legoguy
Posts: 2971
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Is This Real?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:50 am

I searched for somewhere to ask this but couldn't find any threads remotely linked so I have had to start a new thread just to ask this question. Please feel free moderators too delete after a while.

My question...is this real? Obviously it looks like a fake



I thought it was fake until I read...With Richard Branson on the ground to talk about how he wants to wrest Concorde away from the spoilsports at BA intent on retiring her, the A340 provided a stunning display belying its huge size... and the banner on the rear fuselage said it all!

The above taken from here...

http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow03/biggin/biggin.htm

Thanks,

Dave
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
EMBQA
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RE: Is This Real?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting Legoguy (Thread starter):
My question...is this real? Obviously it looks like a fake

It's real... just look at the other pictures of G-VFOX in the A.net data base.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hideaki Ohki


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rudy Chiarello

Looking through the data base it was only on from June '03 to Aug '03...

[Edited 2006-07-02 04:01:26]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
thetuna
Posts: 131
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RE: Is This Real?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:57 am

Looks fake to me.

I can't find the photo in the database that shows this.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/3622/564654566dl.jpg

[Edited 2006-07-02 03:57:57]
He just ate the big one! Hog!...get away from that thing!! Just get away from it!
 
legoguy
Posts: 2971
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:59 pm

RE: Is This Real?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
It's real... just look at the other pictures of G-VFOX in the A.net data base.

Hahahahahaha brilliant. Thanks for the reply. Good old SRB!! For anyone else interested or who had no idea of this,

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0369475/L/

Ive no idea how to get the picture up so a link will do!
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
legoguy
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RE: Is This Real?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:01 am

Quoting Thetuna (Reply 2):
I can't find the photo in the database that shows this.

The thought never occured to me to look in the database until EMBQA suggested it, and so I looked at the old pictures of G-VFOX and low and behold......

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0369475/L/

:D:D:D
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Is This Real?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:03 am

It's real. See here, just behind the wing:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © K.H. Ng - HKAEC

"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
TACAA320
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RE: Is This Real?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:35 pm

Quoting Legoguy (Thread starter):

My question...is this real?

It is !
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
jrosa
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RE: Is This Real?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:00 pm

Amazing! and VS is not lying!
 
jorge1812
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RE: Is This Real?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 3):
Ive no idea how to get the picture up so a link will do!

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/help.main?open=new

Georg
 
pavlin
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RE: Is This Real?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:53 am

SRB has a big mouth. Why didn't he bought all those concordes?
 
BA767s
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RE: Is This Real?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:19 am

He offered to but BA wouldnt sell to him.

John
Come on, let's fly!
 
legoguy
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RE: Is This Real?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting BA767s (Reply 10):
He offered to but BA wouldnt sell to him.

Damn BA! I would love to have seen the concordes kept in service, or at least flying condition! They would have looked OKish in the Virgin Atlantic colours!
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
QantasA380
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RE: Is This Real?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 7):
Amazing! and VS is not lying!

How true!! Good on ya VS!!
Virgin Blue - what colour's RED????
 
Stealthz
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RE: Is This Real?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting BA767s (Reply 10):
He offered to but BA wouldnt sell to him.

And considering what BOAC/BA paid for them that is a decision that should not have been theirs to make!!!

Having said that SRB despite his considerable acheivements is something of a brash talker(bet most of you didn't know that Big grin ) and would likely have not been serious about a long term plan!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
legoguy
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RE: Is This Real?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 13):
likely have not been serious about a long term plan!

Even to have them in service for even a year or two would have been nice
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
raffik
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Thetuna (Reply 2):

Sorry, but it is actually real.
- Alec
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 13):
And considering what BOAC/BA paid for them that is a decision that should not have been theirs to make!!!

And theres that myth again.

BA/BOAC paid £125million for the original fleet of 5, not the £1 an aircraft myth thats been propagating.
 
diesel1
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:26 am

Didn't matter whether BA wanted to sell Concorde or not, manufacturer (which = Airbus iirc) support was withdrawn so no-one could fly it...

Branson would have been aware of that, so was able to have a few digs at BA, come up with a media and people friendly plan of keeping them in service, fully aware that it would never happen, and that there was no risk of him having to take on a hugely expensive aircraft that he would never have been able to operate profitably in the then current economic situation.
I don't like signatures...
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:44 am

The picture is true, though that sticker was slapped on there for a bit of free publicity.
Sir Richard never misses a chance to poke fun at BA.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 11):
Damn BA! I would love to have seen the Concordes kept in service, or at least flying condition! They would have looked OKish in the Virgin Atlantic colours!

That offer from SRB was almost certainly made with the knowledge that BA wouldn't sell them to him, so, why not make some free publicity, to make him look good, there were too many things stacked against VS operating Concorde.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 14):
Even to have them in service for even a year or two would have been nice

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Concorde fly again, but keeping one in airworthy service, so it can be flown once or twice a year isn't feasible.
And, once it's kept in service for a year or 2, people will still be as reluctant to let her go.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 16):

And theres that myth again.

BA/BOAC paid £125million for the original fleet of 5, not the £1 an aircraft myth thats been propagating.

Yes, and add onto that, the maintince costs, the fuel, flight/cabin crew wadges (who were higher paid than non Concorde crew) and the cost to get them back into service after the crash.
I think someone predicted that BA had spent more than £1billion on the Concorde fleet in total.

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 18):
Yes, and add onto that, the maintince costs, the fuel, flight/cabin crew wadges (who were higher paid than non Concorde crew) and the cost to get them back into service after the crash.
I think someone predicted that BA had spent more than £1billion on the Concorde fleet in total.

Yup, Concorde operated with a profit with only 50% passenger counts, with a total profit of around £1.7billion against operating costs of £1billion for BA at retirement.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:58 am

Wasn't this started when the Wheel at the Thames could not be Erected.
& the Branson Baloon appeared over it with this banner.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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EGTESkyGod
Posts: 1460
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 11):
Damn BA! I would love to have seen the concordes kept in service, or at least flying condition! They would have looked OKish in the Virgin Atlantic colours!



Quoting Legoguy (Reply 14):
Even to have them in service for even a year or two would have been nice

See below.......

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 17):
Didn't matter whether BA wanted to sell Concorde or not, manufacturer (which = Airbus iirc) support was withdrawn so no-one could fly it...

Branson would have been aware of that, so was able to have a few digs at BA, come up with a media and people friendly plan of keeping them in service, fully aware that it would never happen, and that there was no risk of him having to take on a hugely expensive aircraft that he would never have been able to operate profitably in the then current economic situation.

Branson knew that BA wouldnt sell him Concorde, as Airbus wouldn't let Virgin operate them. So what he did was to (twice) offer a ludicrous sum of money (£1 then £1m per Concorde) knowing full well BA would say no, as not only could VS not operate them, but even if they could why would BA sell their aircraft to their main rival and the supersonic customers that go with it? Branson KNEW this, and once again, Joe Public thinks the Beard is the good guy, and BA is the bad guy.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 18):
That offer from SRB was almost certainly made with the knowledge that BA wouldn't sell them to him, so, why not make some free publicity, to make him look good, there were too many things stacked against VS operating Concorde.

Quite.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 18):
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Concorde fly again, but keeping one in airworthy service, so it can be flown once or twice a year isn't feasible.
And, once it's kept in service for a year or 2, people will still be as reluctant to let her go.

No-one wants to see Concorde fly more than I do (don't even try to challenge that one!!!), I even joined Save Concorde Group in an effort to try and get something pheasible going. However, the fact remains that as things stand, Concorde will not fly again. Airbus don't want it, AF don't want it, and as long as those two don't want it, neither do BA.

The fact that people are so gullible as to believe the Beard could "Get it up" is what annoys me. BA tried their hardest to keep them flying, and if it hadn't been for BA, Concorde would have retired a lot earlier in 2003. In fact, if it wasn't for BA, Concorde could have gone as early as the 1980s. People would do well to remember that.



PS, I might add I've never flown with either airline, but it looks like I'm flying with VS in September to Sydney, I'll probably write a trip report too....
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
legoguy
Posts: 2971
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:59 pm

RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 19):
Yup, Concorde operated with a profit with only 50% passenger counts, with a total profit of around £1.7billion against operating costs of £1billion for BA at retirement.

Was this 0.7 billion pounds not worth keeping it in service?

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 18):
That offer from SRB was almost certainly made with the knowledge that BA wouldn't sell them to him, so, why not make some free publicity, to make him look good, there were too many things stacked against VS operating Concorde.

Good old SRB!
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 22):

Was this 0.7 billion pounds not worth keeping it in service?

No, spares had run out, all the aircraft were coming up to major checks, operating costs were increasing, passenger numbers decreasing and Air France wanted out.
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 22):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 19):
Yup, Concorde operated with a profit with only 50% passenger counts, with a total profit of around £1.7billion against operating costs of £1billion for BA at retirement.

Was this 0.7 billion pounds not worth keeping it in service?



Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
No, spares had run out, all the aircraft were coming up to major checks, operating costs were increasing, passenger numbers decreasing and Air France wanted out.

Not to mention the fact that Airbus had stated they would no longer support Concorde, therefore BA couldn't hav kept them in service any longer than they did. BA fully intended to fly Concorde until about 2006/2007, so they would just about be finishing now anyway, and Branson would have probably tried to pull the same stunt, and probably we would all be having these threads again and again when it has been discussed to death.
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3646
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 21):
Branson KNEW this, and once again, Joe Public thinks the Beard is the good guy, and BA is the bad guy.

And BA wasn't smart/courageous/bold (take your pick) enough to tell Branson to buy the Concorde for a cool million a piece and see how long VS could keep them flying. Give it 6 months before VS gives up and BA can come back at Branson with "so who needs Viagra now huh?"

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 17):
Didn't matter whether BA wanted to sell Concorde or not, manufacturer (which = Airbus iirc) support was withdrawn so no-one could fly it...



Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
No, spares had run out, all the aircraft were coming up to major checks, operating costs were increasing, passenger numbers decreasing and Air France wanted out.

That AF wanted out is the real reason BA had to retire their Concorde. Once AF had announced their intention, it didn't make financial sense for Airbus to continue to maintain the remaining fleet. Had Airbus decided to continue anyhow, they would have been forced to raise their prices to where it would have become prohibitively expensive (even more so than it already was) for BA to maintain its fleet.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 25):
And BA wasn't smart/courageous/bold (take your pick) enough to tell Branson to buy the Concorde for a cool million a piece and see how long VS could keep them flying. Give it 6 months before VS gives up and BA can come back at Branson with "so who needs Viagra now huh?"

Admittedly, it would've been funny to see Branson eat his words, however not at Concorde's expense. Besides, why would BA sell a retired Concorde to him when they can make money from it as a museum piece?
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
74472
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:19 pm

RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 7):
Amazing! and VS is not lying!

For all you misguided fools I will tell you that initially BOAC didnt want the Concorde fleet because it was seen as a money pit. Hence the token price of £1 per aircraft.

It was only the expertise of British Airways' marketing that turned it into a profitable fleet. A 'very' profitable fleet. Something that Air France struggled to do.

Hence after the Air France crash, France decided they weren't interested anymore and pulled the plug on technical support. Graciously BA didn't advertise this as the reason.

So you see, without BOAC and then BA, the Concorde story might of ended alot quicker than it did !
 
blueflyer
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:40 am

I'm surprised to read that BA sold their Concorde to museums. I would have thought they would have donated the aircraft and taken a tax write-off instead. How much did they sell them for? I hope no more than the scrap metal value.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
Yirmiyahu
Posts: 48
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:42 am

LQQKs like a very nice flight sim photo with outstanding graphics. IMHO
Hine Ma Tov Umenayim, Shevet Achim Gam Yachad
 
74472
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:19 pm

RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 28):
I'm surprised to read that BA sold their Concorde to museums. I would have thought they would have donated the aircraft and taken a tax write-off instead. How much did they sell them for? I hope no more than the scrap metal value.

They didnt sell them. They're on loan.

I sat on the flight deck of Concorde for take-off out of JFK.

I doubt if you have because if you had you wouldn't call her 'scrap metal'

Strange thing to say on this web site.
 banghead 
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting 74472 (Reply 27):
For all you misguided fools I will tell you that initially BOAC didnt want the Concorde fleet because it was seen as a money pit. Hence the token price of £1 per aircraft.

And yet *again* this crap comes to the surface.

BOAC placed an initial order for 6 options in 1963, in 1964 this was increased to 8 options. In 1972 BOAC converted its options to 5 firm orders.

BOAC merged with BEA in 1974 to form BA.

In 1977 BA payed £23million an airframe for the 5 orders BOAC placed in 1972, as did Air France. A lot more than £1, I think you will agree.

C/N 216 was purchased at a cost of £1000 plus £100 per engine, as an unfitted airframe which BA then spent millions bringing up to fleet level.

C/N 214 was offered as a spares and replacement airframe until 1984, when it was acquired by BA under the £16.5million parts and spares buyout of the British Government from the Concorde operating agreement.

The only potential airframe purchased for £1 was C/N 214, which had a book value of £1 on BAs books at the time of ownership transfer - but thats it, thats the only airframe that a £1 acquirement cost can possibly be attributed to.

The myth comes from the fact that in 1979 BA reduced the book value of all the Concordes to £1.00 each, as an accountancy thing. The full Concorde purchase loans were payed back as part of the BA privitisation.
 
74472
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:19 pm

RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 31):
And yet *again* this crap comes to the surface

Well if we're going to split hairs ! LOL

I didn't know that Richard but the rest is pretty much true.

Thankyou for putting me right.  Smile
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3646
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting 74472 (Reply 30):
I doubt if you have because if you had you wouldn't call her 'scrap metal'

I'm not calling Concorde scrap metal. I'm saying that if BA indeed sold them to museums, they should not have sold them for more than the scrap metal value, meaning, they should have sold them for the same amount of money they would have received if they had instead disposed of the aircraft by selling them to one of many companies that would have taken them apart and sold them as scrap metal. In other words, I hope that BA hasn't used the historical value of the aircraft to make an additional profit over the typical disposal of an aircraft that is no longer intended to fly.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
74472
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:19 pm

RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 33):
I'm not calling Concorde scrap metal. I'm saying that if BA indeed sold them to museums, they should not have sold them for more than the scrap metal value, meaning, they should have sold them for the same amount of money they would have received if they had instead disposed of the aircraft by selling them to one of many companies that would have taken them apart and sold them as scrap metal. In other words, I hope that BA hasn't used the historical value of the aircraft to make an additional profit over the typical disposal of an aircraft that is no longer intended to fly.

Well why didn't you just say so. lol

It's all academic anyway because they havn't been sold.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 31):
And yet *again* this crap comes to the surface.....
.....The myth comes from the fact that in 1979 BA reduced the book value of all the Concordes to £1.00 each, as an accountancy thing. The full Concorde purchase loans were payed back as part of the BA privitisation.

Richard, happy to stand corrected!

Regards,

Chris


PS if their book value was only £1.00 then maybe the BA shareholders should have insisted they sell to SRB for the £1,000,000.00 he offered and laughed all the way to the bank  Big grin
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Tom12
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:29 am

RE: Is This Real?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 17):

Exactly

Tom
"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX

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