747400sp
Topic Author
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:17 am

I has mix feeling about this post due to the tragic lost on that fateful day, but I feel this story had to be told.

On July 17 ten years ago a TWA Boeing 747 131 departed JFK for Paris, not to long after the 747 departed was destroyed in a inflight expulsion. The aircraft was one of the 747 125 that Eastern Air Line order, but Eastern cancel the order in favor of L-1011 Tristar. TWA bought this 747 and turn it into a 747 131. This 747 photo and history was use in an airliner book written in the early 90's.

I remember when I first herd of this crash. I just came home from bike riding, when I came home, my father was watching CNN and the head line was TWA 747 exploded. Later there would be heart braking stories for example the little faren exchange student who was flying back home to Paris and died in the crash. Also their was to me the most heart braking story of all, when a man lost his wife and two daughters onboard. There also a triumph over tragedy story where a comic striped writer made a cariter base on his sister, who was onboard flight 800.
Last was is the story of all is about the captain, I believe his name is spelled Kevorkian. You could Tell he was happy flying 747, because the News said he had a my other car is a Boeing 747 bumper striker on his car.
These people should be remembered ,and wrote this because of the aniversary of TWA flight 800, may all those people lost in this tragic crash RIP.
 
CO7e7
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
These people should be remembered ,and wrote this because of the aniversary of TWA flight 800, may all those people lost in this tragic crash RIP.

I 2nd that.

Also, i don't intend on busting your chops brother, but next time you post... run the check spelling!  Wink
 
CSMUK
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:29 am

My thoughts really go out to all those who where effected in that horrid accident, sometimes I think if that situation had to happen to me, then I want to be the one on the aircraft who dies, not one of the family members who where at home left behind!

Dana.
 
FutureFO
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:30 am

Yea I think this is the month of the 10 year anniversary of the controversy over the crash of TW800.



Sean
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
pilot21
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:31 am

While you are entitled to write this reflection on a very sad event, I would suggest you turn on the spell checker on your PC, and also consider re-reading what you write before posting.
That way, you can ensure it makes sense.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
Jonno
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:40 am

I typically take the high road and don't comment about bitchy replies, but telling the poster of this thread to check the spelling is rude, rude, rude. Has it occured to anybody that the poster may be deaf and is writing in ASL (American Sign Language)?

And if the poster isn't deaf, why not send him/her a private message about the spelling, which has NOTHING to do w/the topic!
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:55 am

Back on topic...

It is kinda spooky but I flew that aircraft back in the 80's from STL to ORD. I didn't know it until last year, but I was going over some old pictures and there was a picture of me in front of the window and the plane in the backround just before boarding. The plane's number was visible. I wondered and checked and it matched.

It is a tragedy that will linger in our memories for a long time.
 
IFEMaster
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:03 am

And on my birthday no-less.

Couldn't believe it when it happened.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
slider
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:11 am

10 years....wow.

Hard to believe that 10 years of deceit, lies and unanswered questions remain for the 230 lost souls on that fateful day.
 
87dreamin
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:07 am

I'm sorry -- what deceit, what lies, what unanswered questions? No terrorism. Exploded center wing tank caused by an underfueled tank overheated by external AC packs on a hot day; sparked by uncased, old wiring.

Since then, aging aircraft, aging wiring ADs, soon-to-be-released fuel-tank inerting AD, nitrogen-inerting system certified. And TWA never recovered.

TWA 800 was an unimaginable tragedy -- that govt. and industry have worked hard to address responsibly and with no small amount of pain.

Please try to be a bit more judicial in your posts.
 
ANNOYEDFA
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:08 am

It's amazing how small the world is. In the past two years I have met and flown with people who knew victims of flight 800. I had a jump seating flight attendant and we got to talk and she told me how she used to work with TWA, she was hired in 96. So I went on to ask her if she knew anyone on flt 800 and she said yes. A young black man she trained with and became friends with just a few month earlier was called upon to work the Rome flight, which was later canceled. He spoke with her and told her something wasen't right and he didn't feel he should go to work. The problem was he was a new hire, and on reserve so he had no choice. Well he left his crash pad or home got to the airport to find out he was now deadheading on TWA Flight 800.......... The flight actually bounced around through crews from what I was told. A flight that was normally pretty senior went pretty junior and had more then one reserve on it.

About 7-8 months ago I flew with a first officer that was a furloughed TWA flight attendant. We had a long layover and went out and talked over dinner and drinks about how much he missed TWA and how great it really was there. He also told me how he studied to be a pilot basically sitting on his jumpseating working flights. So he then went on to talk about Flight 800 and how his girlfriend, a reserve was called to work it. I'm pretty sure it was Jill Z. I forget her full last name. If you go on the memoral site there are all their pictures as there were over 50 TWA crew members onboard the flight. Jill Z was headlined as her first and last INT'L trip with TWA.

The day that plane blew up for me was unforgettable. I was born and raised in NY and for hours would sit and watch departures from JFK on my front porch. I would of seen it had I been at the beach that day but family was visiting from out of state. I hope they all have been resting peacefully and the center fuel tank "theory" rests with the victims family.
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
ZKOJH
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:19 am

10 Years ago , crums how times fly's , I can remember that event , Was on my lunch break at school, and was reading the paper, with a few mates and it was all over the front page, even the british paper's make a big deal into things like this, just shows you how my lunch breaks were back then lol's
Vietnam time..
 
L1011Lover
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:23 am

I can´t believe it´s been 10 years already... I remember it like it was yesterday. And I´m still shocked to this day!

1996 was such a devastating year in airline safety history... I remember how closely I followed the newscoverage and aftermath of the Birgenair crash in February in which many German Tourists died, in fact two former neighbours died in that crash. I didn´t remember them too well, but my parents did.
Then in May the crucial Valujet crash in the Florida Everglades followed setting off the same controversy about no-frills and low-cost airlines in the US than the Birgenair crash did in Germany.

July 18, 1996 was a beautiful, hot and sunny morning here in Germany (and all of Central Europe) and my mother´s 42nd birthday. I was 18 and in the senior class and back then my mother and I shared a car. Because it was her birthday and she had plans to meet up with friends for breakfast she needed the car that morning, but offered to give me a ride and to drop me off at school.

We listened to the radio when the news came on. The first thing they reported was that an American registered Boeing 747 crashed shortly after leaving JFK Airport New York for Paris. They didn´t say it was a TWA flight right away, but I knew instantly that it had to be a TWA aircraft, as they were the only US carrier at the time flying 747´s from JFK to Paris. I remember how I said to my mom, "This has to be a TWA flight, oh my god how awful", and she immediately replied in a concerned voice and tone like mothers do "Didn´t you just make reservations on them???"
Only when the radio station´s correspondent from New York came on she said that it was (in fact) TWA´s flight 800 which crashed on it´s way to Paris Charles de Gaulle with over 200 passengers and crew onboard and that everyone on the plane is feared dead. My mom dropped me off and went on to her celebration, while I talked to my best friend (who is as much of an aviation buff and enthusiast as I am), he already knew about the tragedy and of course we talked about nothing else and concentrating on anything else in school was nearly impossible! I still get goose-bumps when I think of the fact that all that happened even before TWA 800´s scheduled arrival time of 8:15 am!!!

In fact two days before, I made reservations on TWA for a short day trip to Kansas City from Lexington, Kentucky, where I was about to spend the summer with my aunt, uncle and cousins (I partly grew up in KY). I usually took (and still take) DELTA from Germany to the US to see my family and friends and that was already arranged when I decided that I wanted to take a trip to Missouri. DL´s roundtrip fares on the LEX to MCI route weren´t the lowest so I called several other US carriers and finally decided to take advantage of TWA´s cheapest offer. Plus I was so thrilled fly on TWA again after only one experience with them in the early nineties. And the day before the tragedy I told my best friend: "Guess what airline I´m going to take to Kansas City... TWA!!!

I made reservations through TWA´s office in Frankfurt via telephone but asked them to forward the reservation to my travel agency so they can issue the ticket for me. My travel agent had a hard time with TWA cause something went wrong with the filekey. She spent hours on the phone with them and finally got irrate. She told me to come again on the 18th as she should be able to finally issue the ticket by then. What a coincidence!!!
When I walked into the travel agency on the evening of July 18, she just kind of smirked at me and said: "We have you´re ticket, you still want it??? They crashed last night!!! After all that hassle and now they crash!"

When I came home from school that afternoon of course I immediately turned on the TV and watched CNN´s live coverage. I remember the pictures of that piece of the wing floating in the water and that some of the debries was still burning on the surface. Live on TV!!! It was haunting me and I thaught how surreal it was... well 9/11 was still over 5 years in the future and who would have ever expected seeing something so horrifying like that live on TV!!!

Of course I took my TWA flight from LEX via STL to MCI and return a few weeks later. It was business as usual and I was amazed how professional TWA´s operation was, even though I´m pretty sure deep inside all TWA employees were devastated. You couldn´t tell!!! They were all highly professional and went out of their way to provide superior service to their valued customers.

Well that´s my personal TWA story in July 1996.

When I flew back to FRA by the end of August I took DELTA through CVG and JFK and while on approach to JFK from CVG we were in a holding pattern and circled over Long Island and I had to think a lot about TWA 800. When we finally approached JFK the flight attendant announced connecting flight gate information, while I was taking DL flight 72 to FRA another flight connecting to my CVG flight was Swissair 111 to Geneva!!!

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
Also their was to me the most heart braking story of all, when a man lost his wife and two daughters onboard.

Former TWA flight attendant Pam Lychner, together with her daughters Shannon and Katie.

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10):
A flight that was normally pretty senior went pretty junior and had more then one reserve on it.



Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10):
I'm pretty sure it was Jill Z. I forget her full last name. If you go on the memoral site there are all their pictures as there were over 50 TWA crew members onboard the flight. Jill Z was headlined as her first and last INT'L trip with TWA.

Her name was Jill Ziemkiewicz (what a beautiful young woman she was) and she was the junior flight attendant, second junior flight attendant was Dan Callas who had been with TWA a few months longer than Jill. After that the seniority curve was steep, third junior flight attendant was Ray Lang with 20 years of experience

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
Later there would be heart braking stories

There is also the story of the 66 year old French Flight Service Manager who was in his 36th year with TWA and was working along with his flight attendant wife of 20 years. They always flew the Paris flight together. In fact they met on flight 800 over 20 years ago. He kept flying because he didn´t want to retire before his wife would be able to. He hated the idea of sitting at home alone waiting for her to come home from a trip. He said without her, he would only be sitting there and be bored!

May they all rest in peace and never be forgotten!  crying 

Thank You 747400sp for bringing up this topic and starting this thread!

Best regards

L1011Lover
 
elal106
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:40 am

i remember cnn that evening. My dad was worried because my aunt was crossing the atlantic on a twa 747 to come visit us that same night. One brief moment of relief, only to follow with another of pain...i remember waking up the next day only to be told that my 19-year-old cousin was on twa 800 on his way to rome to pursue his dream of playing basketball. His luggage arrived on the earlier flight to rome, but he was bumped onto flight 800. Upon recovery of his body, his wallet was returned later that summer. It reaked of tunalike scent. I remember the corners of the photographs inside it that turned white from the saltwater. I grew up flying on TWA. Many memories both good and bad.
 
Alitalia744
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10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:29 pm

RIP, such a sad event, remember just sitting down for dinner when the parents threw on CNN and there it was the infamous video of the wreckage on fire in the water.

Such a sad ending for a great bird, flew her many times back and forth between JFK-ATH.




And as for screaming about the OP's english, relax everyone, maybe they're ASL!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
slider
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:30 pm

Quoting 87dreamin (Reply 9):
I'm sorry -- what deceit, what lies, what unanswered questions? No terrorism.

That is your opinion. Go ask Richard Clarke why he continues to lie, among other people. Read 'Frist Strike', do some research, and you'll quickly realize there are certainly other alternative and very viable theories as to what caused it.

I just find it curious that so many people come out of the woodwork to flame me when I bring this topic up. Why not expand your horizons? You believe everything the government tells you?

Quoting 87dreamin (Reply 9):
Exploded center wing tank caused by an underfueled tank overheated by external AC packs on a hot day; sparked by uncased, old wiring.

That's one plausible idea. Considering a testbed Evergreen 747, which was literally 2 serial numbers from TWA's A/C was tested at the same time, under the same conditions and same time, and the temp of the fuel in the tanks DROPPED, the hypothesis is hardly sound.

That night, the NTSB's very mission was compromised...they were told to fish bodies out of the water instead of finding out why that plane went down. It was a directive that changed their mission. The lies continued from there.

Quoting 87dreamin (Reply 9):
Please try to be a bit more judicial in your posts.

The word is "judicious" and I am being extremely judicious in my comments. It is entirely my right as an American, not to mention a TWA employee at that time to question my government.

Once they come through with the FOIA requests to release the debris field among other things, I'll perhaps recant my criticism. Here's a couple other little nuggets for you to digest:

10
The number of years this crime has gone unsolved.

270
The number of eyewitnesses that the FBI admitted saw what appeared to be ascending streaks of light.

34
The number of eyewitnesses interviewed by analysts from the Defense Intelligence Agency’s Missile and Space Intelligence Center whose descriptions “were very consistent with the characteristics of the flight of [surface to air] missiles.”

1
The number of eyewitnesses the New York Times interviewed.

0
The number of eyewitnesses that the New York Times interviewed who had seen an ascending streak.

1
The number of witnesses, according to the CIA, who confused the crippled and allegedly ascending TWA 800 with a missile (“the man on the bridge.”)

1
The number of interviews that the CIA fully fabricated (“the man on the bridge”).

3200
The number of feet the CIA claimed the nose-less plane climbed.

1700
The number of feet the NTSB claimed the nose-less plane climbed.

0
Of the roughly 750 total FBI eyewitnesses the number who told the FBI they saw the nose-less plane climb at all, including other airline pilots.

12
“Or less.” The number of total eyewitnesses that, a year later, the New York Times was reporting had seen the crash.

0
The number of Freedom of Information Act requests to which the NTSB has responded in regards to its climb calculations.

0
The number of ships or subs the Navy claimed were within 185 miles of the disaster.

4
The number of Navy ships or subs the FBI, in its final report, admitted was in “the immediate vicinity” of the disaster.

7
The number of days it allegedly took the Navy to find the black boxes in 130 feet of calm water off the Hamptons.

7
The number of hours it actually took the Navy to find the black boxes of a crashed Turkish airplane in 7200 feet of water earlier in that year off the Dominican Republic.

4
The number of seconds missing at the end of both the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder.

3
The number of satellites in position to record the disaster.

3
The number of satellites reportedly broken at that very moment.

0
The number of times the New York Times used the word “military” or “satellite” in the first two months of reporting on TWA 800.

5
The number of minutes it took the Department of Defense to alert Russia that one of our satellites had spotted a Ukranian missile accidentally downing one of its aircraft over the Black Sea in October 2001.

5
The number of different official explanations authorities gave for what the FAA radar technicians had seen “merge” with TWA Flight 800 on the night of July 17.

116
The number of pieces of “suspicious” debris, many of which had tested positive for explosive residue in Long island, that were sent to the notorious FBI lab in Washington.

116
The number of pieces of suspicious debris that were never heard of again.

150
Roughly the number of airline pilots I have communicated with since the book came out.

3
The number who believed that mechanical failure had destroyed the airplane.

200
The number of (local) TV and radio interviews I (Jack Cashill) have done since the book came out.

190
The number of interviewers who were largely or completely supportive.

100
The number, roughly, that had actually read the book.

27
The number of mainstream media reporters and producers I have talked to since the book came out.

1
The number who were largely or completely supportive.

1
The number who had read the book.

0
The number of mainstream articles, reviews, or interviews on the book.

2
The number of times Senator John Kerry referred to the destruction of TWA 800 as a terrorist act on national TV.

0
The number of references to TWA Flight 800 in the Senate Select Committee on Intelligent Report in 1996 and 1997, on which committee Senator Kerry sat.

230
The number of good souls whose memories deserve much better than ten years of deceit.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting Elal106 (Reply 13):
One brief moment of relief, only to follow with another of pain...i remember waking up the next day only to be told that my 19-year-old cousin was on twa 800 on his way to rome to pursue his dream of playing basketball. His luggage arrived on the earlier flight to rome, but he was bumped onto flight 800. Upon recovery of his body, his wallet was returned later that summer. It reaked of tunalike scent. I remember the corners of the photographs inside it that turned white from the saltwater.

Elal106, I'm terribly sorry about the loss of your cousin. Sometimes, these things seem to simple and easy to accept to those who are fortunate enough to have not had to deal with it. Getting a firsthand account such as yours really brings the tragedy into perspective for the rest of us. Who would have thought that an a.netter among us has had to deal with such an unfortunate event.

Let us also not forget the Montoursville, PA High School group heading to Paris for a summer field trip, suffering the biggest loss of life of the trip from one town.

I remember that during that summer, I worked as a bellboy at the airport Holiday Inn between my junior and senior year. I loved the job as the hours were flexible, the lobby atmosphere was very spacious and relaxed, and all the airline crews stayed there. The morning after, July 18th, I walked up to the private concierge floor to do some dusting and stocking of the pantry. Its very quiet up there around 7am, so I turned on the TV and the default channel was always CNN, just to have something to listen to while I worked, and as I turned around to begin cleaning the windows I heard them mention "airliner crashed". I turned back around to see recovery efforts in the waters off Long Island, as well as video from the night before of the water burning. They showed the Coast Guard pulling up pieces of the aircraft into boats, as well as suitcases and personal belongings. I vividly remember a piece of the red and white fuselage with part of a window bobbing up and down in the water. I couldn't help but sit down and watch zombie-life for the next hour or so while recovery efforts continued. All I could seem to think was, "How many planes can fall out of the sky in one year? First is Valujet, now TWA, and all during the Olympics, too." My first thoughts on the possible crash was one that happens often, terrorist bomb. Seemed like a viable reason: large airliner, many people, well-known carrier, international relations, international scale with Olympics in U.S. We've since seen that it was not terrorism, but a preventive maintenance issue, one that will make air travel safer in the future years due to inert nitrogen gas introduction possibly becoming required on all airlines to prevent overheating and sparking fuel vapors.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
ANNOYEDFA
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:00 am

Ahhh, finally some TRUTH...... Anyone that believes the gov't on what happened to TWA 800 believe Mr.Jackson never has a nose job.
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
OttoPylit
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 15):
you'll quickly realize there are certainly other alternative and very viable theories as to what caused it.

I just find it curious that so many people come out of the woodwork to flame me when I bring this topic up. Why not expand your horizons? You believe everything the government tells you?


For the sake of those involved and due in large part to the tragedy, please do not try to turn this into a conspiracy theorist thread. Lets focus this thread on remembering those lost. If you would like to debate your claim, feel free to begin another thread as many times as you like, you have that power. We may never know the truth behind it, and that is not something we can control. But this thread is not here to debate whether it was a mechanical failure or your missile belief, but its certainly not the best place to debate it. If this gets turned into a flamewar thread because of the "missile" theory, I will recommend deletion of the entire thread in order to not waste any more time that could be spent on remembering those lost as compared to arguing a point that none of us will ever know.



OttoPylit

[Edited 2006-07-04 17:10:26]
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
Rotate
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 15):
7
The number of days it allegedly took the Navy to find the black boxes in 130 feet of calm water off the Hamptons.

7
The number of hours it actually took the Navy to find the black boxes of a crashed Turkish airplane in 7200 feet of water earlier in that year off the Dominican Republic.

4
The number of seconds missing at the end of both the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder.

3
The number of satellites in position to record the disaster.

3
The number of satellites reportedly broken at that very moment.

 eyepopping   eyepopping   eyepopping 

RIP

Robin
ABC
 
richierich
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:32 am

Believing the gov't is either in one's nature or it is not, I guess it depends on your personality. I don't know that there will ever be enough proof to convince the skeptics -so the cause of this tragedy will remain a mystery for a lot of people.

Whatever the cause of the horrific crash, I can't believe it has been 10 years already. So much has happened in our own lives - and also the aviation business - but I'm sure the memories are still fresh and painful to the families and friends of the 230 people lost that day.

I was at JFK T5 just a week or two after that crash and it was a surreal place. I've always enjoyed the unique Saarinen building, even though it was looking a little dilapidated in places, it was still "cool". But I'll never forget the somber mood lingering around the place. It was evident on the faces of the TWA crewmembers, most of them still wearing yellow ribbons on their uniforms, if I remember correctly. At the gate area (these were the days when you could get airside without a boarding pass), I felt it even more. There were flowers next to one of the gates - not a lot but several bouquets - I didn't find out what they were for or who they belonged to but I imagined that it must have been the gate used to board tragic TWA 800. It made me think about the 230 passengers and crew who came through the same tube and to the same gate area as I was standing in, to board what should have been a routine flight to Paris.

It made me think of the kids from Montoursville, PA, and that it could have just as easily been my high school class trip. I believe I read every obit in the NY Post and Daily News, perhaps searching for answers to questions that cannot be answered. I rarely get this philosophical.

The TWA crash is something that will both interest and haunt me forever. Obviously it didn't have the scope of, say, 9/11, but a lot of the feelings were very similar.

The sad legacy of TWA 800 is that I don't think anything changed or was improved to make flying safer. Assuming that is was a center fuel tank explosion, the exact cause was and will never be determined, so only guesses can be made as to how to prevent future disasters. I hope there is never another one like this.
None shall pass!!!!
 
richierich
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 18):
For the sake of those involved and due in large part to the tragedy, please do not try to turn this into a conspiracy theorist thread. Lets focus this thread on remembering those lost. If you would like to debate your claim, feel free to begin another thread as many times as you like, you have that power. We may never know the truth behind it, and that is not something we can control. But this thread is not here to debate whether it was a mechanical failure or your missile belief, but its certainly not the best place to debate it. If this gets turned into a flamewar thread because of the "missile" theory, I will recommend deletion of the entire thread in order to not waste any more time that could be spent on remembering those lost as compared to arguing a point that none of us will ever know

Good summary, Otto. For once, you and I can agree on something!
Happy 4th of July buddy.
None shall pass!!!!
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:09 am

My God, is it ten years already? I remember watching the news that night hoping against hope that some survivors would be found.

Quoting Slider (Reply 15):



Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 17):

Don't forget your foils hats before logging off....



RIP TWA 800.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
slider
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 18):
For the sake of those involved and due in large part to the tragedy, please do not try to turn this into a conspiracy theorist thread.

If the shoe fits....

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 18):
Lets focus this thread on remembering those lost.

But your point is sound and I totally concur. We need to remember those 230 souls. Otto- certainly I shan't create a flame war herein, but wouldnt remembering them also demand that we answer the unanswered questions?
 
OttoPylit
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 23):
Otto- certainly I shan't create a flame war herein, but wouldnt remembering them also demand that we answer the unanswered questions?

No doubt. Ironically, as I wrote my last post, that thought did come into mind. The sad truth is that we may already know(fuel tank explosion), or we may never know(missile). Some say they saw a missile, some say fuel tank explosion is very logical, but the case has been(at least hypothetically) solved and it would take literally concrete proof, and not just residue or how metal is bent, to have the case re-opened and re-examined. We may know or unfortunately, we may never know.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
B707Stu
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:51 am

Yes, I remember it well. I'll never forget the two Coast Guard or Air Force pilots that were interviewed that night about their 'exercises' and that they saw, what they described as a rocket-like appearance strike the aircraft. They were never to be seen on TV again. Fortunately a friend of mine witnessed their interview as well so I know I'm not crazy. The government said that the 'appearance' of the missle was the implosion of the aircraft. I'm not sure I ever really bought it.

A sad reminder that aircraft are ultimately, in spite of many A.Netter fantasies, sophisticated pieces of machinery that are driven by highly flammable fuel. For whatever happened that night, may the souls of the faithful departed rest in peace.. and all the others too.
 
jwenting
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:08 am

OMG, 10 years on and the conspiracy theorists still aren't locked away into the mental institutions they belong in.
I wish I were flying
 
SmithAir747
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:41 am

I remember July 17, 1996, as vividly as if it happened yesterday.

I woke up that morning to the news that a TWA 747 had exploded in midair just after departing JFK; it was quite a shock to me that day.

The day that TWA 800 exploded happened to be the day that I purchased my first car.

That summer was right after my 2nd year in college, and I had worked and saved enough money to purchase my first car (used) from a local dealership; I went out that day to pick it up and pay for it.

The TWA 800 tragedy really struck me--because I had flown on a TWA 747 only 2 years earlier on my school graduation trip to Spain; it was the exact same type of aircraft I had flown on!

To this day, I wonder if the TWA 747 involved in TWA 800 was the same one I had travelled in to Spain two years earlier.

SmithAir747
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:23 am

I saw the cover of Newsday a few days ago, then saw a lead clip on one of the NY tv channels later that day, about how 10 years later and yet fuel tanks are not safer. That couldn't be true, can it?

IIRC, inspections were done on the 747s and a handful had to have new wiring by the fuel tanks. But there haven't been any incidents involving the same issues as TWA800 since have there?
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
varigb707
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:29 pm

Also, i don't intend on busting your chops brother, but next time you post... run the check spelling!
 bigthumbsup   laughing   laughing   laughing   rotfl   rotfl 
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:51 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 8):
Hard to believe that 10 years of deceit, lies and unanswered questions remain for the 230 lost souls on that fateful day.

WOW - only 8 replies until the bull began . . . impressive . . .

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 18):
For the sake of those involved and due in large part to the tragedy, please do not try to turn this into a conspiracy theorist thread.

Way, way, way too late already . . . . thread destroyed . . . nice job Slider and AnnoyingFA . . . .



 tombstone  TWA800
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
slider
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting B707stu (Reply 25):
They were never to be seen on TV again. Fortunately a friend of mine witnessed their interview as well so I know I'm not crazy.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50736

Here's more first hand stuff from actual witnesses, from pilots to on-ground onlookers, to National Guard pilots, all with consistent, credible accounts. I'm not crazy either.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 30):
Way, way, way too late already . . . . thread destroyed . . . nice job Slider and AnnoyingFA . . .

You're welcome.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 31):
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

If that's the case then evil lost a long time ago when the official cause was announced.

Just goes to show that if someone hears lies and innuendo long enough, they'll believe it.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
jwenting
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 31):
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Yes, if decent people don't kick conspiracy theorists in the teeth they'll never shut up.
I wish I were flying
 
piercey
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 8):
Hard to believe that 10 years of deceit, lies and unanswered questions remain for the 230 lost souls on that fateful day.

dammit this is a memorial thread, please start a new thread about the conspiracy and keep the pandora's box closed on this one.

back on topic, it's been ten years already? Feels longer, more like 15 (then again, I'm too young to remember.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
dartland
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:19 am

A good friend of my father lost his daughter and girlfriend in TW 800. I remember my dad getting a call from his friend the following morning with the news and being quite shaken up. I remember that his law firm paid for them to have a funeral mass at St. Patricks and a reception at the Waldorf. Hardly consoling, but a gesture nonetheless.

In 1999 I flew on what was LX 111 JFK-GVA (the flight number had been changed by then) and then CDG-JFK on a TW 747. Both those legs were haunted by those crashes.

Did you all see the article in USA today about how safe it is to fly these days? (see below). I couldn't help but think that they should have finished the article with: "Well, now that we've published this, expect a major air disaster to come along shortly".

Airways in the USA are safest ever

May the airlines continue to fly safely, may those who have "won the lottery" (so to speak) and ended up as victims of the skies rest in peace, and may it be upon the rest of us to ensure their lives were not lost in vain.
 
DABTH
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:55 am

Well whatever happend there 10 miles off Long Island`s coast of ten years ago, for me it sounds quite strange. Personally I don`t know what to belive in...

 tombstone  passengers, crew members...
 
NIKV69
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:10 am

I believe it was a missle. It has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory or whatever else people in this thread want to bitch about. This is not a theory, there are a bunch of eyewitnesses who saw the missle hit the plane, including a veteran armed forces pilot who was flying in the area. R.I.P all on board but that plane did no come down because of frayed wires.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
N908AW
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 15):
You believe everything the government tells you?

Not everything. But I'm not paranoid enough to believe America is destroying its own civilians. How nice of the conspiracy theorists to turn on the government that gives them the right to dwell in what they do not know.
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting Piercey (Reply 34):
back on topic, it's been ten years already? Feels longer, more like 15 (then again, I'm too young to remember

It feels like yesterday, the haunting image of the Time magazine with the wing bobbing downward in the ocean. The image of that damned Ramada at JFK.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
haggis79
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:28 am

well I don't know too much about that case, so I don't dare to judge on whether terrorist attack or not.... only thing that strikes me: IF it was an terrorist attack (by Saddam or whomever) - where's the good for the government in hiding that fact?
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David L
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 37):
It has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory or whatever else people in this thread want to bitch about. This is not a theory

Oh well, that's official then.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 37):
This is not a theory, there are a bunch of eyewitnesses who saw the missle hit the plane

Correction - There are a bunch of witnesses who thought they saw a missle hit the plane. Did they think to ask these same people how many times they had previously seen a missle hit an aircraft?   

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 40):
only thing that strikes me: IF it was an terrorist attack (by Saddam or whomever) - where's the good for the government in hiding that fact?

                                                           

Nevermind the fact that Boeing has had exact occurences in other models. Thia 737-400 and a military 707 come to mind.

Wake up people..... I sure as hell did.

[Edited 2006-07-06 03:23:06]
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
ANNOYEDFA
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:26 am

"Although the CIA zoom-climb scenario defies all known laws of aerodynamics, to make it work even as propaganda the CIA had to show the body of the aircraft structurally intact. In a distinct animation of its own, the National Transportation Safety Board also pictures a nose-less aircraft with wings and fuselage fully in place soaring gracefully upright for several thousand feet"

Sorry but I'll stick with what the 270 people saw. I am not one for conspiracy theories but this seems like one of the biggest accidental cover ups ever. Also like one of the doomed flight attendants brothers said, " If that was the actual cause of the blowing up and breaking apart of the airliner why haven't all U.S. jets been retrofitted with the devise that is supposed to stop this from happening again?" I mean it has now been 10 years, the cock-pit doors were done in a short span of time.
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:02 pm

Ten years. Wow. I came in from running that night, and turned on CNN to see the flaming wreckage in the ocean. I did several sets of sit-ups in front of the television and then watched for a few more hours. Talking heads, blathering television idiot anchors (that's redundant, of course), and yet still I watched.

There is a widely-circulated story about Eddie George, 1995 Heisman Trophy winner and Ohio State running back. I don't know if it's true, but I'll repeat it here anyway.

Eddie's mother was a TWA flight attendant. Supposedly, this flight was one she worked with some frequency. Supposedly, she was scheduled to work this flight but Eddie asked her to rotate out to attend some function he had. She complied, and the plane went down. Eddie still has his mother.

Slider, you're on my RR list because I enjoy so much of what you write. You and I will probably never agree on this issue, but I respectfully suggest that disagreement on this issue is not due to narrow horizons. I've seen Holocaust deniers who say the same thing. I even read what they wrote -- and then decided that their horizons were no broader than mine.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
NIKV69
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:56 pm

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 42):
Correction - There are a bunch of witnesses who thought they saw a missle hit the plane.

No correction, they said they saw a missle hit the plane. The FBI tried to tell them that what they saw was streaks or some other crap after the explosion.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 42):
Did they think to ask these same people how many times they had previously seen a missle hit an aircraft?

Doesn't matter, I have never seen somebody take a knife and stab someone but I sure as hell would know what I was seeing if someone stabbed someone in front of me. Get real, are you serious with this argument. Plus the pilot in the area was more than qualified to tell us what he saw.

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 43):
Sorry but I'll stick with what the 270 people saw

Exactly, look at the investigation. The NTSB began to do their job and the FBI just came in and took over. Instead of listening to the eyewitnesses who are crucial in a plane crash they began telling them what they saw instead of listening to what they had to say. Pretty interesting.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:12 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 45):
Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 43):
Sorry but I'll stick with what the 270 people saw

Exactly

Yea well, hundreds of people have seen Elvis too. Guess that makes it official that he's still alive.  irked  I bet these same people have seen those silent, black helicopters too, eh?

 talktothehand 

This will be my last reply in this thread in regards to the asinie conspiracy theories about TWA 800. This thread should be about respecting the victims memories, not dragging them through the gutter.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:15 pm

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 46):
Yea well, hundreds of people have seen Elvis too. Guess that makes it official that he's still alive. I bet these same people have seen those silent, black helicopters too, eh?

 rotfl 

 checkmark 

Gotta watch out for those black helos and blacked out Chevy Caprices, eh!  sarcastic 

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 46):
This thread should be about respecting the victims memories, not dragging them through the gutter.

And should have been LOCKED BY THE MODERATORS a long time ago. Wanna talk conspiracy theory horsecrap - start another thread . . . wanna honor the victims of TWA800 continue. . . .

Some people's kids . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
slider
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 33):
Yes, if decent people don't kick conspiracy theorists in the teeth they'll never shut up.

Wow- why such vitriol? I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch. My education and experience has been in all empirical, scientific or financial disciplines....measurable. It's not in my nature to go looking for bogeymen and that's not what TW800 is about, quite frankly.

Quoting N908AW (Reply 38):
But I'm not paranoid enough to believe America is destroying its own civilians.

That's not my assertion either. While that might be one plausible option, I tend to think--not believe--it was a ground-based projectile launched by an unknown party.

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 44):
Slider, you're on my RR list because I enjoy so much of what you write. You and I will probably never agree on this issue, but I respectfully suggest that disagreement on this issue is not due to narrow horizons.

Thank you sir! I've always enjoyed your contributions here as well. I think we can disagree without being disagreeable and the TW800 event is something that captivated me from the start.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 46):
This thread should be about respecting the victims memories, not dragging them through the gutter.

No one's dragging anyone through the gutter, unless of course you count me being branded a lunatic wacko, being threatened herein, etc. The victims deserve the truth more than anyone here....we can honor their memories, this tragic event and still make the case that the official record has been tainted, there are still many unanswered questions and that there is no coincidence of the timeline, events, or facts of the matter that continually go ignored.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 47):
. . wanna honor the victims of TWA800 continue. . .

ANC, again, per my above post, honoring them means more than simply nodding, being a good puppet and believing the tainted investigation's flawed directives, results, process, and outcome. But since you and so many feel so emotional about this, I'll refrain from posting in this thread further.

Perhaps I'll create a thread to discuss separately.
 
moman
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RE: 10 Years Ago This Month - TWA 800 Crash

Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:47 am

It was a beautiful Wednesday evening in central Missouri. My buddy and I were driving home from town and heard on the car radio (approx 8 PM IIRC) that a large jet had crashed in JFK. We sped to his house and turned on CNN. It broke my heart when I heard it was TWA flight 800. I will never forget that moment. TWA had been trying so hard to become a strong competitor again and this tragedy ripped the life and soul from that company.

Some of the memorable tidbits I read was that TWA senior management was having some kind of party in St. Louis. Then everyones' pagers started going off at the same time and all realized something had gone terribly wrong.

I also read about the JFK gate agents who were loading up another flight when they got the word of the crash. A passenger wrote that everyone was upset but the poor agents were doing their best under the situation, putting their own emotions on the backburner to take care of the customers.

Still brings a tear to my eye to think of the tragic deaths and beginning of the end for TWA. Godspeed and rest in peace friends.
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