stl1326
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Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:27 am

Southwest airlines will add 4 daily non-stop flights between BWI and DTW starting Sept. 14. Good news for DTW, it seems like southwest never adds service in DTW. Here is the offical press release:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060706/dath009a.html?.v=2
 
travatl
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:34 am

Coincidence that AirTran just started the route a coupla months ago? I think not....

- Travis
 
toltommy
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:39 am

FL must be doing well on the flights, if WN suddenly decides to add some new service at DTW. I'll stick with AirTran. The $35 upgrades are nice.
 
burnsie28
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:41 am

Either way, ill stick with the airline that can get me more places... NW.
 
stl1326
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Travatl (Reply 1):
Coincidence that AirTran just started the route a coupla months ago? I think not....

I didn't even know that AirTran was running the route. No wonder Southwest all a sudden has some interest in DTW.
 
travatl
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:50 am

Yeah, in addition to BWI-DTW, AirTran also brought back BWI-DFW and BWI-MKE....
 
PVD757
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:10 am

so much for the mythical 'gents agreement' between WN and NW - look out MSP...
 
toltommy
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
Either way, ill stick with the airline that can get me more places... NW.

At least until the 17th..... I'll stick with the one that can get me where I actually need to go!
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:31 am

It was only a matter of time before WN added this market. DTW was one of the few cities in their system that didn't connect well to a portion of the network, i.e. to get to the Northeast you had to connect through BNA.

Unfortunately for Airtran, they waited too long to start this route. They should have started it years ago before WN finished the new terminal at BWI. WN had more opportunities out of BWI than they had gates, and DTW clearly was far down the list because of the NW factor. Instead of beginning the service when they first started expanding out of BWI (in 2000 and 2001), Airtran waited and waited.

Now they have to contend with both NW and WN .... not the best scenario since Airtran prefers to only go up against WN, head-to-head, on highly elastic routes to places like Florida.
 
chris133
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Stl1326 (Reply 4):
I didn't even know that AirTran was running the route. No wonder Southwest all a sudden has some interest in DTW.

It wasn't sudden at all. This route has been needed for many years. but as stated above,

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 8):
WN had more opportunities out of BWI than they had gates



Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 8):
Unfortunately for Airtran, they waited too long to start this route

There was just not enough space to get everything at once. I do think that AirTran waited to long to start that route. Who knows what non-stops will be next out of BWI
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:56 am

BWI-DTW does indeed seem totally obvious - in fact, it was a no-brainer, at least in appearance. But is four-times-daily sufficient?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:09 am

Ditto to what SeeTheWorld said.

We'll see if AirTran remains on the route. Remember that they announced IAD-BOS 4x daily after Independence Air shut down in January. After JetBlue subsequently announced entering the route, AirTran withdrew without ever having begun flights.

WN currently runs 8x daily on BWI-MDW; Chicago's metro area is about twice the population of the Detroit area. Four dailies each on WN and FL might be more than the route can support. It'd be great to see both carriers do well on BWI-DTW alongside NW, but it might not happen.

Spirit's DTW-DCA shouldn't suffer, because of the desirability of DCA and their low frequency (2x daily).

Jim

[Edited 2006-07-06 22:11:29]

[Edited 2006-07-06 22:12:04]
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:14 am

I would say that WN is out to saturate and destroy the revenue on this route and push FL out of it. Unless FL changes course from previous decisions they will fold this route and move on to find another route instead of going up against WN.

I still say that eventually FL will have to go head to head against WN. They continue to receive a/c and they cannot keep finding routes where WN and B6 are not servicing. This may be the route but I doubt it, I give FL two months and they will quietly cancel this service.

Just my .02
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
quickmover
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 11):
Remember that they announced IAD-BOS 4x daily after Independence Air shut down in January. After JetBlue subsequently announced entering the route, AirTran withdrew without ever having begun flights.

I see what you are saying, but the difference here is that Airtran is already operating the route. Southwest won't start service until September, so already being established in the city pair should help. If the flights are going out full now, I can't see a mass exodus of passengers to WN for any reason once WN starts the route.

Profitability might be another matter, but we'll see.

Does anyone know how well FL is doing on this route? System wide LF is bumping 80%, so it can't be doing too bad.
 
FI642
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:26 am

WN has wanted to go to DTW from BWI for a long time. Now is the perfect time. NW is probably not going to fight back like they would have before their
chapter 11 filing.

Another dot on the WN map is now connected! GO SOUTHWEST!
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
PVD757
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:45 am

I really think this was simply overdue - WN will add the service if they can make money on the route - they have proven themselves as not being a knee-jerk reactor to route planning like other carriers. This was an obvious missing line in the network and is long overdue IMHO. FL being on the route is just a plain fact/coincidence. Think of the connections available to DTW from RDU/ORF/PVD/MHT/BDL/ISP, etc. - none of which have any 'low fare' nonstop service - in fact are all monopoly markets by NW. WN will erode a few people away from the NW flights at all these places and fill the flights via BWI - and make money to boot.
 
ssides
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DT

Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting Stl1326 (Thread starter):
it seems like southwest never adds service in DTW.

I always found it interesting that WN doesn't serve LAS non-stop from DTW. It's one of only a handful of WN cities that doesn't get non-stop service to LAS.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
airmailer
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 7):
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
Either way, ill stick with the airline that can get me more places... NW.

At least until the 17th..... I'll stick with the one that can get me where I actually need to go!

Exactly, if they survive past the 17th.
Even if NW does avoid a strike, WN is just a smidge away from flying more passenger miles than them, so domestically at least, WN will be able to get you more paces.
.. and who knows what TZ may be able to offer up once the WN res. system is upgraded.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:19 am

Well, FL offers a higher quality domestic coach product than both NW and WN, so hopefully fliers in the market will take advantage of this. I think we'll see FL hang in there as long as there's money to be made. The executives of FL aren't stupid enough to compete on a route where there's more money to be lost than made.
 
airmailer
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 12):
I would say that WN is out to saturate and destroy the revenue on this route and push FL out of it. Unless FL changes course from previous decisions they will fold this route and move on to find another route instead of going up against WN.

I still say that eventually FL will have to go head to head against WN. They continue to receive a/c and they cannot keep finding routes where WN and B6 are not servicing. This may be the route but I doubt it, I give FL two months and they will quietly cancel this service.

Just my .02

I hate to rain on your parade here DeltaDAWG, but I wouldn't go dancing in the street on this one yet.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):
Well, FL offers a higher quality domestic coach product than both NW and WN, so hopefully fliers in the market will take advantage of this. I think we'll see FL hang in there as long as there's money to be made. The executives of FL aren't stupid enough to compete on a route where there's more money to be lost than made.

 checkmark  XM Satellite in every seat is a big plus for longer hauls when you are in the back.

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 2):
FL must be doing well on the flights, if WN suddenly decides to add some new service at DTW. I'll stick with AirTran. The $35 upgrades are nice.

 checkmark 
... and paying $35 so that you aren't in the back in the first place is even nicer!

Just thinking off the top of my head here...
I don't know if FL is using the 737s on this leg, but if they are, they could always cut back to the 717s.
Otherwise I think that if anyone had to cut service on this route it might be NW.
Remember that the people living in Baltimore/ Suburban Marayland are not all that into 'WorldPerks', so at least half of the traveling equation wouldn't care either way; and WN connects to almost every market that they serve in the U.S. from BWI.

I may end up eating my words here but I highly doubt that FL would end up pulling more than maybe 1 R/T per day... and I definitely don't see them pulling the whole route at all.
 
iowaman
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting FI642 (Reply 14):
NW is probably not going to fight back like they would have before their
chapter 11 filing.

Don't kid yourself.  Wink

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 10):
But is four-times-daily sufficient?

For starters and with FL already on this route, I would think so, if not more than enough.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 16):
I always found it interesting that WN doesn't serve LAS non-stop from DTW. It's one of only a handful of WN cities that doesn't get non-stop service to LAS.

With NW, HP, and NK on this route as well as frequent Champion charters it's a very well served route. You might see it someday however, CLE just got a daily N/S to LAS on WN.

Quoting AirMailer (Reply 19):
Otherwise I think that if anyone had to cut service on this route it might be NW.

Riiight, more like capacity dumping with 75's.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting AirMailer (Reply 19):
I don't know if FL is using the 737s on this leg

FL is using 717's on this route, but with anywhere between 13 and 18 new 737's coming on line ever year over the next several years, chances are you'll see a 73G sooner or later.
 
spartanmjf
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
Either way, ill stick with the airline that can get me more places... NW.

"Ding - You are free to go with WN, the airline that can and WILL get you across the country."
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
travatl
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:20 am

Quoting AirMailer (Reply 19):
Otherwise I think that if anyone had to cut service on this route it might be NW.

Never happen....

Unfortunately, NW, like other legacies, puts "market share" before profitability (and common sense). So their kneejerk reaction is typically to flood a threatened market with capacity. (AA is the king of this practice, but NW runs a very close second, with the remaining legacies tied for third). Sometimes it works (AA ran FL out of DFWLAX), but usually it just bleeds more from already frail balance sheets....
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:31 am

This route comes as no surprise as everyone else has mentioned. Everyone wondered why WN hadn't done this sooner, and it was obvious that WN wasn't going to let AirTran fly this without competition. Also, when DH folded, it took away the low-fare capacity into the BWI/DC Metro area.

This will be interesting, since 4x seems like an awful lot of capacity for WN to start a new route from DTW, considering they only had 17 daily flights in the first place. I would've thought you would have seen 2x daily, not 4.

This, in conjunction with AirTran's 3 flights, will add 7 additional flights to BWI, along with NW's 7-9 daily depatures. Something will have to give on this route at some point.
 
stlgph
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 8):
Now they have to contend with both NW and WN .... not the best scenario since Airtran prefers to only go up against WN, head-to-head, on highly elastic routes to places like Florida.



Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 12):
I still say that eventually FL will have to go head to head against WN. They continue to receive a/c and they cannot keep finding routes where WN and B6 are not servicing. This may be the route but I doubt it, I give FL two months and they will quietly cancel this service.

Indianapolis, anyone?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
airmailer
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RE: Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW

Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
Never happen....

Unfortunately, NW, like other legacies, puts "market share" before profitability (and common sense). So their kneejerk reaction is typically to flood a threatened market with capacity. (AA is the king of this practice, but NW runs a very close second, with the remaining legacies tied for third). Sometimes it works (AA ran FL out of DFWLAX), but usually it just bleeds more from already frail balance sheets....

I can see that you haven't been keeping up with current events.

DL, and NW have slashing domestic over-capacity left and right.
(There was even a thread on NW cutting over-capacity in the past week.)

NW might be successful taking on just FL in a given market, but FL and WN.. NW doesn't stand a chance.
WN has patience and fuel hedges; they have time to smoke out NW.
FL has very low costs, some on this board have even said lower than WN. That being said, I doubt that these will duel each other (I would hope that they would be smarter than that).

And if NW did retaliate, that could seriously backfire on them. WN could start adding flights in NW markets left and right; with all of the jets that WN is getting in the next couple of months retaliation could turn out to be very painful for NW.
A better play for NW would be to not draw attention to themselves.

.. that's my opinion.