manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

FR And Their Charges.

Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:37 pm

After reading an article on gva.be, where Ryanair is asscused of overcharging taxes I had a look myself and compared FR with another lowcost company, U2.

I've tried to find a flight wich both airlines operate, i.e same airports, I've also used the same dates and booked the most expensive fare available.

The flight leaves STN on july the 20th for VLC and returns on july the 27th. Here are the results.

https://www.easyjet.com/en/book/step3.asp

U2 charges a total of 9.5 pounds on taxes and charges.

http://www.bookryanair.com/skylights/cgi-bin/skylights.cgi

FR charges 26.28 pounds in total.

A similar excercise with flights leaving from LGW for DUB, comparing FR and BA gives...

http://www.bookryanair.com/skylights/cgi-bin/skylights.cgi

34.2 pounds in taxes and charges. Note that FR claims they will never, ever add fuelsurcharges. In order to make a fair comparison between taxes of both BA and FR you will need to take out 16 pounds from the figure visible in the following link, as these are fuelcharges.

BTW, For those that can read flemish  Wink . Here's the article.

http://www.gva.be/nieuws/economie/de...08D2A-9B1F-4426-8F68-E87B450AB043}

http://www.britishairways.com/travel...mestamp=0711102644&source=original

A total of 26.8 pounds in taxes.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
User avatar
ZSOFN
Posts: 1379
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:20 pm

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:44 pm

One reason I'd always look at an airline like U2 before considering FR is that they are a bit more transparent with their pricing as well as offering lower taxes.

Most people here, in fact most discerning passengers, will end up comparing the final inclusive price anyway so whilst there are PR issues surrounding taxes and charges, I don't think it really makes much difference.

I have noticed actually that lately FR have advertised full inclusive prices more often rather than their 1p "bargain" fares.
 
HBDAN
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:05 pm

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:12 pm

You really have to take into accunt the total amount taxes included. I am now looking for a flight to CAG in september and has this reaction    when trying a booking with www.alpieagles.com

VRN-CAG return:
fare 29.90 Euros
taxes 155.52 Euros
TOTAL 185.42 Euros

The fare is 16% of the total cost... or if you turn it the other way round, taxes are 520% higher then the normal fare (... and it is not a 1p ticket!)

Regards,
HBDAN

Edit: Sorry wrong airport code

[Edited 2006-07-11 13:14:12]
Next flight: hopefully soon...
 
Thomas_Jaeger
Posts: 2203
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 5:35 pm

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:33 pm

easyJet is known for charging very low tax amounts but they are not doing it right either, they typically charge too less or cross subsidize by charging more on routes with less taxes etc. I have looked into this closely about 2 and a half years ago when working for a competitor.

I have the IATA taxlist of June 2004 lying around here, I can get the most current version as well if needed, have it somewhere.

VLC departure taxes per IATA taxlist:
RS: 3.95 EUR
QV: 1.33 EUR

STN departure taxes:
GB: 5.00 GBP
UB: 6.80 GBP

This ends up being more than 9.50 GBP in any case and taxes typically increase over time.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:36 pm

Now check Wizzair or Centralwings. That's a real rip off taxes plus many other hidden fees.
 
HBDAN
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:05 pm

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:46 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 4):
Now check Wizzair or Centralwings. That's a real rip off taxes plus many other hidden fees.

Wow! A wizzair LTN-BUD return is £ 46.94 in taxes ( = 67.85 Euros)!!!!

Regards,
HBDAN
Next flight: hopefully soon...
 
HBDAN
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:05 pm

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:52 pm

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 2):
taxes 155.52 Euros

In my opinion this is a record! And keep in mind it is a domestic flight!!!

Regards,
HBDAN
Next flight: hopefully soon...
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 3):
I have the IATA taxlist of June 2004 lying around here, I can get the most current version as well if needed, have it somewhere.

VLC departure taxes per IATA taxlist:
RS: 3.95 EUR
QV: 1.33 EUR

STN departure taxes:
GB: 5.00 GBP
UB: 6.80 GBP

This ends up being more than 9.50 GBP in any case and taxes typically increase over time.

Thank you for this information. Rather weird that they undercharge taxes. Your figures also indicate that FR is overcharging, about 9.20 pounds on this particular return flight, or more than 50%.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 5):
Wow! A wizzair LTN-BUD return is £ 46.94 in taxes ( = 67.85 Euros)!!!!

Go ahead and book. Later you will discover that they billed you also for reservation fee, credit card payment fee etc. Centralwings will also add fuel surcharge (without showing it in the total to be paid).
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
credit card payment fee

FYI The FR taxes and charges I posted as an example exclude these credit card charges aswell.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:17 am

I'm just saying than FR seems to atract all the bashing while all LCCs do exactly the same.

[Edited 2006-07-11 17:18:42]
 
HBDAN
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:05 pm

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 9):
FYI The FR taxes and charges I posted as an example exclude these credit card charges aswell

Well, know I would be surprised... I have booked at least 10 flights with FR in my life and never ever have noticed a credit card charge! Isn't that controlled by your bank???

Regards,
HBDAN
Next flight: hopefully soon...
 
mhodgson
Posts: 4673
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:47 pm

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:22 am

BMI are bad for taxes too - I think it's about £48 per return flight!
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 11):

Well, know I would be surprised... I have booked at least 10 flights with FR in my life and never ever have noticed a credit card charge! Isn't that controlled by your bank???

FR charges a creditcard fee of 1.75 pounds.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
richardw
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:51 am

U2 and FR compete directly on LGW-ORK and charge the same GBP5, both hiding the real cost of charges and fees that they are paying at Gatwick.
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:24 am

Whilst misrepresentation of taxes in general is of concern, the crux of the argument isn't to do with what airlines pay to airports - which should not be surcharges and taxes anyway, they always used to be and still should be a part of the ticket price.

The key argument relates to the fact that Ryanair are charging "government imposed charges and taxes" when in fact most of the add-on do not in fact go to any government. Thus, the issue is about how airlines, Ryanair being cited in this case, are mislabeling charges and misleading customers into believing that charges are going to governments when in fact they are contributing to the operations costs of the airline.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...xml=/money/2006/07/10/cnryan10.xml

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
DYflyer
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 3:06 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 10):
I'm just saying than FR seems to atract all the bashing while all LCCs do exactly the same

DY does not add a single pence/cent in taxes/charges. What you see initially is what you pay.
Life is like a book. If you don't travel, you only read one page.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:15 am

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 15):

The key argument relates to the fact that Ryanair are charging "government imposed charges and taxes" when in fact most of the add-on do not in fact go to any government. Thus, the issue is about how airlines, Ryanair being cited in this case, are mislabeling charges and misleading customers into believing that charges are going to governments when in fact they are contributing to the operations costs of the airline.

I might have not been clear enough im my opening post, but that's indeed what FR is being accused of.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:17 am

There was an article in the paper today either the Irish Indo or evening Herald that was talking about this, all i saw was the headline - Ryanair charged 3X (thirty something) million euro in phantom charges... and it's true, all you have to do is look at the wheelchair tax, ok i know people need help and someone has to be paid to give it, but 50c on each ticket.... how many people did they carry last year?
John Hancock
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: FR And Their Charges.

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 18):
wheelchair tax, ok i know people need help and someone has to be paid to give it, but 50c on each ticket.... how many people did they carry last year?

Weelchair tax? How ridiculous is that. How is that handled by proper airlines?

FR must have carried around 30 million passengers last year, at 50 pence each, that's about 15 million pounds. More than enough to employ atleast a 1000 people, full time across their network, doing nothing but pushing weelchairs.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS

Who is online