warreng24
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Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:14 am

How often does this happen, if at all...

Assuming that a crew is certified/trained to operate both types, how often would a flight crew operate an A320 and then a 737?

For example, United operates both the A320 and 737. Does it ever occur that a Captain and First Officer will an A320 in, and then fly a 737 out on their next leg?
 
bucky707
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:19 am

I don't know of any airlines in the US that have dual quals anymore. Can't say about the rest of the world.

I know Delta for a while had what they called "dual pool" First officers. These were usually guys who were an engineer on say the 727 while also being qualified and flying as an FO on the DC-9. But that program went away years ago.

The only thing other than standard ops that I know of is Southwest which has some FOs qualified to fly as Captain. So they may fly a trip as an FO this week and as Captain next week.
 
ckfred
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:20 am

The FAA does allow pilots to be qualified on both the 757 and 767, since their cockpits are virtually identical, even though they are very different in terms of performance and procedures.
 
calpilot
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:18 am

Do crews fly other types of aircraft?

No not at any US carrier that I know of; maybe some Check Airman in the training departments, but not line pilots. A line pilot will normally fly his/her bid aircraft for the period of time that they can, or choose to hold that aircraft.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 2):
The FAA does allow pilots to be qualified on both the 757 and 767, since their cockpits are virtually identical, even though they are very different in terms of performance and procedures

Performance is not a big deal; procedures in both airplanes (B757/767) at my airline are excatly the same in most situations, normals, abnormals, and emergencies.
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:22 am

the thing which probably keeps airlines from doing this is the costs for training and simulator hours. Flying two cockpit types (757/767 or 320/330/340 don't count there) means having to have twice the amount of simulator hours and simulator checks to show your profeciency on both types. Wouldn't make sense for an airline.

Cheers,

Thilo
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
nwafflyer
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:32 am

so, take Northwest -- dc-9's are going away -- replaced by ERJ's (at least I hope so)/ The NWA dc-9 pilots/first officers can't fly the airbus, are they being re-trained on the ERJ?
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:34 am

A friend of mine who I bump into now and then at US is qualified on the A330/320 series and the 767/757. He told me he got bumped but is still qualified to fly both types.

So, its not that uncommon to see a guy fly a 757, then go to a 737 flt.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:55 am

I read a couple of years ago that Austrian Airlines was one of the few airlines in the world that has certified its pilots to fly both the 320 and 330/340 series of aircraft. Are these 2 aircraft really that much different to fly?
 
bucky707
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 6):
A friend of mine who I bump into now and then at US is qualified on the A330/320 series and the 767/757. He told me he got bumped but is still qualified to fly both types.

So, its not that uncommon to see a guy fly a 757, then go to a 737 flt.

I used to fly the 767/757, but I'm now on the 88. I still have my 767/757 ratings, but I don't fly them anymore. I bet your friend, while still technically qualified to fly all those planes, does not in fact still do it.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:46 am

I agree. I think he'll do an A320 series flt now and then. Bucky707 R U operating the DL flt out of MLB tomorrow?

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 455
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 5):
so, take Northwest -- dc-9's are going away -- replaced by ERJ's (at least I hope so)/ The NWA dc-9 pilots/first officers can't fly the airbus, are they being re-trained on the ERJ?

quick question: why can't they fly the Airbus?
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
bucky707
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 9):
R U operating the DL flt out of MLB tomorrow?

nope. Home with the kids tomorrow.
 
sw733
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:13 pm

A few years back I flew ORD-LHR and LHR-ORD on BA...a 744 on the way out, and a 772 on the way back, both with the same captain, Captain Geller. I thought it was somewhat odd, but neat.

[Edited 2006-07-17 05:13:31]
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:26 pm

I did meet a United Senior Captain who stated that he flew 737s and 757/767s during the same month. Found it strange but he seemed sencere.

LPLAspotter
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411A
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:34 am

RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:51 pm

Trans World Airlines for awhile allowed a few Captains to be qualified on THREE types at one time.
Specifically, the L1011, B747 and B767.

I personally know one of these guys, and he mentioned a LOT of simulator time was required to maintain qualification.

Reason enough to stick to one type, I would think.
 
antiuser
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 7):
Are these 2 aircraft really that much different to fly?

I would think not - that's one of the things Airbus is most proud about in their line of products. Save for the A300 and A310 which are equipped with yokes instead of side sticks, pilots rated on the A320 can transition to the A330 or A340 in a little over a week. The A380 cockpit was designed with commonality in mind as well, so A330/340 pilots can quickly transition to the big bird, although I don't know how long the transition training would take.
Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
 
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autothrust
Posts: 1455
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:03 pm

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 15):
pilots rated on the A320 can transition to the A330 or A340 in a little over a week. The A380 cockpit was designed with commonality in mind as well, so A330/340 pilots can quickly transition to the big bird, although I don't know how long the transition training would take.

Exactly, that's because fly bi wire and cockpit commonality. About CCQ time:

(whole family)
A320 to A380 15 days
A320 to A330/340 8 days
A340 to A380 13 days
A380 to A320 13 days
A330 to A340 3 days
A343 to A345/6 4 days

Airbus Cross Crew Qualification Brochure
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
levent
Posts: 1589
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RE: Flight Deck Crews Certified For Multiple Types

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:02 pm

At Air Exel a few pilots had active double type ratings, e.g. EMB120 and ERJ145. At Denim Air, pilots only flew one type (Fokker 50 or Dash 8) but at a certain point Denim started to get DH3 crews current on the F50 again before their ratings expired.

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