skyteam2000
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:45 am

Thai Airways B744 Incident at MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:48 am

A Thai Airways jumbo jet taxiing to a runway bumped into an empty Air France plane parked outside a terminal at Madrid's international airport on Saturday, an airport official said. No injuries were reported.

The Thai Airways plane, a Boeing 747-400, was carrying more than 300 passengers and was headed to Bangkok via Rome, an airport spokeswoman said on customary condition of anonymity. The jet's right wing clipped the tail section of the Air France plane, which had been scheduled to fly to the French city of Bordeaux later Saturday, she said.

No passengers were injured or needed medical assistance, she said.

The cause of the accident was under investigation.

Both planes were taken out of service for repair while the passengers had to wait for another plane to continue their journey, she said.

Neither Thai Airways nor Air France were available for comment.
 
pavlin
Posts: 391
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Thai Airways B744 Incident at MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:51 am

S... happens.
A couple of million dollars and we will be OK
 
fly727
Posts: 1752
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RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:09 am

There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
calvin99
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:14 am

thx for the pics Fly727..!! the whole tail fell off??? thats unbelieveable..!! poor embraer jet..!!

from the pic.. it seems that onli the winglet was damaged..!! but can't see the other side of the wing.. so i don't know..!! i wonder the cause behind this?
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:21 am

What surprises me is that it looks like the 747-400 was using the closest taxiway to Terminal 2 which has tight space and is normally only used by smaller aircraft. No wonder the accident occured! That's a pretty bad tail strike for the ERJ.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...158&spn=0.003894,0.010815&t=k&om=1

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j33/SpottingShots/DSCN1194.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j33/SpottingShots/DSCN1043.jpg

[Edited 2006-07-15 19:24:28]
No Vueling No Party
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:48 am

Damm, thats a strike alrite.

Sliced the tail clean off.

Whos fault then??
Where does the time go???
 
DTWAGENT
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:16 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:21 am

Well so much for that ERJ.... That will be a write off..... What the heck is that B747-400 doing in such a tight space????? I'm sure ATC ground did not put them there.....

Someone is going to get a good chewing

Chuck
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:26 am

Question: do the airlines carry insurance to provide cover for situations such as this? We hear about ground accidents from time to time, but considering how many airports and airplanes there are worldwide, lucky the situations are rare. How is an "airport fenderbender" such as this handled? In this case, would Thai simply make out a check to repair the damaged regional jet, do the laywers work it out, or is an insurance issue?

Thankfully, no one was injured in Madrid today.
 
CPHGuard
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:58 pm

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Calvin99 (Reply 3):
from the pic.. it seems that onli the winglet was damaged..!!

I think you can be pretty sure, that there is a lot more damage to the 744, than a damaged winglet.

Regards
Thomas
 
SKY1
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:03 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:03 am

According the Spanish channel "TELE 5" TG going to charter a new plane to Madrid in order to pick up these pax.

http://www.informativos.telecinco.es/avion/choca/barajas/dn_28614.htm
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 9):
According the Spanish channel "TELE 5" TG going to charter a new plane to Madrid in order to pick up these pax.

I'll be flying out of MAD tommorow but from T4 (S) so I doubt I will be able to see the chartered aircraft unless it takes off after 10:00 and before 13:00!
No Vueling No Party
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:31 am

Airport Madrid, Barajas (MAD) - SPAIN
terminal 1
1:05 pm on July 15,2006
Bordeaux, Bordeaux Aéroport (BOD) - FRANCE
terminal A

2:20 pm on July 15,2006
Comments Flight canceled
Flight operated by Regional on behalf of Air France.

Seems to be that one.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
SKY1
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:03 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:32 am

¡Hola Gordon! ...according to Tele-5 "La compañía manifestó que se ha enviado una aeronave desde Tailandia al aeropuerto de Barajas para recoger a estos viajeros, que está previsto que emprendan viaje mañana sobre las 10.00 horas desde Madrid.

...then if this news is right tomorrow you will see 2 Thai's planes in Barajas: The special flight and the Sunday's scheduled flight non-stop MAD-BKK.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 12):
...then if this news is right tomorrow you will see 2 Thai's planes in Barajas: The special flight and the Sunday's scheduled flight non-stop MAD-BKK.

Ah vale, buenas nuevas! Hope I can see both!
No Vueling No Party
 
HikesWithEyes
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:54 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:28 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
In this case, would Thai simply make out a check to repair the damaged regional jet, do the laywers work it out, or is an insurance issue?

Depends on the carrier. When UAL pushed a 777 back into an AS 739 at
SEA, it took the AS plane out of service for some time.
However, when AS presented UAL with a bill, UAL offered to pay half
the cost.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:27 pm

What's with the airport on the google link? It has two runways that disappear. They appear to be new and the pictures are from dates far apart. I don't know how they get two RWY 18L's though (At the top of the picture and in front of the terminals).
I love ASO!
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:08 pm

Some photos taken by Ruben Galindo Verdugo show a closer look at the damage:

http://www.aviationcorner.net/show_photo.asp?id=7249
http://www.aviationcorner.net/show_photo.asp?id=7252
http://www.aviationcorner.net/show_photo.asp?id=7250
http://www.aviationcorner.net/show_photo.asp?id=7248

Something weird about the last photo is that in the backround there is an Iberia Airbus with stairs attached to it, very surprised to see it parked at a remote stand by Terminal 1/2/3 instead of over at Terminal 4.

[Edited 2006-07-16 06:09:05]
No Vueling No Party
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:11 pm

Oucch, I agree with you all, that is a TIGHT space. If ATC put them there, expect the goverment to get involved. If not, who will pick up the tab for the damage?

Is this the 1st 145 written off??

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:14 pm

Wow... and I thought that was fake...

Obviously the ERJ is a writeoff, but if it's just a winglet, which is all I can see, isn't that a quick fix for the 744???
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:24 pm

I think its a easy mx job with the right facilities. Expect the plane to be ferried to FRA as they are a STAR alliance airline and have good mx facilities to do such a repair.

Anyone else share the same feeling or similiar about a repair like this? Whats the time it takes to change a winglet? Acouple of days?

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:28 pm

I'd think they would remove the damaged winglet at MAD and then fly her back to BKK.
No Vueling No Party
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 19):
Expect the plane to be ferried to FRA as they are a STAR alliance airline and have good mx facilities to do such a repair.

I hope you were talking about the B744 and not the ERJ  Wink
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:12 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 20):
I'd think they would remove the damaged winglet at MAD and then fly her back to BKK.

Correct. B744s can fly minus 1 winglet with a performance penalty. You can even fly with pax but I doubt that would happen. What they have to do before ferrying is to check the wing to make sure the damage is really superficial. I'm surprised at the relatively minor damage sustained by the Thai vs the state of that ERJ. A write off is my bet for that weasel.
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stormbringer
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:49 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:41 pm

This is becoming a habit.

Aug 2003:
BANGKOK, Apr 20 (TNA) – Thai Airways International Public Company Limited (THAI) and Singapore Airlines were at loggerheads today following an incident yesterday afternoon in which two planes clipped wings at Bangkok’s Don Muang Airport. There were no injuries in the incident, which occurred when Singapore Airlines' flight SQ68, which was taxiing to a gate, clipped wings with THAI's flight 602, as it travelled to the runway for takeoff.
It's not road rage. It's COURTESY ENFORCEMENT.
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:44 pm

Well I'm off to the airport, if I can get a WiFi connection I'll let you guys know if I see anything from Terminal 4 (S).
No Vueling No Party
 
Geo772
Posts: 439
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:40 pm

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:59 pm

A 747 winglet is pretty easy to change, the aircraft can fly without any problem with one missing in revenue service, however its fuel burn goes up a bit.
It has been known for this to happen while the old winglet is repaired / or a new one made they aren't usually held in the spares inventory.

As the that ERJ I reckon they will repair that looking at the photos there. It is amazing how much damage you can inflict on a plane and it still be economical to repair. It will most likely need a new tail though the damage is quite severe to its current one.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
 
dcrusafon
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:54 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:48 pm

Here you have more pictures I received via email...



There was a NOTAM at the airport saying that the taxiway he was using was restricted to airplanes "smaller" than A319...

Brgrds,

DARIO

[Edited 2006-07-16 11:13:34]
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:01 pm

Quoting Dcrusafon (Reply 26):
There was a NOTAM at the airport saying that the taxiway he was using was restricted to airplanes bigger than A319...

I believe you meant smaller than the A319. That should include all A32x/B73x. ICAO Code C that is. The restriction should be clearly marked out on the aerodrome chart. NOTAMs are not necessary as it is a permanent restriction, not a temporary/adhoc one.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
airbusA346
Posts: 7284
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:05 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:53 pm

If the taxiway was restricted, then what was the 744 doing down there.

Tom.
Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
 
Junior747
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:12 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:48 pm

From what I can understand...it all boils down to why the Thai B744 was on that taxiway. So obviously, either the crew or the ATC are gonna get the blame for this one.  alert 

Regards,

Junior
Pilot of 'Lady Guinness' - 9H-UMR
 
TGV
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:37 pm

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 14):
Depends on the carrier. When UAL pushed a 777 back into an AS 739 at
SEA, it took the AS plane out of service for some time.
However, when AS presented UAL with a bill, UAL offered to pay half
the cost.

Was the AS plane in a wrong location ? Or was it moving ?
If, as it seems to be the case in this MAD incident, the AF plane was parked correctly, I have difficulties understanding with AF would not be repaid 100%, including loss of revenue.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
 
atnight
Posts: 537
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:06 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:53 pm

How exactly did it happen? the wing of the B744 seems super strong to cut through the whole tail of the small aircraft! I imagine the pilots of the TG were not watching carefully what was around them if it was indeed TG's fault...
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:56 pm

As a pilot friend explained to me today the TG crew are at fault even if they had been given the wrong taxiway as they should be keeping their eyes out for things like this.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
HikesWithEyes
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:54 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting TGV (Reply 30):
Was the AS plane in a wrong location ? Or was it moving ?

The AS gate was parked at the gate, and the person operating the
pushback on the UAL 777 pushed the 777 so its wing impacted the
verticle stabilizer of the AS 737-900.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
XA744
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:40 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 22):
Correct. B744s can fly minus 1 winglet with a performance penalty. You can even fly with pax but I doubt that would happen.

Well, back in 1997 we had a MAS 744 with the left winglet clipped by a catering truck at LAX. After a 5 hour delay and the winglet being removed, the aircraft completed its journey together with pax and cargo all the way down to MEX. The day after it safely returned to KUL via LAX and TPE on time and fully loaded with revenue !!!

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
TGV
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:37 pm

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 33):


Quoting TGV (Reply 30):

Was the AS plane in a wrong location ? Or was it moving ?

The AS gate was parked at the gate, and the person operating the
pushback on the UAL 777 pushed the 777 so its wing impacted the
verticle stabilizer of the AS 737-900.

So I really have difficulties to understand how UAL could offer to pay only half the cost !
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
 
HikesWithEyes
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:54 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting TGV (Reply 35):
So I really have difficulties to understand how UAL could offer to pay only half the cost !

UAL has always been pretty arrogant towards AS, and this was just
another example of what they thought they could get away with.
I don't know what the final resolution was.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
Fermarta
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:17 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 16):
Something weird about the last photo is that in the backround there is an Iberia Airbus with stairs attached to it, very surprised to see it parked at a remote stand by Terminal 1/2/3 instead of over at Terminal 4.

A321 EC-JRE flying for Hola Airlines to ACE.

Saludos.
Otros vendrán que bueno te harán
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:06 am

When I was driving into MAD this morning I managed to see the tail of the damaged 747-400 parked on a remote stand. Regarding a chartered aircraft, the only aircraft that I saw that could have been chartered by Thai was a white 767-300 which took off around 11:50.
No Vueling No Party
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:27 pm

Here's a shot of the 767 but I doubt it was the aircraft for Thai. I couldn't manage to read the reg.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j33/SpottingShots/DSCN1362.jpg

The Thai 747-400 had its winglet removed at MAD and then flew to FCO and then onto BKK yesterday.
No Vueling No Party
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting N754PR (Reply 32):
As a pilot friend explained to me today the TG crew are at fault even if they had been given the wrong taxiway as they should be keeping their eyes out for things like this.

That is correct. Pilots are responsible for separation with ground objects, including parked aircraft. Because the tower cannot see everything on the field.

GMC, however, is required to ensure readbacks are correct. If the Thai crew read back the assigned taxi route wrongly and that went unnoticed, the GMC will have to take some blame too.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
Mason
Posts: 636
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 12:01 am

RE: Thai Airways B744 Incident At MAD Today

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:32 am

I didn't even know TG flew to MAD. Shows how much I know. Even IF the AF aircraft was parked incorrectly, it should still be TG's fault, at least partially, simply for not paying attention.

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