robertmalpass
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Upper Deck On 747-100s

Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:53 pm

Hi

Does anyone know what the upper deck was/is like on the old 741s, the ones with just the three windows. Was it used for j-class pax or crew rest? Also which airlines still fly these old birds? I'm pretty sure IR flies something old and decrepit but not sure who else, other than the odd cargo lines...
 
EMBQA
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:08 pm

Early on they were a first class lounge. Later they were converted to a seating area when airlines learned that 'bums' in seats is where the money is. Only a few 747's were built with the 3 upper deck windows and most all were converted. Three upper deck windows dosn't make it a -100, it was just an early option.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
duke
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:14 pm

Actually, the first 145 or so 747s, both -100s and -200s, were built with the three windows on each side, and after that, both -100s and -200s were fitted with the full set of windows on the upper deck. Some but not all of the originals were later converted to full window configuration. On the other hand, some airlines who already had the three windows had the extra windows plugged when they got other examples delivered with them. Today, among the few flying examples of the original configuration are the General Electric 747, one of the NASA shuttle launchers, and maybe 1 or 2 aircraft with Air Atlanta.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Early on they were a first class lounge.

Any Pics.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
worldxplorer
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:54 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Any Pics.

Here are a couple of TWA -100 lounges in a.net DB

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mike Genovese
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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mike Genovese


WorldXplorer
 
EMBQA
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Any Pics.

Above are a few... just search under ... 747-100, Cabin Pictures... I think there were only 60 or so.... maybe 10 were upper deck.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
BostonBeau
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:10 pm

I sat on the upper deck on VS's "Spirit of Sir Freddie" a few times. What always made me laugh was that since there was only one door on that level, and the old spiral staircase, the FAs would tell each passenger individually that their "alternative emergency exit" was through the cockpit window!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:24 pm

I flew on an AF 741 from MIA to CDG about 10 years ago......we sat in the upper deck (J class); there were 12 seats up there (3 rows of 4 abreast) and each seat had one window. It was very intimate - on the early 741s, the upper deck has a shorter length than on later 742s - and very very comfortable. I remember that the J class seat did not have a built in foot rest, an ottoman like thing was provided to rest your legs - low tech and marvelous. Only 4 of us were seated upstairs (me and my partner, and two biz men travelling alone).......the service was nothing short of spectacular and it was so peaceful. The IFE was primitive, a projector showing a movie on a pull down screen that you could hardly see....but who cared, it was a great experience.

The Lounge Era was great, I flew on TW, UA, and NA 741s with upstairs lounges, it was very nice and quite luxurious.....and it was great to be able to go hang out somewhere else for an hour or so on a longer flight.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:49 pm

I remember reading that Pan Am used the upper deck lounge area for a high-end restaurant that served First Class passengers....
 
vv701
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Duke (Reply 2):
Actually, the first 145 or so 747s, both -100s and -200s, were built with the three windows on each side, and after that, both -100s and -200s were fitted with the full set of windows on the upper deck.

I think it may have been more than that. The early BOAC/BA 747 136s had three windows on the upper deck:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George W. Hamlin


This configuration was retained after the formation of BA in 1974 but converted sometime in the following ten years:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Brimley
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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fergal Goodman


Certainly 747 136 G-AWNL with the line number 187 was originally a 'three window' aircraft:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Robinson


suggesting that a minimum of 187 aircraft were manufactured in this configuration. It is not clear whether any or all the remaining six BOAC/BA 747 136s were delivered with three or with more upper deck cabin windows. Doers anyone kmow or does anyone know whejn and where the fleet was converted?
 
airxliban
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:09 am

The Iran Air one is EP-IAM and its actually a 747-100B which is more like a -200, so IIRC at that point the full window lineup was already being offered. Anyway, IR uses the area up there for seating (economy, 3-3)
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
KLMyank
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:21 am

I remember flying on TWA upstairs years ago, it was either 1st or biz (cannot remember as I was about 5!) but I remember being pi**ed off that there was no window next to my seat!
 
113312
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:42 am

There was only one emergency exit, on the right hand side, on the upper deck. However, there are not any cockpit windows that open let alone as an emergency exit. Instead, there is a hatch in the ceiling of the cockpit that is opened and inertial reels are used to lower the cockpit evacuees to the ground.
 
BostonBeau
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:08 am

You're right, 113312. It was "through the cockpit" not "cockpit window".
 
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N707PA
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:19 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jörg Tegen



Any other carriers with a left side upper deck door?
 
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kl5147
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting N707PA (Reply 14):
Any other carriers with a left side upper deck door?

KLM on their 6 initial 747-206B's after modification in the early 80's

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Photo © Martin Boschhuizen - AirTeamImages

"The world is just a click away!"
 
legoguy
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting Robertmalpass (Thread starter):
Also which airlines still fly these old birds?

Did boeing upgrade some old 747-100's into 400's or 300's?

Heres afew pictures...

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1068611/L/

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1044278/L/
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
n8076u
Posts: 419
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting 113312 (Reply 12):
There was only one emergency exit, on the right hand side, on the upper deck



Quoting N707PA (Reply 14):
Any other carriers with a left side upper deck door?

Some Qantas -238s had an upper deck exit on both sides. Must have been an option.

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
citationjet
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Any Pics.

Here are some pics to Braniff's upper lounge on their 747-100. I few up there as a child on non-rev flights. There was a small bar and some first class chairs.
http://www.braniffinternational.org/aircraft/747braniffplace.htm

.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting Duke (Reply 2):
Actually, the first 145 or so 747s, both -100s and -200s

Correct. It wasn't just the 741's that had them, SR's 742's were delivered with the 3 window upper-deck layout.

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Photo © Eduard Marmet

Made from jets!
 
DreamsUnited
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:55 pm

Continental had the first class lounges up there... with pong and everything!

-Josh
Do not abort a takeoff because a cockpit window pops open!
 
C133
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:08 pm

It was only a lounge for AAL the entire time they had the fleet. Can't remember for sure, but I don't think they even had seatbelts installed up there. For awhile, the rear of coach was a piano bar, but the FAA took a dim view of bunches of people standing for lengthy periods and anyway, seats generate revenue. The airline gots lots of publicity out of it while it lasted, though.
Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:13 pm

Did boeing upgrade some old 747-100's into 400's or 300's?

There were only two of such aircraft and they were a special order from JAL in the early 80s for Japanese domestic service. They were 747-146SRs with a stretched upper deck, so they became the 747-146SR/SUD.

They were not -400s as -400s were not produced until several years later and cannot be "converted" due to major structural differences.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
n8076u
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:15 pm

UA's 747-100s had a lounge way back when, with a circular couch at the rear, and big comfy chairs. No pong, though  Wink

Later on, that was taken away, and business class seats were installed, even on the 3-windowed models. It felt like being in a submarine with only a few seats having a window next to them.

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
FireFly
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:23 pm

About 1980, when I was a little kid, we flew Braniff a couple of times from SEA to HNL... At that time, we were all seated downstairs (in first class) but also had the option of running (again little guys) up the circular staircase to the upper deck. There, we could pick our seats, and ding the call bell to request more 7-Up. Best of all, we were able to visit the flight deck. We spent lots of time sitting in the 4th seat in the cockpit, talking to the flyers about whatever we could think of. It was Great!!

Now, I have 2 little boys. We have flown together a total of 8 segments, and of course, except on the ground, they can't catch a glimpse of the cockpit...makes me sad that they can't regail the flight crew with their little boy's stories like we used to do, on our very favorite airline, Braniff!!

Now, thanks youknowwho for locking little kids out of the flightdeck!
"Bury me at sea, boys; where no murdered ghosts can haunt me" MacGowan
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:38 pm

Nice Pictures.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:36 pm

Why cant someone at Boeing dig into the files and produce an upper deck photo album?
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:04 pm

Northwest Orient ad has pics:

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
flyabunch
Posts: 444
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:19 pm

I hate to admit it...age and all, but I flew several times in First Class on AA 747's from LAX-JFK and got to take advantage of the lounge. I remember the first time I went up there, my boss and I were the only ones on the deck and we served ourselves from the open bar setup. I do not remember if there were seatbelts or not but I know that we had to be in our assigned seats below for takeoff and landing. I never once saw a flight attendant come up there except to chase us down.

Mike
 
IR707
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:45 pm

In the mid-70's the IRAN AIR 747SP's had a tea room on the upper-deck for the first class passengers, beautifully decorated.
 
vinniewinnie
Posts: 638
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 4):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Any Pics.

Here are a couple of TWA -100 lounges in a.net DB

WorldXplorer

Heu that looks gross! Different times different tastes!  Wink
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8129
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:11 pm

I agree about the TWA upper deck lounge, I can't believe how bad that looks. It's like something from Commie Russia. That's what the upper deck lounge would have looked like if some little airline from Chad had 747s in the early days. Mental.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
cedarjet
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:24 pm

PS here's the route map for Northwest Orient's 747 ops in 1970:
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=M...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
KDTWflyer
Posts: 796
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RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:52 pm

http://www.airchive.com/Memorabilia/Boeing/747-8.jpg

http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES/MEM-BOEING.html

nice site of memorabilia from the era of the widebodies. When widebodies were actually used domestically.
NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Upper Deck On 747-100s

Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting Duke (Reply 2):
Actually, the first 145 or so 747s, both -100s and -200s, were built with the three windows on each side,



Quoting VV701 (Reply 9):
Certainly 747 136 G-AWNL with the line number 187 was originally a 'three window' aircraft:

Remember that F models are included in the line number count too.
This may be where the descrepancy comes from.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 22):
They were not -400s as -400s were not produced until several years later and cannot be "converted" due to major structural differences.

In addition to the structure, many of the aircraft mechanical and electrical systems are completely different.

Tod

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