bristolflyer
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If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:13 pm

So supposing you're refused entry into a country by the aiport immigration peeps. What happens about getting a return flight? I assume the passenger has to pay for it, but does the airline charge the usual high last minute price or do they cut the pax a deal?

And what happens if the flights are not regular or full - does the passenger stay in the airport waiting?

BF
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lredlefsen
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:37 pm

If trying to enter the US, the airline that brought you there is responsible for getting you back out. How they recover their expenses is the airline's problem as far as the US govt is concerned. (And that makes sense, if you ask me.)

This is one reason why airlines check your immigration credentials into the US pretty carefully at checkin (even before Sept 11, 2001) -- the airline has an economic incentive not to transport people who will be denied entry, and therefore go home on the airline's nickel.

I suppose the airline can try to get you to pay for the flight back... but in many cases, they're not going to get very far.
 
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Amwest2United
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
So supposing you're refused entry into a country by the airport immigration peeps. What happens about getting a return flight? I assume the passenger has to pay for it, but does the airline charge the usual high last minute price or do they cut the pax a deal?

And what happens if the flights are not regular or full - does the passenger stay in the airport waiting?

If an Airline allows a customer to fly into a country and the country refusing them entry, the Arline is responsible to carry the said customer out of that country. If the return flight is not for several hours or even a day, the said customer will be detained by the immigration "peeps", then turned back over to the airline. The airline MUST carry the customer on the 1st flight out of the country, period! If the airline has to deny boarding to another customer, they must do that. It is up to the airline to insure everything is in order. If the country of entry denies a customer due to the airlines failure to insure the customer has all the correct paperwork, the airline will get levied a fine.
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folov
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:23 pm

I always found it funny that the airline are responsible for the PAX if refused in the US... We get some that are refused because they overstayed 10years ago... or got arrested in past vacation... how are we suppose to know that....

When check in someone to Australia, they have submitted their information with an ETA... if they tried to check in the system will say do not board...
Or to new zealand, as you enter an APS, the system will refused the pax or ask you to contact them....

I think this is great

As per the US, you get sent to secondary and 2 hours a call is made to the airline telling to book them on the next flight.... if they have a return ticket great... if not your lost...

Recently we had a pax who was depoted back to his country...if moved to the US 4 years ago, and flew in with us... We had to pay for his tkt, the escorts plus their hotel...
How fair is this
 
baron95
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 1):
I suppose the airline can try to get you to pay for the flight back... but in many cases, they're not going to get very far.

That is rarelly an issue as most passangers (except business travellers unlikely to be returned) purchase a round-trip, non-refundable ticket - so they fly you back on your ticket.
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COSPN
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:54 pm

Usally Return or Onward ticket is required unless holding a "greencard" (US Perm resident card)
 
ikramerica
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting FOLOV (Reply 3):
Recently we had a pax who was depoted back to his country...if moved to the US 4 years ago, and flew in with us... We had to pay for his tkt, the escorts plus their hotel...
How fair is this

May not sound fair, but it is the cost of doing business internationally. Airlines know this when they start service to the USA.

Fairness is not equal to logic. Fairness only means that you know the rules going into a situation and you choose to enter the situation knowing those rules and play by them. So an airline knows these are the rules, and thus it is fair to make them play by them, no matter how illogical the rules may be.
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aerorobnz
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:03 pm

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 1):
If trying to enter the US, the airline that brought you there is responsible for getting you back out.

That's any country. I have been working at the gate with flights up to 14 deportees. That's those without correct visas,deportees that have overstayed etc.

The deportees can be locked up until they can fit the passenger on due to loads, but unless there's a specific reciprical agreement on other airlines to carry UPs the airline must uplift at their earliest convenience.
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SFOMEX
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:18 pm

I read somewhere that if you are refused entry, the immigration officer would still stamp your passport with a big indication that your entry was denied. Is that true?
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NZ8800
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 8):
I read somewhere that if you are refused entry, the immigration officer would still stamp your passport with a big indication that your entry was denied. Is that true?

As far as I know, yes it is - likely quite a few countries do it. And if you've been careless enough not to check that you comply with the entry requirements to a foreign country - you deserve to have the book thrown at you.
If you get one of those stamps, it can make it difficult to enter any country after that - and you may be formally deported as well. One of THOSE stamps means you need to apply for a visa pretty much anywhere you go after that.

As to the rest - it is per the above. If you check the entry requirements for almost any country, it is the airline's responsibility at the end of the day to ensure each passenger they carry has complied with the entry requirements; and if they haven't they must deny them boarding.

Not only do they have to take the passenger back to the originating airport on the first available flight, they also get fined - often around $5000 per passenger, although this varies from country to country.

When I went to Syria each passenger had their passport details and visas very carefully checked by Austrian staff at Vienna Schwechat, before we were allowed to board the flight to Damascus.

As another example, here is part of the requirements for a visit to Tonga, info supplied courtesy of the ICAO via Virgin Atlantic's website. This is for a New Zealand passport holder - requirements for other nationals may vary.

Passport required (must be valid for at least 3 months upon
arrival).

Visa required, which can be obtained on arrival for touristic
purposes only, free of charge, for a stay of max. 31 days
(extension possible).

Visitor must hold:
- return/onward ticket; and
- all documents required for next destination; and
- sufficient funds to cover stay.

If holding one-way ticket, a multiple entry visa issued prior
to arrival is required.

Non-compliance with entry regulations (i.e. expired passports)
will result in a fine of TOP 5,000.- for transporting carrier.


5000 pa'anga is around US$2450


The final responsibility though, ends with the passenger. No travel agent or insurance company will be likely to assist with this sort of problem - it's up to the individual traveller to check visa requirements, or if they're a child/incapacitated, the person caring for them.

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
So supposing you're refused entry into a country by the aiport immigration peeps. What happens about getting a return flight? I assume the passenger has to pay for it, but does the airline charge the usual high last minute price or do they cut the pax a deal?

And what happens if the flights are not regular or full - does the passenger stay in the airport waiting?

No charge to the passenger - the airline is responsible for taking them back to where the flight originated from as soon as a seat is available, even if it means bumping a confirmed passenger off. If the next flight is not for several days (as is the case in several Pacific Island countries, for example), the passenger may be held in jail until the next available flight.
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57AZ
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:33 pm

The rationale behind most immigration laws dates back to the steamship age. If you examine the history of immigration and the steamship companies, the laws of the United States in the 19th century then required that persons refused entry into the United States would be returned to their country of origin at the expense of the steamship line. Many progressive lines instituted programs where immigrants to the United States would be quarintined for several days and examined by the company's own medical team as part of their fare. That allowed them to identify immigrants likely to be refused entry before they got onto the ship, costing the company the expense of a return passage and preventing other healthy immigrants from being exposed to potentially contagious and costly illnesses. Vetting such as checking immigration credentials is nothing new in this sense-just good business sense.

Also, I would have to look up the specific code but I believe (if memory serves correctly) that it requires that the person be returned on the next departure to their country of origin. How the company handles the return is their own problem as it is their fault that the person was transported from the cuontry of origin to begin with. Whenever someone asks me how to find out what the travel requirements are for a foreign country that they intend to visit, I tell them to contact either the US Department of State or the destination country's US Consulate for those details.
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Joni
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:42 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 8):
I read somewhere that if you are refused entry, the immigration officer would still stamp your passport with a big indication that your entry was denied. Is that true?

Of course, a deportee can get a new passport to get rid of the stamp, or simply tear the page out.
 
legacy135
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:49 pm

Actually it's not only the US, where the carrier is responsable to have it's PAX with valid documents. Without consulting my manuals, it's about everywhere I can remember, like this. The US may only be outlined here, as they are for many of us the best known place for checking relatively strict and applying straight rules, but other countries do the same. Swiss authorities for example do have a special force, checking people being suspect for traveling without valid documents right after leaving the aircraft. Only this way they can send unadmitted individuals right back to the airplane.

US immigrations explained me, that the visa wayver program, as in use with most European countries and others, is not only a contract signed by the countries, than also between the carrier and the US governement. The carrier must assure to transport anybody refused to enter right back. This also explains, why me for example, as a Swiss need to have a visa if I want to enter the US by car or private airplane. The visa waiver is only applicaple if an authorized carrier is involved.

Cheers
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SA7700
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:51 pm

What happens when you have a valid visa, have no "record" (per se) of overstaying, sufficient funds, etc. and you are still refused entry into a particular country?


Rgds

SA7700
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RP TPA
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:20 pm

Besides the expense the airlines incur in sending an inadmissible passenger back, there's also the issue of fines levied. In Canada, if someone is denied entry due to insufficient documents (usually not having a required visa) then not only are they returned from where they came from, but the airline that transported them is fined something like $3000.
 
Robbie86
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:46 pm

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 12):
The visa waiver is only applicaple if an authorized carrier is involved.

Who are the carriers then? I've been wondering about that for some time now.
 
manu
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:11 pm

Quoting Joni (Reply 11):
simply tear the page out

There is a reason passport pages are numbered, for this reason. You will get a stamp saying your denied entry and it usually goes on a page specifically designated for this purpose. Getting a new passport would be the only way.

In Canada I know there was an issue with people traveling to Canada destroying all documentation en-route and landing with no passport or ID and claiming refugee status. The airline saw one when they boarded. I have had a Canadian Immigration Officer check all IDs exiting an aircraft once, I suspect for this reason.
 
RobertS975
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:17 pm

Then there is the problem of some countries where you technically need a visa, but the visa can be obtained at the destination airport. Does the carrier allow you to board to even get to that destination airport?
 
phollingsworth
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:19 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 13):
What happens when you have a valid visa, have no "record" (per se) of overstaying, sufficient funds, etc. and you are still refused entry into a particular country?

My guess is that the same still applies. A visa does not give one the right to enter a country only the right to apply at the port of entry. In the US with a non-immagrant visa you must still prove to the immigration officer that you intend to leave the country prior to the expiration of your authority. This seems to cause problems with people that come here many times in one year.
 
bristolflyer
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:02 pm

Thanks for your input everyone. I travelled from Belfast to Phoenix on Sunday and CO certainly checked my details before leaving Belfast.

Quoting Joni (Reply 11):
Of course, a deportee can get a new passport to get rid of the stamp, or simply tear the page out.

As Manu said the pages are numbered, and I think there's also a statement in the passport saying 'this passport has 35 numbered pages'. As for getting a new passport I got a new British passport last week and I think I read that you can only get a new one if yours is due to expire within 9 months. Of course you could always say that it was stolen I guess.

BF
Fortune favours the brave
 
BDL2DCA
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 9):
the airline is responsible for taking them back to where the flight originated from as soon as a seat is available, even if it means bumping a confirmed passenger off.

For all of you who ask about preclearance in Ireland pending departure for the US, this explains why it exists. In prior decades, so many Irish were buying tickets to the US without having valid entry paperwork. The airlines did due dilligence in DUB and SNN, but still many, many passengers got through. That is why everyone goes through an immigration check prior to departure from Ireland.

Interestingly enough, this is much less of an issue these days, as Ireland has one of the highest rates of reverse migration in the world, but yet immigration preclearance still exists.
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FlyingColours
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:34 am

I could have swore it was illegal to tear pages out or deface a passport.

Quoting Manu (Reply 16):
Canada I know there was an issue with people traveling to Canada destroying all documentation en-route and landing with no passport or ID and claiming refugee status

We still have that problem here, the best way IMHO is to collect everyones passport once they are on the aircraft and hand them out as they leave the aircraft. Or they display it as they leave the aircraft (and are still airside). An airline tried the former once and all hell broke loose but I think its the best way to deal with this. Either that or just send them back to wherever the flight originated (although you can't do that either).

There was a case a few weeks ago of a little old lady flying from Manchester (UK) to Varna, Bulgaria. She had a British Passport but her's said "British Subject" instead of Citizen (I believe she was Irish). Before she even made it to passport control she was taken into a room for questioning and then rushed back onto the waiting A320 which was empty, just the crew.

Phil
FlyingColours
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Outlier
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 21):
her's said "British Subject" instead of Citizen (I believe she was Irish).

What is this subject vs citizen thing all about?
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:46 am

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 1):
If trying to enter the US, the airline that brought you there is responsible for getting you back out. How they recover their expenses is the airline's problem as far as the US govt is concerned. (And that makes sense, if you ask me.)

This is one reason why airlines check your immigration credentials into the US pretty carefully at checkin (even before Sept 11, 2001) -- the airline has an economic incentive not to transport people who will be denied entry, and therefore go home on the airline's nickel.

I suppose the airline can try to get you to pay for the flight back... but in many cases, they're not going to get very far.

What happens if the pax is travelling on a fake passport which even the immigration officers at the point of embarkation, could not detect.....but the US inmmigrations identify it as a fake.....

In such a case, would the airline still be liable? They did their best to ensure that the pax are all legitimate......any ideas????
 
SA7700
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 21):
We still have that problem here, the best way IMHO is to collect everyones passport once they are on the aircraft and hand them out as they leave the aircraft.

IMHO that would be the recipe for a logistical disaster, especially on a fully packed widebody. Most passengers will be unable to complete arrival documentation, due to lack of passports in their personal possession on planes, disembark at their arrival airports and most likely face chaos. Personally I do not like the idea of handing over my passport to an unknown person for an extended period of time.  twocents 


Rgds

SA7700
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apodino
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:22 am

Something like this happened to my parents a couple of years ago. Due to a blizzard hitting the northeast, American cancelled their flight into Miami which was going to take them to their cruise ship. After spending the whole day getting a tour of the southwest route system, they ended up in Ft. Lauderdale. The next day my dad went to the American Airlines ticket office in Ft. Lauderdale, and the agent rebooked them on a flight from Miami to Belize City, which was the first port of call for the cruise ship that they had missed.

My parents had only brought necessary documentation for travel on the cruise ship, which differed from the requirements by air. Upon landing in Belize, immigration detained them because they had bad documentation. After a bit of negotiating, the agent finally let them in after paying a single day visa fee.


That being said, the airlines can check documentation all they want, but it is not their responsibility to enforce the border laws, that still is up to Homeland Security. Its not the airlines fault if all the documentation is in order, but the person gets denied entry at the border for some reason. Thats why I don't agree with fines in all situations.
 
FlyingColours
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting Outlier (Reply 22):
What is this subject vs citizen thing all about?

I don't know, I think it may have been some kind of scheme to identify Foreigners who have GB Passports with Citizens who were Born here. But that is a very unsubstantiated guess.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 24):

I can see your point but if people are going to keep flushing their passports down the toilets then shoving them back on the plane without paperwork is the only alternative to combating the problem.

I really can't say for sure though as I don't work for a scheduled airline and pretty much 98% of my passengers are all part of a tour op package.

Phil
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bristolflyer
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting Manu (Reply 16):
In Canada I know there was an issue with people traveling to Canada destroying all documentation en-route and landing with no passport or ID and claiming refugee status.

So the passenger is standing in line at the immigration desk at an aiport having just got off a plane and doesn't have a passport? Man, that would take some explaining!

"Well, officer, it's like this. The plane ran out of toliet paper and the nearest thing to hand was my passport and immigration documents."

BF
Fortune favours the brave
 
ORDagent
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 23):
What happens if the pax is travelling on a fake passport which even the immigration officers at the point of embarkation, could not detect.....but the US immigrations identify it as a fake.....

In such a case, would the airline still be liable

You betcha! When I worked for American we were trained on how to scrutinize passports. The INS staff were somewhat flexible when it came to levying fines. They were usually up to $10,000.00 per occurrence. I once had a woman attempt to come in on somebody elses passport and we were fined as the agent in London should have noticed the fraud. If we had a client that was denied entry for reasons that were not able to be specifically determined by the boarding agent they may waive the fine. Begging often helped particularly if we sent a female agent with a short skirt. Sexist I know but it worked. We had passengers connecting on us from Indonesia and on to Canada. They would shred and flush the documents en route from ORD to YYZ and request asylum in Canada. We had to strain the blue water to find the documents showing that we did screen them properly. We also had TROVS (transit without visa) passengers coming in from Mexico and other countries that we had to literally escort from INS to the connecting flight out of the country. Sometimes they bolted and ran out of the terminal. We had to report this as well but we weren't held responsible. The most important thing as far as an agent was concerned is that the computer systems at AA showed who checked the passenger in and the error could be tracked to you!
 
BDL2DCA
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Outlier (Reply 22):
What is this subject vs citizen thing all about?

It's a legacy of the Empire.

Not always the most accurate source, but you get the gist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject

If she was indeed Irish (quoting Wikipedia):
"In the third category were mainly people born before 1949 in the Republic of Ireland, India and Pakistan who did not acquire citizenship of their country or any other Dominion (in the case of those born in India and Pakistan), or who applied after 1949 for restoration of their British subject status (for those connected with Ireland)."

What that seems to mean is she was living in the UK as a British Subject since 1949 and never acquired Republic of Ireland or British citizenship.
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Geo772
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:42 am

Often when a person intends to file for asylum they will board with al the correct paperwork which will go missing in flight. Quite often when this happens the documents can be found in waste bins or more commonly toilet waste pipes and tank filters, although sometimes not until some time after.

I don't know how other countries work but certainly in the UK immigration will let someone through for a week or so and deny them a longer term stay which had been origianlly requested. This always seems strange to me because if they have doubts as to the intentions of the person I would have thought it would be easier to deny them altogether rather than risk them going awol within the country.
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YULWinterSkies
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 23):
What happens if the pax is travelling on a fake passport which even the immigration officers at the point of embarkation, could not detect.....but the US inmmigrations identify it as a fake.....

In such a case, would the airline still be liable? They did their best to ensure that the pax are all legitimate......any ideas????

My guess (it's only a guess) is that they are insured for this kind of situation...


Now, what would happen if a pax forgets its ID onboard and realizes that after leaving the airplane... (this actually freaks me out as I have forgotten items on board before, and I would not want this to happen to my passport...)
Are you allowed back onboard to pick it up? Does someone pick it up for you?
When I doubt... go running!
 
brons2
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 17):
Then there is the problem of some countries where you technically need a visa, but the visa can be obtained at the destination airport. Does the carrier allow you to board to even get to that destination airport?

Yes. This was the case when I visited Turkey. I flew STR-AYT on Hapag-Lloyd and was able to procure a visa upon arrival for 15 EUR.

Since I was the only American on a plane full of German tourists, there was the added side benefit of a different immigration window than the EU nationals. I was the only one at that window, whereas the other 188 passengers on the plane were processed slowly one by one at the EU window!
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
lhrmaccoll
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:13 am

Happened to my grandad while he was still alive, I can't remember why he wasn't let in, but it was something to do with communists.......

He was sent straight back
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
What happens about getting a return flight? I assume the passenger has to pay for it,

In the United States, the carrier that brings the illegal into the country is responsible for getting them out, whether or not the individual is willing or able to pay.

I suppose the airline could sue the person for the fare, but the money is a secondary consideration. Getting the person off of US soil is the first consideration.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 11):
Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 8):
I read somewhere that if you are refused entry, the immigration officer would still stamp your passport with a big indication that your entry was denied. Is that true?

Of course, a deportee can get a new passport to get rid of the stamp, or simply tear the page out.

Which is why they invented COMPUTERS. You can change passports all you want (remember, new passport, new visa application for that country) but you can still not enter that country because the record will indicate that you were rejected before.

Quoting Manu (Reply 16):
In Canada I know there was an issue with people traveling to Canada destroying all documentation en-route and landing with no passport or ID and claiming refugee status. The airline saw one when they boarded. I have had a Canadian Immigration Officer check all IDs exiting an aircraft once, I suspect for this reason.

Whenever I board an AA flight in LIM, they take your documents and make a photocopy of the document, which is then FAXED to Homeland Security and prescreened before boarding the flight. This is why they require people to show up to the airport 3 hours before the flight. It's pretty hard to fool the authorities these days.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 17):
Then there is the problem of some countries where you technically need a visa, but the visa can be obtained at the destination airport. Does the carrier allow you to board to even get to that destination airport?

These are countries that don't have a serious problem with people arriving and staying longer than they are supposed to. Heck, they may even be countries that WANT people to come and stay and help the economy.

FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
Outlier
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting BDL2DCA (Reply 29):
It's a legacy of the Empire.

Ok, I see now. Thank you!
 
legacy135
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 15):
Who are the carriers then? I've been wondering about that for some time now.

I am not aware about any airline flying regular from here (=Europe) to the US who is not approved in the visa waiver program, for sure, originating from a port of a country that is member as well.
I did as well receive publicity material from agencies in the US, offering visa waiver arrangements for corporate operators. I didn't go into it, as we and our passengers all carry valid visas, so I don't really know, how they do it. I could imagine, that they have agreements with some major airlines, that in case of, they would take the faulty passenger from that corporate flight back.

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink
 
ORDagent
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 31):
Now, what would happen if a pax forgets its ID onboard and realizes that after leaving the airplane... (this actually freaks me out as I have forgotten items on board before, and I would not want this to happen to my passport...)
Are you allowed back onboard to pick it up? Does someone pick it up for you?

It happens. We had a German kid leave his Kinderausweiss (sic) on board. We got it just before the cleaning crew pitched it! People can be really loopy and disoriented after hours and hours in the air.
 
bristolflyer
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 35):
(remember, new passport, new visa application for that country)

 confused  Not in the US. I got a new British passport last week whilst on holiday in the UK (from the US) and kept my old passport which contains my US visa. And I passed through immigration at Newark no questions on Sunday, I just had to hand in both new and old passports.

BF
Fortune favours the brave
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 39):
Not in the US. I got a new British passport last week whilst on holiday in the UK (from the US) and kept my old passport which contains my US visa. And I passed through immigration at Newark no questions on Sunday, I just had to hand in both new and old passports.

You are a British Citizen, possibly even more beloved in this country than Canadians. I was talking about the scenario where someone has their passport stamped "denied" and they ripped the page apart or threw their passport away. My point was that they wouldn't be able to avoid having to apply for a new visa and, thus, get discovered.

FLY2LIM
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 17):
Then there is the problem of some countries where you technically need a visa, but the visa can be obtained at the destination airport. Does the carrier allow you to board to even get to that destination airport?

A few years ago when I was checking in at British Airways in Denver to go to Beirut, Lebanon, the check in agent kept browsing my US passport and then asked me where my visa for Lebanon was. I told him that US citizens along with many other nationalities can get visas on arrival in the airport and he simply said "Oh okay." I then told him that I'm also a Lebanese citizen and asked him if he wanted to see my Lebanese passport as well, but he didn't care to see it.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
N1120A
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting Outlier (Reply 22):
What is this subject vs citizen thing all about?



Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 26):
I don't know, I think it may have been some kind of scheme to identify Foreigners who have GB Passports with Citizens who were Born here. But that is a very unsubstantiated guess.

No, actually, it has to do with the legacy of the monarchy. Technically, people in the UK are still SUBJECT to the will of the monarch, namely Elizabeth II, as opposed to being citizens of a republic.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
RIXrat
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:45 am

Can someone explain this. In my US passport I have many arrivals at LGW and LHR with the usual entry to Britain stamp allowing me six months stay, but no work, but there is also an annotation written in pen, "ITI" or "IT." Anybody know that this means?
 
sasA319
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:53 am

If a pax is deported back to pakistan on PIA, they ask for the cost of a ticket. If the pax cannot pay they get locked up until they get the funds from somewhere!

Very Harsh!!!
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 12):
The visa waiver is only applicaple if an authorized carrier is involved.

I dare to disagree. Several friends of mine, dual British/Canadian citizens, travel regularly to the US by car using only their British passport. None of them had ever problems while entering the US.
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N1120A
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 45):
Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 12):
The visa waiver is only applicaple if an authorized carrier is involved.

I dare to disagree. Several friends of mine, dual British/Canadian citizens, travel regularly to the US by car using only their British passport. None of them had ever problems while entering the US.

Yep, you are correct. Visa waiver applies no matter how you enter, as long as your passport meets the criteria.
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legacy135
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 45):
I dare to disagree. Several friends of mine, dual British/Canadian citizens, travel regularly to the US by car using only their British passport. None of them had ever problems while entering the US.

Then they just were lucky. I know personally about crewmembers, using their layover in Miami for a trip to Bahamas, rushing into big troubles on coming back.
Myself was flying a Citation into the US, thinking that I won't need anymore a visa, as the visa waiver rule is applied to Switzerland as to most European countries. I was lucky, I landed in Bangor/Maine, where immigrations and customs is great: The officer looked at me, said "Hey, I know you, you've been with Balair for years, but now we got a problem". He explained me the rules and then sold me a temporary waiver which costed me $ 100.- He also told me, I'd better would go now for the visa, as the second time it would be at least $ 500.- and after that he couldn't do anything for me.

I also know about another Swiss Citation, carrying German passengers, who wanted to enter at Buffalo, coming from Canada. They were not as lucky as me and were sent back.

I have Colombian friends who were in Paris and Germany, having a visa for Switzerland but not for Schengen. They just were lucky, as the officers left them pass, but it does not mean, that the rule now works like this. I also reminded them, that they could rush into problems, being in the Schengen space without the document, even though the officials left them through. Same can happen if someone gets into the US, not being in possession of the necessary documents. I personally am very careful with such things:

1. I am the guest in the other country, so I am supposed to respects the rule of the game and
2. I really want to avoid any trouble with immigrations violation, as it could lead right into a ban from the respective country.

I am not an expert in US law and I am not insisting, that my words are 100% the law. What I wrote down, is what I was told from officers. So maybe someone working with them could give us a clear statement.

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink
 
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:40 am

Legacy135,

The Visa Waiver Program applies to those coming for the purpose of tourism or business. I do not believe airline crewmembers are included as part of the program which is why you were given trouble when you entered from the Bahamas.

You can read about the Visa Waiver Program here and you will see that it is not restricted only to airline travel:

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html

It mentions that there is a $6USD fee if coming by land from Canada or Mexico.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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legacyins
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RE: If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:47 am

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 47):
So maybe someone working with them could give us a clear statement.

You were required to have a visa because you were not flying on an aircraft signatory to the visa waiver program. If you fly on LX, BA, or any other airline signatory to the visa waiver program, you can apply for admission under the visa waiver program.

BTW: As you stated, the officer gave you a waiver for that required visa and it cost you $100. That same waiver would cost you $265 today  Smile

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