erela
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 7:14 pm

EU Black List Of Carriers

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:03 pm

I just went through the EU black list of carriers available online, and was surprised to find out how many are still MISSING from the list that in my mind would just as well have to be there.

What is the list criteria based on? Why is there Phuket Airlines, for instance, and not Orient Thai? None of the Russians are there but a list half full of Congo carriers which probably don't even have a single a/c capable of reaching the EU region by flying?

I would have another list as long with ideas of airliners to throw in, if anyone knows what these picks are based on..?
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5434
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: EU Black List Of Carriers

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:25 pm

Quoting Erela (Thread starter):
What is the list criteria based on?

It's nothing but a "feel good" measure. Th EUcrats probably said: "Let's pretend to be concerned about safety and put on the list bunch of African carriers, which don't even fly to Europe (that is if they actually do have any aircrafts) so it looks like we're doing something."
No one really has the guts to put on the list some Turkish or Egyptian or Russian airline, which have dozens of flights to EU every day, because there's too much politics involved.
We'll just have to wait for some Flash Air+Birgenair No.2 magnitude of a disaster to happen.
 
ehho
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:26 am

RE: EU Black List Of Carriers

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:30 pm

Quoting Erela (Thread starter):
None of the Russians are there

What Russian airlines do you consider putting in that list? Do you have any evidence of insufficient maintenance standards by any Russian airline? If you do, please share with us..
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: EU Black List Of Carriers

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:32 pm

Quoting Erela (Thread starter):
Why is there Phuket Airlines, for instance, and not Orient Thai?

Because Orient Thai has had none of the mishaps 9R had. All I've heard of is when HS-UTB dropped a wing panel on takeoff from HKG.

9R is (was) usually 5+ hours late, they had the fuel fiasco in DXB, unpaid fees in ICN - result was 743 impounded in LGW as well as ICN, banned from AMS. One YS11 overran the runway in Northern Thailand. Pretty much none of their aircraft passed the safety audit.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
ehho
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:26 am

RE: EU Black List Of Carriers

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:43 pm

For everyone's information, just to set out the (legal) framework and basis of this discussion:

The legal basis of the ban, EU commission regulation 2111/2005, as published in the Official Journal of the EU on 27.12.2005, containing the crieteria and purposes for carriers to be banned;

The actual list of banned airlines, (annex A of regulation 474/2006);

Regulation 910/2006, ammending that list with new carriers.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
pavlin
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:34 am

RE: EU Black List Of Carriers

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:04 pm

Quoting Erela (Thread starter):
None of the Russians

None of the fins also. How unsuspected
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2289
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: EU Black List Of Carriers

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:38 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 1):
No one really has the guts to put on the list some Turkish or Egyptian or Russian airline, which have dozens of flights to EU every day, because there's too much politics involved

Remember Onurair?

But I agree to a large extent, it comes down to window dressing. Putting some local Congolese airline on a black list isn't going to change much for aviation safety in Europe.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: EU Black List Of Carriers

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 1):
Birgenair No.2 magnitude of a disaster to happen

Birgen air has nothing to do with a poor quality turkish airline....the rampers put CLEAR tape over the static ports on the aircraft....we knew people onboard, you really should listen to the tapes and get the facts right...

banning an airline is one thing, using an irrelevant crash to ban an airline from the same country is rubbish
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: EU Black List Of Carriers

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting Erela (Thread starter):
What is the list criteria based on?

In theory, there are four different ways a carrier can find itself blacklisted.

a) The airline was found by a member country to be operating in an unsafe manner for any number of reason (aircraft not airworthy, lack of necessary records, not following maintenance procedures, etc...).

b) The civil aviation governing body (local FAA) of a country is found by a member country to be totally useless/incompetent/corrupt/unreliable/etc... in which case all airlines from that country are banned (that would be Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone and Swaziland).

c) Same as a) and b) but the finding is made by the European Aviation Safety Agency. In practice, a) and b) would be the two cases you'd expect to be the root cause of a ban.

Once EASA or a member state reports a violation as outlined above to the EU, the EU will hold a hearing within 10 days, where the carrier/country at fault can defend itself if it so chooses. A decision is made at the hearing and effective immediately.

There are a few exceptions to these broad guidelines. If a carrier is banned from operating in EU for any reason, it can get around the ban by using wet-leased aircraft. This is true even if the ban affects all airlines from one country, provided that the wet-leased aircraft's owner and country of registration are not themselves banned. This is how Hewa Bora Airways can still operate in the EU despite the ban imposed on all Congolese carriers.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.

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