BoomBoom
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Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:55 am

Quote:
As co-CEO, Mr. Forgeard was replaced by EADS board member Louis Gallois, currently the head of France's state railway, SNCF. Mr. Gallois, 62, has extensive aerospace experience from previous jobs in the industry.

But to head up Airbus, EADS brought in an aerospace industry outsider. New CEO Christian Streiff, 51, has extensive manufacturing experience, a sign the company sees a need to get its basic production process back on track.

Most of Mr. Streiff's 26 years in manufacturing have been at French industrial conglomerate Saint Gobain Group -- primarily known as a glassmaker.

"Naming a glassmaker as the head of Airbus is certainly an odd choice," said Scott Hamilton, a Seattle aviation consultant. "But if he has a good, strong industrial background and knows how to solve manufacturing snafus, it might not matter in the long run."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1151...anies

IMHO, Gallois and Streiff should quickly get to the bottom of the A380 delays, to the extent they can, considering they are dealing with an entrenched corporate bureaucracy that is in CYA mode.

The should immediatly disclose the truth, they have no reason to cover up Forgeard's and Humbert's mistakes.

There has been much speculation that the excuses for the A380 delays don't ring true. I think we will know fairly soon what the real deal is.
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centrair
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:35 pm

Wow a glass manufacturer...didn't think the situation was this fragile.

Good luck!
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:03 pm

Streiff is in the supervisory board of Continental (german tire-manufacturer ) and Thyssen steel.In those positions he has been a long-standing partner to Daimler-Chrysler,who have explicitely endorsed his choice.He is not so much a french manager but a global thinker and expert in multi-national production and management proceces .Defenitely not a Chirac-boy !
What some here don't see is the newly defined role of Tom Enders with highly endorsed and re-defined responsibilities towards the Airbus-entity.
Streiff will report to Tom Enders ,who will keep the Airbus- management for the USA including MIL A400 and Tanker.
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NAV20
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:23 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
IMHO, Gallois and Streiff should quickly get to the bottom of the A380 delays, to the extent they can

I hope for Airbus' sake that they don't concentrate too much of their efforts on that.

IMO the A380 delays - indeed, the whole A380 project - are not central to the future of the company. The A380 is unlikely ever to make Airbus any real money.

As far as I can see, Airbus' pressing problems are:-

1. It has no products which can compete with the 777 and 787.

2. It has gathered less than 100 orders for ANY kind of aeroplane in the first six months of 2006.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
manni
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airb

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:18 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
2. It has gathered less than 100 orders for ANY kind of aeroplane in the first six months of 2006.

Few remarks,

1) I'm not sure why that is a problem. Why does that number indicate a problem? Where did you pull that number from? Why not consider the whole backlog instead? If Airbus had a 105 orders for a particular aircraft family, wouldn't you pull a different number, let's say 150 out of ..(wherever)..., and claim Airbus has problems because it hasn't reach 150 orders for ANY kind of aeroplane in the first six months of 2006? My question to you NAV, what's with that number 100?

2) The first six months are indeed over, but as far as I can see, results have not been published yet. It might be a little premature to draw the conclusion you just made. Less than a week ago, YOU weren't to sure Airbus would be able to sell ANY aircraft before their backlog runs out (yes that's right, that would have taken something like 4 years), yet the day after, a commitment for 37 aircraft was announced.
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astuteman
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:27 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
What some here don't see is the newly defined role of Tom Enders with highly endorsed and re-defined responsibilities towards the Airbus-entity.

Some of us do, Beaucaire, and have commented on it already.
I believe it to be the most significant management change of all.

Regards
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:31 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
1. It has no products which can compete with the 777 and 787.

Following a letter adressed to all Airbus employes,in which he says good-bye,Mr. Humbert has announced that the imminent launch of the A370 would give Airbus the right tools to compete in the 787 to 777 range.
The new aircaft would be a family of aircraft with a large spectrum of applications and superior performances...

http://www.latribune.fr/Tribune/Arti...3C264C12571A000565951?OpenDocument
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NAV20
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 4):
Less than a week ago, YOU weren't to sure Airbus would be able to sell ANY aircraft before their backlog runs out (yes that's right, that would have taken something like 4 years), yet the day after, a commitment for 37 aircraft was announced.

Yes, Manni. And it turns out to have been not an order, but a 'Memorandum of Understanding' - which, in commercial terms, is presumably worth every bit as much as any other piece of (used) A4 paper. So my view that Airbus orders have dried up remains valid.

I notice too that you only responded to one of my points. Any rebuttal of the other one, or do you find yourself agreeing with me for once?  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
eclipz
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airb

Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:51 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
Wow a glass manufacturer...didn't think the situation was this fragile.

Good luck!

Ahah, Saint Gobain is not a small company, in 2005 :
turnover : 34 873 millions €
profit : 2 868 millions €
not bad for a glass manufacturer hu ? well in fact it's not just a glass manufacturer
http://www.saint-gobain.com/en/html/index.asp

[Edited 2006-07-04 10:55:04]
 
manni
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:38 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
Yes, Manni. And it turns out to have been not an order, but a 'Memorandum of Understanding'

That's why I wrote commitment and not order.
Even you NAV, should be able to acknowledge that most commitments, especially one from an Airbus customer as loyal as TAM, will be firmed up.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
So my view that Airbus orders have dried up remains valid.

NAV, there's no need to be stubborn. Admitting mistakes isn't as worse, than insisting you are right when you're wrong. If you sincerely belief that Airbus will not book a single order or not a good amount of orders in order not to have run trough their backlog in 4 years time, I do apologize, but question your knowledge of that what you seem to like to talk about.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
I notice too that you only responded to one of my points. Any rebuttal of the other one, or do you find yourself agreeing with me for once?

Not necesarily, however you wrote 'As far as I can see', and since I have understood by now, that your information concerning Airbus is limited to that what is known to the general public, in other words no insight in what Airbus exactely is developing (or not) to counter the 777/787, I do understand your sentiment that based on the lack of this information, on the moment you might find that...

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
It has no products which can compete with the 777 and 787.

However, As long as the proposed A350 for wich 100 firm orders have been announced, is not been replaced by a newer version, these orders remain on the books. All be it a lot less orders as compared to the 787, 100 orders isn't particularly no competition, as it represents roughly 17.5 billion US$ at listprice.
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NAV20
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:33 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 9):
Even you NAV, should be able to acknowledge that most commitments, especially one from an Airbus customer as loyal as TAM, will be firmed up.

Recent events - like Qatar;'s commitment to 60 X A350s, which Airbus counted in for a year or so - seem to point in the other direction, Manni? Given Varig's problems, I can see good business reasons (unconnected with any actual need for more aeroplanes in the near future) why TAM should wish to present a confident 'business as usual' posture?

Quoting Manni (Reply 9):
If you sincerely belief that Airbus will not book a single order or not a good amount of orders in order not to have run trough their backlog in 4 years time, I do apologize

I was commenting on the question of 'credibility'. I hold the (sincere  Smile) view that that is the primary reason for Airbus not being able to secure orders at the present time; and that they will have difficulty in securing significant numbers of orders for some time to come. Apart from credibility, they also have three more strikes against them:-

1. They have nothing to offer in the (largest and most profitable) midsize sector.

2. Even if the A380 eventually reaches its performance targets, new orders for those would be no help, as, due to longterm production delays, Airbus look like spending the next five years filling the A380 orders they have already got.

3. As regards their only competitive/available model, the A320, they can expect Boeing to see them coming. All Boeing have to do is allow their sales force to offer 737s at cost or below; which, since their full order books for all types will generate a strong cash flow for at least five years, Boeing can well afford to do. The effect of that will be to 'cut the A320 off at the pass.'

I don't see those views as being 'anti-Airbus.' They're just plain business common sense. Boeing currently hold all the cards, and they can be relied on to play their hand cleverly. I'm quite certain that Airbus management can see those problems looming as clearly as I can.

Problem is, from where I sit, I can't see what on earth Airbus can do materially to improve that outlook in the short term. Nor, I suspect, can the new Airbus management, as yet.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
astuteman
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Recent events - like Qatar;'s commitment to 60 X A350s, which Airbus counted in for a year or so - seem to point in the other direction, Manni?

Doubt it - QR's A350 is obviously dependent on there being an A350.
TAM's commitment has no such uncertainty - A32x and A330's continue to roll quietly (and quickly) off the end of the production line, unaffected by the turbulence in other parts of the business.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
They have nothing to offer in the (largest and most profitable) midsize sector.

although a) A330 orders keep coming in (backlog still 160+ frames) and b) the A350 is still currently on the table - it has a 100 order backlog (without QR) and has NOT been withdrawn - yet. It will either remain and garner more orders (60 from QR for a start  Smile), or it's successor will garner orders. How many? Who knows?

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Even if the A380 eventually reaches its performance targets, new orders for those would be no help, as, due to longterm production delays, Airbus look like spending the next five years filling the A380 orders they have already got.

Nothing worse than having the order book filled for the next 5 years is there?
 biggrin 

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
All Boeing have to do is allow their sales force to offer 737s at cost or below

Again? - It'll take more than that to "cut the A320 off at the pass" for certain.

Regards
 
manni
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airb

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Recent events - like Qatar;'s commitment to 60 X A350s, which Airbus counted in for a year or so

These 60 aircraft have never appeared on Airbus ordersheet NAV.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Given Varig's problems, I can see good business reasons (unconnected with any actual need for more aeroplanes in the near future) why TAM should wish to present a confident 'business as usual' posture?

You do have a worst case scenario for everything it seems. I do not share your pessimistic views. And suspect you will be proven wrong, possibly before the end of the month.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
I was commenting on the question of 'credibility'. I hold the (sincere Smile) view that that is the primary reason for Airbus not being able to secure orders at the present time; and that they will have difficulty in securing significant numbers of orders for some time to come.

For some time to come? That's a very wide definition with an even wider margin. I remind you that last week you had no problems predicting a 4 year period without orders.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
1. They have nothing to offer in the (largest and most profitable) midsize sector.

I'll repeat...

Quoting Manni (Reply 9):
I have understood by now, that your information concerning Airbus is limited to that what is known to the general public, in other words no insight in what Airbus exactely is developing (or not) to counter the 777/787, I do understand your sentiment that based on the lack of this information,



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
They have nothing to offer in the (largest and most profitable) midsize sector.

Besides, the largest sector is without doubt the narrowbody sector. The most profitable, on a per piece base, could be the VLA sector. And with the A330, they currently have all cards in hand when it comes to airlines that need an aircraft in the 767/787/330 category now.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
new orders for those would be no help, as, due to longterm production delays, Airbus look like spending the next five years filling the A380 orders they have already got.

And your point is, besides Airbus enjoying a full orderbook and consequently able to negotiate good future A380 deals, as production slots do not need to be filled in the next 5 years? Let's have a look at the competition, they've got their midsized aircraft (787) sold out untill 2011. Last time I checked, they called it a succes.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
All Boeing have to do is allow their sales force to offer 737s at cost or below;

That's called dumping and is illegal. Boeing will be paying US$ 1.1 billion on fines this quarter, wiping out all their profit. I suspect Boeing will be playing a fair game from now on.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Problem is, from where I sit, I can't see what on earth Airbus can do materially to improve that outlook in the short term.

No need to write that NAV. That was quieeet obvious.  Smile

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Nor, I suspect, can the new Airbus management, as yet.

I suspect NAV, that from where you sit  Wink , you also can't see how Airbus new management intends to improve the currently 'messy' situation they are in.
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baroque
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airb

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
Wow a glass manufacturer...didn't think the situation was this fragile.

It is not because the situation is fragile, it is because glass manufacturers are used to dealing with fluid situations and most of their products are transparent A bit of transparency might be a good thing. So just the guy, apart from that probably not being the limits of his abilities.

It does seem a bit early Nav20 to move to black armbands. By my limited maths, even if they took no orders at all in 2006, their backlog at the end of the year would still be greater than at the end of 2004 - no? Definitely not a clever period, but hardly fatal due to how well they had been doing.

Lets give the miners and glassblowers a chance to see if they can dig their way out of whatever it was that F et al got them into.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 11):
A32x and A330's continue to roll quietly (and quickly) off the end of the production line, unaffected by the turbulence in other parts of the business.

And that seems to give them a degree of stability to survive whatever turbulence they have got themselves into.

The same applies to Boeing with the 737, the performance of that program gives them a base they would sorely miss.

There may be a small problem with the 32x in relation to the guy who riveted his shirt to a plane if you recall, and presumably dumping is a no no. Then again, dumping is probably a bit like insider trading, much is in the eye of the beholder.
 
astuteman
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:51 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
most of their products are transparent

Many are composite, too  Wink.........

Regards
 
NAV20
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
It is not because the situation is fragile, it is because glass manufacturers are used to dealing with fluid situations and most of their products are transparent

LIKE it, Baroque!  Smile

Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
It does seem a bit early Nav20 to move to black armbands. By my limited maths, even if they took no orders at all in 2006, their backlog at the end of the year would still be greater than at the end of 2004 - no?

Leads to some tricky problems, though - for example, buying a new cost-cutting machine for a given line is no problem if you have say three years' production on order, and more orders coming in on a regular basis. If you only have say two years' orders, and nothing coming in, the accountants won't even give you time to drink your coffee before they say, "I'm not sure about that......"
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
BoomBoom
Topic Author
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
IMHO, Gallois and Streiff should quickly get to the bottom of the A380 delays, to the extent they can

I hope for Airbus' sake that they don't concentrate too much of their efforts on that.

I'm surprised. I think straighting out the A380 project and restoring customer confidence is the biggest item on the plate for the new management.

It was the A380 problems that caused the share price to drop and led to the management shuffle. I don't see how they can move forward with an A350/370 program until the A380 problems are addressed and you can't do that unless you know where you stand.
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baroque
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 15):
Leads to some tricky problems, though - for example, buying a new cost-cutting machine for a given line is no problem if you have say three years' production on order, and more orders coming in on a regular basis. If you only have say two years' orders, and nothing coming in, the accountants won't even give you time to drink your coffee before they say, "I'm not sure about that......"

Indeed, the high "average" caused by the A32x could hide problems for other programs. To some extent AFAIK (which is not much) Airbus seem to have been a bit cunning in running the 330 and 340s on the same line, so reducing the number of different lines. This should ??? have the effect of limiting the accountants' scope for the death of a thousand cuts.

I assume that
A32x line safe.

330/340 kept safe overall by the 330 for a while and probably for longer than if it was only for the civil side by the tanker military transport variants.

380, presumably not cut back YET.

300 closing

And then we have no idea how whatever appears "real soon now" will fit into that - or not.
 
Halibut
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 12):
These 60 aircraft have never appeared on Airbus ordersheet NAV.

Well , the 150 Chinese orders have !  sarcastic 

However, how can any of the A350 orders be counted at all ? It is a aeroplane that does not exist !

http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/06/05/24/100bus_corliss001.cfm


Published: Wednesday, May 24, 2006

Airbus: You've got big trouble


Boeing's rival is having a tough time designing its 787 competitor, making A350 launch customer Qatar Airlines "very unhappy."

"We are launch customer for an aircraft that, other than its model number, does not now exist," the airline's chief executive, Akbar Al-Baker, told Flight International. "Qatar Airways is very unhappy about this."

Qatar Airways is the No. 1 customer for A350s so far. Last year, the Middle Eastern airline announced its intent to order 60 of the planes - almost a third of the 182 firm and tentative A350 deals Airbus shows on its order book.

The Qataris have yet to firm up that big order. There's a simple reason, Al-Baker said over the weekend: Airbus keeps changing the plane.

"We have not signed a purchase agreement because we cannot ... purchase an airplane which is undefined," Al-Baker told Reuters. "The definition will change, the performance will change, the fuel burn will change. So many things will change that the airplane that we signed for in last September is not there anymore."




Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
3. As regards their only competitive/available model, the A320, they can expect Boeing to see them coming. All Boeing have to do is allow their sales force to offer 737s at cost or below; which, since their full order books for all types will generate a strong cash flow for at least five years, Boeing can well afford to do. The effect of that will be to 'cut the A320 off at the pass.'

If A320s sales are weak after Fairborough . Then that should be a good indication if Boeing is , infact, going after the Jugular .

[Edit]
I'm sure Boeing is going in for the Kill for Airbus's only cash cow . We will see after Fairbrough how successful Boeing's campaign will be against the A320 !

Halibut

[Edited 2006-07-04 18:12:38]
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
manni
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airb

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 18):
Well , the 150 Chinese orders have !

Obviously someone had to throw in the Chinese orders again. Not surprisingly, you Halibut. The informed a.netter who has payed attention, has understood by now that Airbus placed the 150 Chinese orders on their orderbook the moment the Chinese Aviation Authority had placed a firm order with Airbus, no need to confuse them again with a cheap shot. You might confuse a first time reader, but to those readers... a bit of searching goes a long way.  Wink

Quoting Halibut (Reply 18):
However, how can any of the A350 orders be counted at all ? It is a aeroplane that does not exist !

Wrong. The A350 that has been pitched and for which a 100 firm orders have been placed, has at the moment not been cancelled. If you have any evidence to proof the contrary please provide it.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 18):
If A320s sales are weak after Fairborough .

1) I dont want to be picky but try to get atleast the name correct.

2) How do you identify 'weak'. Weak is a term that can subjectively be used even when they 'sell' a hundred aircraft. I suspect, wether Airbus lands commitments for 40, 50, 100, 125, 150 or 155 orders the verdict will be 'weak'.  Yeah sure

3) As someone rightfully pointed out in another thread (might have been NAV), we will most likely see announcements of various commitments for aircraft. There could be a few firm order announcements aswell.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 18):
I'm sure Boeing is going in for the Kill for Airbus's only cash cow .

And I'm sure Airbus is not going to stand at the side line watching it happen. They've (Boeing) let themselfes get 'raped' once (not my words but O'Leary's) in order to launch a big order, and Airbus was still able to pull ahead with the A320. As of this isn't enough, Airbus intends to 'NG' their A320 family in order to be even more competitive.
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Halibut
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 19):
Wrong. The A350 that has been pitched and for which a 100 firm orders have been placed,

Hi Manni,
It's good to see you finally realize that firm order commitments scam was just that , a scam & nothing more ! 200 hah ?  wink 

Quoting Manni (Reply 19):
If you have any evidence to proof the contrary please provide it.

Can you or any Airline that purchased the " ever changing " A350 , claim what type of A350 they will be purchasing ?

 eyebrow 

Quoting Manni (Reply 19):
2) How do you identify 'weak'. Weak is a term that can subjectively be used even when they 'sell' a hundred aircraft. I suspect, wether Airbus lands commitments for 40, 50, 100, 125, 150 or 155 orders the verdict will be 'weak'.

Nooo ! Com'om manni , stop that !

If Airbus is rackings mega amounts of orders for the A320 . I will state it as that . The point I was making , which you attempted to dodge . Was to the fact that Airbus is vulnerable now & Boeing knows that . So as NAV20 mentioned before , it would be wise for Boeing to capitalize on that . And going after Airbus's only cash cow ,at present , is a smart thing to do . Severely crippling Airbus's profits !

Boeing's 737 has out sold it's Airbus counterpart thus far this year . So if this trend continues & Airbus is unable to make up significant grow at Fairborough then it would appear that Boeing's strategy is working , which would be quite damaging to Airbus due to there "current" famine in there wide-body market .


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=20601087&sid=aSRWUrgKVIQA&refer=

Airbus, After 380 Crisis, Risks Becoming `Niche' Planemaker

Delays in the $13 billion A380 program have prevented management from focusing on a competitor for Boeing's mid-size 787. Without a plane in this category, Toulouse, France-based Airbus would cede a market worth an estimated $450 billion over the next 20 years to Boeing.

``Airbus is at risk of becoming a marginal, niche manufacturer in a couple of years unless they act now,'' says Richard Aboulafia, vice president of Teal Group, a Fairfax, Virginia-based consulting firm.



Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 20):
Boeing's 737 has out sold it's Airbus counterpart thus far this year . So if this trend continues & Airbus is unable to make up significant grow at Fairborough then it would appear that Boeing's strategy is working , which would be quite damaging to Airbus due to there "current" famine in there wide-body market .

If you check B737 sales for this year you'll probably find out most orders have been placed by existing B737NG customers. So if A320 operators start switching to the B737 then you may have a point.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
baroque
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 20):
``Airbus is at risk of becoming a marginal, niche manufacturer in a couple of years unless they act now,'' says Richard Aboulafia,

Paraphrasing Churchill, big niche, some margins. The original IIRC was some chicken, some neck. That could be relevant, it may be difficult to choke A quickly. Keeping up the metaphor, the chicken is probably not going to lie down either, well not after the recent blood letting
 
manni
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 20):

It's good to see you finally realize that firm order commitments scam was just that ,

This term was used by someone else, IIRC to 'upgrade' a commitment for a different manufacturer than the one we discussing here.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 20):
Can you or any Airline that purchased the " ever changing " A350 , claim what type of A350 they will be purchasing ?

Airlines have signed up for roughly US$ 17.5 billion worth of A350's, at list price.
Not one of them has cancelled a single aircraft. They must be very confident indeed, if all that is happening, without a true definition of what they've purchased.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 20):
Severely crippling Airbus's profits !


With fines worth US$ 1.1 billion whipping out all of the profits for the entire company this quarter, Boeing might be better of focussing on their own profits. Dumping 737's in order to win marketshare back from the A320, isn't really going to help their case.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 20):
Boeing's 737 has out sold it's Airbus counterpart thus far this year .

True. Note who bought the aircraft, and how many of them are current A320 operators and how many are current 737NG operators.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 20):
So if this trend continues & Airbus is unable to make up significant grow at Fairborough then it would appear that Boeing's strategy is working , which would be quite damaging to Airbus due to there "current" famine in there wide-body market .

That's a lot of domino stones that have to fall in the right direction at the right time.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 20):
Delays in the $13 billion A380 program have prevented management from focusing on a competitor for Boeing's mid-size 787. Without a plane in this category, Toulouse, France-based Airbus would cede a market worth an estimated $450 billion over the next 20 years to Boeing.

``Airbus is at risk of becoming a marginal, niche manufacturer in a couple of years unless they act now,'' says Richard Aboulafia, vice president of Teal Group, a Fairfax, Virginia-based consulting firm.



Aboulafia is a fantast, and quiet good at it. Hope he will keep just doing that and not become an aviation analyst.
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Stitch
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
Streiff is in the supervisory board of Continental (german tire-manufacturer ) and Thyssen steel. In those positions he has been a long-standing partner to Daimler-Chrysler, who have explicitely endorsed his choice. He is not so much a french manager but a global thinker and expert in multi-national production and management proceces. Defenitely not a Chirac-boy!

I was wondering how Germany might feel about having lost the CEO-ship of Airbus back to the French, since I believe Humbert was not in the position for long. However, it looks like he is a known and respected quantity to them.
 
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 21):
if you check B737 sales for this year you'll probably find out most orders have been placed by existing B737NG customers. So if A320 operators start switching to the B737 then you may have a point.

Agreed PH ,
We'll just have to wait & see !

Quoting Manni (Reply 23):
Airlines have signed up for roughly US$ 17.5 billion worth of A350's, at list price.
Not one of them has cancelled a single aircraft. They must be very confident indeed, if all that is happening, without a true definition of what they've purchased.

Confident about an aircraft that doesn't exist ?  eyepopping 

Bargin chip more like !  eyebrow 

And I'll take that as a big "No" to my question !

Quoting Manni (Reply 23):
With fines worth US$ 1.1 billion whipping out all of the profits for the entire company this quarter, Boeing might be better of focussing on their own profits.

I think like $615 million ! It's now behind them .

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/finan...GR00.htm?sub=apn_home_up%26chan=db

Quoting Manni (Reply 23):
Dumping 737's in order to win marketshare back from the A320, isn't really going to help their case.

Hah, well it helped Airbus's case some time ago . Which may I add , Airbus claimed to win more orders in 2005 . But , lost in dollar value ! Not saying that Boeing should follow Airbus . However, as mentioned before . Boeing can afford to some degree do that . Since they are doing so well in the "Bread & Butter" mid market not Airbus !

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 24):
I was wondering how Germany might feel about having lost the CEO-ship of Airbus back to the French, since I believe Humbert was not in the position for long. However, it looks like he is a known and respected quantity to them.

Germans don't have a problem with that current composition -since the man who runs the show is Tom Enders any how....
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airfrnt
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 23):
Airlines have signed up for roughly US$ 17.5 billion worth of A350's, at list price.
Not one of them has cancelled a single aircraft. They must be very confident indeed, if all that is happening, without a true definition of what they've purchased.

Sorry, they are actually saying the opposite of you. QR, EK and several others have raised issues, even US is saying that they are not worried one way or another if the take the A350 or not.. it doesn't matter. Hardly a ringing endorsement.
 
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 22):
The original IIRC was some chicken, some neck. That could be relevant, it may be difficult to choke

Do you know what "choking the chicken" means in American slang?

Hint: It's the same as "spanking the hamster".
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:15 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 25):
I think like $615 million ! It's now behind them .

Not suprisingly, it isn't exactely a hot item at airliners.net, but you can freshen up on it following the link I provided. The US$ 615 million is just one fine. There are others fines, combined with the US$615 in the US$ 1.1 billion range.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...006062901916.html?nav=rss_business

Quoting Halibut (Reply 25):
Which may I add , Airbus claimed to win more orders in 2005 . But , lost in dollar value !

Indeed, old news. However this has nothing to do with dumping, since these dollar values were calculated using listprices, but everything to do with the fact that Boeing sold far more widebodies than Airbus did.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 25):

Hah, well it helped Airbus's case some time ago

If Airbus did indeed dump A320's to buy marketshare a while ago, how do you explain their record profits in recent years?
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Halibut
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RE: Gallois And Streiff: The New Guys At EADS/Airbus

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 29):
If Airbus did indeed dump A320's to buy marketshare a while ago, how do you explain their record profits in recent years?

Hello again Manni,
If those profits were so significant . Then tell me , why is Airbus attempting to receive launch aid for the new all new , different but the same & new again A350 ???

Hhmm

 scratchchin 

Quoting Manni (Reply 29):
Indeed, old news. However this has nothing to do with dumping, since these dollar values were calculated using listprices, but everything to do with the fact that Boeing sold far more widebodies than Airbus did.

Thank you Manni for proving an earlier point I was making !  wink 

Why did Boeing sell more wide bodies ??? Most likely because Airbus's wide-body , mid-market is extemely weak & Boeing's strong . Which may en-able
Boeing to go after Airbus's cash cow [A320] , while still raking in the bucks in the "Bread & Butter" wide-body market . Old news , perhaps ? However , you appear to refuse to acknowledge Boeing's strong hand !

If Boeing can hurt Airbus's A320 sales , that will put a hurting on Airbus profits . However , to your credit as you said , many dominos will have to fall for that to happen .

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...ng+triumphs+in+twinjet+tussle.html

Whereas Boeing is viewed as an engineering-led company, Airbus is seen as being sales-led,¡± one chief executive of a 787 customer airline told Flight International recently. ¡°The 787 is superior...Airbus can compete by being cheaper.¡±

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !