aking8488
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Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:07 pm

Does anyone know if airline CEO's, VP's, etc. fly their own airlines or are precluded from doing so after 9/11? If not, do they have dedicated fleet planes for their use? Thanks in advance.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:11 pm

I believe they fly both their own airline and others. Don't know if they have corporate craft.
 
fly727
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:12 pm

I fly the CEO of the airline I work for. The airline uses 737s but he flies in a Challenger and a Hawker for some trips. On others, specially those in which we have a shuttle service he takes the airline.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
flyf15
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:14 pm

My airline (a US regional) has a Citation used for many things, including carrying around senior management.

Also, as a funny sidenote, in our simulator sessions, a common call we get from ATC is that our CEO is angry we left him at the airport and we must return to pick him up -- an easy, and comedic, excuse for the instructor to use to get us to return back without giving us an emergency (if one is not called for).
 
lincoln
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting Fly727 (Reply 2):
fly the CEO of the airline I work for



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 3):
My airline (a US regional) has a Citation used for many things, including carrying around senior management.

I swear I was wondering about this myself less than a week ago. Next question: How are these flights/aircraft crewed -- are there one or two particular crews (captain, first officer, flight attendant(??)) or is it handled more like normal line flying?

Is it completely unheard of for an airline to ferry an mainline aircraft to get the CEO from A to B [assuming, if necessary, scheduled service is unavailable for whatever reason(s)]?

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
goodmanr
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):
Is it completely unheard of for an airline to ferry an mainline aircraft to get the CEO from A to B [assuming, if necessary, scheduled service is unavailable for whatever reason(s)]?

It is probably much more cost effective to fly a Gulfstream or the like...even if they had to charter one.
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FL1TPA
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:34 pm

I am unaware if FL has a private aircraft for management transportation. All I know is that our CEO Joe Leonard, COO Bob Fornaro, and many senior VPs fly our normally scheduled flights (mostly MCO-ATL roundtrips).

To my knowledge FL has never repositioned a 717/737 for executive transport. If they chose to do so, it would need to be crewed per FAA regs; three F/As even if only one person.

I do know that a 717 that was not scheduled for service on the line was used by Joe's daughter when she was in flight training. She just did a bunch of touch-and-go flgihts with her instructors.

FL1TPA
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:53 pm

What????????????????????????

High ranking officials of all airline fly positive space on their own and all other airlines. All airlines give the perk to big shots of other carriers.

What kind of message would that send if the senior management of common carriers wouldn't fly their own aircraft?

Strange question if you ask me.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:41 pm

Herb Kelleher is an Executive Platinum at AA, and pays the FULL F26 fare!
 
fly727
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:43 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 7):
What kind of message would that send if the senior management of common carriers wouldn't fly their own aircraft?

A message like: Quiet often it is more cost-effective to use a corporate jet rather than withdrawing revenue aircraft from service.

But don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely sure that, like my CEO, others also use some airline flights for their traveling needs.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):
I swear I was wondering about this myself less than a week ago. Next question: How are these flights/aircraft crewed -- are there one or two particular crews (captain, first officer, flight attendant(??)) or is it handled more like normal line flying?

As the corporate operation differs quiet substantially from the airline and the type ratings are different, most of the times the crew is fixed to the executive aircraft. In our case, we were taken out of the line and assigned to "Air Force One" and thus I'm weeks from losing my precious 737-rating currency.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
patroni
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:39 pm

Quoting Fly727 (Reply 9):

A message like: Quiet often it is more cost-effective to use a corporate jet rather than withdrawing revenue aircraft from service.

I don't think that Jetdeltamsy referred to withdrawing an aircraft from service for a VIP flight for the CEO, but rather to putting the CEO on scheduled flights of the own airline.
In the times of modern communication technology, top management people are in touch with the business even when waiting in an airport lounge, sitting on board of commercial aircraft etc, so that imminent decisions don't get delayed.
 
aking8488
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:10 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 7):
Strange question if you ask me.

This comment was not necessary. My question really related to whether boards of directors/shareholders now allow CEO's to fly commercial aircraft due to security concerns. Generally, large companies all have private arrangements for their CEO's and even require them to travel this way during personal travel. I was simply wondering if the airline industry was any different. I don't think any sort of negative message would be sent by this.
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:22 pm

Airline CEO's mostly travel POS SPACE NON/REV on regular scheduled flights. They are not heads of state where they rate their own private aircraft.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:21 am

Most CEO's and officers fly First Class Positive Space on their respective airlines. Most usually have walkup, First Class paid positive space passes. But there is something a lot of people do not know about that. For instance, after 9/11, DL then-CEO and crook Leo Mulling went skiing with his kids in JAC, all paid FC seats. On the return flight, he spoke with the gate agent as she seemed stressed. She mentioned that the First Class cabin had somehow become overbooked and since they were all paid tickets, she was worried about having to downgrade a paying passenger. So he gave up his seat, made his son take a seat in coach and let his daughter fly in the last FC seat. He then sat in the cockpit jumpseat(I assume there was some way to get around that) for the flight to ATL.

Everyone would remark about how wonderfully nice that was(which I will admit it was) for him to both the gate agent and the customers. And being that each of the paid tickets were like $2,400 for him and his children made it even more noble. But what they did not notice was that it was made on the DL company expense card. So he would get back to ATL, turn his expense report into the Finance department and be reimbursed, in which the FC trip he took was free. Still nice of what he did, but he didn't pay anything for it anyway.


Anytime I have seen a CEO of my airline fly, its always been on our aircraft. Certainly First Class, but our aircraft.

One story of the only(in recent years) known Delta CEO to actually fly on his passes was former CEO Dave Garrett. He and his wife would actually fly on his space available passes around the country. He once was waiting for a flight with his wife and the gate agent announced that there was two seats left available on that flight for him. He asked if there were any other non-rev's waiting to board. The gate agent advised him there was a pilot waiting behind on the standby list on his way home. Mr. Garrett told the agent to let the pilot board, as his employee's fly before he does. Therefore, the pilot made it on the flight and the Delta CEO had to wait for the next one. My, the good ole days, how nice they were...


OttoPylit
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 8):
Herb Kelleher is an Executive Platinum at AA, and pays the FULL F26 fare!

Not! Herb flies for free...positive space, front cabin.

Quoting Aking8488 (Reply 11):
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 7):
Strange question if you ask me.

This comment was not necessary.

I just couldn't imagine the thought process behind such a question.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 7):
What kind of message would that send if the senior management of common carriers wouldn't fly their own aircraft?

Strange question if you ask me.

Not so much. I do know..from running into them at the Exec. Terminal.. some Airline biggies flying corporate craft. Sometimes it makes more sense to charter no matter what company you are with.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 13):
Anytime I have seen a CEO of my airline fly, its always been on our aircraft. Certainly First Class, but our aircraft.

I have seen some DL corporate chieftans fly jets from Delta AirElite.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:08 am

I've seen Ralph Norris (Ex NZ CEO) fly regular NZ services, so I presume they use their own airline here in NZ
 
GDC2006
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:17 am

I know its not quite tied in to the particular question but apparently our Chairman Willie Walsh books flight on ba.com in World Traveller (Economy) to random destinations, paying the required amount on his personal credit card and then takes the opportunity to talk to his fellow economy passengers about the service they have received and how it might be improved....... Has anyone heard of that being done before??

GC
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trekster
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:35 am

Gord, i had not heard that one.

I know Mr B flies alot in Y and the other classes sometimes seeing what pax think, and i heard he does service sometimes, handing out the ice cream.

I know for sure Jet blues David Neeleman flies B6 alot to see what the service is like for the PAX
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m180up
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 18):
I know for sure Jet blues David Neeleman flies B6 alot to see what the service is like for the PAX

he has also traveled in US, I received the call from his assistant one day, to make a pos non rev booking with his travel card,
Werner from SAL
 
Stealthz
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:57 am

If I was a shareholder of an airline that diverted or sent a mainline aircraft for an executives use I would be calling for the head of that executive and likely several others.
Whilst I can see some justifcation for a corporate aircraft, I would also as a shareholder prefer the management of "my" airline travelled on regular scheduled services. This is likely more important from a customer perception and "customer experience" perspective than anything else.
Executives that put themeslves above the customer AND the employee have no place in modern business, certainly not in any business I might consider investing in.

The thread starters premise that airlines may disallow exec travel on sched. services due to safety concerns post 9/11 is particularly abhorrent, imagine if that policy was leaked to the public(and if I had evidence of it I would!) the already troubled airline business would collapse overnight.
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TVNWZ
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 20):
I would also as a shareholder prefer the management of "my" airline travelled on regular scheduled services. This is likely more important from a customer perception and "customer experience" perspective than anything else.

I would, as a shareholder, expect the airline CEO to travel in such a means that it was best for the business. That may mean having to travel another airline or corporate charter. Business does not necessarily schedule itself around airline schedules no matter if you actually do the scheduling.

I am sure they travel extensively on their own airline, but I would be surprised if it were exclusively. And I would not expect it.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:31 am

TVNWZ,

It is easy to see how politicians get into trouble when the media change their context by selectively quoting them. Does this omitted phrase change the context of the sentence at all ?

Quote:
Whilst I can see some justifcation for a corporate aircraft,

I agree the CEO and senior execs should make the best travel decisions for the business but I would prefer, nay insist they travelled on sched services(their own or others) as often as practical. Experiencing the product and how the customers feel about it is often THE best best business decision.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
USPIT10L
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 13):
One story of the only(in recent years) known Delta CEO to actually fly on his passes was former CEO Dave Garrett. He and his wife would actually fly on his space available passes around the country. He once was waiting for a flight with his wife and the gate agent announced that there was two seats left available on that flight for him. He asked if there were any other non-rev's waiting to board. The gate agent advised him there was a pilot waiting behind on the standby list on his way home. Mr. Garrett told the agent to let the pilot board, as his employee's fly before he does. Therefore, the pilot made it on the flight and the Delta CEO had to wait for the next one. My, the good ole days, how nice they were...

That truly is the old-school DL mentality. Thanks for the story about Leo Moron, though, it does show he did care about customers/employees. Too bad he wasn't as good with strategic planning.
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MLIGRBZW825
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:13 pm

I know Awac's CEO has been seen in MKE gettin on, in jumpseat, but my boss in GRB did see him getting on an AA flight with his family once...Which is kind of funny, but that was year's ago.
'I'm too close for missiles, I'm switching to guns' -Iceman
 
HPAEAA
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:29 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):
Is it completely unheard of for an airline to ferry an mainline aircraft to get the CEO from A to B [assuming, if necessary, scheduled service is unavailable for whatever reason(s)]?

Lincoln

The couple of times I met Doug Parker he was always flying company A/c at HP... with one exception... and that was he flew CO from JFK to CLE to catch our PHX trip... apparently he finished early in NYC and could get home quicker coming through CLE... anyways.. most CEO's fly Company equipment... however they also have the ability to fly other airlines eq pos space based on the aggreements... Anthony Mule i know was infamous amoung HP flight attendents for getting up inflight and helping the F/A's do the meal and Beverage service... what a guy.... anyways just my .02
Why do I fly???
 
Slovacek747
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:33 pm

If I was CEO I would fly with my airline but first class everytime whenever I want. I understand they aren't the president of the USA but they are the CEO. They should be able to override anyone and sit wherever they want on any flight.

Slovacek747
 
Stealthz
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:02 pm

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 26):
They should be able to override anyone and sit wherever they want on any flight.

And why is that? NO employee should be able to bounce a paying customer.
That is the arrogant attitude that gives senior management a bad name and brings down companies.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
ANother
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 26):
They should be able to override anyone and sit wherever they want on any flight.

Sorry, I disagre - Revenue Passengers come first, any CEO that thinks differently shouldn't be in this, or any other business.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 14):
I just couldn't imagine the thought process behind such a question.

It's a very appropriate question. There are many industries/companies where CEOs and other important people are actually forbidden from flying commercial unless doing otherwise is just not possible, for safety reasons. Sometimes it even occurs to people much lower down the corporate ladder because they have specialized knowledge that would be very harmful to the company if lost (think the guy who really knows how the entire IT system works at a bank, as opposed to the CTO who usually doesn't have a clue).
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letsgetwet
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 29):

That's silly, so you're saying people who are privilege to important info shouldn't be allowed to fly commercial? Talk about paranoia! Why not keep the guy locked up in a safe?
 
blueflyer
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 30):

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't, I'm saying that, as a matter of fact, some are not. They probably don't mind too much either.

This kind of situation didn't begin with 9/11, by the way, it just got bigger then. Back during the first Gulf War when Saddam threatened to blow up aircraft in retaliation, CEOs and other executives didn't stop flying, they just started using corporate aircraft and private jets more. That, and 9/11, and the second Gulf War have increased the use of private jets among large corporations.
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LAXintl
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:55 am

What BlueFlyer is saying is right.

I know several businesses that dont have their senior executives fly commercial domestically especially now with the relative cheapness of fractional ownership.
For management a little further down the corporate ladder there are strict travel guidance as to who can travel with whom. Basically the policy is designed to avoid having too much of the corporate brain trust on a single flight.

As far as airline CEO, there are more than a few that have corporate jets at their disposal, ride in limousine's, live in hotels or other company provided housing. Its simply another basic perk that is offered to remain competitive with the rest of the corporate world.
Should not shock anyone.
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 29):
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 14):
I just couldn't imagine the thought process behind such a question.

It's a very appropriate question. There are many industries/companies where CEOs and other important

I think the stockholders would justifiably be upset if the CEO of our airline chose to fly on business jets due to safety concerns. What the hell kind of message would that send to our customers? Good grief.

I agree that it is prudent to not put too many top executives on the SAME flight. I can see that once in a while (once in a blue moon) it may make more sense for a senior executive to fly a charter flight, when timing is absolutely essential.

I still think the question was nuts. Of course they fly our line.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 32):
As far as airline CEO, there are more than a few that have corporate jets at their disposal, ride in limousine's, live in hotels or other company provided housing

Let us in on who these airline CEO's are!!!
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 34):
Let us in on who these airline CEO's are!!!

All of them.

[Edited 2006-07-03 23:29:17]
 
Stealthz
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 29):
(think the guy who really knows how the entire IT system works at a bank,

I realise this is just an example, but any bank or corporation that was in this position deserves to lose this knowledge!
This expert is much more likely to have a heart attack, get run over by a runaway shopping cart, die from a blood infection from a paper cut than come to harm in a commercial airliner!! Not mention being poached by another firm.. or just quitting!!

That raises an intersting point, I wonder what the comparitive safety stats are for corporate/charter jets compared to RPT airlines? Just an opinion but I would be willing to bet they don't compare that well!!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 26):
They should be able to override anyone and sit wherever they want on any flight.



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 27):
NO employee should be able to bounce a paying customer.

IMO, they should be able to sit where they want BUT they shouldn't actually use the benefit to bump passengers. There's a difference between being able to do something and actually doing it.
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fanoftristars
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 15):
I have seen some DL corporate chieftans fly jets from Delta AirElite.

I would guess that most DL execs fly Delta Air Elite, with occasional space positive first class travel. Do any other airlines have an "elite" arm that handles private travel?

Funny to note that in our company, our CEO cannot fly on the same flight as any of the VPs or Senior Directors of the company. So even if they're going to the same place, they must take different flights/airlines. We're not big enough to have our own jet, or even fractional ownership.

It's also funny to note that when our new CEO took over, he made it a point to fly only coach and use miles/status to upgrade, to show he was helping the bottom line. That lasted about two months. Now our SkyBonus membership bought status for his entire family, as well as several Directors that don't travel on a regular basis...haha
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ca2ohHP
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RE: Airline CEO Transportation

Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:31 am

In January '06 Mesa cancelled a PHX-ONT flight Doug Parker was (supposed to be) on.....not the best career move I thought  worried 

Most senior management gets positive space travel cards for use on many different airlines, so I can't believe Herb Kelleher pays full fare on AA. I actually remember one particular occassion when I worked for UA and ex-CEO Stephen Wolf was on a flight IAD-LHR, and the mechanics refused to push the plane back from the gate.

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