planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:17 am

Hello kids,

I was just reading the wikipedia article on Air Koryo, the state-owned airline of North Korea.

It certainly appears to be one of the smallest national-flag airlines, having at most (according to the article) 19 aircraft available for scheduled and charter service. It doesn't appear that they offer any daily flights; most destinations appear to get at most 3x/week. Notable destinations include Beijing (3x/week), Bangkok (1x/week), Vladivostok (1x/week), and Shenyang (2x/week).

The aircraft list list is a venerable "who's who" of antique soviet airliners, including the IL-62 (4), Tu-134 (2), An-24 (5) and Tu-154 (4).

It is not allowed to fly anywhere in the EU, and does not have an "air operators" certificate.

So basically, does anyone have any personal experience with the airline, or any other experience or knowledge about aviation inside the DPRK...I imagine the military controls the airspace much the same way as in China.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
bennett123
Posts: 7426
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:43 am

Looking at the photo gallery, pictures have been posted by 4 people.

I doubt if many carriers fly to North Korea, and I understand that you can not drive there.
 
fly2yyz
Posts: 643
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:46 am

Actually there is a trip report on Skytrax, if I remember correctly the passenger mentions that there were no FA Jumpseats and they were holding on to galley walls and handles with dear life...
 
Hardkor
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2001 1:51 pm

RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:47 am

check flightlevel350.com, they have some videos of flights in the Il-62 to Beijing I believe. would be an interesting experience, I think I'd prefer a train in that situation
Hardkor
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 2):
I doubt if many carriers fly to North Korea, and I understand that you can not drive there

Thats correct, there are only two ways in or out for tourists (US Citizens are normally banned and you must be in a tour, no individual travel allowed); the flight from PEK which can be any type of their aircraft, or a 22 hour train ride from Beijing Central Station, a couple of international carridges are linked to the back of a regional train, and these then continue accross the border under North Korean haulage.

I think I'm correct in saying that Air Koryo used to have a flight to Berlin, or somewhere in Germany and they have also served Macau. A couple of times airlines such as Asiana have flown into Pyonyang as special charters to re-unite some families which were seperated after the war.

Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
manni
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 2):
I understand that you can not drive there.

It is possible to book a trip to North Korea from South Korea. These organised tours bring you to the apparently beautifull national parks just across the border by coach, and cater mainly to foreigners (non South Koreans) and international students.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
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LTU932
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 5):
I think I'm correct in saying that Air Koryo used to have a flight to Berlin, or somewhere in Germany and they have also served Macau.

Service by Air Koryo to Berlin might have been possible if it was to East Berlin (specifically SXF). I doubt TXL and THF were ever on the agenda for them.

Quoting Planespotting (Thread starter):
It is not allowed to fly anywhere in the EU, and does not have an "air operators" certificate.

It's amazing how JS can even operate without an AOC, or even operate at all.
 
Pulkovokiwi
Posts: 627
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:44 am

I spose its for those folks who have to tell there friends at the Country Club that they have been to every country. How sad ! What possible interest would it have to any non-Korean? You would be followed everywhere,your room would be bugged ,the food would be crap etc.etc.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
manni
Posts: 4049
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 7):
I thought it was the other way around. The "tour" to North Korea is run by Hyundai, with special permission of the North Korean government. It's limited to a national park across the 38th parallel and only South Koreans are allowed on the tour. Here's a link from Der Spiegel....

Thanks for the link. It was my impression that these tours mainly cater to foreigners, as I know several foreigners living in SK (I'm a foreigner myself residing in SK) who've taken the tour and when I asked about other participants the general answer was thet they're mainly foreigners aswell. thinking about it, English spoken guided and Korean spoken guided tours might be the explanation.

It is encouraging to see the apparent succes of these tours, as descriped in your link. Hopefully oneday peace will reunite the 2 Koreas and let he North Koreans enjoy the freedom and prosperity as in South Korea.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
Pulkovokiwi
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:49 am

Manni-don't hold your breath!
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
ualcsr
Posts: 348
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
It is encouraging to see the apparent succes of these tours, as descriped in your link. Hopefully oneday peace will reunite the 2 Koreas and let he North Koreans enjoy the freedom and prosperity as in South Korea.

Although you're obviously closer than I am to NK, I'm somewhat of a Korea-phile (just interested in the country, not agreeing to the system in any way) and have read some good books on daily life in NK, especially Pyongyang. If you're interested in some titles, send me a pm and I'll forward those names on to you.
 
fly2yyz
Posts: 643
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:28 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 9):
I spose its for those folks who have to tell there friends at the Country Club that they have been to every country. How sad ! What possible interest would it have to any non-Korean? You would be followed everywhere,your room would be bugged ,the food would be crap etc.etc.

Infact I hear that the food that tourists are served is actually quite good. Fresh produce and meats etc. For foreign tourists its a nostalgia factor to go to the world's most "dangerous" nation. And for South Koreans its a way to see the way our brothers and sisters live in the north, be closer to the loved ones that still are alive without being selected to meet your relatives through red cross organized unifications, and seeing sights that are sacred to Koreans in general, like Diamond Mountin (Geumgang-san) or Paektu Mountain on the northern frontier. So... in reality.. its not SAD!
 
centrair
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:19 pm

I know that Air Koryo did a charter once to NGO.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kyohei Yamamoto



Don't know why it would have come here, but it did.

I was looking at Pyongyang on Google Maps. You actually can get a pretty good view. But I can't find Pyongyang airport. Even though it is blurry around the outskirts of the city, you should be able to make out an airport.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
cha747
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:37 pm

I looked on Google maps - is the airport north of the city; two runways arranged "on top" of one another when looking at a map. If it is the airport that I am seeing, the southern tip of the "top" or northern runway is connected by a taxiway that runs over a small body of water (river/creek) that meets the northern tip of the "bottom" or southern runway. Perhaps it's something else but it sure does look like an airport with the 2 runways measing several miles long each.
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
bennett123
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:45 pm

Has anyone here actually been there.
 
dogfighter2111
Posts: 1867
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:00 pm

This is P'yongyang Airport:



I found it to the North of the City.

Thanks
Mike
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:16 pm

There have been a number of quite good threads about North Korean aviation over the years. The user Swissgabe in particular seems quite knowledgeable on the subject.

I'd particularly recommend looking at these ones:
How Much Air Traffic Does North Korea Have? (by Wdleiser Feb 20 2006 in Civil Aviation) Is Filming Planes In North Korea Legal? (by Alberchico Mar 28 2005 in Civil Aviation) North Korea's Air Koryo (by QuestAir Jan 5 2005 in Civil Aviation) Pyongyang Airport, North Korea (by Ams May 30 2004 in Civil Aviation)

These ones also have some decent information in them:
Again A Foreign Carrier Into North Korea (by Swissgabe Mar 21 2005 in Civil Aviation) North Korean Aviation (by LanAlemania Nov 13 2004 in Civil Aviation) Flights Over North Korea? (by Ilovenz Sep 20 2004 in Civil Aviation) North Korean Airspace (by 9A-CTK Jun 3 2004 in Civil Aviation) Airlines Serving North Korea (by Ryu2 Jun 23 2003 in Civil Aviation) Foreign Airlines In North Korea (by Airmale Feb 4 2003 in Civil Aviation) Does North Korea Have An Airline? (by 727LOVER Jun 2 2002 in Civil Aviation) Air Koryo (by Vw Mar 18 2002 in Civil Aviation) N. Korea Want 10 Daily ICN-FNJ-PEK (by Jiml1126 Mar 17 2002 in Civil Aviation)

I hope these are useful - obviously some of the older ones may have dated a little bit by now.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 11):
And for South Koreans its a way to see the way our brothers and sisters live in the north, be closer to the loved ones that still are alive without being selected to meet your relatives through red cross organized unifications

From what I've read, South Korean tourists in North Korea are kept away from the rest of the population for just that reason. There was a story of a South Korean woman being detained for simply asking her North Korean tour guide if they'd ever thought about coming to South Korea to see what it's like. Sad.

777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
planespotting
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 16):
I hope these are useful - obviously some of the older ones may have dated a little bit by now.

I searched before posting this thread for at least 15 minutes, trying different letter/word combinations to see if there were any other threads that had "North Korea" in the title...it found nothing.


Thanks for those though! lots of info.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:07 am

Air Koryo used to fly to SXF (They used to have something like an embassy office in Berlin's Chinese embassy) with IL-18 and IL-62, which were both something like combi freighters (not many passengers flying to NK).
I used to work as a forklift operator in SXF cargo department (before my apprenticeship), where we had to areas in our stores, one for Cuba (Cubana also flew to SXF) and one for North Korea. While the Cuban cargo mostly consisted of industrial machines and spare parts, plus industrial chemicals and pharmaceuticals, the cargo for North Korea consisted mostly of German made expensive brandname household appliances and spare parts for German build luxury cars (especially parts getting damaged in accidents, like bumpers and fenders), plus the occasional Mercedes Benz or BMW. This raised some eyebrows, since officially in NK private ownership of cars is forbidden. I guess in NK, like in the GDR, some people are more equal than others.

Once though, during my apprenticeship with LH in SXF, a Koryo crew "rescued" me. I was sent out in the middle of graveyard shift to check the cargo holds of a LTU B757. It was a quite stormy night, and while I was inside the aft cargo hold a gust of wind blew over my ladder. I was alone outside, on an empty ramp and the 757 cargo hold is a little too high to jump out off.
After about one hour a crew arrived at the Koryo IL-62, which was parked on the next stand. I shouted and waved my arms until some grinning North Koreans came over and put the ladder back into position.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
aviasian
Posts: 1244
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:10 am

I had the opportunity to visit North Korea in 2004 and flew Air Koryo from Beijing to Pyongyang and back.

Service onboard Air Koryo was adequate - none of the fancy trimmings. The IL-62 I flew on (P-881) was pristine on the outside and inside. The flights and the landings were extremely smooth.

Regarding the comments posted earlier about being followed, bugged etc . . . I think one should print such comments only if one has visited the country and personally felt that this happened.

I did not think so . . . and we were able to make last minute changes to our programme whenever we saw something we liked - including stopping in places to mingle with the locals.

As was also pointed out, the food was actually quite good.

This is a poor nation . . . and little is wasted. Even as we were there just before the end of autumn, yet another crop of rice was ripening. Amazingly clean country with extensive under-utilised highways . . . very interesting attractions. For me, the communist billboards all over the country were very colourful and very interesting . . . reminds one of Vietnam and China prior to their being more open.

I had the opportunity to chat with other tourists - including Swiss, Germans, Singaporeans and Japanese . . . and they too had flexibility in their day to day programmes, were not confined to their hotels (the Hangagdo Hotel which is located on an island on the river). I am not saying that these things do not happen or that they do . . . when visiting any country, just have an open mind.

You may be positively surprised. It was one of the most memorable destinations I have visited.

KC Sim
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
This raised some eyebrows, since officially in NK private ownership of cars is forbidden. I guess in NK, like in the GDR, some people are more equal than others.

Yes, I think the people in power (the guvnors  Wink) are allowed more privileges than others.
The 'dear leader' is thought to be a keen surfer of the internet, and also has a stock of over 20,000 videos, he is a keen follower of basketball.
While out side, 80% of the population starve  Sad

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1500
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 1):
and I understand that you can not drive there

You mean over the 38th parallel from South Korea? I reckon you CAN. You'll just be blown up so not a single molecule of you nor the car remains. They have heavy guards in that area. But still there are substantial amounts of people that escape from the North and make it to the South or the other way up to China and run into embassies.

Quoting Aviasian (Reply 20):
I did not think so . . . and we were able to make last minute changes to our programme whenever we saw something we liked - including stopping in places to mingle with the locals.

I am suprised that you had so much freedom. But hey, it's North Korea. They make a lot of their foreign currency money from tourism now. So they have to be nice or nobody would come back again.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
planenutz
Posts: 1156
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RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:56 am

As I understnad it, the flights to Vladivostok are charters for contract North Korean timber workers. The flights to Shenyang are even more ominous as they are beleived to be used to repatriate North Korean citizens who have escaped in the hope of transiting to third countries.

The service to Macau was a result of North Korean financial and trade ties. North Korea uses Macau based banks for its foreign currency transactions, and also uses Macau as a jumping off point for imnportation of luxury goods that can only be purchased with hard currency. In fact, the regular IL-62 flights were mostly cargo, with little or no passengers.

At tits height, Air Koryo operated flights to both SVO and SXF. Suffice to say, the only regularly scheduled flights are to PEK and irregulalry (I think ever other week) to Macau. Reports are that most of the Air Koryo fleet is nonoperational and on the tarmac at Pyongyang.

I visisted the Air Koryo sales ofice in Beijing last May. It was stark and very plain, and a lot of securoty guards. Nothing was on offer, and I have a feeling they work mostly with tour groups originating in Beijing rather than selling tickets to individual passengers. I also tried to visit their office at Beijing Capital Airport, but it was closed. The MIAT employee in the office next door told me that they were only open on days of operation, and even then only for a couple of hours before flight time.
Not all who wander are lost....
 
dfwmzuri
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:34 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 22):
They make a lot of their foreign currency money from tourism now.

A news report last night said they make a lot of their foreign currency (US $100 bills) by counterfit means!
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 22):
They make a lot of their foreign currency money from tourism now.

And selling nukes and long range missles to boot.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
MichiganMAN
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:47 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:57 am

I have done a lot of research on North Korea, and would one day like to go to see the mass gymnatic displays they have at the May Day stadium for which they allow US citizens to attend (or so the travel agencies say)

Here is a travelogue.......
http://www.yunkai.de/stories/northkorea/page1/northkorea1.html
UK -> USA
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting Aviasian (Reply 20):
I had the opportunity to chat with other tourists - including Swiss, Germans, Singaporeans and Japanese . . . and they too had flexibility in their day to day programmes, were not confined to their hotels (the Hangagdo Hotel which is located on an island on the river). I am not saying that these things do not happen or that they do . . . when visiting any country, just have an open mind.

There is a trip report floating on the internet (FlyerTalk, maybe?) by a man from the UK who went. He was closely guarded.

DPRK would be interesting to see, but I personally wouldn't go (even if US citizens were allowed in) simply because of the way Kim Jong Il treats his people. I wouldn't want my tourist money going to a harsh dictator.

AAndrew
 
Sukhoi
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:03 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:32 am

Seats for 12-22 Aug 2006 are still availble I don´t know if Americans are allowed but send your request for joining the tour to to http://www.korea-dpr.com/kfa2006/august2006delegation.htm

Sukhoi
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 27):
There is a trip report floating on the internet (FlyerTalk, maybe?) by a man from the UK who went. He was closely guarded.

There is this trip report, it's very interesting.
http://1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-trip1.htm~mainframe

Basicaly, you can't breath without permision, no talking to locals, no critisizing the leader etc

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:13 am

Here are some pictures of Air Koryo's catering courtesy of Airlinemeals.net:







Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 22):
But hey, it's North Korea. They make a lot of their foreign currency money from tourism now.

Its the "garden spot" of the Pacific!

Quoting DFWMzuri (Reply 24):
A news report last night said they make a lot of their foreign currency (US $100 bills) by counterfeit means!

I heard they passed $50M in counterfeit $100 and $50 bills through a bank in Macau. When they got caught and the bank refused the money, they requested that it be returned.
 
planenutz
Posts: 1156
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:50 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:08 pm

Its a well known "secret" that North Korea engages in the production of counterfeit US $100 bills. They are called "superdollars" becasue according to the US Secret Service (the law enforcement agency responsible for investigating counterfeit currency in the USA) they are most accurate and lifelike of any other counterfeit attempts.

US media hasn't really covered this issue very much, but a few years ago there was a great episode of the BBC program "Panorama" that documented the activity.

It is suspected that this is one of the reasons Air Koryo serves Macau. Apparently, North Korea will ship the counterfiet US dollars with diploments in their diplomatic bags, which are not subject to search by customs or police. They are then converted to real US dollars. One of the ways that this was done was by Air Koryo flying the counterfeit currency to Macau and distributing them to the many North Korean front companies that are registered there. They would then be converted to real dollars at banks in Macau. The hard currency would then be used to purchase luxury items to be shipped back to North Korea by Air Koryo. Purchases usually include liqour and clothes, but also spare auto parts, small technological items, jewelrey, etc
Several Macau banks are not allowed to do business with or in the USA because of these activities.

Macau is a lot like Switzerland, in that it allows for anonymous, numbered bank accounts. So investigators can't trace the counterfeit currency to its source. Its all complicated and very kniving.
Not all who wander are lost....
 
SAS333
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:09 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:04 am

How sad for Air Koryo being not allowed to fly over or into countries of the European Union. I am sure according to the money-transactions they would be a frequent guest in Zurich or Geneve, too.
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 30):

Doesn't look bad !, wonder if you can get a can of coke on Air Koryo  Wink

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 22):
So they have to be nice or nobody would come back again.

I hear, that if you are kind to your tour guid, that they might take you to places that they don't normaly show.

Quoting Planenutz (Reply 23):
At tits height, Air Koryo operated flights to both SVO and SXF

Did North Korea have strong links (like they have with China) with the USSR ?

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 34):
Did North Korea have strong links (like they have with China) with the USSR ?

Yes, very strong, from what I understand. Cuba and DPRK's economy were hit hard after the USSR fell and USSR aid money stopped flowing.

AAndrew
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 35):
Yes, very strong, from what I understand. Cuba and DPRK's economy were hit hard after the USSR fell and USSR aid money stopped flowing.

I think most communist countries were aidded by the USSR, Vietnam for example  Smile

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 36):

I think most communist countries were aidded by the USSR, Vietnam for example Smile

Then why did you ask?

AAndrew
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 37):
Then why did you ask?

AAndrew

I was just wondering if North Korea was one of the countries aided by them, and if they had a 'special' relationship.

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:55 am

Amazingly, regular flights to FNJ are now listed in Amadeus ! I looked for these a few weeks back and there wasn't anything.


China Southern Airlines
CZ 6021 Beijing Capital (PEK), Beijing, China
Terminal 1 12:50
Sunan (FNJ), Pyongyang, Korea Democratic Republic Of 15:20
Non-stop
733 1h30min Monday Friday


Asiana Airlines
OZ 1318 Gimpo Int'l (GMP), Seoul, Korea Republic Of
Terminal D 09:00
Sunan (FNJ), Pyongyang, Korea Democratic Republic Of 11:20
Non-stop
321 2h20min Tuesday

Asiana Airlines
OZ 1318 Gimpo Int'l (GMP), Seoul, Korea Republic Of
Terminal D 16:25
Sunan (FNJ), Pyongyang, Korea Democratic Republic Of 17:45
Non-stop
321 1h20min Friday
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
RIXrat
Posts: 670
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:20 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:25 am

Wrightbrothers,

Speaking about special relationships between the USSR and North Korea, there were plenty of Russian pilots who fought for the North Korean side in MiGs. That close relationship went on until the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Of course, the Chinese were involved also, but now everyone is standing back to see what's on the North Korean agenda.
 
NeptunesCar
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:47 pm

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:30 pm

Last December I boarded an Air Asia flight to Phuket to find the entire North Korean Football Team waiting at the gate....(they had just arrived off an Air Koryo flight) they were invited to play a friendly tournament for asian countries after the tsunami.

I sat next to two players who were extremely curious about the outside world, skyscrapers, cars, football, (we were sitting behind their minders who watched them like hawks in the terminal, wouldnt let them wander off and explore) anyway, they had no western money, and were hungry, so I bought them drinks, and when we exchanged passports their jaws dropped: an american had just bought them a Pepsi!

there was some scratching of heads, but then one of them smiled and handed me a crisp 10,000 bill of North Korean Won as a gift; (with Kim Jong Il on it) then, there was silence, and for about 5 minutes his team mate was berating him in Korean, and they argued for a bit, and finally, that guy leaned over and took back the bill, and said, "Kim Jong Il, he is our dear father, Im sorry," and tucked the bill back into his team mates pocket... case closed.

then, we landed, and chatted as we walked to the terminal; by the time we got to baggage claim, they stopped talking to me: their minders were present. but, as I got my bag and walked out of the airport, they turned their backs to their team and mouthed, Happy New Year, in english, with big smiles.

it was one of the most bizarre experiences I have ever had on a flight....


www.theloweroad.com
You call it the world, we call it home. Pan Am.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 40):
Wrightbrothers,

Speaking about special relationships between the USSR and North Korea, there were plenty of Russian pilots who fought for the North Korean side in MiGs. That close relationship went on until the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Of course, the Chinese were involved also, but now everyone is standing back to see what's on the North Korean agenda.

Actually, up to Stalin's death China and the USSR were supporting NK together. After Stalin died in 1953, Khrustchev's break with stalinism caused a rift between the Chinese and the USSR (Mao Zedong considered Khrustchev a traitor to the communist cause because he went away from the ideology of openly spreading communism , this actually lead to several border fights between Chinese and Russian troops in the 1960s-1970s, there was also a short war between Vietnam, supported by the USSR, and China in the late 1970s, when China tied to invade Vietnam and got kicked out again.). Both countries heavily competed for support by third world countries, like the USSR supportinh Vietnam and China Cambudchea's Pol Pot, who was ousted by the Vietnamese.

I think Kim Il Sung (the father of today's dictator Kim Jong Il) has been playing the Chinese against the Russians and vice versa.

Jan

I watched a documentary about North Korea made by a Swiss TV team a few months ago. Seeing the streets in Pyonyang, it reminded me of a poorer version of the old GDR, very clean, but also very boring. The camera team tried to evade the minders as often as possible and got into contact e.g. with teenagers in the streets. The people didn't seem to be unhappy, but this was probably due to lack of knowledge about better alternatives. After all, all media in North Korea are controlled by the government, much stricter than the GDR ever was (Since the late 1960s, east and western German families could meet, also western German radio and TV was available in most parts of East Germany).
People, both in the towns as in the country side, appeared to be slim, but not starving.

Concerning the current missile crisis, I'll bet that the majority of the population doesn't even know that it exists. The whole regime has been built on lies, especially about the persons of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il. Kim Il Sung has been styled as a WW2 hero, who singlehandedly threw out the Japanese occupiers in WW2.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:49 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 42):



Quoting RIXrat (Reply 40):

Thanks for the information  Smile

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: North Korean Aviation

Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
Once though, during my apprenticeship with LH in SXF, a Koryo crew "rescued" me.

In which year was that ?

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
Air Koryo used to fly to SXF (They used to have something like an embassy office in Berlin's Chinese embassy) with IL-18 and IL-62, which were both something like combi freighters

Are there any IL-62s with large cargo doors ? In the database there are some shots of cargo IL-62s, but nowhere I can see a large cargo door.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting SAS333 (Reply 33):
Macau is a lot like Switzerland, in that it allows for anonymous, numbered bank accounts.



Quoting SAS333 (Reply 33):
I am sure according to the money-transactions they would be a frequent guest in Zurich or Geneve, too.

I think you guys have been watching too many movies and reading too much fiction. This is NOT how the Swiss banking system works. Numbered accounts? Doesn't your bank account have a number? Anonymous - no. At least one bank official must know the holder of each account (and has seen passports etc.) and the details must be recorded in the banks files. If you are an EU national - 15% of any interest paid will be withheld and sent on to Brussels.

Much of what you read and hear about Swiss banks is simply not true. (I'm told that as a Swiss resident - I'd be better banking in Luxembourg!)
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: North Korean Aviation

Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 44):
Are there any IL-62s with large cargo doors ? In the database there are some shots of cargo IL-62s, but nowhere I can see a large cargo door.

I don't think so.

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..

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