LPLAspotter
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GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:55 am

I recall Braniff flying a 747SP from Guam to LAX during their good times. I was wondering why CO doesn't do the same since they have so many connections out of GUM to places in Asia? Any ideas, comments, etc..?

LPLAspotter
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drerx7
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:00 am

Shortage of widebodies
Low yield...though cargo might be good on it
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2travel2know
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:43 am

I would like to see CO fly IAH/EWR-ANC-GUM. The cargo loads on such a flight may be quite good.
As for GUM-Mainland U.S.A. non-stops, maybe NW out of SEA or UA out of SFO?
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thomasphoto60
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 1):
Shortage of widebodies
Low yield...though cargo might be good on it

Didn't CO operate GUM/IAH via HNL (same plane) once?

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
jmy007
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 3):
Didn't CO operate GUM/IAH via HNL (same plane) once?

Well according to Apollo, they still do.

WE 12JUL HOU / GUM Š15:00 HR
CO 1 J1 D1 Z1 Y0 IAHGUM 935A 530PŠ INTL CITIES UNAVL * 1
H0 K0 N0 B0 O0 V0 U0 Q0 I0 S0 W0 764
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ScottB
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 4):
Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 3):
Didn't CO operate GUM/IAH via HNL (same plane) once?

Well according to Apollo, they still do.

As I recall, that GUM-HNL-IAH routing (CO 1/2) generally involves a change of aircraft at HNL -- even though the flight number and aircraft type remain the same. GUM-HNL/HNL-GUM are "operated by Continental Micronesia."

Quoting LPLAspotter (Thread starter):
I was wondering why CO doesn't do the same since they have so many connections out of GUM to places in Asia?

If I recall correctly, much of the GUM flying is targeted to local O&D since GUM is a fairly popular tourist destination, especially for Japanese. It's not a terribly well-located connecting point from the U.S. to most of Asia when compared to NRT or SEL. With the two-segment IAH-HNL-GUM published as a single flight number, the connections aren't any worse in the GDS than IAH-LAX-GUM (or just IAH-GUM) might be, and U.S. Mainland to GUM would require the 777 instead of the 764.
 
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:52 am

CO has the GUM-mainland market mostly to itself and with it- all the government travel. Therefore, there's no reason to launch a nonstop mainland service.

Those passengers not willing to pay the high CO fares usually opt for JAL to the mainland where the fare is usually about $300 cheaper.
 
masseybrown
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting LPLAspotter (Thread starter):
I was wondering why CO doesn't do the same since they have so many connections out of GUM to places in Asia?

US-GUM-onward only makes sense if "onward" is in SE Asia. GUM is way off the great circle when NE Asia, where many of the GUM flights go, is the final destination.
 
Cory6188
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 5):
that GUM-HNL-IAH routing (CO 1/2) generally involves a change of aircraft at HNL

Exactly - while the aircraft type doesn't change, the aircraft itself does. I remember coming off a CO flight from LAX in HNL, and the lounge was filled with pax and a crew heading to GUM. I guess that unlike the dedicated CO Mike 738's, the 764s rotate entirely throughout the whole system.
 
vega
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 5):
As I recall, that GUM-HNL-IAH routing (CO 1/2) generally involves a change of aircraft at HNL -- even though the flight number and aircraft type remain the same. GUM-HNL/HNL-GUM are "operated by Continental Micronesia."

#1 and #2 are 767-400ERs operated by Air Micronesia and I believe are through - no change of plane flights with about a 1 hour lay-over in HNL(IAH-HNL-GUM).
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LPLAspotter
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 7):
US-GUM-onward only makes sense if "onward" is in SE Asia

That makes perfect sense. With Cairns and Bali being the only ones in that direction I guess I answered my own question.

LPLAspotter
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CALMSP
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:30 am

the a/c for the HNL-GUM segment, changes almost daily, sometimes it is the a/c from IAH, othertimes it is the plane from LAX............or it very well might be the inbound from NGO, all depending on any MX issues or dedicated MX at a station for that plane.
 
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STT757
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:34 am

Guam's economy is getting a huge boost through Government spending, here's a few items:

1.) The US and Japan recently reached an agreement that will have 8,000 Marines leave Okinawa for Guam, when you factor in their Civilian dependents and civilian contractors who provide services to the Marines and families were talking somewhere between 15,000 - 20,000 people coming to Guam in the next decade from this move alone.

2.) The US Navy is bolstering it's position on Guam at Apra Harbor, they recently permantly based 4 Los Angeles Class attack subs at Apra Harbor which also brought their families and civlian dependents with them. The US Navy is looking to bring more assets to the Pacific, they want to permantly base a Carrier to either Pearl Harbor or Guam.

3.) The Air Force is constantly upgrading and expanding Anderson AFB, the base is now the permant home to an Air Wing which hosts Wings of B-2s, B-1s, B-52s and F-22s on a rotational basis.

All these Military facilities are seeing huge amounts of investments, with more on the way. The government and Civilian traffic to Guam from Hawaii and the West Coast is growing to grow tremendously during the next decade, at the least I can see CO adding a second daily Honolulu-Guam flight.

As for nonstops to Guam from the US West Coast, if the long rumored CO/UAL merger happens I can bet a nonstop flight from LAX, SFO or both would materialize.

Outside of a CO/UAL merger the 787 offers the best possibility to date for flights to Guam from the US Mainland.
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thomasphoto60
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
if the long rumored CO/UAL merger happens

Well, for one hope that this rumor remains just that, a rumor.

Sorry for the off topic post.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
YULYMX
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:02 am

Philippine ailines fly 747-400 SFO-Gum Nonstop before flying back home.. it is a techstop going west...
 
Coronado990
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 6):
CO has the GUM-mainland market mostly to itself and with it- all the government travel. Therefore, there's no reason to launch a nonstop mainland service.

Those passengers not willing to pay the high CO fares usually opt for JAL to the mainland where the fare is usually about $300 cheaper.

I thought a foreign airline such as JAL cannot sell GUM-U.S. Mainland due to cabotage. Is that correct?
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yellekc
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:13 am

I fly between GUM and the US quite regularly, the cheapest method I found is to fly to Japan, which has tons of flights, and then get a round trip ticket out of there for under $800. A side benefit is I get to visit NRT quite regularly, that place is widebody heaven  Smile

A direct flight would be quite nice. IAH-GUM is 7446 miles, which is well within range of the 787-800. And with many more marines and their families moving there, a direct flight may be necessary.
 
dutchjet
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting LPLAspotter (Thread starter):
I recall Braniff flying a 747SP from Guam to LAX during their good times. I was wondering why CO doesn't do the same since they have so many connections out of GUM to places in Asia? Any ideas, comments, etc..?

LPLAspotter

I believe that the Braniff flight actually flew LAX-GUM-HKG....and I dont think that it lasted long enough for anyone to really notice.

I really dont see CO doing LAX-GUM nonstop......the current system works with the HNL stop; pax travelling to/from LAX and IAH make easy connections at HNL for the trip to/from GUM. And dont forget that cargo operations are a big part of this route.

As for CO setting up a larger hub at GUM to move pax to/from IAH or LAX and Asian cities, I dont think that much is gonna happen there either.....pax are really not interested in flying BOS-IAH-GUM-HKG, and those that would do it are lower yeild.

In the long term future, we could see an IAH-GUM nonstop, but for coming years, I dont see much change in CO's Air Mike operation.......is ain't broken, so why try and fix it?
 
CALMSP
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:12 am

a IAH-LAX-GUM routing would be nice. This would open up the opportunity to carry more pax/cargo on our IAH-HNL flight, along with frt on LAX-HNL. We ship a lot of cargo from Houston on to GUM, and many times, we have to split the plane with cargo on the HNL flight. 1/2 HNL frt, and 1/2 GUM frt. And of course, many times, flight 3 carries more than 50% GUM pax, tack on the 50% of pax that orginate in IAH, then maybe a LAX-GUM flight would be feasible.
 
Alias1024
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 8):
I guess that unlike the dedicated CO Mike 738's, the 764s rotate entirely throughout the whole system.

CO has a different configuration on the 764s that operate out in the Pacific. They are 20/236 instead of the 35/200 that is used for Europe.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
CALMSP
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:46 am

yes, all 767-400s are rotated throughout the entire system. We are now seeing the pacific configuration on our EWR-MAD routes.....
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:51 am

But is there really a reason why one must go to GUM besides the Millitary? I really don't think there is a demand for it? I mean GUM has what maybe 5/6 Commercial Operations a day?
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CALMSP
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:53 am

are you saying 5/6 flights a day??

traveling through GUM gets you to many islands that other airlines do not fly to.
 
JFK998
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:55 am

There definately isnt enough demand passenger wise on routings from the U.S. to Guam. Thats why no one started any flights with that routing as of yet.
 
CALMSP
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:21 pm

we can fill a flight with a routing of IAH-LAX-GUM..............but we do not have the plane to do so............we dont only ahve a one-stop through HNL, but also through NRT....there certainly is a passenger demand for a flight, along with a cargo demand.
 
yellekc
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 21):
I mean GUM has what maybe 5/6 Commercial Operations a day

5/6 flights a day?

That's way off, there are far more commercial flights than that.
The latest statistics from the GIAA (Guam International Airport Authority) show under monthly flight activity for may, 385 widebodies and 405 standard jets. That's 790 flights divided by 31 days in May, is about 25 a day.

http://www.guamairport.com/pdf/stats...%20Total%20Ending%20May%202006.pdf
 
masseybrown
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 10):
That makes perfect sense. With Cairns and Bali being the only ones in that direction I guess I answered my own question.

Manila, Cebu, Hanoi, Saigon (not even the Vietnamese call it HCM City), Bangkok, Singapore, and maybe Perth could work very well. CO just doesn't go to those places ... yet.

Edit: GUM would probably make a better cargo hub than a pax hub. I know it has been considered by a couple of players in the past.

When I was a young guy in the Navy we were studying things to do with Guam. Our conclusion was move it a thousand miles north. Since we now have no bases in the Philippines, Guam is pretty handy to have.

[Edited 2006-07-12 06:20:14]
 
diesel33
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 26):
Manila, Cebu, Hanoi, Saigon (not even the Vietnamese call it HCM City), Bangkok, Singapore, and maybe Perth could work very well. CO just doesn't go to those places ... yet.

CEB was once served and MNL is still served.
 
masseybrown
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting Diesel33 (Reply 27):
CEB was once served and MNL is still served.

Thanks for the correction.
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 26):
Manila, Cebu, Hanoi, Saigon (not even the Vietnamese call it HCM City), Bangkok, Singapore, and maybe Perth could work very well. CO just doesn't go to those places ... yet.

Those places were in the planning book before the Asian economic crisis. They, however, still fly to Manila (took it 3 years ago).

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thaiaggie
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:02 am

TG used to fly from BKK to GUM via MNL with A300. It didn't last long though
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aal0616
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:20 am

That Guam Braniff 747SP run was one of the bunch of very thin Pacific expansion routes that they started along with some very strange domestic routes post-deregulation in 1979-80 operated for a very brief time and, can be argued, accelerated their initial bankruptcy.

For now, look for Guam to continue being fed from, mainly, Japan, from which Northwest, Continental (active) and United (dormant) have authority to pass through from the USA, and, with perhaps one additional flight daily, from Honolulu on Continental, and that's it. The military family growth will likely be handled with these exisiting service patterns, and it is probably not likely that United will re-enter the market.
 
ScottB
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 21):
But is there really a reason why one must go to GUM besides the Millitary? I really don't think there is a demand for it? I mean GUM has what maybe 5/6 Commercial Operations a day?

Are you serious?

* JAL (Actually JALways/JO) has a daily 747 and a daily 767 operating NRT-GUM, as well as a daily 767 operating KIX-GUM.
* ANA operates a daily 767-300 KIX-GUM.
* Korean operates a daily 777-200 ICN-GUM and three weekly 747-400's ICN-GUM.
* Continental Micronesia operates two daily 767-400's NRT-GUM (along with 12 weekly 737-800's). They also offer two daily 737-800's to NGO, a daily 737-800 to FUK, will restart daily 737-800 service to KIX next week, and serve MNL and ROR daily as well. About a dozen other locations have less-than-daily CS service from GUM.
 
tsnamm
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 32):
400's NRT-GUM (along with 12 weekly 737-800's). They also offer two daily 737-800's to NGO, a daily 737-800 to FUK,

Dont' forget CTS...we used to run DC-10's to most of these cities...we also used to have OKA too.. we added 2 other cities in Japan as well KIJ & OKJ...we also used to run KHH in Taiwan, CEB in The Philippines, PUS in Korea, PPT Tahiti, and POM in New Guinea...thats some I can remember.
 
roseflyer
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 14):
Philippine ailines fly 747-400 SFO-Gum Nonstop before flying back home.. it is a techstop going west...

That isn't very useful. Only US airlines can fly passengers between two airports within the United States including its territories.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
ScottB
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 33):
we used to run DC-10's to most of these cities

Heck, the CO 747's were flying two daily GUM-NRT round-trips before they were retired!

Plus, I forgot that NW is operating daily 757's to KIX and NGO, as well as the 747-200 from GUM to NRT.
 
dxBrian
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:02 am

Guam is the closest US territory to Japan. Throw in the tropical weather and beaches, and you have a big tourist destination for the Japanese market. There are somewhere between 800k to 1 million Japanese tourists to Guam every year.
One problem with that market from the CO point of view is that most of their tickets are sold as part of vacation packages including hotel stays and these packages are sold in yen. The value of the yen vs the dollar has a big impact on CMI's profitability.
Due to the number of military personnel on Guam increasing, I would not be surprised to see a LAX-GUM flight in the not too distant future. Another possibility would be a 2nd HNL-GUM daily flight, which they used to operate when the military presence was much larger on Guam than it is currently.
 
dutchjet
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting DxBrian (Reply 36):
Throw in the tropical weather and beaches, and you have a big tourist destination for the Japanese market. There are somewhere between 800k to 1 million Japanese tourists to Guam every

Dont forget Golf.......I recall reading that its not unusual for Japanese businessmen to fly down to Guam for a day to play 18 holes.
 
ScottB
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting DxBrian (Reply 36):
Throw in the tropical weather and beaches, and you have a big tourist destination for the Japanese market.

I was just thinking that Guam is sort of like Aruba for the Japanese...

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 37):
Dont forget Golf.......I recall reading that its not unusual for Japanese businessmen to fly down to Guam for a day to play 18 holes.

Actually, my understanding was that it is less expensive to fly to Guam and stay for a weekend of golfing than it is to play two rounds at a course in Japan.
 
drerx7
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting DxBrian (Reply 36):
I would not be surprised to see a LAX-GUM

I would. It would have to be well after more widebodies come online. We'd probably see the 2nd flight from HNL that you postulated before LAX.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
Humberside
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 32):
Are you serious?

* JAL (Actually JALways/JO) has a daily 747 and a daily 767 operating NRT-GUM, as well as a daily 767 operating KIX-GUM.
* ANA operates a daily 767-300 KIX-GUM.
* Korean operates a daily 777-200 ICN-GUM and three weekly 747-400's ICN-GUM.
* Continental Micronesia operates two daily 767-400's NRT-GUM (along with 12 weekly 737-800's). They also offer two daily 737-800's to NGO, a daily 737-800 to FUK, will restart daily 737-800 service to KIX next week, and serve MNL and ROR daily as well. About a dozen other locations have less-than-daily CS service from GUM.

Do NW have any flights to Guam?
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ScottB
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 40):
Do NW have any flights to Guam?



Quoting ScottB (Reply 35):
Plus, I forgot that NW is operating daily 757's to KIX and NGO, as well as the 747-200 from GUM to NRT.
 
yellekc
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 40):
Do NW have any flights to Guam?

Yes they do.

Here are the daily flights I could find:

NW 73/74 operates GUM-NRT with a 747-200
NW 23/24 operates GUM-NGO with a 757
NW 79/80 operates GUM-KIX with a 757

NW 74 was the flight that collapsed it nose gear upon landing in GUM, when I flew out of there in May it was still sitting by the fence with the livery painted over and the engines removed, I know its off topic, but does anyone know what will happen to this 747?
 
CALMSP
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:36 am

either last summer, or the previous summer, we ran a 2nd HNL-GUM flight 2-3 times a week, (73 IAH-HNL-GUM) but I think that was before NGO came on board. We could do it again come winter time, when the additional frequencies to Europe drop off.
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:22 am

I went to Bali on vacation when living in PNI. On the trip back there were alot of Japanese tourists flying from DPS-GUM-Different points in Japan. The two young ladies next to me were flying DPS-GUM-FUK. The language barrier prevented me from asking them why they were flying through GUM on their way back home. Seemed to be out of the way to go to Japan so I presume that flights between Japan and Bali filled up quickly making CS as an alternative to Japanese carriers that were booked up between points in Japan and Bali.

LPLAspotter
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ScottB
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 44):
The two young ladies next to me were flying DPS-GUM-FUK. The language barrier prevented me from asking them why they were flying through GUM on their way back home. Seemed to be out of the way to go to Japan so I presume that flights between Japan and Bali filled up quickly making CS as an alternative to Japanese carriers that were booked up between points in Japan and Bali.

Well, there's also a lack of non-stop service between FUK and DPS, so it's very possible that CS either offered the most convenient times or the best price. For travel time, it's no worse than the connections through NRT, KIX, NGO, ICN, HKG, etc.
 
Mitchell Gant
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RE: GUM To US Mainland

Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:44 am

1) Waste of a valuable widebody
2) CO already owns all of USA- GUM over HNL
3) Connecting traffic would only be a factor if GUM-Asia service was daily (it is currently far from it besides secondary Japan)