillows and blankets -- I can't remember ever seeing one) for years now -- even before the events of 9/11.

Exit rows for Elites are still free.

I'd gladly pay money for a jumpseat ride.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
ejmmsu
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Albeit without IFE, Meals, Blankets, Pillows, and less frequency?

NW has blankets on all flights. NW also provides pillows on their long flights. (for instance each seat had a pillow when I flew an LAX-DTW red-eye about a month ago)

NW has never had IFE, and it has been hashed and re-hashed over and over again. They passengers that fill up their planes every day don't seem to mind.

Right now, CO is the only airline that still serves free meals in coach. This is certainly a deficiency for any legacy other than CO, but since CO is the only airline serving meals, its pretty much the industry standard to not serve free meals in coach.

NW cut capacity by about 10%. There are still plenty of flights to plenty of places.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Exit Row anyone?.. That will be $25.00
Want to sit in the jumpseat... That will be $$$
Want to flush the toilet?... That will be $$$

The coach choice program is $15, not $25. Compare this to UA's economy plus, where the kiosk offered me an "upgrade" to E+ for $75. All coach choice seats are free for elites, and will be released free to non-elites if they are the only seats left on the plane at the time of seat-assignment.

I am not familiar with any cost program for the jumpseat... I tend to think the vast majority of travelers don't even know what the jumpseat is. I won't even commment on your last assertion.


The latest statistics showed NW in the top three in on-time performance and in the top three in lowest customer complaints. NW also has one of the highest load factors in the industry, and made an operating profit in april despite not having all labor deals in lace. When NW gets all their labor deals in place and can start rolling in the E-Jets, they will be a ferocious competitor.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:46 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 14):
In NW's 'defense', they've been flying without IFE and meals (and I really want to say pillows and blankets -- I can't remember ever seeing one) for years now -- even before the events of 9/11.

Exit rows for Elites are still free.

So what is the advantage to flying NWA over CO, UA, AA, or DL?
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
So what is the advantage to flying NWA over CO, UA, AA, or DL?

You will have to ask the millions who do fly with them to the extent that NWA month after month has the highest load factors in the industry. It appears that your opinions of NWA are not shared by them!
 
lincoln
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
So what is the advantage to flying NWA over CO, UA, AA, or DL?

I'm sure there are reasons, but my only reason for flying NW is they're the only airline who can get me from CLE to PLN. (or DTW to PLN, or anywhere -> PLN)

IFE - Ehh, it's a nice bonus on CO, not really critical
Food - One of the primary reasons I fly CO (no, I'm not deranged enough to think that I would get food on any airline for a 94 mile flight)
Flight Attendants who don't seem perpetually pissed off (even before the recent contract issues) - Very key reason I fly CO.

I haven't flown NW mainline in close to 3 years...maybe things have changed, though.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:53 am

I can tell you, that as a travel agent that my agency is not booking to many on NWA unless the client ask for them....If they strike the paper work for refunding (if able) is a nigh mare. But, hey only you can make that decision. I personaly would stay away from NWA until everything has calmed down.
 
dutchjet
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 15):
The latest statistics showed NW ..... in the top three in lowest customer complaints.

Thats because NW charges $25.00 to make a complaint under its new "Complaint Choice" program.....Elite FFs can complain for free.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
So what is the advantage to flying NWA over CO, UA, AA, or DL?

Being that NW does not have IFE......it give you an opportunity to get some reading done. And since NW does not serve food on board, its a good way to lose a few pounds.


[I am teasing!!]
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 17):
You will have to ask the millions who do fly with them to the extent that NWA month after month has the highest load factors in the industry. It appears that your opinions of NWA are not shared by them!

Correction my fellings are shared by the millions of people who live in New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston, et el. Where Northwest Airlines has very little roles in the aviation of those cities that are and will always be host to other larger, much more Customer Service oriented airlines such as CO, AA, and UA!

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 19):
I can tell you, that as a travel agent that my agency is not booking to many on NWA unless the client ask for them....If they strike the paper work for refunding (if able) is a nigh mare. But, hey only you can make that decision. I personaly would stay away from NWA until everything has calmed down.

There are scores of Tour Operators that are reverting from Northwest Airlines to United and Continental. Not to mention reverting from Northwest to JAL, and ANA for Intra-Asian operations. The contracts the Northwest signed 5, to3, to 1 year ago are coming up for renewal and the largest companies are not happy at all. Northwest Airlines has a stigma, and rightly so, as being an airline to stay away from due to scores of reasons.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 21):
Correction my fellings are shared by the millions of people who live in New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston, et el

Again, I will ask, why does Northwest have the highest load factors in the industry month after month. Can you address that question before you change the subject again. Please check with your friends Heathrow and Kahala to get their input.
 
gregarious119
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 21):
Northwest Airlines has a stigma, and rightly so, as being an airline to stay away from due to scores of reasons.

Why? They get you from point A to point B for usually a great price (as good as WN on some routes). DTW terminal is great.

I don't think a "stigma" has anything to do with until they start screwing up what they do - get people from Point A to Point B.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
Again, I will ask, why does Northwest have the highest load factors in the industry month after month.

Cheap Fares - Cheap Consolidated Fares - Empty Seats that WorldPerks members are filling!

High Load Factors do not equal to High Revenue, how many times does this need to be said again and again fro people to understand?

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
Can you address that question before you change the subject again.

The subject was never changed, you have skewed the subject as always, in a cheap attempt to bash myself. So in turn, can you please address the subject?

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
Please check with your friends Heathrow and Kahala to get their input.

The subject please!

The NWA Flight Attendants mellow drama is effecting many, many people. The actions being put forth by NWA and its labour issues, are causing once loyal Tour Operators to think twice, and as can be seen in recent weeks, they are optiing for alternate airlines for the 2007/2008 season. NWA relys heavily on the Tour contracts for its North America to Japan flights.

In addition to its Japan - Asia flights. There is a reason that NWA has dropped capacity on its SFO, and SEA routes - Tour Operators have chosen other airlines! In addition JFK-NRT was dropped not solely to to aircraft utilization, but a large number of tour operators signing with AA/CO for the NYC-Japan service.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 24):
The subject was never changed, you have skewed the subject as always, in a cheap attempt to bash myself. So in turn, can you please address the subject?



Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 24):
High Load Factors do not equal to High Revenue, how many times does this need to be said again and again fro people to understand?

The subject was millions of people avoiding Northwest vs the highest load factors in the industry, which kind of takes the air out of your statement.

As far as high laod factors not equal to high revenue. Did you just discover that thought. Most of the members of this board have known that for quite a while.
We let the air out your cheap consolidator fares idea in another thread when many markets were pointed out that NWA was not close to being the lowest!
Should I list the cities again? As many as you point out where NWA is the lowest, I will point out two where they are not. Its called marketing.

Are Heathrow and Kahala thoughts on this the same?
 
centrair
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:03 am

Steenland is more fixed on the Domestic problems he forgot that NW is an International Carrier. It is not competing with CO or UA for Asia. Its not competing with any Asian Carrier either. He is hell bent on turning it into an LCC when he should be living up to the legacy of the airline.

NW used to have imperial class and WBC. They cut Imperial. Now all you have is WBC. If you are a CEO wanting to fly between the US and Japan, which would you fly NH (Skysuite) or NW (WBC shell thingy) to get First class treatment? If I were Steenland I woul be trying to figure out not how to get $25 bucks out of a person flying from DTW-FLL for a little partying, but hot to get $3500+ out of the pocket of a CEO flying trans-pac to make a deal with Billions.

The FA issue is a big one and the management know that if they don't resolve things, the airline is dead. The one clause about foreign nationals is a hang up. Now I don't know what it says but I doubt it says that foreign nationals will be doing DTW-BOS or some other domestic route as that would be too much legal work (See current illegal immigrant issue and laws). But I do see more foreign nationals taking over the intra-asia flights and NO US based F/A on those flights. Another issue is as NW plans to use its 787s to overfly NRT (a rarity in NW History), they will need to increase the number of Foreign Nationals that can fly between the US and Asian Destinations. This not only helps with wage issues but also with getting local traffic. JL picks up more local traffic than NW because the Japanese identify with JL and prefer "Japanese treatment" with the language barrier not there.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 24):
There is a reason that NWA has dropped capacity on its SFO, and SEA routes

NW just made SEA-NRT Daily up from 5 a week. The route is very popular not just with tourists but with corporates as well. NW has one of the best products in Y and C on that route. They are carrying Boeing and tech related folks to/from Tokyo and also to Nagoya for all the 787 and 777 related projects related. NH is getting some of this traffic as well (with UA). Both airlines are launch customers for the 787.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 24):
The actions being put forth by NWA and its labour issues, are causing once loyal Tour Operators to think twice, and as can be seen in recent weeks, they are optiing for alternate airlines for the 2007/2008 season. NWA relys heavily on the Tour contracts for its North America to Japan flights.

Who? JTB? Kintetsu? Nittsu? If NWA's actions lower the price even more, JTB will be happy. But then again they are a huge rip off to the Japanese people, usually charging 25% and higher handling fees (wife hated working for them as she felt she was constantly ripping people off). I would think it has more to do with NW's lack of investment in improving their Asian/trans-pac product. People expect inflight service, NW offeres service straight out of 1980 on most of their 744 trans-pac routes. Only the A330s are worth it. Even that is not a good enough reason.

But then again...Why didn't the tour groups give UA the finger when they were stiffing their employees? JTB didn't pull contracts or theraten JL when they were going through their management and safety crisis, did they?

JTB works for JTB they don't care if its NW or Kampuchean. If it is cheap and gives them a nice profit margin (over charging ignorant travelers), then that is what JTB will do.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
luv2fly
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 25):
Are Heathrow and Kahala thoughts on this the same?

I imagne they are since they are one and the same! Add to the mix kl777jfk as well.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
User avatar
jetjack74
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 24):
In addition to its Japan - Asia flights. There is a reason that NWA has dropped capacity on its SFO, and SEA routes -

Hrmm, check your facts MalpensaSFO. We haven't dropped capacity out SEA, or SFO. We actually "increased" capacity form the the West coast with the additon of the PDX-NRT which was designed to open new service from PDX where a sizable portion of the SFO/SEA-NRT traffic originated

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 24):
In addition JFK-NRT was dropped not solely to to aircraft utilization, but a large number of tour operators signing with AA/CO for the NYC-Japan service.

We dropped the JFK-NRT because the business fares weren't selling as well as we'd hoped. We were full everyday out JFK to NRT, but 90% was leisure traffic which is a dog on revenue. The JFK-NRT was the least profitable Transpac we had.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 26):
NW just made SEA-NRT Daily up from 5 a week

 checkmark Actually more than that. We now have 8 departures a week to NRT from SEA. We run NW85 on saturdays. This is to handle the summer tourist traffic from NRT only. A lot of Ichiro, and Kenji fans come to SEA to spend a week in SEA to see them play. And also, we dropped from daily to 5 times a week only briefly when there was an equipment shortage as the A332's were coming into the fleet. The SEA-NRT is scheduled to remain daily for the forseeable future.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 27):

I imagne they are since they are one and the same! Add to the mix kl777jfk as well.

The Anti-NWA crowd is out in full force
Made from jets!
 
toltommy
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 8):
I don't think that's quite true. Under the RLA, once the company imposes a new contract, the other side is free to seek self help. The legal question is about the ability to do this under bankruptcy protection.

I agree with you that the courts will be involved. It will be precent setting. My opinion is that its not the same as simply imposing a contract, because the new terms have to be approved by the court. The judge has already given NWA guidelines that the new contract should be very similar to the contract the FA's turned down. I hope both sides can work out the issues, but it's going to be intersting to watch.....
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 28):
The Anti-NWA crowd is out in full force

Well this happens to be an army of one that changes its user id like others change underwear.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
slider
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 5):
It all comes down to principal...

And principles, too!  Wink

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 11):
No one knows if a bargaining unit with an air carrier has a right to strike after the imposition of a new contract by a bankruptcy judge, pursuant to a motion of management.

The RLA has no language to cover this situation, and no court has had to review this situation. If NW's F/As do not reach an agreement within the next two weeks, we may find out what the bankruptcy judge thinks, if the F/As do walk.

Good (and oft undermade) point...bankruptcy laws and RLA provisions are in conflict with one another in terms of whether a contract can be either abrogated or unilaterally imposed during bankruptcy. So what one labor group says is a legit strike and company says is an illegal one may both be correct.
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 26):
NW just made SEA-NRT Daily up from 5 a week.

Yes in a small A330-200....

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 28):
We haven't dropped capacity out SEA, or SFO

Yes you have SEA went from a 742 to a DC10 to a 742 to a A330-200..

You seem to have omitted the fact, as is usual, that NWA no longer has the demand to serve SEA-KIX..

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 28):
We dropped the JFK-NRT because the business fares weren't selling as well as we'd hoped.

Because the NWA Business product is nothing more than a joke!
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
Indy
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
Again, I will ask, why does Northwest have the highest load factors in the industry month after month. Can you address that question before you change the subject again. Please check with your friends Heathrow and Kahala to get their input.

I know I can tell you with confidence that they have done very well here at IND. They blew past long time favorite US. Their loads are outstanding here and they are building a very large and loyal customer base.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 28):
The JFK-NRT was the least profitable Transpac we had.

Funny, while NWA took their 80's style 747's and interiors to match back to the swallows of Detroit, AA has been rolling in the cash from the JFK-NRT sector. NWA, simply has not adjusted to the times and is in the shape it is today due to NWA not realizing you have to invest in your aircraft, you have to invest in Customer Service!

Quoting Centrair (Reply 26):
I would think it has more to do with NW's lack of investment in improving their Asian/trans-pac product.

Exactly my point!
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
tpaewr
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 32):
Because the NWA Business product is nothing more than a joke!

The New WBC is one of the best seats and the sevice is ok for business class. Lets take CO Business first B767 to NWA WBC A330. The A330 WBC is a much better seat then CO's B767, But I have to say Business first food service is better.

If you think NWA WBC is a JOKE you need to fly DL Business class.

Oh, this is not Tpaewr this is nwab787techops

[Edited 2006-07-03 22:16:58]
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 32):
Yes in a small A330-200....

Yes, while adding a small A332 on PDX-NRT

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 30):
Well this happens to be an army of one that changes its user id like others change underwear.

All while selling real estate from London, to Las Vegas

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 32):
Yes you have SEA went from a 742 to a DC10 to a 742 to a A330-200..

You seem to have omitted the fact, as is usual, that NWA no longer has the demand to serve SEA-KIX..

The SEA-KIX went years ago during the height of falling demand in WORLDWIDE air travel. Other carriers were far from immune. Also the size of the aircraft matter little when you look at economics. The fact we previously operated a 747, now down to an A332 is irrelevant. The fewer seats on these routes account for better profits when operated with a fuel efficient aircraft which rakes in better profit margins. More money was going out the door with full 747's than the loss of capacity in the market as a whole. Your argument is weak MalpensaSFO.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 32):
Because the NWA Business product is nothing more than a joke!

Much like yourself Lhr001, Kahaha777,KLjfk777

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 34):
Funny, while NWA took their 80's style 747's and interiors to match back to the swallows of Detroit,

And the point of this is?

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 34):
AA has been rolling in the cash from the JFK-NRT sector.

And AA is still losing money just like everyone else. AA just announced it was dropping it's SJC-NRT, from San Jose, an AA stronghold, whereas JFK was hardly a flyspeck for us.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 34):
NWA, simply has not adjusted to the times and is in the shape it is today due to NWA not realizing you have to invest in your aircraft, you have to invest in Customer Service!

NWA has done more reshaping than any other carrier in the US. Obviously you don't follow the news closely. When all is done, NW will have the lowest costs in the industry(unfortunately), and we''l probably smoke AA and most of our competitors when we emerge from bankruptcy.
Made from jets!
 
slider
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 33):
I know I can tell you with confidence that they have done very well here at IND. They blew past long time favorite US. Their loads are outstanding here and they are building a very large and loyal customer base.

NW became the biggest carrier at IND based on enplanements back in 2000 or 2001 I believe, edging out then US and WN. Don't know based on LF.
 
Indy
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 37):
NW became the biggest carrier at IND based on enplanements back in 2000 or 2001 I believe, edging out then US and WN. Don't know based on LF.

NW was briefly #1 in 2000 as they edged out US by just under 30,000 enplaned passengers. US was #1 from 1999 back to 1995 or earlier. WN was #1 in 2001. 2002, 2003 & 2004 was TZ. NW took over control in 2005 when it finished the year with a significant edge over the #2 carrier. Through the first 4 months of this year NW has a significant lead over #2 again. They are running the biggest margins over #2 since US ran its hub here.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
centrair
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:15 am

NW has not only increased service from SEA-NRT and added PDX-NRT, they have also added NRT-NGO-SPN, NRT-CAN, NGO-GUM using 757s. There could be far more of this in the near future. But sadly they will use their 757s like every other US carrier and focus on the gradually crowding US-European Market. They need to take advantage of their 5th freedom out of Japan and build up to more small Asian destinations using ETOPS 757s and A320s that can feed into their trans-pac until the 787s come online. Some destinations are too small for the 787 and having a connecting flight to one that is going where one needs to go can only be good.

This of course would not help the F/A situation as those flights would probably be all Asian crews but could add to the bottom line and help the airline get out of BK. I'm not talking about more tourist destinations but growing China and far underserved but potential markets like Vladivostok and Ulanbataar.
Imagine...NRT-CTS-Vladivostok on a 757.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 39):
NW has not only increased service from SEA-NRT and added PDX-NRT, they have also added NRT-NGO-SPN, NRT-CAN, NGO-GUM using 757s.

Permit me if you will a non-biased question about Northwest Airlines. With the immense audience that NWA has in Japan would any of the following routes be possible with the B757-200ETOPS from Narita?

NRT-Osaka-Hong Kong
NRT-Nagoya-Hong Kong
NRT-Sapporo-Anchorage
NRT-Phuket
NRT-Bali
NRT-Cebu
NRT-Penang
NRT-Maui
NRT-Kona
NRT-Kuala Lumpur (This was scheduled to start a number of years ago)
NRT-Jakarta (This was scheduled to start a number of years ago)

The following A320 routes from Narita?

NRT-Mindanao
NRT-Macau
NRT-Quezon City
NRT-Davos
NRT-Palau
NRT-Hanoi
NRT-Ho Chi Minh
NRT-Danang

Isnt NWA the only U.S. airline with unlimited 5th freedom rights from Japan? If so, are there any planned additional routes coming online in the 2007/2008 season? There is a persisting rumor going around the Bay Area that NWA is hunting for the AA slot that will be vacated with the loss of the AA SJC-NRT flight. That slot is being rumored to be in the hands of NWA for the right price for an additional West Coast frequency. Or could it be that SJC-NRT will be going NWA for the right contract price?
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AirframeAS
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:52 am

I can say this without fear: As long at Chainsaw Steenland is in the controls, nothing is gonna change, its just gonna get worse.....which is pretty sad. That dude is killing that airline to the ground. Somebody has got to FIRE that guy!!!! I hope the Board of Directors pulls its head out of the sand before its too late....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 41):
As long at Chainsaw Steenland is in the controls, nothing is gonna change, its just gonna get worse.....which is pretty sad.

Like I have said time and time again, I am disgusted with what NWA has turned into. NWA was an incredible airline until the late 1990's when the service and quality seemed to take a back step to the almighty dollar. At what point will he understand that the airline needs a stronger identity and a market segment that differentiates itself from the others. NWA has a goldmine in Asia.

Take the FCO, FRA, CDG, and LGW routes out of the network. Replace the A330-300's flying those routes witl code share flights operated by KLM, Air France, and Alitalia. Take the A330-200's that would be freed from those routes and open up expanded service to Asia. Resume SEA-KIX with the A332. Start MSP-KIX with the A332. Start MSP-NGO with the A332. Start LAX-NGO with the A332. Bring the silly idea of the 757's flying to Europe to an end. Take those 757ETOPS equipment to Asia and solidify the market presence.

In the meantime dump the overkill of leisure routes to Las Vegas, Florida, and Mexico. Replace the equipment on those routes with increased service to key business centers of New York, Boston, Washington D.C., Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Seattle. Buy new seat covers for the fleet to be comparable with those found on the A330. Invest some money into getting the A320/757 IFE systems working on the domestic flights. Expand Buy on Board, and offer bonus World Perks miles for On-Board Purchases.

Finally dump the whole Memphis hub. Reduce Memphis to a simple Focus City and retain only service to MCO, TPA, MIA, LGA, DFW, BNA, LGA, DCA, MSP, DTW, LAX. Turn Memphis into a all A319/A320 station. Loss the overkill of Connections in Memphis and focus on the O/D in the market. Discontinue IAH, ATL, EWR, CLE, and CVG and leave those to the Sky Team carriers CO/DL that already serve those cities from Memphis.

Bottom Line... Northwest Airlines was at one time the airline not to mess with. It has become the airline that everyone walks all over. Lets get back to the days of the NWA video with Tina Turner singing "Simply the Best, Better than all of the Rest".. That song was NWA at one time, it can be again..

[Edited 2006-07-04 04:10:52]

[Edited 2006-07-04 04:15:27]
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
centrair
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 40):
NRT-Osaka-Hong Kong
NRT-Nagoya-Hong Kong
NRT-Sapporo-Anchorage
NRT-Phuket
NRT-Bali
NRT-Cebu
NRT-Penang
NRT-Maui
NRT-Kona
NRT-Kuala Lumpur (This was scheduled to start a number of years ago)
NRT-Jakarta (This was scheduled to start a number of years ago)

The following A320 routes from Narita?

NRT-Mindanao
NRT-Macau
NRT-Quezon City
NRT-Davos
NRT-Palau
NRT-Hanoi
NRT-Ho Chi Minh
NRT-Danang

They could do all these routes but the problem would end up being NRT and its restrictions. NWA has slots but NAA might want to allow more competition before granting new destinations to NWA. NWA would have to do these from KIX and NGO and add a larger aircraft to feed up to NRT.

NW couldn't launch all these flights. They could launch a few of them. The demand is probably there but the number of seats on the connecting flights back to the US are limited. NW would need another 744 or A332 somewhere. This is where the 787 comes in. They can do direct non-stop to new destinations in Japan and other parts of Asia, and then could use smaller aircraft to other destinations. you could have NW flying MSP/DTW to CTS, NGO, NRT, KIX, and FUK with 787s going on to other destinations and 757s and A320s going to smaller destinations from those airports as well.

[Edited 2006-07-04 05:29:46]
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
luv2fly
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:34 pm

There are no A320's in NRT anymore it is all the 757's.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
centrair
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RE: NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:39 pm

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 44):
There are no A320's in NRT anymore it is all the 757's.

This is true, but they could bring a few back. How many ETOPS certified A320s do they have?
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!