aaden
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Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:28 am

hi guys

there have been some thoughts on what a/c AA will be replacing it's md-80s with. and I was just wondering is there a possibility of AA placing an airbus order instead of a Boeing?
any input would be appreciated
 
atmx2000
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Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:31 am

What is this mysterious A20?  Wink

Seriously, relations between AA and Airbus aren't too hot.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
777STL
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Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:33 am

Slim and none, and slim's just left the building. With AA's history with Boeing, and after the debacle following Flight 587, I think it will be a very long time before AA begins to even consider Airbus.

In the short term, if AA's acquiring anything in that segment, they'll be taking their options on 738s anyway.
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727LOVER
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Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:33 am

Before someone mentions that CONTRACT.......it's voided!!!!


Still, the chances are quite remote....unless Airbus was selling them at 70% off the list price. Even then, the technology is getting old and I think AA is looking for newer technology.
Love Trumps Hate
 
mauriceb
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Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:34 am

Quote:
Seriously, relations between AA and Airbus aren't too hot.

...which is because both blame each other for the A300 crash 4 years ago in New York, caused by a failing rudder.
 
727LOVER
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Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Mauriceb (Reply 4):
which is because both blame each other for the A300 crash 4 years ago in New York, caused by a failing rudder.

Who did the NTSB blame?
Love Trumps Hate
 
EMBQA
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A20

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting AAden (Thread starter):
there have been some thoughts on what a/c AA will be replacing it's md-80s with.

Yes, it's called the Boeing 737-800

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Damon Marcus Lewis



They have around 125 on order, with only 77 delivered.

[Edited 2006-07-06 01:45:34]
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787engineer
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A20

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting AAden (Thread starter):
hi guys

there have been some thoughts on what a/c AA will be replacing it's md-80s with. and I was just wondering is there a possibility of AA placing an airbus order instead of a Boeing?
any input would be appreciated

Taking into consideration the poor relations between AA and Airbus, along with the fact that AA already operates a significant amount of 737NGs, I think there is zero chance (and I rarely make such absolute statements) that AA orders any A320s.
 
b6sea
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:39 am

Actually it's not a contract anymore it's a gentleman's agreement, which is still very very much in play between Boeing and AA and you can guess what it says... I believe AA said they wouldn't buy non-Boeing aircraft 'til 201x? something along those lines CO and DL have them too....

-Chans
 
sunking737
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:44 am

I know an insider at AA TUL MX. Boeing has a better chance then Airbus. AA is not happy with Airbus.
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D L X
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:55 am

So, who suggested deletion?

I'll say it again, spelled out this time:

American Airlines is to Airbus as US Airways is to Boeing. Bad blood with the manufacturers because of blame from a crash. AA will never buy Airbus.
 
Cactus739
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Sunking737 (Reply 9):
know an insider at AA TUL MX. Boeing has a better chance then Airbus. AA is not happy with Airbus.

and I know a girl who works with a guy who's sister dated a guy who's mother in law's 5th cousin flew AA once and knew that AA wasn't thrilled with Airbus......
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
N1120A
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
Who did the NTSB blame?

Nominally, the pilot, for the way he used the rudder. The issue at hand is that Airbus says it was AA's methods of pilot training that were at fault while AA says their pilot training was completely sufficient and that Airbus failed to tell them that the A300 had to be piloted differently.

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 11):
and I know a girl who works with a guy who's sister dated a guy who's mother in law's 5th cousin flew AA once and knew that AA wasn't thrilled with Airbus......

Oooh, looks like someone sampled a bit too much of his work product today  coffee   Silly
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jacobin777
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:02 am

IIRC...AA has money deposited with Boeing and they would probably stand to lose money on it.....
"Up the Irons!"
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:03 am

I would have to say there is pretty much NO chance. Airlines do not like to operate the A320 alongside the 737 (with good reason). It would complicate AA's operation to throw in another type. AA is dedicated in and has already made a huge investment in its fleet of 737's.
Good goes around!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:04 am

I'm surprised at all of you. The definitive answer is: No, because they can't fly them to Hawaii!  duck 
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Cactus739
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
I'm surprised at all of you. The definitive answer is: No, because they can't fly them to Hawaii!


AA doesn't use MD80's to Hawaii....... duh...

[Edited 2006-07-06 02:07:29]
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
Before someone mentions that CONTRACT.......it's voided!!!!

LOL.. Good catch. It was just a matter of time before someone brought that up.

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 11):
and I know a girl who works with a guy who's sister dated a guy who's mother in law's 5th cousin flew AA once and knew that AA wasn't thrilled with Airbus......

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 16):
AA doesn't use MD80's to Hawaii....... duh...

(Okay, so that one didn't work as planned.)  silly 
International Homo of Mystery
 
Tom12
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
Still, the chances are quite remote....unless Airbus was selling them at 70% off the list price. Even then, the technology is getting old and I think AA is looking for newer technology.

I agree. The A320 series is becoming dated.

I think it would be nice to see another member joining the A320 family with more modern technology, althow can't se that happening with Airbus's financial state.

Tom
"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting Tom12 (Reply 19):
I agree. The A320 series is becoming dated.

..and you have to wonder why the A320 family is out-selling the 737 family in the last couple of years!
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
777STL
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 20):
..and you have to wonder why the A320 family is out-selling the 737 family in the last couple of years!

Also makes you wonder what kind of profit yields Airbus is getting from said A320s.
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NAV20
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
Who did the NTSB blame?

In a word, everyone!

"3.2 Probable Cause -

'The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the in-flight separation of the vertical stabilizer as a result of the loads beyond ultimate design that were created by the first officer’s unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs. Contributing to these rudder pedal inputs were characteristics of the Airbus A300-600 rudder system design and elements of the American Airlines Advanced Aircraft Maneuvering Program."


A subsequent investigation (into the Air Transat rudder loss) recently raised the possibility that another contributing factor may have been weakening of the rudder structure due to contamination by hydraulic fluid.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 21):
Also makes you wonder what kind of profit yields Airbus is getting from said A320s.

Without it, A would be in waay more crap than they are in now... That's for sure.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:35 am

Unlike when UA was shopping the 734 vs. the A320, the A320 really doesn't bring anything so compelling vs. the 738 that AA would decide to place a large order for it instead of continuing on with the Boeing product.

Now, if the A320RS pantses Y1, that might change, but for the near-term, AA will continue to add 737NGs.
 
JAL
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:40 am

Why order the A320 when they could order more 737 which they already operates?
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TWAtwaTWA
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:45 am

AA is a very well run business, and they are not afraid of making tough decisions, like buying non-american planes. If airbus had a great option, AA would be seriously considering it. The A320 is dated, and Boeing has Y1 on the horizon, so AA will probably continue to take slow delivery of the 737NGs and roll over their orders to the new Y1 once it is released.

AA won't make any big decisions for a bit, and will wait for A and B to duke it out and produce the next generation of small twins. A/B competition is great for the airlines!
We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
 
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AA777223
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 26):
AA is a very well run business, and they are not afraid of making tough decisions,

Don't get me wrong, I'm about as big of an AA fan as I am any airline. I fly them often and am even an elite, but I have to say if they are such a well run business, they might have turned a profit by now. I also fear that sometimes those tough decisions involve certain choices at the expense of the customers satisfaction. You see, I have had my share of bad experiences on AA too.
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ikramerica
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting JAL (Reply 25):
Why order the A320 when they could order more 737 which they already operates?

Yep. There really isn't anything to debate here.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:02 am

The days when AA can order everything with 2 wings are long gone. Eventually their fleet will look like Boeing's next generation offerings.
Dear moderators: No.
 
aaden
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:23 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 20):
..and you have to wonder why the A320 family is out-selling the 737 family in the last couple of years!

by how much have they out sold boeing?
 
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zeke
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
Who did the NTSB blame?

The pilot, and dragged Airbus and AA in as contributing factors. End result, stop to stop rudder inputs by a pilot on any airliner would result in failure.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
I'm surprised at all of you. The definitive answer is: No, because they can't fly them to Hawaii!

You could fly a 320 to Hawaii, understand they been awarded FAA 180 min ETOPS approval.

Quoting Tom12 (Reply 19):
I think it would be nice to see another member joining the A320 family with more modern technology, althow can't se that happening with Airbus's financial state.

With 5-6 billion cash reserves, they are not in any trouble today or tomorrow.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 28):
Yep. There really isn't anything to debate here.

Average total block hour across operators in the USA for a 737-800/900 is $2,859 with an average of 151 seats.

http://www.aviaglobal.com/displayANe...s.asp?tfNewsId=8793&tfCountryId=AG

Average total block hour across operators in the USA for a MD80 is $2,762 with an average of 134 seats.

http://avisupser.dgrsolutions.com/cost/md80.html

Average total block hour across operators in the USA for a A320 is $2,516 with an average of 149 seats.

http://www.aviaglobal.com/displayANe...s.asp?tfNewsId=8795&tfCountryId=AG

These numbers are getting old, however I believe the ratios are still valid.

Assuming a fleet of 125 aircraft, 10 hrs average block hours over 350 days a year, with the average difference of US$343 per block hour would mean a difference of US$150 million in costs a year.

Putting national pride aside, that should be cause for serious consideration for any airline executive if they wish to remain competitive in toady's industry.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
jacobin777
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:11 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):

Average total block hour across operators in the USA for a 737-800/900 is $2,859 with an average of 151 seats.



Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
Average total block hour across operators in the USA for a MD80 is $2,762 with an average of 134 seats.



Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):

Average total block hour across operators in the USA for a A320 is $2,516 with an average of 149 seats.

You only give part of the story..(as usual)..since this thread is about AA, let's run AA's numbers...block hours for AA's 149 seat 737-800 is $2,453 (taken from the link which you provided)...

given your numbers here..

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
Assuming a fleet of 125 aircraft, 10 hrs average block hours over 350 days a year, with the average difference of US$343 per block hour would mean a difference of US$150 million in costs a year.

if one plugs AA's numbers, that would be a savings of lets see ($2516-$2453)*125*10*350=a savings of $27.56 million

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):

Putting national pride aside, that should be cause for serious consideration for any airline executive if they wish to remain competitive in toady's industry.

your right..AA's smart with sticking with the B737-800... checkmark 
"Up the Irons!"
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:22 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
These numbers are getting old, however I believe the ratios are still valid.

And you can find any number of industry sources citing better opperating cost for the 738.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
Putting national pride aside

One of the world's largest Rolls Royce customers is plauged by national pride? Heck, they opperate the 3rd largest A300 fleet in the world.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
that should be cause for serious consideration for any airline executive if they wish to remain competitive in toady's industry.

Interesting to note that the two strongest legacy airlines (AA, CO) are 737NG opperators, while two of the weakest (UA and NW) are A32X opperators. Do you think that is a fair anaylsis?

It would be beyond stupid for AA to order the A320 series for a myrid of reasons that has been listed in other threads.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
With 5-6 billion cash reserves, they are not in any trouble today or tomorrow.

Whatever your definition of "trouble" is, no one seriously denies that Airbus is in a whole. Their longhaul products have lost momentum and they have had incredible difficulty securing additional backlog.

Some people call having to revamp an entire product strategy "trouble," others don't.
 
Cactus739
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:33 pm

hey we need someone to comment on AA's livery on an A320....come on guys you know you want to....
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
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par13del
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
"Putting national pride aside"

I believe the United States is the largest operator of Airbus a/c, or pretty close to it, makes you wonder why the Americans have put aside their national pride.
 
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par13del
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:39 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
"Putting national pride aside"

I believe the United States is the largest operator of Airbus a/c, or pretty close to it, makes you wonder why the Americans have put aside their national pride.

Another point to consider, look at the problems B6 have had with fuel stops using their A320's. If AA replaces the Mad Dogs with B-737's they get an a/c which is almost as efficient doing the short hauls and provides a long haul component which the dogs do not have, with no added payload / range penalty.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
Putting national pride aside, that should be cause for serious consideration for any airline executive if they wish to remain competitive in toady's industry.

You ignore cost of replacing one fleet type with another vs. replacing one fleet type with an existing type, that right now, AA is forced to keep MD80s at certain hubs and 738s at other hubs and limit ops accordingly, while slowly moving to all 738s would free up their scheduling.

Not to mention that you can't really cite an average for A320 operators in the USA but lump the 738+739 together, when some LCCs (with lower costs) operate the A320 but no USA LCCs that I know of operate the 738 nor the more expensive to fly (due to higher capacity) 739, at least not in large numbers. 73Gs, you bet, 738s, the vast majority of those are flown by the higher operating cost majors, and those costs wouldn't go down to LCC level just by using an A320. (does AS count as an LCC? aren't they just a smaller legacy?)

Unless you can demonstrate that AA will have lower costs with an A320 under their cost structure than with the 738 in a meaningful way, then you don't have anything but someone interesting statistics.

But again, none of this matters because AA won't buy the A320. It's not up for debate.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
777STL
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting Par13del (Reply 35):
Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
"Putting national pride aside"

I believe the United States is the largest operator of Airbus a/c, or pretty close to it, makes you wonder why the Americans have put aside their national pride.

That's not saying much. The US is probably the most advanced country in the world in terms of air travel, heck, look we have 8-9 legacy airlines not to mention the incredibly successful LCCs we have. Based on the sheer number of airlines alone, we should be the largest operator of Airbi.

It all comes down to prices and the bottom line, Airbus can undercut Boeing. I won't get into why that's possible, but that's it.
PHX based
 
HPAEAA
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:04 pm

its interesting, because I heard a RUMOR that AA is looking for a buyer for their A300 fleet, the idea is to sell them off and purchase more 772s....
Why do I fly???
 
lincoln
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:28 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
Who did the NTSB blame?

I have a quote somewhere that is essentially

"If a giant casam opened up in the middle of a runway and sucked the plane in, the NTSB would still find a way to blame it on 'pilot error'"

When was the last NTSB report you read where the pilot wasn't at least listed as a contributing factor- "Well, yeah, one of the wings broke off, but the pilot still should have been able to land safely"

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 16):
AA doesn't use MD80's to Hawaii....... duh...

Talk about an uncomfortable flight, jeez, I think I'm going to have nightmares about that. Next someone would be suggesting flying RJs mainline to Hawaii...with a mid-pacific fuel stop on an aircraft carrier.

Lincp;m
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
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zeke
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 32):
You only give part of the story..(as usual)..

Oh please get off your high horse, I backed up everything I said with the source of my information.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 32):
if one plugs AA's numbers, that would be a savings of lets see ($2516-$2453)*125*10*350=a savings of $27.56 million

You have chosen the cheapest 738 operator and average 320 operator, cheapest 320 and cheapest 738, the 320 is 127 million ahead with 8 more seats. The stage lengths, fleet size, and fuel burns are comparable between the cheapest of both types.

I believe using the industry average was a fair comparison.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 33):
And you can find any number of industry sources citing better opperating cost for the 738.

Those numbers I used were from Part 41 returns, i.e. actual costs, not "industry sources".

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 33):
Interesting to note that the two strongest legacy airlines (AA, CO) are 737NG opperators, while two of the weakest (UA and NW) are A32X opperators. Do you think that is a fair anaylsis?

Not much, it is not the 320/737NG fleets which are bleeding these airlines. They are delivering good profits.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 33):
Whatever your definition of "trouble" is, no one seriously denies that Airbus is in a whole. Their longhaul products have lost momentum and they have had incredible difficulty securing additional backlog.

If Airbus were to not develop another aircraft, and just deliver its current backlog, its "Airbus's financial state" to which I was replying is strong. They have good assets, good cash in the bank, and a large backlog (2,177 aircraft, valued at $220 billion).

If they seek to develop new aircraft and use these cash reserves with no sales, then I would consider they would be in LONG TERM trouble.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 36):
I believe the United States is the largest operator of Airbus a/c, or pretty close to it, makes you wonder why the Americans have put aside their national pride.

They are up there, International Lease Finance Corporation is the largest Airbus customer by far, they are USA based. The top five would be Air France, Northwest, United, Lufthansa, Air Canada.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 36):
Another point to consider, look at the problems B6 have had with fuel stops using their A320's. If AA replaces the Mad Dogs with B-737's they get an a/c which is almost as efficient doing the short hauls and provides a long haul component which the dogs do not have, with no added payload / range penalty.

Its is not a year round problem as far as I am aware on the 320, my understanding it is when jet streams cannot be avoided. The winglets on the 320 are supposed to give B6 an additional range so this will no longer be a problem.

As far as I am aware not all 737NGs can do the trip either under the same conditions, they also need the blended winglets.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
jacobin777
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 37):

But again, none of this matters because AA won't buy the A320. It's not up for debate.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 32):

if one plugs AA's numbers, that would be a savings of lets see ($2516-$2453)*125*10*350=a savings of $27.56 million

taken his own numbers against him...as usual, he spins the story to his advantage...

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 39):
its interesting, because I heard a RUMOR that AA is looking for a buyer for their A300 fleet, the idea is to sell them off and purchase more 772s....

now that would rock!! I still don't think that will happen anytime soon...I'd rather see them place an order for the 787-3 to replace it... biggrin 
"Up the Irons!"
 
777STL
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 41):
Talk about an uncomfortable flight, jeez, I think I'm going to have nightmares about that. Next someone would be suggesting flying RJs mainline to Hawaii...with a mid-pacific fuel stop on an aircraft carrier.

The MD80s are more comfortable than the 757s AA currently uses to Hawaii. I've yet to fly on the A300s, but I'd imagine the 757 is the most uncomfortable plane in the fleet.
PHX based
 
ckfred
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
Before someone mentions that CONTRACT.......it's voided!!!!



Quoting B6sea (Reply 8):
Actually it's not a contract anymore it's a gentleman's agreement, which is still very very much in play between Boeing and AA and you can guess what it says... I believe AA said they wouldn't buy non-Boeing aircraft 'til 201x? something along those lines CO and DL have them too....

The contract is not voided. It is still very much in effect. The only change to the contract was the removal of the clause that made Boeing the sole supplier of aircraft for AA. The E.U. required Boeing to remove the clause from its contract with AA, as well as CO and DL, as a condition for approving the merger with McDonnell Douglas.

The contract runs for 20 years, starting in 1998 or 1999, and it gives AA rights to approximately 625 production slots. My understanding is that there are prices for then-existing models in the contract, as well as formulas for setting prices on new models.

I think AA has taken delivery of about 225 aircraft under this contract, so AA still holds the rights to 400 more produciton slots over the next 12 or 13 years.

Considering that AA has been trying to keep maintenance and training costs low, I can't see it ordering aircraft from the A320 line. Ordering Embrear 190s is a possibility, since AA management believes that it must replace the F100 at some point after it returns to consistant profitability.

As for replacing the MD-80s, a friend of mine is an AA pilot. The rumor, and its purely a rumor, is that AA will replace the oldest 40 to 60 MD-80s with the 47 737-800s that are still on order, and possibly a few more 737s. The older MD-80s flew a lot of short and medium-haul flights before AA started flying the MD-80 on longer routes, such as ORD-LAX and DFW-SEA, so those aircraft initially averaged more cycles per day.

As for the rest of the MD-80 fleet, the rumor is that AA will wait to see Boeing's replacement for the 737NG series.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 42):

Oh please get off your high horse, I backed up everything I said with the source of my information.



Quoting Zeke (Reply 42):
You have chosen the cheapest 738 operator and average 320 operator, cheapest 320 and cheapest 738, the 320 is 127 million ahead with 8 more seats. The stage lengths, fleet size, and fuel burns are comparable between the cheapest of both types.

you spun the data to suit your needs(I didn't say you didn't back up anything or were full of hot air)..you know every operator has different costs....yet you "conveniently" decided to not use AA's published numbers which clearly shows it has a cost advantage over your example.....I even took your numbers.......an average here basically means nothing given all the other larger variables.....

now are you going to try to tell me that AA would save more money if they switch fleets or added the A320 to their fleet?
"Up the Irons!"
 
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zeke
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 46):
now are you going to try to tell me that AA would save more money if they switch fleets or added the A320 to their fleet?

You seem to lack the ability to read, I will quote myself.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
Putting national pride aside, that should be cause for serious consideration for any airline executive if they wish to remain competitive in toady's industry.

No I dont think they will swap, however its is worth serious considering.

I did not "spin" the numbers, I have openly used average numbers for both fleets, that would have an average cost base. The cost base that AA currently operate under will increase in time as the aircraft come out of warranty.

You chose to compare the cheapest 738 operator to the average 320 operator, that in my view is spinning the numbers to suit your view.

It does not matter if you compare the most expensive, average, or cheapest with each type, the 320 comes out better by a large margin. One of the reasons why I think it has become the choice aircraft for newer operators in the USA.

As I said before

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
These numbers are getting old, however I believe the ratios are still valid.


[Edited 2006-07-06 07:09:56]
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
Cactus739
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 41):
Next someone would be suggesting flying RJs mainline to Hawaii...with a mid-pacific fuel stop on an aircraft carrier.

I forwarded your suggestion to Johnny O at Mesa and he said they're looking into it already....

 duck 
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:23 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
American Airlines is to Airbus as US Airways is to Boeing.

Sorry, but that was the OLD US Airways. I do believe that the new US still likes Boeing. Though HP phased out all their 737, they refused to give up their 757. So I don't think Boeing is an unconclusive "No" for US. (Yes, I know they say they are going all Airbus, but it's not a done deal yet)

Guess we will have to see what happens once all the dust settles. Somehow I think that some new Boeings will find their way into the US fleet..
Aiming High and going far..
 
dutchjet
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RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320

Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:29 pm

It is amazing how this rumor has spun out of control.......there was a rumor posted on another thread a few days ago (I wish that I could remember which one) stating that pilots at AA heard that Airbus made AA an offer to take 100 A32X aircraft (primarily A319s) at no cost for five years including free maintainance and training costs, in addition, AA would get 19 A319LRs for free and Airbus would take (whatever that meant) 100 of AA's oldest MD80s. I wish I could find the post - the poster himself had trouble believing the info he had heard as the terms of the deal were nothing short of outrageous. The deal would have been nothing short of financial suicide for Airbus; either someone was joking around or had a very good imagination. (Or was seriously looking for a way to put Airbus out of business.) I think that is where all of this started.

In any case, its exteremely unlikely that we will see any version of the A32X family flying in AA colors. Will AA and Airbus ever "kiss and make up" and/or will AA ever buy Airbus again? That remains to be seen - never say never in the airline world.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 45):
As for replacing the MD-80s, a friend of mine is an AA pilot. The rumor, and its purely a rumor, is that AA will replace the oldest 40 to 60 MD-80s with the 47 737-800s that are still on order, and possibly a few more 737s. The older MD-80s flew a lot of short and medium-haul flights before AA started flying the MD-80 on longer routes, such as ORD-LAX and DFW-SEA, so those aircraft initially averaged more cycles per day.

As for the rest of the MD-80 fleet, the rumor is that AA will wait to see Boeing's replacement for the 737NG series.

This sounds like what is likely to happen.