icebud
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon May 07, 2001 6:08 am

Whats The Story With BMI?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:16 am

Has anyone had experience flying with BMI recently?

I used to fly with them often on domestic flights and occassionally into Europe but have not been for a while, drifting over to BA instead. The reports I've been hearing about the so-called decline of this airline have saddened me even, for example with pay on-board service, automated seat alloaction, interlining at LHR etc.

Would just be interesting to hear anyones thoughts/experiences/opinions on how different this airline is today compared to pre-August 2005 when changes were brought in.
 
YTOFAN
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:34 am

I took BMI LHR-CDG-LHR in February. Early morning departure @ 0635, we left the gate on time, but sat on the tarmac until 0810. On the return flight, we left on time, but sat again on the tarmac at LHR for 45 minutes. As it was a short flight and we ate prior to each of them I didnt see the use in buying the food on board however, the service was friendly.
 
BMIbaby733
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:48 am

I flew BMI, MAN - LHR in April this year.
I've never flown with them before but the service was the same as easyjet & BMIbaby.

very....let's say...standard?
 
Horus
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:03 am

No doubt the last 5 years has seen a radical change in the aviation industry and airlines have had to adapt to the new environment to survive (financially). bmi is no different. I agree that bmi's onboard services has drastically changed since August05 (with the introduction of the NBM) but that's to reflect the market conditions (i.e. competition from low cost and full service carriers). I've noticed people are quick to poke fun at bmi, and yes the airline has made questionable decisions in the past but things are looking up. I've been flying the airline several times a week for the last few months in both Y and C class and I really have to say that their ground and onboard service and product is very good (though there is room for improvement).

Passenger figures for the first half of the year show healthy growth compared to the same period last year. They are the most punctual British airline out of LHR. Moscow flights start in November. They are the only British carrier to serve the lucrative UK-Saudi market with flights to RUH and JED performing much better than predicted and DMM expected to come online next year. MAN-ORD and MAN-LAS flight are doing very well passenger and yield wise (especially ORD). LHR-EDI continues to be their busiest route with equipment upgrade expected on the route soon (NAP and DUB flights record 85%+ loadfactors). LHR-BOM flights are not doing as well as expected due to what can only be described as a sudden glut in flights on the UK-India market and there are no plans to launch DEL flights. On the European network, there are rumours that ALC and NCE flights will be terminated. ALC is enjoying high loads but yields are low. Passenger numbers to NCE have dropped after AF stopped codesharing on the flights. A new European destination (other than MOW) is planned late06/early07. The charter operation this summer is the largest ever undertaken especially out of BFS and bmibaby passenger figures are very high especially out of EMA.

All in all bmi seems to be trying to correct the errors it made in the past. Yes it's great to have a 'free' meal onboard (price included in your ticket) but with the price driven nature of today's market it may not be financially feasible nor sustainable. bmi's new 'tiny fares' have allowed the airline to market itself to a large yet relatively untapped market out of LHR.

I see BD returning to its former glory if they focus on improving operations out of 'lucrative LHR' whilst catering to the market needs.


Horus

[Edited 2006-07-11 01:22:21]
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
jaysit
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:50 am

I took the BMI A332 flight from LHR to BOM about a month ago. The outbound flight was only about 30% full, and there were only about 5 of us in premium economy and about 6 in Business. The service was fantastic and the food great.

The flight back was full in every class. The crew once again were fantastic. I can't remember what I ate, because I think I ate nothing. BMI's premium economy seats are excellent and you can sleep all the way from BOM to LHR. When I woke up 30 minutes before landing, the male flight purser came up to me and offered me a light breakfast and a cup of tea. I thought it was rather nice of him. Chatting with the cabin crew, they told me that the flight is usually full on weekends, but has lighter loads during the week.
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icebud
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:10 am

Horus,

You mention an equipment upgrade soon to be announced on EDI-LHR. But hasn't BMI recently downgraded equipment on this route recently, with the regular A321 being replaced by a mix of A320 and A319. EDI used to be an A321 for the first am flight daily and this is now an A320 or A319 I think.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 3):
Passenger numbers to NCE have dropped after AF stopped codesharing on the flights

AF only had 10-20 seats for sale on each BD flight, and dropped the codeshare because BD no longer offered a "full-service" product on the flight. For the same reason, passengers are deserting to BA in droves. That and the fact that BA manage to operate 7 full-service flights a day to London (LHR/LGW) to BD's one.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
dgehfx
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:36 am

I travelled from BOM to LHR in FEB on BMI. I was upgraded to Premium Economy cabin which was slightly less than half full. It was one of the best flights I've ever taken. Serene from take-off to landing, from what I know - I slept for many hours.
The flight attendant was very attentive, bringing me extra newspapers without being asked so I could work on the Sudoku. The food was good and adequate. The aircraft - A332, I think - appeared new and spotlessly clean and soothing colours.
 
MichiganMAN
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:47 am

As a non aviation bod I don't often post for usually people whom are in the know will just come along and correct me.........
However I have often wondered why BMI are trying to compete with BA / Virgin at Heathrow, when they have a solid little base in Manchester and with that, jump from Star Alliance to SkyTeam to compliment the Continental / Delta flights out of ringway.......

just wondering.
UK -> USA
 
Horus
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:30 am

Icebud, the LHR-EDI route has been the busiest route on the network for the past 3 months with passenger numbers up 6.3% compared to the same quarter in 2005. The route is operated almost exclusively with A320/A321s (except during the weekend when the A319 and ER4 make several appearances).

JGPH1A, IIRC initially AF had 35 seats on each flight but that number was reduced gradually until it was cancelled altogether last year. Of course nothing has been confirmed but it's likely to face the same fate as MAD.

MichiganMAN, BD has never made secret of the fact that LHR long haul is where they see the profit (greater demand and more lucrative) and that MAN long haul flights (despite being a niche market) are only a stop-gap until then. Internal 'talk' suggest that LHR-US flight (namely LHR-JFK/ORD) could be launched as early as Autumn06 if the Bermuda II treaty is rectified (they are in a much better position than their US counterparts since they have lucrative LHR slots). There's talk that 2 A332s will be ordered along with the acquisition of two ex-LH A343s. If the latter plans go ahead BD can theoretically maintain their MAN long haul flights (considering how well they're doing) whilst growing their LHR long hauls services.

Jaysit, Dgehfx, I'm glad you both had such good experiences with bmi. That certainly is their aim.

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
christeljs
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:55 am

I flew them on June 17th BHD-LHR. I didn't like the idea that I could not pick my own seat and my boarding pass said I had an aisle seat so I asked if they could give me a window seat. They only had 2 window seats left so I was left with just taking what they offered. The fact that their baby "BMI baby" has the option of choosing your seat online, and BMI don't, I think is not very good.
Christel A Photography
 
pilot21
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:02 am

Horus

Not sure if you are connected with BMI, or just a loyal customer, but if you are right about things beginning to look up, I'd be pleased. British Midland use to be a great little airline and it gave EI a good kick up the ass on the DUB-LHR route when they started flying it (I think in the early 90's?? I can be corrected on that)

Having taken BMI a few times between DUB-LHR over the past few months, my impressions were not great. The worst experience was in April on Easter Saturday when I was flying on the first departure out of DUB to LHR to catch a connecting flight. The aircraft had struck a flock of birds on landing the previous evening and so was out of service, however BMI only had 2 staff on to re-check all 150 pax. What made it worse was the fact that they didn't seperate anybody into connecting/LHR only traffic, so I watched 3 EI flights leave before I was even seen and of course missed my connection!
Then it appeared that everybody was re-booked onto the next BMI flight, which still had room to spare after the 1st and 2nd flights were combined on one of the busiest weekends of the yr, so I'm surprised about the 85% load on the DUB flight you mention above. (In case this was a once off, both my Christmas flights and my return in June were about 60% full, so I'm glad if they pull through.)
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
jaysit
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:17 am

What are there load factors in general nowadays on the BOM route?

Travel agents here in the US are offering tickets to BOM on BMI with a connecting flight on UA to LHR, although on my flight to BOM on BMI, most pax were originating in the UK.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Horus
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:52 am

Pilot21,

There's no doubt there's still room for improvement when comparing the bmi of today and the British Midland of the 90s. Your Easter Sunday DUB debacle is proof of that. Having said that the infrastructure is there (staff and product wise) and simple re-organisation with a few tweaks here and there should do the trick. Last Friday I flew LHR-DUB-LHR. Due to the bomb-scare (and subsequent closure) of DUB my flight was cancelled and I was rebooked on the second flight (also delayed due to DUB problem). Ground and cabin staff were absolutely brilliant in keeping passengers up to date with the latest and doing their utmost to get passengers out as soon as possible. On the DUB-LHR sector later that evening, the flight was delayed 45minutes due a passenger from the previous LHR-DUB flight leaving a duty free bag onboard and setting off a full security alert (the fact that DUB had a bomb-scare earlier that day and that it was 7/7 didn't help). But again the staff (including Captain and F/O) were on hand to help. Once on board the SCA and cabin crew helped passengers with connecting flights with information, telexed their details to ground staff and made an announcement over the P/A asking passengers to remain seated when they've reached the gate to allow passenger with connections to disembark first. Great service recovery on both flights.

Regarding DUB (along with BHD, GLA, EDI and BRU) a dedicated business class and product is offered highlighting the importance and high yield nature of these flights. EI and BD offer almost identical economy products on the LHR-DUB route but BD has the edge by offering C class while EI has the advantage of offering greater frequency. I can't comment why your flights had lighter loads because DUB does well. I've flown on certain flights/routes where I've been told "they're always full" or "always empty" and it was quite the opposite when I got onboard.

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Humberside
Posts: 3223
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:22 am

Today bmi officially announced LHR-DME. Heres the schedule, flights will use an A320:

Heathrow-Moscow Domodedovo BD891 Daily depart 0930 arrive 1620
Moscow Domodedovo-Heathrow BD894 Daily depart 1710 arrive 1805

Press Release - http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/abou...essreleases.aspx?year=2006&rid=966

Quote:
Star Alliance carrier bmi and Russian Federation carrier Transaero will both launch daily return flights on 29th October at the start of the winter timetable period. The new services from Heathrow are part of a commercial agreement signed by the two carriers today (11th July) in London. This will double the number of return flights to Moscow Domodedovo from Heathrow to four round trips per day.

A commercial agreement between the two carriers was a condition of the designation of bmi to serve Moscow from London Heathrow, following the recent bilateral negotiation between the UK and Russian Federation Governments. Through the agreement both airlines will benefit from reciprocal codeshare and sales activities. This will allow bmi to offer onward connections in the Russian Federation on the services of Transaero from Moscow Domodedovo. Transaero will be able to offer connecting flights at Heathrow onto the extensive domestic, European and long haul network of bmi.

Nigel Turner, chief executive officer of bmi said “We have concluded a very constructive and mutually beneficial agreement with Transaero. This will allow us to enter an entirely new market and develop further our growing route network from Heathrow. We are determined to deliver to this market the best possible value for money, through the fares that they pay and the level of service they receive.”

Alexander Krinichansky, executive director of Transaero said “We are delighted that we have been able to conclude this agreement with bmi. With the launch of new competitive services from Heathrow by Transaero and Star Alliance member bmi, we see great potential for both point to point and connecting services. Jointly selling these new services in our respective countries will enable Transaero and bmi to benefit from the strength and reputation we enjoy in our home markets. We look forward to a long, meaningful working relationship through the implementation of our new agreement.”

Also an article from Travel Weekly on LHR-USA

Quote:
BMI is considering flying up to 12 routes between Heathrow and the US and assures that it will have no problem finding the slots to operate them.

Chairman Sir Michael Bishop said: “There is a cocktail of ways to achieve more capacity.”

Deputy chief executive Tim Bye explained: “There are slots available at certain times of the day; you could convert less valuable services into US services, and you can swap slots within alliances – although we have enough of our own.”

He declined to disclose what US routes BMI is planning, but said: “We’ve narrowed it down from about 30 to 10 or 12.

“We have sufficient slots and we have plenty of traffic to feed on to long-haul services.”

BMI.html" target=_blank>http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articl...pacity+'no+problem'+for+BMI.html

I wonder what the 12 routes are. My guesses - JFK, EWR, BOS, ORD, IAD, MIA, PHL, LAX, SFO, SEA, DEN, PHX

What is clear is that medium/long haul is the future for bmi at LHR and that some less profitable short haul routes at LHR could be at risk, unfortunately routes like MME seem to be at risk in my opinion. Good to see possible A330 orders from bmi though
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LS737
Posts: 58
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:23 am

The best advice you can have is to avoid bmi like the plague. They've become a dreadful airline with staff who clearly wish they were somewhere else (possibly with a decent airline). Things are so bad that they're now using ER4s on weekday flights between MAN and LHR!
 
pilot21
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:24 am

Many thanks for a great reply Horus, and very glad to hear your experiences last week went well given the hassle in DUB everyday last week (or so it seemed). Def keeping the C class on the DUB flight has helped them in yields I'd say. My Christmas flight was with them because I was in F with AA from JFK-LHR, and even though EI is (was) a oneworld partner, AA have changed connecting flights to BD on that sector to allow pax continue the routing in C class.

Cheers for the update, and hopefully they continue the improvements. (A few extra A330's would def. help them because a lot of moaning on here has been about the lack of consistency on their long-haul products. i.e. A330/B757/B767 etc...)
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
MichiganMAN
Posts: 137
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Also an article from Travel Weekly on LHR-USA


I wonder what the 12 routes are. My guesses - JFK, EWR, BOS, ORD, IAD, MIA, PHL, LAX, SFO, SEA, DEN, PHX

What is clear is that medium/long haul is the future for bmi at LHR and that some less profitable short haul routes at LHR could be at risk, unfortunately routes like MME seem to be at risk in my opinion. Good to see possible A330 orders from bmi though

Bermuda II won't allow this though in it's current form correct?
UK -> USA
 
Humberside
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 17):
Bermuda II won't allow this though in it's current form correct?

Yes. bmi and myself in that post are assuming there will be EU-US open skies soon
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MichiganMAN
Posts: 137
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
Yes. bmi and myself in that post are assuming there will be EU-US open skies soon

if you consider hypothetically the open skies happening won't the likes of Northwest / Continental / US Airways et al also flying into LHR will there;

a) be enough BMI slots to accomodate the 12 extra long haul flights and keep their short haul network

b) be enough bums on seats for the LHR-USA flights if you consider that the likes of US Airways, Continental and Northwest will also want to jump on the LHR open skies bandwagon.

As I asked before, why does BMI continue to play 3rd fiddle at LHR when they could be top dog in Manchester?
UK -> USA
 
Humberside
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 19):
a) be enough BMI slots to accomodate the 12 extra long haul flights and keep their short haul network

The short haul network will probably see cutbacks. I doubt the likes of EDI, GLA, AMS, BRU, CDG, BHD and DUB would see major cutbacks but routes like MME could be up for the axe

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 19):
b) be enough bums on seats for the LHR-USA flights if you consider that the likes of US Airways, Continental and Northwest will also want to jump on the LHR open skies bandwagon.

Dont forget some of the airlines will just move services from LGW and therefore will not increase capacity to London so if you take the whole LON-USA market there wouldn't be a huge capacity increase from any airline except bmi (as they dont have any LON-USA services at the moment so would be a new entrant)
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
mainMAN
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 19):
As I asked before, why does BMI continue to play 3rd fiddle at LHR when they could be top dog in Manchester?

With London being one of the the biggest and most high-yielding regions anywhere, the potential for bmi's LHR base is immense.

I agree, BMI could have a greater presence at MAN. Considering they're in the same alliance as SA, SQ, TG and NH amongst others, they could quite feasibly have been developing a network with those carriers to their own hubs. Sadly, they're not too interested.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 19):
a) be enough BMI slots to accomodate the 12 extra long haul flights and keep their short haul network

Sure BMI owns 14% of all slots, thats over 50 per day. Drop one of the many times daily CDG / BRU / AMS / MAN / EDI / GLA / INV / ABZ / BHX routes... you get your slots.

b) be enough bums on seats for the LHR-USA flights if you consider that the likes of US Airways, Continental and Northwest will also want to jump on the LHR open skies bandwagon.

It could be what saves bmi... will have the connections in Europe which US / NW / CO will not have.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:16 am

bmi used to offer an excellant service for a low price..

I flew LHR-MAN / ABZ / GLA / BRU / AMS more than 20x a year.

some of the fares.. from £50-£100 inc tax with airmiles, meal and lounge service were excellant and their flights always full.

Since 2005, Ive flown 3x (once to ABZ, 1x BRU and last weekend to DUB).
Each flight as 50% empty, the fare has increased, the airmiles decreased and not one flight actually served inflight food not even to buy.

This airline doesnt know how to make money any more.

No Budget airline flies without food to sell.. bmi doesnt stock it.. just advertises it for sale.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 12):
What are there load factors in general nowadays on the BOM route?

Here is what CEO Nigel Turner said about BOM, "...Heathrow to Mumbai route is proving to be far more challenging (compared to RUH and JED). The impact of a sudden and massive increase in capacity has created a buyers market as far as ticket prices are concerned. We are fortunate that the A330 aircraft is an extremely efficient economic aeroplance compared to some of our competitor's larger aircaft that they are desperate to fill. However, we still need to make further inroads into gaining a greater share of the market at the right yield before we can start firming up plans to serve other Indian cities in the future."

I've heard the figure of 70% loadfactors on the route. Y and Y+ are doing very well but C can be improved.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Today bmi officially announced LHR-DME. Heres the schedule, flights will use an A320:

Indeed it was. The new dedicated Business class that will be launched for the route will give them an excellent edge over BA and SU (BD's seat pitch will be 41" compared to BA's 34" and SU's 38"). Belly cargo is expected to improve the route's revenue.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Also an article from Travel Weekly on LHR-USA

BD have been yearning to enter the LHR-USA market and if Bermuda II is rectified some predict 4-6 new long haul aircraft will be dedicated to the US market.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
What is clear is that medium/long haul is the future for bmi at LHR and that some less profitable short haul routes at LHR could be at risk, unfortunately routes like MME seem to be at risk in my opinion. Good to see possible A330 orders from bmi though

Focus will shift to medium haul routes with flight times similar to DME. Flights to places like IST, CAI, LCA, KWI, etc have been thrown around.

And yes flights to MME and LBA will probably suffer cutbacks if BD can't secure more slots at LHR.

Quoting LS737 (Reply 15):
The best advice you can have is to avoid bmi like the plague.

Any particular reason why?

Quoting LS737 (Reply 15):
Things are so bad that they're now using ER4s on weekday flights between MAN and LHR!

It depends on operations and yields. If an A320 would be needed to fly to e.g. AMS or DUB and an ER4's capacity sufficed the demand on a particular (22 minute) flight to MAN, then so be it.

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 16):
Many thanks for a great reply Horus, and very glad to hear your experiences last week went well given the hassle in DUB everyday last week (or so it seemed). Def keeping the C class on the DUB flight has helped them in yields I'd say. My Christmas flight was with them because I was in F with AA from JFK-LHR, and even though EI is (was) a oneworld partner, AA have changed connecting flights to BD on that sector to allow pax continue the routing in C class.

Cheers for the update, and hopefully they continue the improvements. (A few extra A330's would def. help them because a lot of moaning on here has been about the lack of consistency on their long-haul products. i.e. A330/B757/B767 etc...)

You're most welcome Pilot21. The B757 issue raised many eyebrows within the company itself and it's unlikely to ever be repeated. The Arkefly B763, is a temporary measure however the aircraft has a higher number of C class seats than the A332 which perfectly suits the KSA market. Nigel Turner stated, "Our decision to also increase the number of business seats on our services to Saudi Arabia is also proving to be a good strategic move. It enables us to specifically address the increased demand for higher yield business class passengers to the region."

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 17):

Bermuda II won't allow this though in it's current form correct?

Yes only BA, VS, UA, AA, AI, KU and NZ are allowed to fly LHR-US flights at the moment.

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 19):
As I asked before, why does BMI continue to play 3rd fiddle at LHR when they could be top dog in Manchester?

...

Quoting Horus (Reply 9):
MichiganMAN, BD has never made secret of the fact that LHR long haul is where they see the profit (greater demand and more lucrative) and that MAN long haul flights (despite being a niche market) are only a stop-gap until then. Internal 'talk' suggest that LHR-US flight (namely LHR-JFK/ORD) could be launched as early as Autumn06 if the Bermuda II treaty is rectified (they are in a much better position than their US counterparts since they have lucrative LHR slots). There's talk that 2 A332s will be ordered along with the acquisition of two ex-LH A343s. If the latter plans go ahead BD can theoretically maintain their MAN long haul flights (considering how well they're doing) whilst growing their LHR long hauls services.

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:59 pm

I fly DUB-LHR on bmi more often than not and unfortunately it is a lottery.
You can either get the most charming cabin crew and the nicest of flights or either get mean old dragons.

Check-in is not done by bmi but by Aviance...need I say more ?

UTA  checkeredflag 
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
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RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:42 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 12):
What are there load factors in general nowadays on the BOM route?

Here's information for the next few days
14/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J6 I0 U9 L9 Z2 Y9 S9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G3 W3 T3 N0 E0 X0
15/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J0 I0 U9 L9 Z0 Y9 S9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G1 W1 T0 N0 E0 X0
16/July: BD781 LHRBOM C6 D3 J0 I0 U9 L9 Z5 Y9 S9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q7 V7 G1 W1 T1 N0 E0 X0
17/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D6 J2 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z5 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G2 W2 T2 N0 E0 X0
18/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J7 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z3 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G9 W9 T9 N0 E0 X0
19/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J8 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z6 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G9 W9 T8 N0 E0 X0
20/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J2 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z0 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V1 G1 W1 T0 N0 E0 X0
21/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J0 I0 S6 L6 U2 Z0 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V0 G0 W0 T0 N0 E0 X0

Seems open in all classes, except next Thursday/Friday - which seem reasonably booked.

Is this week off season? Or is the flight really going this empty?

Note: From BMI's web site, G, T and N earn only 25% miles (so must be the cheapest buckets), while B, K, M, H, O, Q, V, W, E are the standard economy buckets, and C, D, J, S, U, L, Y are J/Y+ fares codes. I, Z, X are reward/upgrade booking codes.
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BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:11 pm

The general feeling appears to be that things are starting to look rather rosier then they have been for quite some time now. Their end of year results for the group show pre-tax profits up, cash reserves up, debt down from £120m to £80m, RPK up, and all of this with three more aircraft than the previous year and with passenger loads and overall load factor remaining similar to the year before.

For many years BD has been whining on about BII and the injustices of it, but without really following an alternative path. A bit like an indignant child; "...but it's not fair!". Then they got a bit lost with many different business models apparently being paraded around at the same time and quite simply, confusing everyone.

Yes indeed, lobby for change to BII but don't let the rest of the business go to pot around it. I for one wish them well and I hope this more positive trend continues. I worked with BD for 8 years and ended up leaving in rather acrymonious circumstances, but even so I have many friends still with BD and I wish them and the company well.

They used to be great and they still can be again.

Edit for typo.

[Edited 2006-07-13 12:13:46]
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 27):
For many years BD has been whining on about BII and the injustices of it, but without really following an alternative path. A bit like an indignant child; "...but it's not fair!". Then they got a bit lost with many different business models apparently being paraded around at the same time and quite simply, confusing everyone.

Precisely, there are other opportunities out there for BD, and it would be prudent to capitalise upon these and grow, leaving them in a better position to operate to the US at a later date.

ORD and LAS are doing well apparently, so a bit of considered growth from MAN would be nice to see.
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:29 pm

I have flown a couple of times DUB-LHR-DUB recently. Service comparable with Ryanair but on time performance much worse.
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:02 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 29):
Service comparable with Ryanair

A bit harsh in my opinion, but I wasn't there. Perhaps you/they were having an "off" day!
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
cainanuk
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 4:05 pm

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 26):
Here's information for the next few days
14/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J6 I0 U9 L9 Z2 Y9 S9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G3 W3 T3 N0 E0 X0
15/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J0 I0 U9 L9 Z0 Y9 S9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G1 W1 T0 N0 E0 X0
16/July: BD781 LHRBOM C6 D3 J0 I0 U9 L9 Z5 Y9 S9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q7 V7 G1 W1 T1 N0 E0 X0
17/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D6 J2 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z5 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G2 W2 T2 N0 E0 X0
18/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J7 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z3 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G9 W9 T9 N0 E0 X0
19/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J8 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z6 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G9 W9 T8 N0 E0 X0
20/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J2 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z0 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V1 G1 W1 T0 N0 E0 X0
21/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J0 I0 S6 L6 U2 Z0 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V0 G0 W0 T0 N0 E0 X0

Seems open in all classes, except next Thursday/Friday - which seem reasonably booked.

Is this week off season? Or is the flight really going this empty?

It is also monsoon season and the loads are always quieter at this time of year.
Cainan Cornelius
 
lhrmaccoll
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:12 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting LS737 (Reply 15):
Things are so bad that they're now using ER4s on weekday flights between MAN and LHR!

I suppose you are reffering to load factors?
Otherwise its a great little AC to fly that sector on.
I've done it 6 or 7 times since April
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 26):
I, Z, X are reward/upgrade booking codes.



Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 31):
It is also monsoon season and the loads are always quieter at this time of year.

And if I count correctly there are 21 reward/upgrade seats available over a week! Glad I'm not in their FF plan.
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 26):
Here's information for the next few days
14/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J6 I0 U9 L9 Z2 Y9 S9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G3 W3 T3 N0 E0 X0
15/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J0 I0 U9 L9 Z0 Y9 S9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G1 W1 T0 N0 E0 X0
16/July: BD781 LHRBOM C6 D3 J0 I0 U9 L9 Z5 Y9 S9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q7 V7 G1 W1 T1 N0 E0 X0
17/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D6 J2 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z5 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G2 W2 T2 N0 E0 X0
18/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J7 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z3 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G9 W9 T9 N0 E0 X0
19/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J8 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z6 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V9 G9 W9 T8 N0 E0 X0
20/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J2 I0 S9 L9 U9 Z0 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V1 G1 W1 T0 N0 E0 X0
21/July: BD781 LHRBOM C9 D9 J0 I0 S6 L6 U2 Z0 Y9 B9 K9 M9 H9 Q9 V0 G0 W0 T0 N0 E0 X0

Seems open in all classes, except next Thursday/Friday - which seem reasonably booked.

Is this week off season? Or is the flight really going this empty?

An availability dispay such as this doesn't tell you how booked a flight is, simply that there are 9+ seats left for sale in that booking class. The above flights could be oversold and still show 9 in every class, depending on the overbooking profile.
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:36 pm

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 34):
An availability dispay such as this doesn't tell you how booked a flight is, simply that there are 9+ seats left for sale in that booking class. The above flights could be oversold and still show 9 in every class, depending on the overbooking profile.

Good point. Is there any better way to find out the actual loads on the flight?
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planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:57 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 24):
Indeed it was. The new dedicated Business class that will be launched for the route will give them an excellent edge over BA and SU (BD's seat pitch will be 41" compared to BA's 34" and SU's 38"). Belly cargo is expected to improve the route's revenue.

Will this business cabin also be transferred onto DUB/BHD/GLA/EDI/BRU flights? Or will it just be on one A320? If it is only on one aircraft, it seems a bit sill to me.
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:21 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 35):
Is there any better way to find out the actual loads on the flight?

Not really, unless you know someone who works for the airline directly who would have access to such information. Reservations staff, Ticket Desk staff, Revenue Management staff for example.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
SAA346
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:00 pm

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:48 pm

Flew LHR>EDI 02-Jul and EDI>LHR 07-Jul - flights full.

But service (after connecting in/out with SAA) - I was flying on a pair of etickets.

1. SAA couldn't book me thru to EDI due to an issue with BMI's res system.
2. BMI check in wouldn't issue a boarding pass on an eticket (damn near missed my flight)
3. Wish I'd known BMI were an LCC without breakfast, coffee except by paying etc...
4. Checkin on reverse BMI messed up the fare classes so I know have to claim back miles with SAA (never that easy)
5. Hassles at EDI with a *Gold card trying to get into the lounge

Dislike LHR on a good day so next time via FRA to EDI!
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:56 pm

Quoting SAA346 (Reply 38):
I was flying on a pair of etickets.

So "seperate" tickets then? If that is the case, then no carrier is obliged to through check. Many have however done so in the past and may still do as BD did in the past also, but BD reviewed their policy last year and decided to no longer interline passengers and baggage unless both portions of the journey were ticketed on the same document.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
SAA346
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:00 pm

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:02 pm

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 39):
both portions of the journey were ticketed on the same document.

Thanks BDKLEZ, I live and learn  Smile
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:39 pm

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 39):
but BD reviewed their policy last year and decided to no longer interline passengers and baggage unless both portions of the journey were ticketed on the same document.

For no apparent valid reason. There is virtually no additional cost or effort to through check pax baggage (which is wny everyone except BD actually do it).

Quoting SAA346 (Reply 38):
1. SAA couldn't book me thru to EDI due to an issue with BMI's res system.

When did you book this ? This is most odd, because SA and BD share the same Res system. Do you know what the problem actually was ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:45 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 41):
There is virtually no additional cost or effort to through check pax baggage

Yes, but when these bags go missing in the notoriously unreliable LHR baggage transfer system, then the cost of repatriating these bags to their respective owner can be huge. In my day at BD, to get ones bags back to their owner was costed at £75.00 per bag. These sums start to add up.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 42):
Yes, but when these bags go missing in the notoriously unreliable LHR baggage transfer system, then the cost of repatriating these bags to their respective owner can be huge. In my day at BD, to get ones bags back to their owner was costed at £75.00 per bag. These sums start to add up.

If that's the case, why do BD also refuse to interline via CDG, FRA, MAN etc ? There's a simple answer here - instead of reducing already minimal customer service because you can't deliver it reliably, how about improving delivery ? Or at least offer pax the option to pay for it as an additional option - same goes for seat selection, meals etc. You can't be a full-service carrier for some selling classes and an LCC for others. If you're going to play that game, at least give the poor pax a chance to upsell to a service level they're prepared to pay for.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 43):
You can't be a full-service carrier for some selling classes and an LCC for others

This is precisely the point. BD have for the last number of years been seemingly unaware of what or where their core business is. Mixing BD main-line with LCC & regional and of course long-haul, the customer has become confused about what to do and what to expect.

I do feel that they have begun to realise this and are starting to react to the situation, however I will concede that the situation should never have gotten to where it is in the first place.

I fairly and squarely put the blame for this at the door of senior management who have apparently been blind to the impending revolt by the travelling public.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
panam330
Posts: 1967
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting LS737 (Reply 15):
Things are so bad that they're now using ER4s on weekday flights between MAN and LHR!

Gasp! You'd never survive in the US with that type of aircraft on such a route!  Wink Seriously, if the loads don't warrant it, why waste a mainline aircraft? They wouldn't put an ER4 on it if they could fill an A320.
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 41):
There is virtually no additional cost or effort to through check pax baggage (which is wny everyone except BD actually do it).

There is the additional cost of
1 - using the airports baggage transfer facility
2 - employing baggage staff to sort the bagagge between transfer and local bags
3 - taking the transfer bags to the other airlines
4 - repatriating bagagge with it's owner when things go wrong

All of these costs are reflected in the price paid on interline tickets. bmi still offer through check of bagagge for those passengers who purchase interline tickets and have therefore paid for this extra service. If you want this service then pay for it. If you want cheaper fares, pick up your bags in LHR and recheck them yourself with the onward carrier.
 
mhodgson
Posts: 4673
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:47 pm

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 45):
Gasp! You'd never survive in the US with that type of aircraft on such a route! Wink Seriously, if the loads don't warrant it, why waste a mainline aircraft? They wouldn't put an ER4 on it if they could fill an A320.

Problem is, they used to have the loads to justify an A320/321!
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 47):
Problem is, they used to have the loads to justify an A320/321!

Exactly... They used to.

bmi's profits this year have come from bmibaby division which is doing quite well.
But they have a fleet of A320/1 from LHR which dont fly full to anywhere any of the time.

But they used to be always full or fuller than now.

I think they are holding out with the A320/1 at LHR in BII changes coming and ending the BA/AA virtual domination on NYC.

If they do and bmi get the US routes, then the connections for the A320/1 become invaluable.. only bmi and ba would be able to offer LHR to US / EU
connections.

However Laker too held out for better LHR long range access in the 1980's with the A300's and look what happened to them.

Personally given UA's near extinction at LHR a good bmi operation to the states would make my Stargold earning potential much easier !
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Whats The Story With BMI?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:03 am

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 46):
All of these costs are reflected in the price paid on interline tickets. bmi still offer through check of bagagge for those passengers who purchase interline tickets and have therefore paid for this extra service. If you want this service then pay for it. If you want cheaper fares, pick up your bags in LHR and recheck them yourself with the onward carrier.

Perhaps passengers are resistent to paying these so-called "interline fares" because they get precious little for the extra money. After all, if I'm flying an airline that claims to be part of the largest airline alliance on Earth, I would expect as a matter of course that if I'm connecting to another member of the alliance, BD will take care of it - through check me, and interline my bags. End of story. Why should I have to wade through yards of fine print to find out whether this basic customer service is going to be offered to me or not. If you are going to segment your market, you need to be very careful to make it absolutely crystal clear to your punters what they will get for their money. The utter chaos that is BD's product just confuses people

- "Will I get food on board ?"

Answer: Yes, if the flight is operated by an ERJ, in which case food will be for sale if you bought your ticket in the BD website, but not if you bought your ticket for exactly the same flight on the BMIBaby website. If the flight is operated by mainline aircraft, then no you won't, unless we've loaded catering by mistake, in which case you might, if our automatic seat assignment process has seated you in rows 6-12, otherwise not. Confused ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers