slz396
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:48 pm

John Leahy is currently doing his presentation at Farnborough on the new A350.

He's said some remarkable thinks so far!

Go and see him live at: www.airbus.com

That redone A350 he's presenting is some increadible plane indeed: it makes the 787 look like a conservative design!

[Edited 2006-07-17 13:19:48]
 
manni
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:51 pm

Thanks for the info regarding the conference Slz396.

And the name is A350 XWB

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060717/britain_air_show.html?.v=3
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LY777
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:54 pm

let's wait and see!!!
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PanAm_DC10
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:57 pm

Other points from the live media conference;

- Specifications are complete
- 100 Days until Industrial Launch (early October)
- Service Entry target by Mid 2012
- Seeking a second engine supplier
- Engine thrusts are 75,000lbs; 87,000lbs and 95,000lbs respectively

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
EI321
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:59 pm

I cant get the link to work.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
95,000lbs

If its a 773 sized plane it will have to be very light indeed.
 
BigSky123
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:00 pm

One thing is for sure: the A350XWB is one cool looking plane!
 
slz396
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:01 pm

I've seen the entire presentation online and although you have to be careful with this kind of company organized presentations, the A350XWB (in 3 versions) has been extensively compared to both the 787(-8/-9/-10) and 777(-300) and looks like it is beating them on weight per seat, fuelburn per seat, and more importantly CASM: the smallest margin I've heard was that of the 787-8 over the A350-800 (2%) and the biggest difference was that of the A350-1000 vs the 777-300ER: a whopping 25%.
 
eclipz
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:02 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Thread starter):
it makes the 787 look like a conservative design!

don't you think it's a bit too much ? the 787 is a great technological step. what is so new in the XWB design ?

moreover, i guess the A350 won't use composite for the fuselage... so how can they have a lower weight per seat ?

[Edited 2006-07-17 13:03:16]

[Edited 2006-07-17 13:06:22]
 
EI321
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting BigSky123 (Reply 6):
One thing is for sure: the A350XWB is one cool looking plane!

Could someone post a pic?
 
leelaw
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:06 pm

Streiff says it won't be a 100% composite fuselage.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
BigSky123
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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:08 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):
Quoting BigSky123 (Reply 6):
One thing is for sure: the A350XWB is one cool looking plane!

Could someone post a pic?

There was a video playing during Leahy's presentation. There will be more pics on airbus' website i suppose.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:13 pm

He has got to say something to stop all the airlines who are about to order 787 or 777.

I really can't believe they have engineered this enough in the given time, to be able to come up with such a craft, although I am not denying that such a craft may be possible.

Ruscoe
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
100 Days until Industrial Launch (early October)

Means that we won't see any new A350 orders in the next couple of months. Will be interesting to see if there will be many new B787 orders. If Airbus has really firmed up the specs it will probably delay a couple of campaigns.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 10):
Streiff says it won't be a 100% composite fuselage.

Which might be a very clever move. However, until we actually learn a bit more about it we will probably have to refrain from speculating about what they are actually going to do. As a side-note: 50% composite, 20% aluminum, 15% titanium, 10% steel, 5% other - that's more or less the materials mix for the 787.
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eclipz
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:19 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 12):
He has got to say something to stop all the airlines who are about to order 787 or 777.

I really can't believe they have engineered this enough in the given time, to be able to come up with such a craft, although I am not denying that such a craft may be possible.

Ruscoe

Airbus' reputation is currently low... i don't think they can lie or nobody will trust them anymore... they make mistakes but they are not stupid...
 
EI321
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:19 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 12):
He has got to say something to stop all the airlines who are about to order 787 or 777.

If an airline needs planes sooner than 2012, then the 777 will still sell.
 
BA380
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:22 pm

aaagh - can't find any images... can anyone post a pic?
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
klmcedric
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:24 pm

They said the jury's still out wether it'll be bleed or no-bleed engine, but there's a tendency towards bleed as they are still not convinced of the advantages of bleedless engines.
 
leelaw
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:26 pm

Mr. Williams said there is no compelling case for adopting bleedless engine technology, and Mr. Leahy chimed-in with concern about increased maintenance costs using such a system.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
klmcedric
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:29 pm

Apparently it's commonly accepted by the Airbus folks to call it the A350X,
instead of adding the XWB all the time. I guess we can finally wave off the
A370 name now!
 
slz396
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:34 pm

Looks like the A350XWB is indeed sending the T7 packing (25% lower CASM) and according to what we've seen at the presentation, is also on a par with the 787 (CASM was said to be 2% lower).

List price of this 'golden airplane' according to Mr. Streiff is $185M for the -800.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting Eclipz (Reply 13):
Airbus' reputation is currently low... i don't think they can lie or nobody will trust them anymore... they make mistakes but they are not stupid...

Yes I agree with you and that is my point.

I hope the salesman is not too far ahead of the engineers or Airbus will suffer more credibility problems. Investors are conservative people as are most airlines, when it comes to the huge investment necessary to purchase a new fleet. IMO Leahy would be better off keeping it low key.
Didn't an American President once say; "speak softly & carry a big stick" ! I think this is what Airbus should be doing; talking conservatively and engineering a masterpiece.

Ruscoe
 
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Stitch
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:40 pm

I await with genuine interest the specifications as they are released.

And remember, the 777 still has six or more years, at a minimum, to record orders. Airlines that need capacity now (SQ, QR, EK, AC, AI, etc.) are all choosing the 777 rather then wait for the 787 or A350.
 
slz396
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
And remember, the 777 still has six or more years, at a minimum, to record orders

I think that what you will see is orders will soon start to become rarer for the 777, since no airline will want to be buying a plane which in 4 to 5 years after delivery is considered old and thirsty technology. Just look at the dip A330 orders took once the 787 established itself as clearly superior product for the future.
 
Tancrede
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:45 pm

Quoting Eclipz (Reply 13):
Airbus' reputation is currently low... i don't think they can lie or nobody will trust them anymore... they make mistakes but they are not stupid...

At the end, it could be that going through this difficult time forced Airbus to come with the ultimate product that will overtake the T7 and the 787 altogether. I think that we should be optimist.  cheerful 
 
EI321
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:51 pm

Sombody please post a pic!
 
mbj2000
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:54 pm

Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
astuteman
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 20):
I hope the salesman is not too far ahead of the engineers or Airbus will suffer more credibility problems

As I understand it, that's why a raft of senior engineers were called out of retirement by Airbus - as a "sanity check"
WSJ: Airbus Redesigns The A350 - Mr. U-H's C-note (by Leelaw Jul 14 2006 in Civil Aviation)

See this thread by Leelaw.

Quote :-
The veterans' mission was to act as a counterweight to the main team of Airbus engineers working on the new A350. "Our job was to look at the various configurations that Airbus had already put in the mill and come up with what we though was the best, given the limits" such as time, money and manpower, Mr. Tomassetti says...

Regards
 
slz396
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:57 pm

I've seen the images of the A350XWB during Mr Leahy's presentation and really the best way to describe it is a wider A330 with 787 style wings.

Mr Leahy said the A350XWB cabin would be 5 inches wider than the 787 at high level (so not floor level), would have straighter walls than the A330/A340 family and offer the most comfortable long haul cabin in the sky at 8 abreast and be -as a sneer to the 787- also a pleasure to fly in at 9 abreast as well, with humidity levels at 20% and cabin pressure at 5,000 to 6,000ft for most flights.

Also interesting to note Mr. Leahy said the RR engines of the A350XWB would have a TSFC of 2% less than the GEnx engine of the 787.

No exclusivity has been offered to RR to power the new XWB, but until a second engine manufacturer steps in, there is de facto exclusivity for RR. He said he expected most A350 customers who'd selected the GEnx engine to come over to the new A350XWB with RR engines (although one or two could be lost), and it was up to GE to decide if they want to be on what he described as the most efficient plane of the 21st century or not.

[Edited 2006-07-17 14:03:39]
 
RAPCON
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:01 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Thread starter):
That redone A350 he's presenting is some increadible plane indeed: it makes the 787 look like a conservative design!

I'm a huge Airbus fan, but the after the announcement, I'm still a bit skeptical. Why? Well for starters:

(1) Look at the source--Leahy. No credibility with me.
(2) The above statement sounds way to similar to the same sort of bragging statement that Leahy uttered a few months ago....and we all know what a fiasco his statements turned out to be.
(3) 95,000lbs??? ROE!!!
(4) They're making performance comparisons between an airplane that is not even close to being half-way built, and an airplane that only exists in the fiction of Leahy's immagination.
(5) No new leaps in technology here. So how is EADS going to accomplish all of this??
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eclipz
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 20):
I hope the salesman is not too far ahead of the engineers

I really really hope Leahy is not too optimistic but realistic...

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 20):
Didn't an American President once say; "speak softly & carry a big stick" ! I think this is what Airbus should be doing; talking conservatively and engineering a masterpiece.

yes, they should be careful but they also have to stop the bleeding... they have to say "wait... we have something interesting, it can compete the 787... don't buy it now"... as we say in France, "ils ont le cul entre 2 chaises"... "they have their ass between two chairs"

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 23):
At the end, it could be that going through this difficult time forced Airbus to come with the ultimate product that will overtake the T7 and the 787 altogether. I think that we should be optimist. cheerful

I hope you're right. Airbus is a great company, it's sad to see them "fail"... if they can learn from their mistakes, it's great... people working for Airbus have a lot of passion so they really can do awesome things. i'm confident.

Vincent
 
mbj2000
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:07 pm

From the data so far I guess it won't be a competitor to the 787-3 since a shorter version (A350-700?) would have a higher OEW.
So, no A300 replacement in sight?
Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:09 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 27):
would have straighter walls than the A330/A340 family

That is good to hear, given the sloping walls from the original Airbus widebody were the subject of a fair bit of criticism.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 27):
humidity levels at 20% and cabin pressure at 5,000 to 6,000ft for most flights.

I was under the impression the 787 was able to achieve such levels only because of the composite fuselage - I wonder whether this is an indication that there will be a larger than expected composite use, or whether they have found another way to achieve these results?

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
slz396
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:14 pm

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 31):
I wonder whether this is an indication that there will be a larger than expected composite use,

Although Mr Streiff said in response to a question from the audience, the A350 will NOT be entirely composite (which was a silly question really, because NO plane is entirely composite, not even the 787), Mr Leahy quoted the percentage points for each group of materials which will be used on the A350XWB during his presentation: it showed the A350XWB as making more overall use of composites than the 787 will do.

[Edited 2006-07-17 14:15:55]
 
astuteman
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:17 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 32):
it showed the A350XWB as making more overall use of composites than the 787 will do.

Composites or "modern materials"? (serious question...)

Regards
 
leelaw
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:19 pm

Farnborough: Airbus provides details of new A350 Xtra Wide Body (XWB) family of long-range twinjets

Airbus has today unveiled its revamp of its A350 aircraft offering, detailing a new wider A350 XWB aircraft family to enter service from the middle of 2012.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...dy+(XWB)+family+of+long-range.html

I'm sure this article will "fill-out" as the day progresses.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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autothrust
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:20 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 27):
would have straighter walls than the A330/A340 family and offer the most comfortable long haul cabin in the sky at 8 abreast and be -as a sneer to the 787- also a pleasure to fly in at 9 abreast as well

Da*n thats what im saying the whole time. The A380 has already the straightest walls so it was near Airbus would follow this with the new A350XBW. 

A350XWB - Xtra Wide Body (by Jet-lagged Jul 17 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quote:
Autothrust
The A380 has the "straightest" walls of any plane and i think they try to make a similar concept for the A350. So window seaters and big persons(and spotters ) will afford much more comfort.
Also with the 9 abreast the plane will offer more space then the 787 with 17 ".

You see MBJ2000     jk

BTW very good news and its outstanding 25% lower casm. But one thing makes me think pessimistic :Will not the 787 still be cheaper?
Wich new key technologys will the A350 feature?

And please could someone post a picture i dont have found one.

[Edited 2006-07-17 14:25:25]
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
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scbriml
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:22 pm

Info on the A350X now on Airbus's website:
http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a350/a350_xwb/index.html

Blurb also mentions an A350R (ULR) and A350F!  Wow!

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 17):
Mr. Williams said there is no compelling case for adopting bleedless engine technology, and Mr. Leahy chimed-in with concern about increased maintenance costs using such a system.

He also pointed out that the contract with RR was for bleeded (is that a word?) engines. In that case, the more efficient engines will give Airbus a chunk of the improvements over the old A350. Being bleeded, these engines cannot be used on the 787 and given the investment that RR & GE will have already pumped in to bleedless engines for the 787, I can't see them offering bleedless versions of the A350X engines before they've recouped their investments.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
astuteman
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 34):

Well spotted Leelaw.

Couple of interesting quotes:-

The A350 XWB will comprise three aircraft: A 314-seater, the A350-900, to enter service mid-2012, a 270-seat version, -800 to enter service in early 2013 and the 350-seat -1000 to enter service in the first quarter of 2014

In addition the family will comprise an A350-900L for ultra long-range aircraft and an A350-900 freighter


Second part is news to me, a freighter offering from the start.....

edit - sorry SCRIMBL - posted at same time......

Regards

[Edited 2006-07-17 14:26:33]
 
BA380
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:27 pm

the obvious question: how wide will the xtra wide cabin be...?
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
SNATH
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 36):

Thanks for the link!





I'll probably be bashed for this, but doesn't it look very B787-ish, or is it just me?

Tony

[Edited 2006-07-17 14:28:51]

[Edited 2006-07-17 14:30:24]
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
slz396
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:28 pm

Quoting BA380 (Reply 38):
how wide will the extra wide cabin be?

5 inches wider than the 787 cabin.
 
astuteman
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:31 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 39):
I'll probably be bashed for this, but doesn't it look very B787-ish, or is it just me?

It does, doesn't it....

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 40):
5 inches wider than the 787 cabin

only just a BIT wider  duck ...  Smile
 
slz396
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:32 pm

Seems like the Airbus.com site is having to cope with extremely high demand, as them announcing this A350XWB is undoubtedly the news of the day from the show.

Must say they've done a good job at working to this climax, keeping everybody confused as to what exactly they would announce, but judging from the things seen so far, this product and its specifications is pretty well defined already.
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:35 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 37):
an A350-900 freighter

That is somewhat unexpected. I wonder if it will be offered from the outset, or whether it is just an indication of something they will do further down the track. If it is going to be offered from the outset, I wonder what that means for the A330 freighter?

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
eclipz
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 39):
I'll probably be bashed for this, but doesn't it look very B787-ish, or is it just me?

it looks like a twin with curved winglets
 
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scbriml
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 37):
Second part is news to me, a freighter offering from the start.....

I can't believe they'll launch the freighter at the same time as the pax version (has that ever happened before?) If they are indeed launching the A330F at Farnborough they'll want to give that a good run before offering a competing product. Personally, I'd be surprised to see an A350XF before 2020.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
SNATH
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:37 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 41):
It does, doesn't it....

I can't wait for Randy's blog entry.  Smile

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
EI321
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:37 pm

Cant wait to see what Randy comes up with in his next blog  Smile
 
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autothrust
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:38 pm

Quote:
Airbus

The A350 XWB family will have the highest content of new and advanced materials of any aircraft, including an extensive use of advanced alloys and CFRP (Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic) resulting in the lightest aircraft per seat in this category.

The new generation engines, in the 75,000-95,000 lb thrust range, will power the A350 XWB family with exceptionally low noise and environmental impacts.


Looks outstanding, just the little picture indeed does it look like the 787. But I'm sure when we will see better images it will look pretty different.

It will have more CFRP then the 787.   
I would call this plane a polymere plane Big grin

That means also Airbus will need to buy new autoclaves and bigger then the ones for the 787 or i am wrong?

And the engine thrust will come near the GE-90 i wonder how big the Fan & Nacelle will be.

[Edited 2006-07-17 14:42:57]
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
parapente
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RE: Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:38 pm

Where does this leave the Trent 900?-Other than on the scrapheap. Clearly this new (it must be new) engine will be far more efficient than the "old" 900.
As such Airbus must put the new engine on the 380.-it offers exactly the same thrust range and is "bleed" It will blow the 747-800 away if its as good as they say it is - but that is another matter.

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