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1337Delta764
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P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:37 am

This is not a poll, but to discuss the possiblity of P&W engines for Y3.

Boeing has had three aircraft that were offered with all three engine manufactuers: the Boeing 747-400, the Boeing 767-300ER, and the Boeing 777-200ER. The 757-200 was also to be offered with three engine choices, but the GE engine failed to generate interest. Lately, Boeing has been reducing the number of engine manufacturers. The 787 is only available with GE and RR engines. The 777-200LR, 777-300ER, and 747-8 are powered by GE engines exclusively.

With Y3, I am pretty sure that the airlines would like to have at least two engine choices. GE will probably be first pick, but there is the possiblity that Boeing will choose P&W over RR for Y3, or maybe Boeing could offer three engine choices for Y3.

Any thoughts on this?
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Picard
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:57 am

It would most likely go to who ever can offer the best price and performance.
 
zvezda
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:07 am

Y3 would be produced in low enough numbers that I don't see any possibility of three engine choices. The number of choices would probably be two, but just one cannot be ruled out yet.

If I were Boeing, I would encourage all three to develop competitive designs and then would select two, just as with the B787 program.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:22 am

Pratt may be out of the large civil aero engine business by the time the Y3 appears (~2016)
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 3):
Pratt may be out of the large civil aero engine business by the time the Y3 appears (~2016)

If the 737RS were to be offered with two engine choices, they would probably be CFM and IAE. Pratt is part of IAE.
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Lumberton
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 3):
Pratt may be out of the large civil aero engine business by the time the Y3 appears (~2016)

I'm not so sure that's correct. They could bid to be a "player" on the A370. Airbus is rumored to have signed up RR, and GE is said to be tentative on this. IMO, this could represent an excellent opportunity for Pratt to get back in the large engine commercial game. Question is: are they willing to invest?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Areopagus
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
Question is: are they willing to invest?

Don't know about Y3, but P&W certainly is planning to invest to get back into the game with upcoming single aisle airliners. From ATW:
In an effort to recapture some of the single-aisle market, reestablish its relationship with certain carriers and set the stage for its role in developing a next-generation single-aisle engine, Pratt & Whitney yesterday announced its intention to manufacture, certify and market replacement CFM56-3 parts for the 737-300/-400/-500 series through its new Global Material Solutions business.
 
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N328KF
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 6):
Don't know about Y3, but P&W certainly is planning to invest to get back into the game with upcoming single aisle airliners. From ATW:

The good thing is, with the 737RS/NSR projects, there certainly is room for three players.
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Lumberton
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 6):
Don't know about Y3, but P&W certainly is planning to invest to get back into the game with upcoming single aisle airliners. From ATW:

This article doesn't mention it, but Pratt does intend to pursue the next generation NB business in concert with IAE. Sorry, read that awhile ago and don't have a link; just from memory. Still think the A370 concept represents an opportunity for them to get back in the large commercial engine game.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
The good thing is, with the 737RS/NSR projects, there certainly is room for three players.

Unless P&W decides to leave IAE, I don't think there will be three engine options. For the 737RS/NSR, GE will likely continue to work with Snecma as CFM, and P&W will likely continue to work with Rolls-Royce, MTU, and the JAEC as IAE. The Boeing 737NG is only available with CFM engines, but the lack of IAE engines is due to the low height of the 737's wings.
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VirginFlyer
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
This is not a poll

You really don't need to say that - we know it isn't a poll...

Anyway, I imagine Boeing will probably go down the same path as they did with Y2/7E7/787, and select two engines. Now, there isn't anything to stop P&W competing for this, however they are going to be at a disadvantage to GE and RR, who will have a considerable level of technology they can draw on from the GEnx and Trent 1000 respectively. If P&W does the unexpected, and gets selected as an engine type for the A350/370, then obviously that would go some way to removing that disadvantage. Unfortunately for P&W, I don't think that will happen, and it looks like they will be effectively locked out of the engine market for widebody aircraft for the foreseeable future. Rather ironic when you consider their long association with Boeing, and think that just over a decade ago, P&W provided the launch engine for the 777. How times change...

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 8):
This article doesn't mention it, but Pratt does intend to pursue the next generation NB business in concert with IAE.

In a Flight article a while ago about the possible next generation narrowbodies, I recall someone from P&W saying that they intended to remain in the IAE consortium, but that they would also continue to develop their geared turbofan, and if IAE didn't look like having a successful proposal for the new narrowbodies, they would be prepared to go it alone.

V/F
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MarkC
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RE: P&W Engines For Y3?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:27 am

I think its going to be a question of if PW want's to devote the resources to such a project. The resources right now are working on F119/JSF, Geared Fan, and Overhaul. Who knows, maybe in a few years, the fighter stuff will slow down to free people up for large fans. I'm sure the technology from these new projects could be used in a new large fan engine to good effect. Just because there has not been much new on the commercial side recently does not mean people are sitting around doing nothing.

It will come down to how many engines would they sell in the life of the program. I think there were a little less than 500 112" 4000 made. Thats not enough to support a totally new program. Single isle is much jucier. I would like to see it though. The bigger engines are so much more impressive visually. Even a 2000 next to a 112" looks like a junior varsity engine.

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