dc10s4ever
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AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:15 am

With the near collaps of RG, AA is filing for additional frequencies to both GRU and GIG, not sure out of which cities. Possible MIA, JFK, and DFW?
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
With the near collaps of RG, AA is filing for additional frequencies to both GRU and GIG, not sure out of which cities. Possible MIA, JFK, and DFW?

Probably MIA and JFK. I doubt they will file for DFW.
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dc10s4ever
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:51 am

I would really love to see LAXGRU. With the large Japanese population in GRU, it could provide a real feed to AA's LAXNRT.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 2):
I would really love to see LAXGRU. With the large Japanese population in GRU, it could provide a real feed to AA's LAXNRT.

Very doubtful.

1) Brazilians need a Visa to transfer in the USA. Therefore most now go through Canada and Europe.
2) DFW-GRU feeds heavily into DFW-NRT (with mainly Japanese-originating passengers who do not need Visas).
3) Why does LAX-NRT need "real feed"? You are talking about Los Angeles and Tokyo here. There is no feed needed.

The fact remains that LAX-GRU is a low-yielding market that loss money for Varig after the Japan flights had to end.
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LVTMB
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:43 am

Do they have the equipment to add these flights? Where are they going to pull it from?

MB
 
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AA777223
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:43 am

Will there be some 777s pulled from European or other South American routes like the recent JFK-EZE upgrade? I would guess that would be the interm solution. This could be great for AA, I think they pull good yields on their Brazilian flights.
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 5):
Will there be some 777s pulled from European or other South American routes like the recent JFK-EZE upgrade? I would guess that would be the interm solution. This could be great for AA, I think they pull good yields on their Brazilian flights.

No, they are not pulling 777s. The JFK-EZE upgrade is temporary because AA has a spare 777 for this winter.

Any new flights will be 763s or 757s. Their winglet equipped 757s can get from Miami to any Brazilian city.
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ABK777
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:54 am

I was told that RG's non stop flight from LAX to GRU was actually a very profitable route. Is this not correct informaton?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting ABK777 (Reply 7):
I was told that RG's non stop flight from LAX to GRU was actually a very profitable route. Is this not correct informaton?

You're correct and this information was confirmed by RG staff and data room. LAX become one of the 3 only long-haul profitable routes on the entire RG network (FRA, LHR and LAX). The market is not low yield and could be explained by high tech companies, universities (during the last two years some University of California establish partnerships with the main business schools in Brazil. IIRC only UC Irvine staff travel 6 to 8 times during this year to both Rio and São Paulo), some pax to Asia (ANA provides LAX-NRT leg nowadays), and California is a very big market, also for cargo.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
With the near collaps of RG, AA is filing for additional frequencies to both GRU and GIG, not sure out of which cities. Possible MIA, JFK, and DFW?

Additional MIA (from GRU) and JFK (from GIG) flights only, concerning DFW AA announced some Weeks ago they will reduce the flights from 12x to 7x to increase GIG-MIA from 7x to 12x.

Felipe
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LX23
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Any new flights will be 763s or 757s. Their winglet equipped 757s can get from Miami to any Brazilian city.

Just as a small q: how many wingletted 757s do they have, and how easy would it be for them to do this? (Took the opportunity to ask, since you always know about these things)
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting ABK777 (Reply 7):
I was told that RG's non stop flight from LAX to GRU was actually a very profitable route. Is this not correct informaton?

After the Tokyo flights ended, the flight has not made money. There is a reason it has been suspended.
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LipeGIG
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
There is a reason it has been suspended.

With only 3 MD-11 and 1 763 (Varig grounded 772 VRI and will ground 772 VRJ in two days due to lessors request), let me know how RG can fly Frankfurt, London, Miami/New York and Los Angeles! The flight makes money, but the fleet reduction does not allow Varig to run LAX. Even during last week they flew LAX-GRU. Again, the info on the profits on LAX route was given on the data room, nothing can change this.
The flight to Tokyo was a money looser, not the dedicated flight to LAX.

Felipe
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
With only 3 MD-11 and 1 763 (Varig grounded 772 VRI and will ground 772 VRJ in two days due to lessors request), let me know how RG can fly Frankfurt, London, Miami/New York and Los Angeles! The flight makes money, but the fleet reduction does not allow Varig to run LAX. Even during last week they flew LAX-GRU. Again, the info on the profits on LAX route was given on the data room, nothing can change this.
The flight to Tokyo was a money looser, not the dedicated flight to LAX.

Then we will have to agree to disagree, because I have heard for trusted sources otherwise. Tokyo made money, a good amount of it, until the VISA restrictions started.

None the less, Los Angeles-Sao Paulo is not an important market, and one that AA will not be entering.

While not yet set in stone, I was told today that AA will likely be applying for seven emergency US-Brazil frequencies. MIA-GRU will go to 25x a week and JFK-GRU will go to 10x a week.
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LipeGIG
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Then we will have to agree to disagree, because I have heard for trusted sources otherwise. Tokyo made money, a good amount of it, until the VISA restrictions started.

I agree with you, before the new US Visa restrictions Tokyo was a money maker.
I disagree about LAX, the flight now is dedicated to California and also connections (thru ANA and UA), it was a surprise to me when i get the info that during the three months after the end of the NRT flight it become profitable (not so profitable as FRA and LHR in fact!)

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
While not yet set in stone, I was told today that AA will likely be applying for seven emergency US-Brazil frequencies. MIA-GRU will go to 25x a week and JFK-GRU will go to 10x a week.

As RG use to fly GRU-MIA and GRU-JFK, it become the replacement of those flights (or part of them), but GIG-JFK seems to be also a good idea, not served yet as a non-stop.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
As RG use to fly GRU-MIA and GRU-JFK, it become the replacement of those flights (or part of them), but GIG-JFK seems to be also a good idea, not served yet as a non-stop.

The market has good potential, but AA and Varig have tried it in the past (Varig twice in 18 months) to poor results. I think AA will play it safe and go for JFK-GRU, or maybe JFK-GIG in the winter and JFK-GRU in the summer. JFK-GIG is mort substainable as a winter-only route.
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baron95
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:03 am

Man I''d love to see JFK-GIG non-stop, I fly that route all the time - any idea when it may start?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Their winglet equipped 757s can get from Miami to any Brazilian city

Do you mean any Brazilian city currently served (GIG, GRU) or did you literaly mean that a 757 can make it to and from Miami to Porto Alegre non stop?
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 15):
Do you mean any Brazilian city currently served (GIG, GRU) or did you literaly mean that a 757 can make it to and from Miami to Porto Alegre non stop?

I meant any city, though POA is a little out of range, so I am wrong. The winglet 757s can do MIA-COR or MIA-CNF, though.
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LipeGIG
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
The market has good potential, but AA and Varig have tried it in the past (Varig twice in 18 months) to poor results. I think AA will play it safe and go for JFK-GRU, or maybe JFK-GIG in the winter and JFK-GRU in the summer. JFK-GIG is mort substainable as a winter-only route.

Mark, agree that is highly sustainable during the US winter/Brazilian summer, but GIG become an airport 3x bigger in connections, now with the same size of GRU on domestic pax. Also the success of MIA flights from Rio (AA will upgrade GIG from 7x to 12x weekly) could drive AA to try again this 3x weekly JFK additional flights from Rio non stop, year round. Varig tried in the past but just after Sept/11 and also when BRL/US$ rate was closer to 4 and GIG was not good for connections (main flights come to/from SDU).
Nowadays all flights from GIG are profitable, and some like AF, G3 and JJ are looking for more flights.
But as i agree with you, AA already have the market and connections provided by JJ, so they probably will fly to GRU.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 15):
Man I''d love to see JFK-GIG non-stop, I fly that route all the time - any idea when it may start?

Baron, GIG is growing a lot (100% over two years ago). I expect to see JFK-GIG in the future, but i believe not so soon.

Felipe

[Edited 2006-07-06 23:17:59]
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baron95
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
I meant any city, though POA is a little out of range, so I am wrong. The winglet 757s can do MIA-COR or MIA-CNF, though.

OK thanks. I'm still amazed that it can do MIA-GRU both directions year round. Pretty amazing for a narrow-body. What is the configuration of those planes as far as number of seats? Also I assume they don't have the same business class as the 763 currently flying MIA-GIG. May be tough to fly the 8 hours without near flat recline.

Thanks.
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LipeGIG
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
I meant any city, though POA is a little out of range, so I am wrong. The winglet 757s can do MIA-COR or MIA-CNF, though.

Mark, when you wrote COR (Cordoba, Argentina) you imagine CWB (Curitiba) ?
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 18):
OK thanks. I'm still amazed that it can do MIA-GRU both directions year round. Pretty amazing for a narrow-body. What is the configuration of those planes as far as number of seats? Also I assume they don't have the same business class as the 763 currently flying MIA-GIG. May be tough to fly the 8 hours without near flat recline.

The configuration is 168Y/20F. However, they are sold as 188Y on long-haul flights to Europe (BOS-MAN and BOS-SNN) because it is a domestic first product. AA would never use them to GIG or GRU though.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
Mark, when you wrote COR (Cordoba, Argentina) you imagine CWB (Curitiba) ?

No, I meant Cordoba, Argentina, a market AA has been eyeing at lately.
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commavia
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
The configuration is 168Y/20F.

Slight correction: AA's nAAtive 757s are configured F22Y166, not F20Y168.
 
bennett123
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:45 am

According to airfleets they have 142 B757.

I do not know how many have winglets. Is fitting them a problem.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 22):
According to airfleets they have 142 B757.

I do not know how many have winglets. Is fitting them a problem.

Twenty 757s have winglets. Fitting them is an easy process.
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baron95
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:11 am

What range increase do they gain with winglets? Is it needed for MIA-GIG?
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2travel2know
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Brazilians need a Visa to transfer in the USA. Therefore most now go through Canada and Europe.

Brazilians actually need visas for Canada, I do belive TWOV for Brazilians to/from an Asian city via Canada (YYZ and/or YVR) isn't allowed.

If AA (and all other U.S. Airlines flying to Brazil) would fly there with bigger planes (B747 type, if they had them available) to free slots, how much profitable would be to fly to CNF, SSA, FOR, REC maybe POA non-stop from MIA (and ATL if we're talking about DL)?
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baron95
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 25):
If AA (and all other U.S. Airlines flying to Brazil) would fly there with bigger planes (B747 type, if they had them available) to free slots, how much profitable would be to fly to CNF, SSA, FOR, REC maybe POA non-stop from MIA (and ATL if we're talking about DL)?

The think about the brazilian market, particularly places like SSA, REC, FOR, (even GIG), is that loads can and do jump around a lot based on time of the year, the exchange rate which has gone from 1:1 to 1:4 back to 1:2 in the last 4 years, even the crime headlines in Brazil affect loads.

I'd be very skeptical of putting anything bigger than a 772 on a route to Brazil. Certainly not a 747. I'd rather have more frequencies with 772 and 763 that I can adjust and move around based on the above factors.

I can't see an American airline putting 774s or 778s to Brazil. Maybe with the possible exception of MIA-GRU.
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Filing For Emergency Addtl Brazil Flts

Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 25):
If AA (and all other U.S. Airlines flying to Brazil) would fly there with bigger planes (B747 type, if they had them available) to free slots, how much profitable would be to fly to CNF, SSA, FOR, REC maybe POA non-stop from MIA (and ATL if we're talking about DL)?

AA could make a healthy profit flying 757s (and absolutely nothing larger) from secondary markets 3x a week to daily, depending on the market. Atlanta could probably do well with Salvador/SSA service 2-3x a week, but that's about it.
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