MaxQ2351
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What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:34 pm

I was just looking through American's timetable, and their flights to the Caribbean out of MIA, and I noticed something odd.

American runs three flights a day, with 757's and AB6's, MIA-PAP (Port au Prince), a 714mi flight. However, American has blocked these flights as being just under three hours long (2:55, 2:59, 2:55). How is that even possible???

Taking into consideration taxi time and such, that's approx. an average 225kt groundspeed.

Now, from PAP-MIA, the SAME 714mi flight, the flight times are blocked at just over one hour (1:03, 1:01, 1:05). Again, considering taxi time, that's right close to a 700kt groundspeed.

225kt one way, 700kt coming back.

So, can someone please explain to me, how/why is it that way?!?!?!?

-Max
The 777-200LR......2 engines 4 longer haul
 
AeroWesty
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:36 pm

Different time zones.
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Cactus739
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:43 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
Different time zones.

Now we just need 45 more people to come in saying the exact same thing, 32 to mention that they need IFE on that flight.... 30 to ask about if the A300's AA uses on that have the new interiorios.... 21 to ask if the 757's are ex TWA.... and 1 person to ask why there isn't more RDU - west coast flights and we'll have a complete thread.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
MaxQ2351
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:43 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
Different time zones.

I think not.

Dep/Arr times are calculated to respective time zones. Flight time is not changed because of time zones. Flight time will remain the same whether you cross 0 or 32 time zones.

-Max
The 777-200LR......2 engines 4 longer haul
 
AeroWesty
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:45 pm

Well, is there IFE on the flights or not?!?  silly 
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MaxQ2351
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 2):
Now we just need 45 more people to come in saying the exact same thing, 32 to mention that they need IFE on that flight.... 30 to ask about if the A300's AA uses on that have the new interiorios.... 21 to ask if the 757's are ex TWA.... and 1 person to ask why there isn't more RDU - west coast flights and we'll have a complete thread.

Okay, my stomach is hurting right now as I am recovering from my laughing spell............that is completely pricesless, I love it!!!!

-Max

PS~ 1+ to the RU list
The 777-200LR......2 engines 4 longer haul
 
AeroWesty
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 3):
I think not.

Departure/arrival times are in local times.
International Homo of Mystery
 
MaxQ2351
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
Departure/arrival times are in local times.

And are thus adjusted to time zone changes. Flight time still remains independent from these figures!!

-Max
The 777-200LR......2 engines 4 longer haul
 
Amazonphil
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting MaxQ2351 (Thread starter):
I was just looking through American's timetable, and their flights to the Caribbean out of MIA, and I noticed something odd.

American runs three flights a day, with 757's and AB6's, MIA-PAP (Port au Prince), a 714mi flight. However, American has blocked these flights as being just under three hours long (2:55, 2:59, 2:55). How is that even possible???

Taking into consideration taxi time and such, that's approx. an average 225kt groundspeed.

I was going say..that is kinda slow...I do right around that in my Turbo 210 at FL200!! A 750nm trip takes me around 3.5hours on the nose.

Something is amiss there.

amazonphil
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:51 pm

AeroWesty,

input DFW-ELP and you'll see Max's point.

The flight time is within 10 minutes each way. Roughly 1:40. But on the DFW-ELP flight, clock time is about 30 minutes. ELP-DFW is more than 2 hours on the clock.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
AeroWesty
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 9):
input DFW-ELP and you'll see Max's point

I understand about time zone changes and DFW-ELP.

Max, where are you getting said block times?
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expatmatt
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:54 pm

I just checked this in SABRE. Flights are blocked at 2 hours +/- a few minutes. MIA and PAP are in the SAME time zone.

To those with access to SABRE who might doubt me...
Enter T*PAP -or- T*MIA to see time zones

Then sell a segment for a MIAPAP or PAPMIA flight and then hit VI* to display the itinerary... the ELPD column shows you the block time ("elapsed time")

The flights I checked were for this weekend, so perhaps there might be a time change if the original poster checked flights for a different time of year if/when PAP *could* be a different time zone.
 
Cactus739
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:55 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 9):

Did you know that El Paso is in the Mountain time zone and Dallas is in the Central time zone? (thus El Paso is an hour behind Dallas)
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
AeroWesty
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:56 pm

Quoting Expatmatt (Reply 11):
The flights I checked were for this weekend, so perhaps there might be a time change if the original poster checked flights for a different time of year if/when PAP *could* be a different time zone.

Ding ding ding!
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Longhornmaniac
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 12):
Did you know that El Paso is in the Mountain time zone and Dallas is in the Central time zone? (thus El Paso is an hour behind Dallas)

Exactly my point. But the Duration remains the same, because no matter the time change, the amount of time on a stopwatch which you're on the plane remains the same, which means that something is, indeed amiss.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
Max, where are you getting said block times?

If you go to the downloaded timetable, then click on Scheduled Flights. Input 2 destinations, then you'll see a Dep section, Arr section, DUR section, and via section. The Dur/Duration section is equivilant of the block time. On cross country flights, the durations are the same (give or take for jet stream etc...), even though the departure clock time, and arrival clock time vary greatly going to and from, gaining or loosing hours respectively.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
AeroWesty
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:03 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 14):
If you go to the downloaded timetable

Which downloaded timetable?
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Longhornmaniac
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:06 pm

From the AA website.

Click on AA Timetable Download

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
MaxQ2351
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
Which downloaded timetable?

PDF file is the one I was looking at.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 14):
But the Duration remains the same, because no matter the time change, the amount of time on a stopwatch which you're on the plane remains the same, which means that something is, indeed amiss.

YES, this is what I mean!!!

-Max
The 777-200LR......2 engines 4 longer haul
 
AeroWesty
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:08 pm

All right, I see it.

Obviously, because there's a two hour difference in the durations, someone put in the wrong time zone for PAP when they did the schedule. The same error occurs for PAP-FLL.
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expatmatt
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:12 pm

Yep, I see it too. The timetable on the AA website is probably wrong.

Who is writing the letter to Gerard Arpey to tell him?
 
Amazonphil
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:13 pm

I still say that I could out run AA's 757/AB6's with my 210! Pax watch as tiny Cessna pulls away from an airliner going to the fun in the sand!!!
 eyepopping   eyepopping   eyepopping 

Cheers,
amazonphil
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
 
bomber996
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Quoting Expatmatt (Reply 11):
The flights I checked were for this weekend, so perhaps there might be a time change if the original poster checked flights for a different time of year if/when PAP *could* be a different time zone.

Ding ding ding!

One problem... PAP and MIA are in the same time zones. The dividing line between -5 GMT and -4 GMT runs right along the Hatian-Dominican boarder. This puts the entire hatian side of Hispanola on the -5 GMT, or the same time zone and Maimi and New York.

The only thing that would throw a wrench into this would be Daylight Savings Time, but this would actually make PAP in what would then be our Central Time or -6 GMT.
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
MaxQ2351
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:14 pm

Quoting Expatmatt (Reply 19):
Who is writing the letter to Gerard Arpey to tell him?

I didn't know God had a mailing address!!!  duck 

-Max
The 777-200LR......2 engines 4 longer haul
 
AeroWesty
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 21):
One problem... PAP and MIA are in the same time zones.

The other problem is that in the OP, he didn't state he got the block times from the schedule. He could have easily been just looking at local times and arriving at his conclusion. If the OP had been clearer that he was looking at the actual published duration initially, it would have been easier to solve.
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Cactus739
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:44 pm

I checked ELP-DFW and DFW-ELP for various dates in July and Aug and looked fine to me....
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
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Amwest2United
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:59 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 14):
The Dur/Duration section is equivilant of the block time. On cross country flights, the durations are the same (give or take for jet stream etc...), even though the departure clock time, and arrival clock time vary greatly going to and from, gaining or loosing hours respectively

Not always the case, block time is based on history, season and airport taxi time.... on UA PHL-LAX , blocked @ 6:11 but LAX-PHL is blocked @ 5:18. An extra 35mins is added to PHL-LAX for the long delayed taxi out time. Although, your point is on target.
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BigGSFO
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 2):
Now we just need 45 more people to come in saying the exact same thing, 32 to mention that they need IFE on that flight.... 30 to ask about if the A300's AA uses on that have the new interiorios.... 21 to ask if the 757's are ex TWA.... and 1 person to ask why there isn't more RDU - west coast flights and we'll have a complete thread.

I love it. And don't forget - somehow we need to turn this thread into one about DL.
 
MAH4546
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:05 pm

PAP and MIA are in the same time zone, but PAP does not observe DST, so they are one hour apart.
a.
 
tootallsd
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:44 pm

Ugh! I just check online at aa.com. Sure enough 713 miles, 1:50. So I thought, what pair is a similar length. ORD:DFW is 802 miles with a time of 2:20 to 2:25. So apparently the 1:50 is not out to lunch.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting Amwest2United (Reply 25):
Not always the case, block time is based on history, season and airport taxi time.... on UA PHL-LAX , blocked @ 6:11 but LAX-PHL is blocked @ 5:18. An extra 35mins is added to PHL-LAX for the long delayed taxi out time. Although, your point is on target.

On the AA timetable, the Duration section is from gate to gate, which is the time for which its blocked.

As for PHL-LAX, I don't know that it has anything to do with taxi times, but rather the fact they're flying with a headwind westbound, as opposed to a tailwind flying eastbound. Same reason my flight from IAH-CDG in 2003 was 9.5 hours, but my CDG-IAH flight was just over 11.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
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ERJ170
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 2):
Now we just need 45 more people to come in saying the exact same thing, 32 to mention that they need IFE on that flight.... 30 to ask about if the A300's AA uses on that have the new interiorios.... 21 to ask if the 757's are ex TWA.... and 1 person to ask why there isn't more RDU - west coast flights and we'll have a complete thread.

Dont forget the 125 B6 threads for new cities, 100 queries for when NW DC9 retirement, and 80 queries for new international service for XXX airport...
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
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RE: What Is Up With This? AA, MIA-PAP

Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 28):
Ugh! I just check online at aa.com. Sure enough 713 miles, 1:50. So I thought, what pair is a similar length. ORD:DFW is 802 miles with a time of 2:20 to 2:25. So apparently the 1:50 is not out to lunch.

Duration is gate-to-gate and includes expected, minimal delays. PAP isn't exactly a congested airport. Once you land, you are at the parking stand and off the plane within five minutes, as opposed to 10-15 at O'Hare.
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