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1337Delta764
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What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:36 am

What is keeping most large LCCs out of CVG? USA 3000 is the only airline that everyone considers an LCC that serves CVG (I am not going to get into the argument whether U.S. Airways is really an LCC or not).
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luv2fly
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:39 am

Well in reality DL to some extent. Also the area as a whole does have LCC's just not flying in and out of CVG, you have IND, DAY, CMH, SDF and EVV all have a LCC or two. Also CVG does not have the strongest O/D numbers.
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dutchjet
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:45 am

Simple answer......Delta.

Delta dominates at CVG, as I am sure you know, with its hub operation. Its difficult for other carriers to come in and establish new services at the hub cities of other carriers. Until recently, the logic was that there were better opportunities for the LCCs in other markets, so why get into a battle with a legacy carrier at one of its hub cities.

More recently, LCCs have been started entering markets that were dominated by a legacy carrier....its logical, LCCs have grown quickly and their are now several very viable airlines in the LCC arena. WN has a growing operation at PHL (US hub), Southwest is returning to Denver (UA/F9 hub), JetBlue made an appearance at Newark (CO hub), AirTran and DL co-exist at ATL....so at some point, a LCC will enter the CVG market.
 
srbmod
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:35 am

Location. Many of the airports in the region already see service from LCCs.

CAK: FL, F9
CLE: WN, USA 3000
TOL: Allegiant
SDF: WN
CMH: WN
DAY: FL, F9
 
luv2fly
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:36 am

USA3000 does offer flights from CVG!
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avconsultant
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:03 pm

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 1):
Well in reality DL to some extent.

Their fares are not indicative of a LCC.


I've always been told the Kenton County Airport Board was not receptive to LCC they're very comfortable with the level of service they. Very loyal to DL.

When I visit relatives, I fly into DAY. Easy drive.
 
luv2fly
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 5):
Their fares are not indicative of a LCC.

That is probably because they are a charter airline that does a handful of Florida flights during times that they are not running flights for parent company Apple Vacations.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
miller22
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:24 pm

Simply put, Cincinnati is too small for the amount of service it has. Delta owns that market like Airways owns Charlotte. Most of the people who want lower fares go to SDF or DAY already. If SWA moved into CVG, they'd probably see full flights, but they'd lose just about as many passengers on their SDF flights.

I could see SWA making an MCO, BWI, or MDW work, but only because they could connect from those cities. That would reduce the yields by half, and they wouldn't be able to charge a premium because Delta would be able to offer a nonstop.

Airtran would not be able to compete to Atlanta.

You have to remember that Delta will respond, and respond violently, to protect their hub. Just like jetBlue being run out of the ATL/LA market, so too would an LLC trying to go head to head with Delta out of CVG.
 
luv2fly
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:31 pm

Quoting Miller22 (Reply 7):
You have to remember that Delta will respond, and respond violently, to protect their hub. Just like jetBlue being run out of the ATL/LA market, so too would an LLC trying to go head to head with Delta out of CVG.

DL is not in the same position it was when B6 started up ATL service. And also it has been debated over and over again about the whole B6 and ATL issue. You have to ask yourself just how much DL lost in its efforts to protect ATL!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
miller22
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):

DL is not in the same position it was when B6 started up ATL service. And also it has been debated over and over again about the whole B6 and ATL issue. You have to ask yourself just how much DL lost in its efforts to protect ATL!

I didn't say its necessarily what they should do, I said its what they would do. Delta has learned dearly from Airtran that they must protect their hubs. They will.
 
goingboeing
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:08 am

The people of Cincinatti are what keeps an LCC out of CVG. A few years ago, people in Cincy were complaining about the airfares there. A little airline named Vanguard started service from there to MDW. Delta and United matched the fares, and the good folks of Cincinatti thanked Vanguard...as they walked past their counter and boarded their Delta and United flights. Since the business wasn't going to Vanguard, they opted to pull out of the market. Bottom line is - if a LCC starts serving a community, the locals need to give up their elite status and miles and "dance with the one that brung 'em".

A somewhat different city is Wichita...they've begged for LCC service for years. Finally Airtran started service there...and the residents thanked them as they boarded their Delta flights. Airtran talked of pulling out of the market, and the CITY pretty much subsidizes their ICT operation, much to the chagrin of Delta.
 
steeler83
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 10):
The people of Cincinatti are what keeps an LCC out of CVG. A few years ago, people in Cincy were complaining about the airfares there. A little airline named Vanguard started service from there to MDW. Delta and United matched the fares, and the good folks of Cincinatti thanked Vanguard...as they walked past their counter and boarded their Delta and United flights. Since the business wasn't going to Vanguard, they opted to pull out of the market. Bottom line is - if a LCC starts serving a community, the locals need to give up their elite status and miles and "dance with the one that brung 'em".

That certainly is not the case with WN at PHL and PIT. I don't hear of anyone "thanking" WN and then stabbing them in the tailfin by boarding a US plane. I know I certainly don't do that. PHL is a very competitive market with WN there in addition to the large US hub, and PIT is becomming competitive with WN and B6 coming in to fill in the gaps left in the removal of the fortress US hub there... The only time I'd consider flying on US would be for an overseas trip. As far as domestic flying is concerned, it's going to be either on B6, WN or some other LCC...

Is CVG in talks right now with any LCCs? What are they offering LCCs if they decice to add service, any reduction in operating costs and/or landing fees, anything of the type?
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CentPIT
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 10):
The people of Cincinatti are what keeps an LCC out of CVG. A few years ago, people in Cincy were complaining about the airfares there. A little airline named Vanguard started service from there to MDW. Delta and United matched the fares, and the good folks of Cincinatti thanked Vanguard...as they walked past their counter and boarded their Delta and United flights. Since the business wasn't going to Vanguard, they opted to pull out of the market. Bottom line is - if a LCC starts serving a community, the locals need to give up their elite status and miles and "dance with the one that brung 'em".

I agree with you completely!


Something tells me that if a LCC that is well known, such as WN or B6 was to enter the CVG market, the people would support them. I know that for one, WN and B6 would not be in Pittsburgh if US didn't cut flights, and jobs. DL is still in "charge" at CVG. Until large amounts of people in CVG are laid off by the mother carrier (DL) no one is going to support anyone but them because they aren't pissed at Delta. Everyone in Pittsburgh is/was mad at US for what unfortunately had to be done to one of the "hubs" (PIT being chosen). So in the heat of the moment, people became loyal WN fans and are now becoming loyal B6 fans. So in a "nutshell," Delta Air Lines is keeping LCC out of CVG!

I on the other hand will fly any airline with great service and good fares. I am a HUGE fan of Delta! PIT is really becoming an interesting market. I like to call it being "set free!" US will bring back flights here and there and will drop the unprofitable ones. I hope CVG can lure a LCC without the demise of the Delta hub.

Until you land a LCC, Good Luck, and remember Pittsburghers know exactly how you feel!
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:19 pm

Three words. Delta Air Lines.

Delta will protect the hub at almost any cost.

JetBlue tried to infiltrate Atlanta and Delta poured on the flight and the cheap seats and ran JetBlue out of the market.

Delta would most certainly do the same in CVG.

An airline like Southwest, with dozens of aircraft delivery scheduled in the coming years could take on Delta. But the smaller LCC's don't have enough aircraft available to be able to beat Delta in a battle over CVG.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
steeler83
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 12):

Right on  highfive 

I actually forgot about FL starting up PIT service back in 2000 and how the whopper US fortress hub essentially "made them pull out." They didn't exactly leave PIT, but they might as well have with only 5 flights now... What do you suppose will happen with DL in PIT, considering they add SLC service? Do you think we should start a thread about that?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
CentPIT
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RE: What Is Keeping LCCs Out Of CVG?

Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 14):
What do you suppose will happen with DL in PIT, considering they add SLC service? Do you think we should start a thread about that?

Sure!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)

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