mlglaw
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:30 am

Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:11 am

Could anyone give an explanation of the term 'wet lease'? Thanks.
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dogfighter2111
Posts: 1867
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:02 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:13 am

Wet lease is when the crew is given with the aircraft as apposed to Dry Lease when you only get the aircraft.

Thanks
NMike
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 1964
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:35 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:13 am

Lease the a/c with the crew included (in a nut shell).
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:15 am

Wetlease is also termed as ACMI. Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance.

Basically some one with an airplane and crew ready to fly on behalf of you.

For instance airline A aircraft goes technical and wetlease and aircraft from airline B to fly a load of holiday makers to their vacation.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
dogfighter2111
Posts: 1867
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:02 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
Wetlease is also termed as ACMI. Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance.

Hey, AFAIK they are two different types of lease.

Wet Lease - Aircraft and Crew

ACMI - Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance

So, with an ACMI lease you get more than just a Wet Lease.

Thanks
Mike
 
Demoose
Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:06 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:20 am

So what is a Damp Lease (i'm sure i've heard this term too)...is it aircraft and flight deck crew?
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art
Posts: 2679
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RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:21 am

I have forgotten - would some kind person remind me what a "damp lease" is?
 
mlglaw
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:30 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 1):
Wet lease is when the crew is given with the aircraft as apposed to Dry Lease when you only get the aircra

Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?
Sumus Primi BLS'60 - Oderint dum metuant!
 
dogfighter2111
Posts: 1867
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:02 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7):

I'm not positive, but i think a change in livery is optional. Also it depends on the leasing company as to the length of the lease.

Thanks
Mike
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 4):
Hey, AFAIK they are two different types of lease.

And Dry Lease, where the carrier leases only the aircraft (without crew, insurance or anything else).

The distinctions are becoming meaningless anyhow as more and more financial organizations and lessors are working with airline customers to develop custom-made packages so the carrier gets exactly what it needs (any combination of Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance).

For instance, an existing A340 operator might sign a lease for a few more A340s that covers the aircraft and maintenance only if the engine type isn't the same in order to avoid the additional expenses of supporting a new engine manufacturer.
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TL925
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:15 pm

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Art (Reply 6):
So what is a Damp Lease (i'm sure i've heard this term too)...is it aircraft and flight deck crew?

A Damp Lease is what is currently proposed by Kingfisher for their potential A340-500 routes should the carrier be unsuccessful in receiving international route authority in India. The airline is proposing entering into a Damp Lease with an existing US Carrier. Main characteristic of a Damp Lease is everything similar to an ACMI except for the cabin crew who will remain KFA stewardesses. Should there be a Damp Lease, I would suspect the cabin will also be customized to Kingfisher standards rather than the generic fittings of typical ACMI aircraft.
 
blueflyer
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7):
Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?

The answer is, it depends. The livery will always change to some extent (United Airlines doesn't want a 747 in its color flying French holidaygoers around for Corsair), but depending on the duration of the lease, the cost, the urgency of the aircraft and the mood of the airline CEO, the leased aircraft may just get a quick coat of paint to hide the previous operator, not a "full" livery.

Shortest lease I have seen was for 3 months. That's just my personal knowledge though, not some rule that says a least cannot be shorter than 3 months.
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LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 4):
Wet Lease - Aircraft and Crew

ACMI - Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance

So, with an ACMI lease you get more than just a Wet Lease.

With you assumption who would cover/pay for insurance and required maintenance if the aircraft broke???

My friend Wet Lease = ACMI. Take it from someone that been involved in the leasing business for the last 16 years.

While leases can be structured with many clauses, a general definition of a wet lease is ACMI.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
azstagecoach
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7):
Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?

it's often a one-time affair due to a mechanical fauilure on the scheduled aircraft, so that would make it very shor-term indeed.

Q: when a tour company charters the same aircraft on a long-term contract, that would seem to be a "wet lease" as well. does the term only apply to airlines leasing a plane?
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 13):
when a tour company charters the same aircraft on a long-term contract, that would seem to be a "wet lease" as well. does the term only apply to airlines leasing a plane?

That would generally be a charter.

See in a wet lease the chartering airline would still generally be responsible for ground handling, fuelling, over flight fees etc.
A tour operator cant really cover these as they no established airport facilities or contracts with service providers directly.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
vatveng
Posts: 1093
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:49 pm

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:37 am

Some examples:

Dry Lease: works just like an auto lease; you sign a lease and make regular payments, you get a plane, you are responsible for the operation and maintenance of that plane, but you do not own that plane. AA needs a used plane quick, so goes to the desert and gets one owned by ILFC or another leasing company, signs a contract and that plane joins the AA fleet while remaining the property of the leasing company. AA crews fly it, and AA mechanics fix it.

Wet Lease: AirTran wanted to fly to the west coast from Atlanta. The 717 and DC9 couldn't do it nonstop. They could order a longer-range plane but that takes time, and they wanted to start ATL-LAX/LAS/SFO as soon as possible. They leased three A320s from Canadian charter airline Ryan International Airlines, but AirTran had no pilots certified for the A320, so Ryan provided the crews. The planes were operated on Ryan International's certificate, and the flights were sold as "AirTran Airways, operated by Ryan International Airlines". The planes (in this example) were painted in the AirTran livery. The planes were owned, operated, and fixed by Ryan International. The seats were sold by AirTran.
 
planespotting
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RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:41 am

Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
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RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:33 pm

Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7):
Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?

Taking BA as an example, for two consecutive summers they addressed a capacity shortage by temporarily becoming a 727 operator, wet leasing aircraft from American Trans Air and painting BA titles on them:

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Photo © Andy Martin - AirTeamImages


When delivery of BAe ATP's to the BA Highland and Island Division was delayed BA wet leased two Presidential 146s. They also wore their operator's full livery but were painted with BA titles:

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Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages


When there were major works to the runway at STR BA wet leased a short take off and landing BAe 146 to operate their LHR-STR-LHR service. The airctaft had 'British Airways by Flightline' painted on its nose:

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Photo © Snorre - VIP Vienna International Planespotters


In 1998 BA again had a capacity shortage addressed by wet leasing a 737 from Air Atlanta that was primarily operated on the LGW-GOT-LGW route in all-white livery with BA titles and Speedmarque and Air Atlanta 'subtitles':

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Photo © Johan Ljungdahl


However there was no indication that the BAe 146s wet leased from Titan for operation by BA Regional out of BHX awaiting the transfer of an RJ100 (G-BZAU) from LGW was operating for BA. The first aircraft:

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Photo © Brian vL


was swapped by Titan for sister ship G-ZAPN on 3 August 02. This second aircraft operated in and out of BHX for BA for several months.
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2609
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:01 pm

Given the definition of Dry Lease, does that mean that the bulk of leases held by US carriers are dry leases? The only thing that they get is the aircraft; their pilots, F/A's, and mechanics operate the aircraft.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 18):

Pretty much. As far as the US is concerned, there are other advantages to leasing equipment rather than owning it, such as not having to report it as an asset on your financials.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Definition Of Wet Lease

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 18):
Given the definition of Dry Lease, does that mean that the bulk of leases held by US carriers are dry leases?

Any wet lease by an American airline would have to be from another US airline or it would fall foul of the USA's protectionist laws. So although - as seen in reply 17 - an airline like BA may and has wet leased American registered aircraft the reverse is impossible.

The nearest to a wet lease of a foreign aircraft by a US airline was when Braniff operated BA and AF Concordes between IAD and DFW. A BA Concorde would arrive at IAD from LHR with a special British registration. Instead on the normal G-XXXX where 'X' is a letter all BA's Concordes were reregistered in the non-standard format G-NXXYY where 'X' is a number and 'YY' are the last two letters of the aircraft's former registration. So, for example, G-BOAA was reregistered G-N94AA.

When the aircraft arrived at IAD its British registration was cancelled. It was reregistered to Braniff with a standard format US registration. In the above example this would have been N94AA. The legal UK documentation the aircraft was required to carry on the trans-Atlantic leg of its journey was then placed in a small cupboard in the toilet. They were replaced in the cockpit with the American legal documentation. The aircraft was then flown by a Braniff crew on the IAD-DFW-IAD rotations with, for legal insurance purposes, a BA crew in attendance and with a patch stuck over the 'G-' part of the former British registration.

On arrival back at IAD the whole laborious process was repeated in reverse and the aircraft was placed back on the British register until its next rotation to IAD.

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