mandala499
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Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:34 pm

A friend took this shot...

http://www.indoflyer.net/indoforum/upfiles/1103/DD720076461843F7B9904DF495079237.jpg

After the MA-60 order, looks like Merpati does it again with strange planes ! LOL

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
NWDC10
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:44 pm

I think it's a pretty cool looking jet. Robert NWDC10
 
IanatSTN
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:11 pm

Wow that does look pretty cool, what engines are those?

Cheers,
Ian.
Ian@STN ::
 
NWDC10
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:20 pm

Quoting IanatSTN (Reply 2):
what engines are those?

They are probably the same engines that were on the fuselage but moved under the wings. Robert NWDC10
 
columba
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:23 pm

Will that plane be used in the new Bond movie ?
After that An 124/Il 76 hybrid and the 747 with B-52 style engines recently posted here you get the impression that they use a lot of weird aircrafts.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
IanatSTN
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:23 pm

Thanks for that, would this aircraft be considered airworthy? If it is does anyone have any idea as to the purpose of this modification?

Cheers,
Ian.
Ian@STN ::
 
jwenting
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:48 pm

Quoting NWDC10 (Reply 3):
They are probably the same engines that were on the fuselage but moved under the wings. Robert NWDC10

They look more like engines taken from a 737-200, maybe even the entire wing from a 737-200.
I wish I were flying
 
IanatSTN
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:15 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 6):
They look more like engines taken from a 737-200, maybe even the entire wing from a 737-200.

If this info was to be true then I very much doubt it is airworthy  Smile And the fact it is perhaps going to be used in the bond film further supports this theory.

Cheers,
Ian
Ian@STN ::
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 6):
They look more like engines taken from a 737-200, maybe even the entire wing from a 737-200.

almost looks like that, but I think they look a little small for a 737 wing/engine



CanadianNorth
Way to go, nice and slow, never late, 748!
 
NZ8800
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:04 am

Keep thinking of that little song "It's Merpati and I'll fly if I want to..."

Looks like this might include doing crazy modifications to their jets as well!!!

And I have heard quite a bit (accurate or otherwise) about Merpati flying aircraft that would not be allowed to get anywhere near a runway in the West, let alone take off with people on board!

So who knows - maybe they DO fly that thing!
MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
 
EWS
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:49 am

Extensive cloaning can be seen in various places on the image..

http://www.tfsphoto.com/pics/airliners_cloned_fokker.jpg

Go figure...

Lew
 
petertenthije
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:03 am

Cloning? Perhaps, but not necessarily. The tail section is missing its engine pylon, hence the markings. Had it been cloned the photo would have looked differently. Why leave a tiny mark where the pylon would have been if you can easily remove the entire reference?

As for the fuselage section. Sorry, don't see a trace of cloning. Obviously the picture quality is quite dreadful so any cloning is more easily to hide but still.

As for the wing. It is in my opinion quite clearly a standard F28 wing (check the wing fence) with the normal F28 engine attached underneath it (engine is too small to be 732).

Leaves us only the question of why. What movie will this be used in, and why does the engine have to be under the wings instead of just on the fuselage.
Attamottamotta!
 
flyf15
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:36 am

They've done something weird with a 747 for this movie too... check it out.


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Photo © Ben Kings



Can't wait to see this in theaters!
 
spotterke
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 11):
Cloning? Perhaps, but not necessarily. The tail section is missing its engine pylon, hence the markings. Had it been cloned the photo would have looked differently. Why leave a tiny mark where the pylon would have been if you can easily remove the entire reference?

Maby that is just the goal of the cloner.Maby he/she wants us to believe that there was an engine on the fuselage
Marc
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:47 am

It's for the movie. Probably doing things and crashing them about that the real airplane manufacturers might get a little testy about. They don't fly. At least not in the real world. They may fly in the computer. Will be interesting to see what they do with them. You never know with Specter..
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 9):
Keep thinking of that little song "It's Merpati and I'll fly if I want to..."

Hehehe, I love it!  Smile
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
miamix707
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:39 am

Hot little fokker...

Hey, if that thing is gonna be in a movie it might be worth checking it out just for that scene. For sure it'd beat watching Pirates of the Caribbean which I saw last night.. PoS!

So is that an F-28 or an F-70?
 
m404
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:13 pm

Why would they bother to make a ficticious airplane flown by a real airline? Love to see the script reason if it is a movie prop.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 11):
Cloning? Perhaps, but not necessarily. The tail section is missing its engine pylon, hence the markings. Had it been cloned the photo would have looked differently.

What could be the rationale for the high T-tail when the engines are mounted underwing?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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LTU932
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:37 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 16):
So is that an F-28

It's an F-28. Notice the eyebrow window above the main cockpit windows.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 18):
What could be the rationale for the high T-tail when the engines are mounted underwing?

I wouldn't know, but it's not unheard of. The first 757 designs or rather the proposed 727-300 was to have a T-Tail and wing mounted engines. Also, don't forget these birds:

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Photo © Niklas Åhman
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Photo © Raimund Stehmann

 
3201
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:55 pm

T-tail with low-wing and wing-mounted engines?

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19):
The first 757 designs or rather the proposed 727-300 was to have a T-Tail

... but they found it was less efficient overall. T-tails have some advantages, some disadvantages, but...

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19):
Also, don't forget these birds:

... which all have high wing.

You can see some with low-wing and wing-mounted engines, but they're turboprops with the engines above, rather than below, the wings, e.g. Brasilia.

If there's a low-wing with engines below the wing and a T-tail, I don't know what it is, and they didn't make too many of 'em.

But kids draw 'em that way sometimes, at least I did.  Smile
7 hours aint long-haul
 
flyf15
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:09 pm

How about this thing?  Smile


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Bohlman
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:17 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 18):

What could be the rationale for the high T-tail when the engines are mounted underwing?

On planes with propellers (i.e. King Air C90s compared to King Air F90), it actually is beneficial to have a T tail, because the prop-wash going over the tail creates a reasonable amount of turbulence. I would assume that that could also be the case with high wing aircraft (since the wing is higher).
I'm not pro-Boeing or pro-Airbus, I'm pro-crew all the way.
 
3201
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 21):
How about this thing?

It's got buried engines (thus not underwing engines), but I'll give 8/10 for thinking of it.  biggrin  BTW there was a transport version proposed, still with the T-tail... e.g. http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/victor/history.html

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 22):
On planes with propellers (i.e. King Air C90s compared to King Air F90), it actually is beneficial to have a T tail,

 checkmark  -- although still engines on/above wing, not under.  Smile
7 hours aint long-haul
 
757223
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:14 pm

Airworthy? I don't think we would even be to the step of asking if it is "airworthy." Moving engines to a wing from the rear would affect CG and balance.
A/C Flown: 727,737,747,757,767,777,A319/320,MD-80,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,BAC-111,F-100,CRJ-200/700,EMB-135/140/145,SF-340
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:25 pm

Quoting 3201 (Reply 23):
although still engines on/above wing, not under


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Photo © David Townsend - WorldAirImages



Here are a couple of examples where high tailplanes are clearly warranted.....

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Photo © Geoff Sobering


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Photo © Jos Schoofs



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Photo © Jos Schoofs

"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting 3201 (Reply 20):
If there's a low-wing with engines below the wing and a T-tail, I don't know what it is, and they didn't make too many of 'em.

 checkmark 
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:22 pm

Fokker's own one-time F-29 design:
http://www.dutch-aviation.nl/picture.../Civil/Fokker%20F29%20tekening.jpg

But of course this F-28 is not airworthy. It's just a derelict airframe that somebody liked to play around with. I agree the engines are the F-28's own.

I don't think it's been done for a movie, as it doesn't look special or awesome unlike the converted 747, and it wouldn't wear existing airline colours.

Mandala, where was the photograph taken?
The aeronautical engineering academy at Bandung, perhaps, or Jakarta-Halim?

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
mandala499
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:51 pm

After reading the replies... all I could say is... OMFG! I never thought you guys would discuss it to this seriousness! But that's credit to all who participated. I guess it's time I make some explanations before someone turns this thread into a total nightmare.

Regarding the aircraft: It IS an actual F28!
1. No cloning has been made on the picture. Sorry EWS...
2. Aircraft was airworthy until they moved the engines. This is what I have been told. In this form, it is NOT...
3. Information from Merpati has said that it is a dummy engine bolted onto the wing, however some have also stated that it's just the Spey nacelle bolted on.

Regarding as to why and where:
1. It is not for a movie. It is for counter terrorism training.
3. Photo taken at the Police Counter Terrorism Training Center near Semarang, Java.
4. The reasons for moving the engine is unclear... even for CT training. Some has said it is to familiarise the CT police with the config of wing mounted engines and its dangers.

Regarding Merpati:
And I have heard quite a bit (accurate or otherwise) about Merpati flying aircraft that would not be allowed to get anywhere near a runway in the West, let alone take off with people on board!

Well, I wouldn't allow the props to get to anywhere in the west... their jet fleet (the ones that are flying anyways) is quite OK.

So, I hope this explained it and thanks to the replies! It certainly made a nice break from being bombarded with The World Cup...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
Mogget
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RE: Fokker Lives On In New Shape!

Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:50 am

Quote:
How about this thing?

Thing ?!!

THING ??!!!!!!!

That is a Handley Page Victor. One of the most beautiful planes ever built. And if there are any multi millionaires reading these words, I'd like to see one back in the air, so start raiding those bank accounts ASAP  Smile

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