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PanAm_DC10
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Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:46 pm

Reuters is carrying the following report;

LONDON, July 16 (Reuters) - Dubai-based airline Emirates [EMAIR.UL] is set to announce it will buy 10 of the latest version of the Boeing Co. (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 747 jumbo in a deal worth $2.8 billion at list prices, industry sources said on Sunday.

The airline is set to buy the cargo version of the plane, called the 747-8, the sources said, adding an announcement was possible on Tuesday at the Farnborough International Airshow near London.


http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...-36_L1668696&type=comktNews&rpc=44

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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leelaw
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:58 pm

Wow, from 2 A388Fs to 10 748Fs...now that would represent a change in business plan.
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LY777
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:01 am

That's really good news
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TinkerBelle
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:02 am

Good news for Boeing, bad for A388F.
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1):
Wow, from 2 A388Fs to 10 748Fs...now that would represent a change in business plan.

Not to forget 8 x 772Fs they ordered last year. Seems that they intend to build their own cargo network without Atlas over the course of time.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
jacobin777
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Reuters is carrying the following report;

LONDON, July 16 (Reuters) - Dubai-based airline Emirates [EMAIR.UL] is set to announce it will buy 10 of the latest version of the Boeing Co. (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 747 jumbo in a deal worth $2.8 billion at list prices, industry sources said on Sunday.

The airline is set to buy the cargo version of the plane, called the 747-8, the sources said, adding an announcement was possible on Tuesday at the Farnborough International Airshow near London.

thanks for the link PanAm_DC10....... Smile

It would have been nice however if EK purchased some of the -I (pax) version too.......

Well..regardless, its a check Boeing is going to get for the 747-8 program.. thumbsup 
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atmx2000
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
It would have been nice however if EK purchased some of the -I (pax) version too.......

EK seems to like to buy lots of a single model/family. I don't think they can take that much additional capacity for the 747. Maybe if they reduced the sizes of the A380 and 773ER orders they could take some 747-8I's.
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jacobin777
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
EK seems to like to buy lots of a single model/family. I don't think they can take that much additional capacity for the 747. Maybe if they reduced the sizes of the A380 and 773ER orders they could take some 747-8I's.

I agree...but hey, with EK, one just never knows... spin 
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PolymerPlane
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:12 am

EK dumped 2 388Fs and goes for the 10 B748Fs, that shows how much advantage 748F hold over the A388F counter part.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
atmx2000
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 8):
EK dumped 2 388Fs and goes for the 10 B748Fs, that shows how much advantage 748F hold over the A388F counter part.

Well what type of cargo operator does EK want to be? Package or general?

Maybe they have decided that the A388F isn't right for their cargo strategy.
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Stitch
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:00 am

DXB looks to me to be well-placed to serve the EU and Asia, so perhaps EK feels they don't need the range the A388F offers over the 748F when both are at max payload? Also, the 777F and 748F will better fit into the existing cargo infrastructure at airports, so perhaps the Boeing products offers them greater flexability in terms of scheduling?
 
Lumberton
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
DXB looks to me to be well-placed to serve the EU and Asia,

I would add Africa to that list.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Glom
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:49 am

Good if true. Boeing needs some sales for the Jumbo Not Yet.
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:33 am

Damn this is great but will someone PLEASE order pax 747-8i. PLZZZZZ

desmond.
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WingedMigrator
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:12 am

Good for Boeing!

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 8):
EK dumped 2 388Fs and goes for the 10 B748Fs, that shows how much advantage 748F hold over the A388F counter part.

Yeah, judging from those numbers it must be that the B748F is five times better than the A388F.  Wink Actually, "dumped" is a strong word... they "converted" to A388s.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
DXB looks to me to be well-placed to serve the EU and Asia, so perhaps EK feels they don't need the range the A388F offers over the 748F when both are at max payload?

 checkmark 
 
art
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 3):
Good news for Boeing, bad for A388F.

Apples and oranges to me. Do apple sellers fret when customers buy some oranges (and vice versa)? I don't think so.
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
Well what type of cargo operator does EK want to be? Package or general?

I do not know, but how many package cargo carrier in the world, as compared to the general cargo? If A380 is "designed" just for package carrier, I would not expect a success for A380F.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
Maybe they have decided that the A388F isn't right for their cargo strategy

Exactly, which means that 747-8F is more flexible and offers better economic for their cargo strategy, as a general cargo operator.

Quoting Art (Reply 15):
Apples and oranges to me

Not really apples and oranges. Both of them are very large cargo airplane. It's more like Fuji and Empire apples to me, not 1 to 1 replacement but close enough. The fact that EK dumps A380F for 747-8F, shows that the two aircrafts are comparable.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting Art (Reply 15):
Apples and oranges to me. Do apple sellers fret when customers buy some oranges (and vice versa)? I don't think so.

Are you kidding me? They are both the biggest cargo planes around and they are direct competitors so that's herdly apples and oranges.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 16):
If A380 is "designed" just for package carrier, I would not expect a success for A380F.

Here's my take...

The A388F is designed for 5600 nm range. That's what is not currently in demand, judging from orders thus far.

When "abusing" the A388F on ~ 4000 nm segments, only package carriers can make it work by taking advantage of the extra volume.
 
pavlin
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:37 am

747-8F will definitly succed as a cargo fighter. This will bring the orderbook to 28 747-8F and one 747-8i
 
art
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 17):
Quoting Art (Reply 15):
Apples and oranges to me. Do apple sellers fret when customers buy some oranges (and vice versa)? I don't think so.

Are you kidding me? They are both the biggest cargo planes around and they are direct competitors so that's herdly apples and oranges.

I humbly beg to differ. As I understand it, the A380 beats the 748F on volume; the 748F beats the A380 on weight and which one suits an operator better depends on that operator's mission profiles.

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 16):
Quoting Art (Reply 15):
Apples and oranges to me

Not really apples and oranges. Both of them are very large cargo airplane. It's more like Fuji and Empire apples to me, not 1 to 1 replacement but close enough. The fact that EK dumps A380F for 747-8F, shows that the two aircrafts are comparable.

I can see that EK would go for the 748F if it suited their needs better. Was the 748F available when they ordered the A380F? No. Makes sense to me for them to switch their 2 A380F's to pax versions under such circumstances. Furthermore, they avoid any cancellation costs for the A380F's.
 
columba
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:48 am

Good for EK and Boeing - glad to see another order for the 747-8, hope we will see some more in Farnborough. Hopefully we will see some orders for the passenger version.
I can see orders from some Asian carriers (both cargo and passenger) and very likely Lufthansa will finally place an order.
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JAL
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:05 am

A surprising and wonderful news for Boeing!!!!!


I wonder if they will buy the 747-8 Intercontinental later on?
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lotsamiles
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:09 am

This is clearly a vote of no confidence in the A388F if EK is going to take on a new fleet in the 748F. Yes, they have 744's now but they are all on ACMI and thus not EK's to crew or maintain, etc.

Perhaps the nose door is critical to EK's operations since they might have otherwise ordered more 777-200LRF's.

Lotsamiles
 
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Stitch
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting JAL (Reply 22):
I wonder if they will buy the 747-8 Intercontinental later on?

I believe it has both too much capacity (compared to the 773ER) and too little (compared to the A388) to meet EK's requirements, since they have never bothered to add passenger 744 planes in the interim while waiting for the 777 and A380.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:14 am

At the same time, the 2 380F were ditched in favor of pax versions, so here the 380 clearly "wins" against the 748i... Bad news for Boeing?

Nah...

Different airlines have different missions for different planes... The 748 and 380 are different enough to not directly compete against each other.
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jupiter2
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:35 am

As I prepare to run for cover......

EK will need all the freighters to haul the general freight that the 380 will leave behind. EK have said it themselves that if the 380 has a full passenger load they will loose up to 70 % of the camparable cargo uplift they have on flights now. In other words, too much of the cargo hold is going to be taken up by containers full of passenger bags.

If your city expects to see EK 380's, then expect to see EK freighters a few times a week hauling away what gets left behind. I expect we will see the 777 freighters in SYD or the 748's doing a SYD/MEL triangle.

RL
 
Glom
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Eraugrad02 (Reply 13):
Damn this is great but will someone PLEASE order pax 747-8i. PLZZZZZ

That's why we're calling it the Jumbo Not Yet.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 27):
That's why we're calling it the Jumbo Not Yet.

Is that a royal "We"?
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Halibut
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Eraugrad02 (Reply 13):
Damn this is great but will someone PLEASE order pax 747-8i. PLZZZZZ

Concur Eraugrad02,

I am still quite puzzled as to why no pax 747-8 orders ??? However, 10 X 747-8F orders is certainly good for Boeing .... Boeing's bank account that is !

Not bad at all !

 biggrin 

Halibut
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BoomBoom
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Art (Reply 15):
Do apple sellers fret when customers buy some oranges (and vice versa)? I don't think so.

No, but apple growers fret when customers buy oranges.

Quoting Glom (Reply 27):
That's why we're calling it the Jumbo Not Yet.

Are you saying the 748 is going to be a year late, like the A380?
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:09 am

GREAT NEWS FOR BOEING & 747-8F PROGRAM AND EK!

Quoting Art (Reply 20):
Furthermore, they avoid any cancellation costs for the A380F's.

Highly doubt that after all the delays Airbus has had with getting EK their A380's. It would be suicide for them to ding EK with cancellation costs when Airbus can't even delivery aircraft on time. Likewise with the A346's they cancelled... Airbus would be stupid to not let EK keep their deposit money.
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atmx2000
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:20 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 31):
Highly doubt that after all the delays Airbus has had with getting EK their A380's. It would be suicide for them to ding EK with cancellation costs when Airbus can't even delivery aircraft on time. Likewise with the A346's they cancelled... Airbus would be stupid to not let EK keep their deposit money.

Given that the entire A380 program is pushed back, if EK wants to get its A388 passenger fleet closer to the size they originally planned for in 2009/10, cancelling the A388F order makes sense.
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PolymerPlane
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 32):
if EK wants to get its A388 passenger fleet closer to the size they originally planned for in 2009/10, cancelling the A388F order makes sense.

How does cancelling A388F and switching to A388 pax help Airbus increases the production rate?

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
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glideslope
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting Art (Reply 15):
Apples and oranges to me. Do apple sellers fret when customers buy some oranges (and vice versa)? I don't think so.

Well, this is more like burning the Apple Orchard and planting a Citrus Grove.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting Art (Reply 15):
Apples and oranges to me. Do apple sellers fret when customers buy some oranges (and vice versa)? I don't think so.

No customer has infinite money to buy whatever fruit they want. In that perspective, money spent on apples is money not spent on oranges.

Likewise, money invested in the 747-8F is money not invested in the A380F or other Airbus products. That is a reason for Airbus to fret.

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 33):
How does cancelling A388F and switching to A388 pax help Airbus increases the production rate?

It doesn't change the production rate, but it would change the delivery rate.

AMTX is suggesting that EK convert the A380F delivery slots into passenger models so that the delivery of passenger aircraft is not delayed any more than necessary.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 29):
I am still quite puzzled as to why no pax 747-8 orders ???

The problem for Boeing is that customers simply aren't ready to decide. The 747-8I is also in the akward stage of being nearly defined, but not quite enough for customers to commit to the aircraft.

Specifications reach a working freeze by September, at which point customers should be forthcoming...  Wink

Quoting Glom (Reply 27):
That's why we're calling it the Jumbo Not Yet.

Heck if this order is confirmed, I'd say the 747 is doing very well. This would make 29 747-8 orders, in addition to 40 747-400 orders in the last 18 months.

I don't know of anyone who wouldn't be envious of 69 VLA orders in 18 months...
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 26):
EK will need all the freighters to haul the general freight that the 380 will leave behind

And now they can deliver replacement engines in-house for when an A380 breaks-down  Wink
 
atmx2000
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 33):
How does cancelling A388F and switching to A388 pax help Airbus increases the production rate?



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 35):
It doesn't change the production rate, but it would change the delivery rate.

AMTX is suggesting that EK convert the A380F delivery slots into passenger models so that the delivery of passenger aircraft is not delayed any more than necessary

When EK switched slots to the A388 from the A388F, they said they wanted to protect their delivery slots. And that was before the big program delay announcement I believe. In other words they decided they wanted A388s sooner when there was a small delay. With the big program delay, they might have decided that they want A388s as soon as possible, so all their slots will be for the passenger version.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
atmx2000
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 33):
How does cancelling A388F and switching to A388 pax help Airbus increases the production rate?



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 35):
It doesn't change the production rate, but it would change the delivery rate.

AMTX is suggesting that EK convert the A380F delivery slots into passenger models so that the delivery of passenger aircraft is not delayed any more than necessary

When EK switched slots to the A388 from the A388F, they said they wanted to protect their delivery slots. And that was before the big program delay announcement I believe. In other words they decided they wanted A388s sooner when there was a small delay. With the big program delay, they might have decided that they want A388s as soon as possible, so all their slots will be for the passenger version.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 32):
Given that the entire A380 program is pushed back, if EK wants to get its A388 passenger fleet closer to the size they originally planned for in 2009/10, cancelling the A388F order makes sense.

OK that is great... Why did you quote me? You made no sense.
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fxramper
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:04 pm

Boeing 1

Airbus 0

Glad to see the 748F is gonna fly.  airplane 
 
coa747
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:06 pm

Everybody keeps talking about the A380F's range advantage but I don't think that is much of an advantage. The 747-400ERF can already bypass ANC or other refueling stops on the trans Pacific runs and most cargo stage lengths have been set by the range of the 747 freighters because it is the standard. You aren't going to change your whole dispersement strategy because the A380 can fly further. Carriers like Northwest Cargo, FedEx and UPS use places like ANC to tranship items to other planes. So the range issue means little I think. The heavy lifting will still be done by the 747's while the A380 is better for bulk package like FedEx does. UPS order for 747-400F's proves my point.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:11 pm

This would indeed be a good score for the 748F if the order goes ahead. Personally I thought EK would probably go with the 777F and the A380F, and continue to lease additional 744F's from companies like Atlas when additional lift is required. Seems EK are thinking differently!

Long live the 747!!
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 36):
And now they can deliver replacement engines in-house for when an A380 breaks-down

When the GP powerplant breaks down, of course.  Wink


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
columba
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 40):
Boeing 1

Airbus 0

Not quite true but I won�t go into another A vs B argument. As I said good for Boeing glad to see some more orders for the 747-8 and hope that some more orders will follow during this air show.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
manni
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:32 pm

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 41):
Everybody keeps talking about the A380F's range advantage but I don't think that is much of an advantage.

Advantages,

1) Flying (as example) ICN-JFK direct covers less distance than ICN-ANC-JFK, both ways.

2) Reduced flight times.

3) No extra handling, airport, navigational fees etc. without the additional stop.

4) Aircraft make money in the air, more groundtime is less money to be made.

5) Less groundtime, is less aircraft needed to cover the network.

6) Less cycles on the airframe, as compared to a one stop service.

Disadvantages,

Fuel needed to carry the extra fuel. Slightly offset by the extra take off a one stop service has to undertake.
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:44 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
It would have been nice however if EK purchased some of the -I (pax) version too.......

Perhaps the initial report was not quite correct as per the following report;

Emirates Airlines will launch the passenger version of the 747-8 with an order today at the Farnborough Air Show, a highly placed source at the airline confirmed

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...chnology/2003131651_787wing17.html

This will be one interesting announcement!

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
KC135R
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:41 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 46):
This will be one interesting announcement!

Interesting indeed, if it pans out, but I wonder because the Reuters article that this article refers to clearly says the "insider" information is that the order will be for the cargo version:


The airline is set to buy the cargo version of the plane, called the 747-8, the sources said...

http://today.reuters.com/stocks/Quot...ANSPORT-BOEING-EMIRATES.XML&rpc=66

I guess we'll just have to wait and see...either way, should be an all around interesting week for aviation.
 
slz396
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:50 pm

Looks like once again, we have a conflict of information from 2 respected sources. Sounds very similar to the situation we had last year, when FI reported Airbus to exceed their forecast of 200 A350 sales by 10 percent, with other media reporting them to miss is by 10 percent.

Unless EK will announce an order for 10 cargo 748s and simultaneously also order an identical number of 748 pax planes, one of the 2 sources must be wrong...

I think probably somebody got confused by the different models of the 748 and we will see EK order either the cargo version or the pax version...

I sincerely hope it is for the PAX version, because it is taking way too long for it to gain an order (not taking into account the single VIP order), although I think an -F order is more likely.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Report: Emirates To Buy 10 X B748-F

Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:55 pm

It does appear to come down to the sources but I just watched a live interview with Mr Randy Baseler of Boeing on Bloomberg AV, a subscription only service. The following is the exact Q&A in the interview in reference to a 747-8I order being announced at Farnborough;

Q: "Could we expect any orders (747-8I) announced here?"

A: "That's highly unlikely."

He appears to rule out a PAX order announcement at the show or he may well just be adhering to Boeing's rule of letting the customer announce the order, given the smile on his face! We await EKs announcement!

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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