malexander131
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:50 am

B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:19 am

Let me first say that I think JetBlue has a great product and I'd love to try them someday if I get the chance, but does anyone else here think that B6 is wasting money with the IFE/overhead bin upgrades? I mean, what real difference is it to the customer if you're PTV screen is an extra inch or so bigger, you've still got the upper hand over the competition.

What does everyone else here think?
"It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now."
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:24 am

Possibly, but most of the ignorant, nieve flying public will stay loyal to Jetblue. If Jetblue has a fare a few bucks more, they may remember these upgrades. That is hard to say. I love Jetblue and I think they have a great product. If they want to make it better than good for us.
 
sbnair3022
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:42 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:28 am

It doesnt make sense to me, jetBlue has an amazing product as is. Is it maybe the fact that DL is installing PTV on there ex-song 75s?
SBNair!!
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 1962
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:35 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:53 am

From what I remember, there were some issues with old style VDU's. They were burning out and having other problems as well. By installing the newer ones, there is a reduced chance of having to give out vouchers to customers for the inconvenience of not having a TV. Considering that we own LiveTV, we are not wasting money on this as the serviceable VDU's (old style) will most likely be installed on other airlines who want that size VDU (5.2" or 5.4") compared to the 6.8". It's all about making the customers happy, and a bigger screen makes them happy.

As for the larger overhead bins...have you ever noticed how much luggage people bring on board a/c? We are a NY based company and NY gets a little chilly in the winter. To fit all that luggage and all those winter coats into the smaller overhead bins would be quite a pain in the butt. This once again is focused on the comfort of our customers. It's worth the extra $$ to make your customers happy and comfortable when experiencing your product.

They may seem like little tasks that waste money, but they truly don't in the long run.

Just my  twocents  IMHO.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):

As for the larger overhead bins...have you ever noticed how much luggage people bring on board a/c? We are a NY based company and NY gets a little chilly in the winter. To fit all that luggage and all those winter coats into the smaller overhead bins would be quite a pain in the butt.

Yes, that's true and it's called "checking your bag". I don't know why airlines have let the mentality that passengers should be able to bring on everything. Not only is it a safety hazard if one of those things falls out and hits someone on the head but it's also a space issue. People rush to be on board because they know that if they aren't then if it's a full flight it's possible that there will be no overhead space left, forcing them to check the bag and increasing the chances that it doesn't make the flight, especially when close to departure.

The answer is not larger overhead bins, it's restricting the size of what people are allowed to bring on. Winter coats included.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:06 am

Outside of an operational standpoint, they advertise the youngest and most advanced fleet in the skies. With the youngest aircraft comes the youngest technology. It makes sense for them to keep up with technology advancements within their product category. I agree that it appears to be a waste of money but it's also what keeps passengers coming day in and day out and what sets them aside from any competition.

My

Matt

[Edited 2006-07-14 23:14:04]
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
jetblueatjfk
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Malexander131 (Thread starter):
I mean, what real difference is it to the customer if you're PTV screen is an extra inch or so bigger, you've still got the upper hand over the competition.

They are selling off all the old PTV's to Virgin Blue to use since Virgin Blue is getting the LiveTV service put in on their planes soon. That was B6 gets the newest technology and they get money for screens they eventually would have scarapped.

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 5):

Very well said and correct.  checkmark 

B6jfk airplane 
 
n844aa
Posts: 1266
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:38 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 4):
Yes, that's true and it's called "checking your bag". I don't know why airlines have let the mentality that passengers should be able to bring on everything.

I can't imagine airlines are very happy about the state of affairs, but I guess passenger sentiment and lax enforcement of stated restrictions have led us to where we are today.

Also, I have this little pet peeve about people who carry-on bags they can't possibly lift into the bin, but that's neither here nor there.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:30 am

As stated above the new IFE is more of a necessity. The old TVs and units where/are extremely unreliable. The credit card readers worked less than 40% of the time, the TVs had a great tendency to burn out and need replacing on an almost daily basis.

The new TVs with the upgraded seat backs look a lot more classy and are way more reliable. So far I haven't had any major issued with the new IFE as compared to the old ones. I say the IFE upgrade is a welcome and a needed upgrade if we wanted to continue our level of customer commitment.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
mnik101
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 3:43 pm

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:41 am

They are trying to improve their product. Yes, it maybe costly, but if it results in a better customer experience and loyalty, its money well spent.
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:57 am

The price of oil is hitting them hard. Unless the B6 business model changes in some way, they might be in some trouble, loyalty or not, 34" pitch, free live ptv, and sub $100 transcontinental fares? In a world of $80 oil, that kind of set up just doesn't scream profitability. I think WN and FL have the LCC model down. I think B6 offers a tremendous product, I just hope reality doesn't catch up to them too quickly.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 1962
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:35 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 10):
Unless the B6 business model changes in some way, they might be in some trouble, loyalty or not, 34" pitch, free live ptv, and sub $100 transcontinental fares? In a world of $80 oil, that kind of set up just doesn't scream profitability. I think WN and FL have the LCC model down. I think B6 offers a tremendous product, I just hope reality doesn't catch up to them too quickly.

This has been discussed in numerous forums. The fare structure has changed and a lot about how we operate has changed as well. The TV will always be free, and we will not deviate from the seating arrangement. The issues have been reviewed and are definitely being addressed...I won't go into detail since it is company info though.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
skyyblue
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:37 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
From what I remember, there were some issues with old style VDU's. They were burning out and having other problems as well. By installing the newer ones, there is a reduced chance of having to give out vouchers to customers for the inconvenience of not having a TV.

Yes this seems to be the case. Also the credit card readers in the old video moniter units seem to wear easily and you can often find a crewmember stuck trying to swipe a passengers card, over and over and over. The new units blend into the seatback better and the readers work with ease.

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
As for the larger overhead bins...have you ever noticed how much luggage people bring on board a/c? We are a NY based company and NY gets a little chilly in the winter. To fit all that luggage and all those winter coats into the smaller overhead bins would be quite a pain in the butt.

NO NO NO  . As LH423 says, CHECK IT. This is such a problem at any airline already. I don't see the need for larger bins to further spoil people. If you cant fit it under the seat, if you cant fit it in our ALREADY large overhead bins, CHECK IT!

Quoting LH423 (Reply 4):
The answer is not larger overhead bins, it's restricting the size of what people are allowed to bring on. Winter coats included.

  THANK YOU!   

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 10):
and sub $100 transcontinental fares?

Get real. Things have drastically changed and there is no such thing as SUB $100 transcon fares on JetBlue. Those days are LONG gone and probably never to return.

[Edited 2006-07-15 02:22:02]

[Edited 2006-07-15 02:22:56]
 
daisywol
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:41 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 11):
This has been discussed in numerous forums. The fare structure has changed and a lot about how we operate has changed as well. The TV will always be free, and we will not deviate from the seating arrangement. The issues have been reviewed and are definitely being addressed...I won't go into detail since it is company info though.

Lie flat sleeper seats to be installed in the first 10 rows
TV will still be free but will only have 3 channels
More to come
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 4):

The answer is not larger overhead bins, it's restricting the size of what people are allowed to bring on. Winter coats included.

That's a smart idea. Esp. for an East-Coast based airline where winter temperatures can reach below freezing. You're right, I'd love to have sick passengers for the sake of not investing in larger bins.... If you haven't noticed the economy is in the shit-can and the control factor over what airlines give and don't give (funding permitting) is no longer in the control of upper management. While we are Aviation freaks who can spit the tail numbers and names of the entire B6 fleet, simple things like 1" bigger on your TV and room for your coat are the 'make it or break it' items for average-travelers these days. You want that passenger to feel good for paying the extra $5 to fly on you today and the potential $25 extra in 6-months due to oil.

Good thinking,

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 14):
That's a smart idea. Esp. for an East-Coast based airline where winter temperatures can reach below freezing. You're right, I'd love to have sick passengers for the sake of not investing in larger bins.... If you haven't noticed the economy is in the shit-can and the control factor over what airlines give and don't give (funding permitting) is no longer in the control of upper management. While we are Aviation freaks who can spit the tail numbers and names of the entire B6 fleet, simple things like 1" bigger on your TV and room for your coat are the 'make it or break it' items for average-travelers these days. You want that passenger to feel good for paying the extra $5 to fly on you today and the potential $25 extra in 6-months due to oil.

Good thinking,

Matt

I'm speechless...welcome to my RU list!
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:50 am

The economy is as strong as it has been in a very long time and is growing. That's the facts, even if you don't like the leaders that have helped create it.

Airlines put in larger overhead bins because it reduces the need for ramp agents to unload the planes and the risk of losing bags. Since Americans are critical of airlines, there is no possibility of a complaint if the passenger doesn't have to wait for his bag in baggage claim. Further, removing luggage from the cargo bins makes room for cargo and mail. US airlines are unique in their willingness to allow passengers to carry as much on the plane as possible but it makes perfect sense from an economic and customer service perspective. And I have been on many full flights from the NE during the winter and there is still not enough room for everyone to carry on their bags.
 
jbmitt
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:59 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:04 am

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 14):
simple things like 1" bigger on your TV and room for your coat are the 'make it or break it' items for average-travelers these days. You want that passenger to feel good for paying the extra $5 to fly on you today and the potential $25 extra in 6-months due to oil.

I respectfully disagree. A tv is a tv, size doesn't matter, until the first airline offers High Def In-flight Entertainment, then I will defect. Bigger bins aren't necessary either, jackets don't count against your allowance, people just need to realize that things can be checked. Too many people fear losing bags, waiting at the claim. If airlines allowed just a personal item, think how much faster boarding and deplaning would be. Have you ever been behind that person trying to stuff the huge bag into the compartment? Bigger bins will just encourage bigger bags.
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:28 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):
The economy is as strong as it has been in a very long time and is growing. That's the facts, even if you don't like the leaders that have helped create it.

I don't disagree at all. I'm speaking in terms of pre-9/11 when airlines had money to spend and it was never on the passenger compared to now when you have funds (limited, though much more than initial post-9/11 albeit) and a wide variety of fixing. You are seeing these days, gradually, airlines are expanding in the areas that have needed it the most for the past 10 years which I tip my hat to and give 100% credit to them. However, we are not out of the word-works yet, there are still rough times ahead. As countries wage war on each other, the end result is best shown in the reaction to the stock-market and there is no guarantee that someone won't blow up another airport or raise oil to $85-$90 a barrel. Again, gain what you can now, there is no guarantee on tomorrow. When the consumer decides to crack down on their spending they're going to remember the little things like the bigger TV and the bigger bin next time they fly, just as much as they notice the extra $0.02 a gallon for their gas and the 1* on the AC.

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 17):
A tv is a tv, size doesn't matter, until the first airline offers High Def In-flight Entertainment, then I will defect.

I have to disagree as well. A TV is not just a TV. They are providing these to give to their loyal customers who will know that that 1" is there. And sure the passenger will sit and say 'wow, one inch, cool' and go about their business, the fact alone that they got them to sit and think about it makes every penny worth it. Again, makes that person feel good about investing in that airline; be it with a rewards ticket, full fair, or an employer. They will choose that airline for all of their future travel needs. We might be cool now, but there is no guarantee for tomorrow. No one saw 9/11 coming....

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 17):
Bigger bins aren't necessary either, jackets don't count against your allowance, people just need to realize that things can be checked.

You could fool them all and make the bins smaller, the same people will adjust, and the same people will abuse the system. You'll have this issue with any bin-size or any newly implemented size-restricted product.

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 17):
Have you ever been behind that person trying to stuff the huge bag into the compartment?

Every flight I go on and I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'll see it again on every other flight I go on. As stated above, an issue you'll see regardless of restrictions.

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 17):
Bigger bins will just encourage bigger bags

You're right it will, again, that's expected.

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 14):
If you haven't noticed the economy is in the shit-can and the control factor over what airlines give and don't give (funding permitting) is no longer in the control of upper management.

UH....what economy? You mean the U.S., with record low unemployment, amongst the lowest interest rates world wide, shrinking nat'l deficit, growing GNP, no inflation, record high home ownership....what exactly are you talking about? Maybe you are judging from an airliners.net geek point of view; lets see, record load factors in an over saturated market...how exactly is the U.S. economy "in the shit-can?" Try thinking about what you read before repeating it next time!
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 18):
I don't disagree at all. I'm speaking in terms of pre-9/11 when airlines had money to spend and it was never on the passenger compared to now when you have funds (limited, though much more than initial post-9/11 albeit) and a wide variety of fixing.

Ok, two things wrong with your line of thinking:

1) The economy prior to 9/11 was not as strong as it is today
2) The state of the airline industry is NOT The Economy

"When the consumer decides to crack down on their spending they're going to remember the little things like the bigger TV and the bigger bin next time they fly, just as much as they notice the extra $0.02 a gallon for their gas and the 1* on the AC."

You couldnt be more wrong in your above statement. Maybe that is your perspective, as an airline freak, but what the experts know, and what has been happening for the last decade or so, is that the leisure traveler is driven by one thing only, $$$. They have no brand loyalty, no value for added "perks" all they want it is the lowest price.

[Edited 2006-07-15 05:58:37]
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting LH423 (Reply 4):
if it's a full flight it's possible that there will be no overhead space left, forcing them to check the bag

if People would use the space under the seat infront of them and lemit them to the carry on size. thare is room for all to carry on bags....
 
B6DC10
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:57 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting LH423 (Reply 4):
Yes, that's true and it's called "checking your bag". I don't know why airlines have let the mentality that passengers should be able to bring on everything.

Question: Have you ever tried to wrestle an oversized carryon bag from a customer's death grip? You couldn't be more wrong. It is not the Airlines who feel that Customers should be able to bring everything on, It's the Customers! Many years of mishandled baggage has struck the fear of god into these people, and so they want to take everything on an airplane. TSA restrictions help, because 50% of the time, they are stopped at the checkpoint. However, even if we offer to deliver the bag to them on the jetbridge in their destination city, they would rather fight and cause a scene then check even a full size bag!
TriJet or No Jet At All...
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:26 am

A B6`s waste of money I can tell is the rebuilding of JFK`s T5  thumbsdown 
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
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RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:46 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):
Airlines put in larger overhead bins because it reduces the need for ramp agents to unload the planes and the risk of losing bags. Since Americans are critical of airlines, there is no possibility of a complaint if the passenger doesn't have to wait for his bag in baggage claim. Further, removing luggage from the cargo bins makes room for cargo and mail. US airlines are unique in their willingness to allow passengers to carry as much on the plane as possible but it makes perfect sense from an economic and customer service perspective.

While you make a good point, the fact is customers perfer bringing bags on board. I have come to loath the baggage check-in and retreval. It takes so long! The carosels are always way too crowded, etc. I prefer to fly on airlines with larger overhead bins. But that's just me.

As to the TV's... it is something that sells tickets. Does B6 get a premium for them? Not much, if any. But it does make for happier customers. Like it or not, there is a customer preference for IFE. If B6 is making sure the experience is consistent across the fleet, good for them. My girlfriend love's the live TV on B6.  Smile

As to the economy... I'm a bear. Too much of this economy has been funded by the "home ATM." (HELOCs). Look at Boston, San Diego, and now Florida... Their home prices are dropping. I expect by 2Q07 we'll unfortunately be in a recession. (I know of too many companies getting ready to do layoffs. E.g., Disney with their cut in movie production. Intel, AMD, AFMC, etc.) And yes, the normal state of the economy is growth, so we'll be ok long term. I'm talking a drop in business in '07 and probably '08. But DC, Pheonix, Las Vegas, and *most* other cities have home inventories so high they'll follow within six months too.

Maybe I'm pessimistic as my job has turned into assuring job "coverage" for my people as my company cuts back. (e.g., overtime is a no-no now versus last year when we were augmenting our pay 50%+ with overtime. Programs are scaling back, etc.) Could it be just my company? I doubt it. My friends at other aerospace engineering companies are all talking about hiring freezes, upcoming layoffs, etc. Only Lockheed and the subs on the JSF seem to be hiring. FYI, even Boeing is laying off (not commercial, but other divisions).

So if B6 wants a product to stand out... its best to do that now. Query: When do WN's hedges expire? Last I recall, they have some new hedges, but I forget the details.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
MATURRO727
Posts: 282
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:17 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:51 am

hey

the new PTV's are awosome it really worth it and ovbiously you got to spend some money to win some money. as simple as that



MATURRO727
 
FA4B6
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:00 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 25):
A B6`s waste of money I can tell is the rebuilding of JFK`s T5

Thats a very ignorant statement. Space at JFK is becoming tight, Terminal Six is almost at capacity,and B6 has a lot of planes on order. A lot of the new terminal is being paid for by the PANYNJ. The design for the new terminal is beautiful, will make the a lot of the JetBlue Experience a lot nicer, and will give JetBlue the space it needs to grow.
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
qantas777
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 7:52 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:59 am

Well said flydreamliner.

B6 is a wonderful airline offering a great service. However, their business model must change if oil stays aroun d $70-$80 oil.

FL/WN perhaps have the best LCC model in N. America.
 
Zudnic
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:42 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 18):
If airlines allowed just a personal item, think how much faster boarding and deplaning would be.

True, but if they did that they could kiss their business travelers good-bye.
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 31):
Quoting UA777222 (Reply 18):
If airlines allowed just a personal item, think how much faster boarding and deplaning would be.

True, but if they did that they could kiss their business travelers good-bye.

Not my quote.

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
JetBlueAUS
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:15 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 25):
A B6`s waste of money I can tell is the rebuilding of JFK`s T5

What made you think of saying this? JetBlue is definitely not "throwing its money out the window" by reconstructing Terminal 5. Terminal 5 will allow them to continue their expansion at JFK. Even though, I'd rather for them to focus on other areas as well, besides JFK, Terminal 5 is needed.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 10):
The price of oil is hitting them hard. Unless the B6 business model changes in some way, they might be in some trouble, loyalty or not, 34" pitch, free live ptv, and sub $100 transcontinental fares? In a world of $80 oil, that kind of set up just doesn't scream profitability. I think WN and FL have the LCC model down. I think B6 offers a tremendous product, I just hope reality doesn't catch up to them too quickly.

JetBlue really doesn't offer that anymore. Say if I were to buy a ticket tomorrow and return on July 17. The highest fare would be, $737.10 unless you wanted to connect in OAK or LAS. Those fares are higher. JetBlue knows what its doing, guys. They are paid professionals.  Wink
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 23):
TSA restrictions help, because 50% of the time, they are stopped at the checkpoint.

the TSA says its the Airlines job to restrict the crayon's and size not there's... they do not 1/2 the time send them back to ck a big idem or extra idem...
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 29):
Thats a very ignorant statement. Space at JFK is becoming tight, Terminal Six is almost at capacity,and B6 has a lot of planes on order. A lot of the new terminal is being paid for by the PANYNJ. The design for the new terminal is beautiful, will make the a lot of the JetBlue Experience a lot nicer, and will give JetBlue the space it needs to grow.

This statement is rude… you should offer an excuse...  cry 

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 34):
What made you think of saying this?

T5 was perfect, PANYNJ & jetBlue only needed refurbish somethings, but they decided to destroy a great part of the terminal to make a new one  worried 

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 34):
JetBlue is definitely not "throwing its money out the window" by reconstructing Terminal 5. Terminal 5 will allow them to continue their expansion at JFK. Even though, I'd rather for them to focus on other areas as well, besides JFK, Terminal 5 is needed.

Oh, I should have told that another waste of money is to focus on JFK whereas mid-continent airports are making good returns to LCCs.
The way T5 was would be enough and to spare for B6`s expansion.
 
dc10s4ever
Posts: 700
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:46 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:29 am

The larger bins can actually save a lot of time. The new bins allow roller bags to be stowed wheels first and can accomodate more carry ons. Thus elimianting the need for gate check bags at the end.

[Edited 2006-07-15 22:38:08]
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 37):
You actually compensate for no TV? What a STUPID company. I hope you go broke!

Customers buy a ticket on jetBlue with the idea that free DirecTV will be part of the deal. If the TV is not working, if it's jetBlue's fault or not, they will compensate a customer for it. That's what quality customer service is...that's what wins them awards...that's what wins them positive publicity...that's what wins them support from politicians...that's what wins them an extremely loyal customer base that recommends them to friends and family who continue to fly on jetBlue, even when their ticket prices are more expensive. Compensation for inoperable TV is just yet another perk of flying jetBlue. JetBlue has done things differently in a positively unique way since day one and this is no different.

Laugh all you want...what a "stupid" company...well that stupid company you refer to is the one that laughed all the way to the bank for 18 quarters while the industry lost $50 billion+ as a whole and it is the same company that will laugh all the way to the bank on July 25, when 2nd quarter earnings are reported.

You hope they go broke??? What goes around comes around!  Smile
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
JetBlueAUS
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:15 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 36):
This statement is rude… you should offer an excuse...

FA4B6 wasn't trying to make his statement offensive. Perhaps you might be reading to much into his reply? You did make an ignorant reply, without backing up your statement and all. No hard feelings, man.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 36):
T5 was perfect, PANYNJ & jetBlue only needed refurbish somethings, but they decided to destroy a great part of the terminal to make a new one

T5 needed to be redone. The new T5 will be much, much nicer than the old one. It is also designed to meet JetBlue's standards, and to support their expansion at JFK.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 36):
Oh, I should have told that another waste of money is to focus on JFK whereas mid-continent airports are making good returns to LCCs.
The way T5 was would be enough and to spare for B6`s expansion.

JetBlue is making its way into the mid-continent airports. A midwest hub will be established in the near future that will even further their expansion. JetBlue isn't really "wasting" their money on anything. You could make an argument on many other airlines that you could say are "throwing their money out the window."
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 22):
if People would use the space under the seat infront of them and lemit them to the carry on size. thare is room for all to carry on bags....

I've often wondered if anyone who complains about this has ever tried putting an item under the seat in front of them. That may have worked when Economy seat pitch was 36 inches, but nowdays with appalling lack of space, if you put something under the seat, you have nowhere to put your feet, making it suitable for only the smallest items. It's especially bad if the seat pitch is 31" because the only way I can get any room is to move the item behind my legs after takeoff (and stowing it again prior to landing).

And before you jump all over me, yes I do make sure I follow the rules regarding carry-ons and manage to get everything into a 22 inch rollarboard and a small bag and/or backpack; I never have any trouble.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
SpazolaJBLULGB
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:58 pm

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:23 am

Speaking from a technician's point of view,I think the upgrade is great it brightens up the cabin with the new larger grey covers that really make it brighter than the old style! Since the new VDU's we seem to have less problems with the system as well! What overhead bin mods are you talking about? We get those straight from France? That was one of the few mods we did at MECCA when I worked there!!! The larger bins make all the difference in the world!! When I fly "OLD COMPANY",AWA,I laugh because there's are so small like being on the RJ I fly everyweek back and forth!!! Plus, I think it looks more professional?
 
dc10s4ever
Posts: 700
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:46 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 35):
the TSA says its the Airlines job to restrict the crayon's and size not there's

The TSA is run by a bunch of idots who failed the exam to work in the post office.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 38):
If the TV is not working, if it's jetBlue's fault or not, they will compensate a customer for it.

When costs start hurting, how long will they do that? IMHO, airlines are in the transportation industry, not the entertainment industry, and any costs associated to insure customer satisfaction because of an issue with an entertainment system is a cost that is ripe for being cut. IMHO, with fuel costs constantly rising, and competing airlines labor cost lowering, profitablitiy is going to come down to simple things like - the cost of fuel to fly the added weight of the entertainment system.
 
MiCorazonAzul
Posts: 550
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:04 pm

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:37 am

JetBlue is committed to providing the best JetBlue experience as possible, so money spent on IMPROVING that experience is NOT "money thrown out the window". It is basically a very simple concept...focusing on customer service.
Live for Today.....tomorrow is NOT guaranteed.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 43):
When costs start hurting, how long will they do that? IMHO, airlines are in the transportation industry, not the entertainment industry, and any costs associated to insure customer satisfaction because of an issue with an entertainment system is a cost that is ripe for being cut. IMHO, with fuel costs constantly rising, and competing airlines labor cost lowering, profitablitiy is going to come down to simple things like - the cost of fuel to fly the added weight of the entertainment system.

And it's precisely that attitude which is responsible for the industry losing money hand over fist. It is this kind of arrogance and abject refusal to meet the needs of the customer which is responsible for the industry's slump. Not oil prices, not 9-11, not security. It is because a whole industry (with some notable exceptions) not only takes its customers for granted, but seem to actually hate them.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 39):
FA4B6 wasn't trying to make his statement offensive. Perhaps you might be reading to much into his reply? You did make an ignorant reply, without backing up your statement and all. No hard feelings, man.

If some A.net member does not show knowing in his/her statement, there is no reason to mark it with hard words, just show where is lacking knowledge in his/her statement.
I still do not accept the word “ignorant”, because I know about what I wrote or because we do not have the nearness for you communicate in that subjective way to me.
Thus I think you both should excuse your incivility.

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 39):
T5 needed to be redone. The new T5 will be much, much nicer than the old one. It is also designed to meet JetBlue's standards, and to support their expansion at JFK.



Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 39):
JetBlue is making its way into the mid-continent airports. A midwest hub will be established in the near future that will even further their expansion. JetBlue isn't really "wasting" their money on anything. You could make an argument on many other airlines that you could say are "throwing their money out the window."

I would reply those statements if you had shown civility.
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 45):
And it's precisely that attitude which is responsible for the industry losing money hand over fist. It is this kind of arrogance and abject refusal to meet the needs of the customer which is responsible for the industry's slump. Not oil prices, not 9-11, not security. It is because a whole industry (with some notable exceptions) not only takes its customers for granted, but seem to actually hate them.

 bigthumbsup  Finally, someone who sees the bigger picture! Welcome to my RU list.

Most other airlines see their "passengers" as an inconvenience, while on jetBlue their "customers" are appreciated and treated like humans.
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:50 am

Another thing that legacy airlines do which is anticustomer is charge more for a one-way then a roundtrip.

Example
10SEP DL 1621 SLC 445pm EWR 1100pm $524 one way

add EWR-SLC SEP 29 $399 RT

and however if I go fly to JFK its $179 one way, this is because of Jetblue who only charges one way fares flying JFK-SLC.

$125 surcharge for not flying EWR-SLC and they get to make more money off the seat I'm not using.
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2852
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 48):
Another thing that legacy airlines do which is anticustomer is charge more for a one-way then a roundtrip.

This has to be the most idiotic policy ever invented. It's just...stupid.

I've been reading the thread and I think some people make some really good points. Basically, I see the updating of JetBlue's planes a way to remain competitive and also a way for JetBlue to continue investing and adding value in its product. Believe it or not, a lot of people will see and recognize the updates, and such items will better their experience on JetBlue. This assists in building customer loyalty and, ultimately, being able to demand a slightly higher fare.

JetBlue has focussed highly on its customer offerings since it was created. There's no reason for them to stop. The introduction of the Bliss Spa Kit as well as the Dunkin' Donuts Coffee, FOX Inflight Movies and XM Radio are all examples of recent improvements as well.

JetBlue
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 49):
This has to be the most idiotic policy ever invented. It's just...stupid.

In addition to required Sat. night stays, $100 change fees and many other policies that just make no sense and annoy the customer!
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:41 pm

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 47):
Most other airlines see their "passengers" as an inconvenience, while on jetBlue their "customers" are appreciated and treated like humans.



Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 45):
And it's precisely that attitude which is responsible for the industry losing money hand over fist.

Airlines are a business...even JetBlue. Let's imagine for a minute that once the dust settles from the airline bankruptcies and other adjustments to the industry, we find most airlines ekeing out a profit. Let's say the situation in the middle east pushes oil over $80 a barrel. Wish I had the calculations of how much fuel it costs to fly an empty A320 with TV sets installed and an empty A320 without the IFE. The difference has now become a competitive advantage for the airline without IFE. Add to that, lets say Jetblue pays out $250,000 per year (pure guess there) to compensate passengers because their TV didn't work. That fast becomes a competitive disadvantage for JetBlue.

Now let's look at history...the LCC's come into a market and offer a low fare - but no meals. Were passengers willing to pay a bit more for a ticket because they'd get a meal? History has shown they will not. So if Jetblue attempts to raise their fares to cover the extra cost of flying the weight of the entertainment systems across the country and cover the compensation for broken TV sets - will the public pay for those things, or will they opt for an airline that will charge them a few bucks less. And think of it from the perspective of the typical airline customer...not the a.netter point of view. People were not willing to pay a bit more for an airline provided meal...they really aren't willing to pay more for a first class seat - since the majority of those are comped to FFer's...would they be willing to pay more for TV's. History suggests that they would not.

It really has nothing to do with "good customer service". You can provide the best possible experience, but if doing so causes a loss...pretty soon the business side of the business is going to demand some changes.
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2609
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 51):
And think of it from the perspective of the typical airline customer...not the a.netter point of view. People were not willing to pay a bit more for an airline provided meal...they really aren't willing to pay more for a first class seat - since the majority of those are comped to FFer's...would they be willing to pay more for TV's. History suggests that they would not.

The problem with your rationale is that it isn't necessarily true in all cases. People have become so accustomed to B6 being the automatic "cheap airline" (similar to WN in some regards) that they just assume that whatever B6 is charging will be the cheapest fare and just buy it without comparison shopping. I was looking up flights the other day from JFK/EWR-PHX for one of my mom's co-workers, and she couldn't believe that CO was actually cheaper than B6. If it were up to her, she would have just bought the ticket from B6 to begin with, assuming that CO would have undoubtedly been more expensive.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: B6 Throwing Money Out The Window?

Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 52):
I was looking up flights the other day from JFK/EWR-PHX for one of my mom's co-workers, and she couldn't believe that CO was actually cheaper than B6. If it were up to her, she would have just bought the ticket from B6 to begin with, assuming that CO would have undoubtedly been more expensive.

Let me ask you this...who did she book with? If it was Continental, you sort of proved my point. Price drives more decisions that in flight entertainment. I would be willing to imagine that your mom's coworker will check out other pricing. The real test will be this - if the price is $20 more on JetBlue, would she book it because of the TV, or will she pocket the $20 and fly CO next time?

And before I'm slammed for "bashing JetBlue", I'm not bashing at all...I admittedly haven't flown them since they do not serve my city. And 99% of the time, I'll buy based on price. The 1% of the time I don't is when my schedule is uncertain - in that case I usually book Southwest even if the price is a little higher, because they do not have change and penalty fees, so that any difference I have to pay is strictly in airfare and not penalty/change fees. I'm just basing my analysis on what we have seen....airlines "always offered food"...heck, I remember getting a meal on DFW-MCI flights...today it's just drinks "because of the short duration of the flight".

The legacies thought they could fight the LCC's because of a higher level of service or amenities. It didn't work...they quickly found that price rules. And in a period where costs are increasing daily, I really question if the return on the investment of in flight entertainment is going to be worth it over time. When your profits are measured in pennies per seat mile, airlines have to ask themselves "Are we in the transportation business, or the entertainment business".