ultrapig
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:38 pm

777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:22 am

There is a report that Boeing will try to do this to conclude the sale to Qantas.

Can some of tell me how such a large amount of weight could be removed from a completed airliner?
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Thread starter):
Can some of tell me how such a large amount of weight could be removed from a completed airliner?

Maybe they're taking off a wing!  rotfl 
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
hiflyer
Posts: 1272
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:38 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:33 am

Naaah..gonna be the first single engine 777. Big grin  Big grin


Really...suspect they are going to draw on what they have learned with composites on the 787 and redo certain structures...15 years of advances in construction from the original design time should be able to help.
 
firennice
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:55 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:36 am

Move to additional composite structures.
That could be why the 737 composite upgrade has been pushed back to 2014-5 is to rework the 777 in additional composites.
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 2):
Naaah..gonna be the first single engine 777.

I immediately thought of this too!

Quoting Ultrapig (Thread starter):
There is a report that Boeing will try to do this to conclude the sale to Qantas.

Would a 7 ton lighter B777LR be able to reach nirvana? (i.e. LHR-SYD with no restrictions?).

Another question is: I assume they might "backport" the modifications to the B773ER too, to make it even more competitive?

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11866
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:49 am

Once upon a time I had a conversation with a structural engineer on the 777 who noted that many of the joint connections had to be rushed to meet schedule and thus several tons of weight were added (due to the lack of optimization). Combine this will selected material replacement and one would have a 7 ton lighter 777.  scratchchin 

As we know, weight is very important in an airliner.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:51 am

Boeing said all along that they would incorporate 787 technology into the 777 sometime. So there you go...............
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:55 am

B772SP - Sea plane! No gears!
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
Geo772
Posts: 439
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:40 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
Would a 7 ton lighter B777LR be able to reach nirvana? (i.e. LHR-SYD with no restrictions?).

Almost certainly. The problem with the current 772LR is that it is very payload restricted on the SYD-LHR sector for some of the year. By removing 7 tonnes in zero fuel weight you have effectively 7 tonnes of payload to play with when fully juiced up, thus changing the route from being marginal to very possible with good passenger and freight loads.

It would be great if Boeing do acheive this as it will make the trip to and from Oz all the more pleasant.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
 
Tom12
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:29 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
Maybe they're taking off a wing!

Pmsl  rotfl 

Tom
"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
 
pavlin
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:34 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:04 am

The 2 engined planes proved very safe. But I still hope we wont have single 250000 lb engine on 777.
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5010
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
I assume they might "backport" the modifications to the B773ER too, to make it even more competitive?

and the 777-200ER... I would think the timing of this change is critical. I have to think that carriers such as NZ are sitting on their hands waiting to see how this plays out.
Boeing had conversations with 777 operators about a year ago to sound them out
on what they were looking for.
 
siromega
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:57 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):

Another question is: I assume they might "backport" the modifications to the B773ER too, to make it even more competitive?

Indeed, after Airbus' talk of the A35XX having 25% better CASM than the 773ER, I think its more or less required (even if the real numbers turn out to be half that).
 
flyingKangaroo
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:29 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 7):
B772SP - Sea plane! No gears!

From Botany Bay to the Thames! Big grin

flyingKangaroo
QANTAS-- The Spirit of Australia
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 8):
Almost certainly. The problem with the current 772LR is that it is very payload restricted on the SYD-LHR sector for some of the year. By removing 7 tonnes in zero fuel weight you have effectively 7 tonnes of payload to play with when fully juiced up, thus changing the route from being marginal to very possible with good passenger and freight loads.

It would be great if Boeing do acheive this as it will make the trip to and from Oz all the more pleasant.

will be interesting to see how the numbers of the A350-900L look....
"Up the Irons!"
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 8):
By removing 7 tonnes in zero fuel weight you have effectively 7 tonnes of payload to play with when fully juiced up, thus changing the route from being marginal to very possible with good passenger and freight loads

You are presuming constant MTOW of course.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Geo772
Posts: 439
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:40 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 15):
Quoting Geo772 (Reply 8): By removing 7 tonnes in zero fuel weight you have effectively 7 tonnes of payload to play with when fully juiced up, thus changing the route from being marginal to very possible with good passenger and freight loads
You are presuming constant MTOW of course.

Pretty much, simply because the one thing that Qantas in particular wanted was the aircraft to be able to do this extreme trip with a high load. I think if you just took 7 tonnes out of the structure and MTOW then although the range would go up it might not be enough to allow for the high loads that Qantas and other carriers will want. It would still make it an even more capable aircraft than it is now.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
 
pavlin
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:34 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:03 am

The 777 7 tons lighter, would possibly compete with A350. Altough even the super heavy A350 will only have 95 000 lb class engines and no composites. They will need some good engineering to acomplish that task.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
will be interesting to see how the numbers of the A350-900L look....

Yep, if the world even exists in 2016, it will be interesting to see...  Wink

359L sounds to be a long way off (using 350-1000x engines and gear means it'll come AFTER that jet). A lot can change in 10 years.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ShowerOfSparks
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 9:22 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Thread starter):
There is a report that Boeing will try to do this to conclude the sale to Qantas.

Can some of tell me how such a large amount of weight could be removed from a completed airliner?

Maybe they are considering a shrink along the lines of the 707-138's built specifically for Q.A.N.T.A.S. way back when.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
Yep, if the world even exists in 2016, it will be interesting to see...  Wink

Well..I guess you are right.... Smile

But its still interesting to see what comes of the A350-900L super-duper ultra longhaul-ultra-777 killer plane... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting ShowerOfSparks (Reply 19):
Maybe they are considering a shrink along the lines of the 707-138's built specifically for Q.A.N.T.A.S. way back when.

I would personally doubt this. I think manufacturers are trying to reduce the number of sub-models they offer, to keep the manufacturing process as simple as possible. I would be very surprised if Boeing introduces one new submodel just for one airline.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
firennice
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:55 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:20 am

It is the composite structure.

We have worked with them in drilling/countersinking to replace parts with lighter parts. Composites make up only 12% of the current 777 structure weight. They will be starting to use more of what they learn from the 787 to replace more and more with composites.

There are not a lot of parts that are composite now. With the announcment they will be converting 737 to composites in a few years its only natural to shift this one as well.
 
Revo1059
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:14 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:07 am

Interesting. I wonder if this means they could slowly morph the 777 into a mostly composite plane without making a completely new model. The 777 is already a top notch plane. Just swap out the metal with CF as time goes on to keep it competitive. Saves a ton on development costs vs. a totally new plane.
 
firennice
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:55 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:13 am

I was thinking about it and thought I should throw in a disclaimer....I am not sure if the work we are doing is part of this 7 tons they are lightening the craft. I am pretty sure what we are working on does decrease the weight but it might not be that particular project. So they could be counting something else as well.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23213
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:30 am

I imagine if Boeing can knock off 14,000lbs off the 772-LR, they should be able to get that or more out of the 777-300ER which should help it compete against the A350 as well as improve it's position even more against the A340.
 
highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Firennice (Reply 22):
There are not a lot of parts that are composite now. With the announcment they will be converting 737 to composites in a few years its only natural to shift this one as well.

its only a matter of time. dumping 7 tons must be quite appealing to Qantas for their SYD-LHR wish list...

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 16):
Pretty much, simply because the one thing that Qantas in particular wanted was the aircraft to be able to do this extreme trip with a high load. I think if you just took 7 tonnes out of the structure and MTOW then although the range would go up it might not be enough to allow for the high loads that Qantas and other carriers will want. It would still make it an even more capable aircraft than it is now.

 checkmark 
121
 
astuteman
Posts: 6347
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 17):
Altough even the super heavy A350 will only have 95 000 lb class engines and no composites

No composites? A350X composite content is reported as being 45% of total weight (compared to 35% for the "old" A350 IIRC, and 50% for the 787).

http://www.bdtonline.com/business/fe...FRG1.xml.txt/resources_apstoryview

The new A350 will make greater use of composites _ which make up 45 percent of its mass, compared with 50 percent for the 787. It will also offer a more comfortable passenger cabin than its rival's, Leahy said

So some substantial changes HAVE been made .

Quoting Revo1059 (Reply 23):
. I wonder if this means they could slowly morph the 777 into a mostly composite plane without making a completely new model

Don't think so. That would be a complete redesign (which will happen with Y3, of course). I reckon the most you'll see is composite tailcone + wings.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 5):
Once upon a time I had a conversation with a structural engineer on the 777 who noted that many of the joint connections had to be rushed to meet schedule and thus several tons of weight were added (due to the lack of optimization). Combine this will selected material replacement and one would have a 7 ton lighter 777.

This will be more like it. Like the man says  Smile

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
will be interesting to see how the numbers of the A350-900L look....

Early days yet, but here's a start on that one.  Smile

http://today.reuters.com/stocks/Quot...NSPORT-AIRBUS-350-RANGE.XML&rpc=66

The A350-900R will extend the 8,500 nautical mile (15,740 km) range of the family of A350 aircraft by 800 to 1,000 nautical miles, Kiran Rao, executive vice president of marketing at the Toulouse-based planemaker, told Reuters.

Regards
 
Jet-lagged
Posts: 819
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:58 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 26):
7 tons must be quite appealing to Qantas for their SYD-LHR wish list...

Seven tons is 14,000 lbs, or about 6,300 kg.

Let's say a passenger averages 80 kg, plus 50 kb for baggage, that is 130 kg. Add a factor for fuel (say 5%, since the fule already have to fly the plane and the original fuel), and you've got around 136.5 kg. So 6,300 is the equivalent of 46 passengers. Quite a lot. Even if that is half wrong, say it is 23 passengers. Forget about cargo.

Presumably mostly higher paying biz and first class passengers will be more able, and willing, in their larger and more comfy seats, to spend 20 hours inside a high-speed can at one go. Let's assume the tickets averages US$2,500 (one way).

That makes have 23 X $2,500 = US$57,000 more revenue per flight.

So, 7 tons would make a large difference in the economics . . . but whether it is enough for Q to make money on the run, is another story.
 
MarBergi
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:56 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting Jet-lagged (Reply 28):
Presumably mostly higher paying biz and first class passengers will be more able, and willing, in their larger and more comfy seats, to spend 20 hours inside a high-speed can at one go. Let's assume the tickets averages US$2,500 (one way).

That makes have 23 X $2,500 = US$57,000 more revenue per flight.

Allowing for the pax figures to be correct you could double or qudaruple the price (assuming LHR - SYD) and then you start to talk real money...
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Revo1059 (Reply 23):
Just swap out the metal with CF as time goes on to keep it competitive.

It's not that easy. Look at airplanes like the Learfan or Myron Jenkins' GlaStar. Jenkins' (who had already built an Ohskosh Grand Champion-winning Glasair III) GlaStar had a composite wing (normally metal). He custom-fabricated all the pieces from fiberglass and carbon fiber to make the wing, and it was heavier than stock (not surprising).

Composities can be lighter, but the necessary structure must be designed for it (like the 787's wing or the fuselage barrel sections).
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting Jet-lagged (Reply 28):
Let's assume the tickets averages US$2,500 (one way).

Assume those seats average $5000 at least. So that's at least $100,000 per take-off. Over $0.5M per week in revenue per plane?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
sonic67
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:43 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:10 am

Qantas is currently talking to suppliers about lighter materials that could be used for the interiors to reduce the 777-200LR weight. Qantas wants a lighter 777 to make it's none stop Sydney to London, New York and Dallas more profitable.

Below is the link to the Flight International article.
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...aluates+777+for+Sydney-London.html

My question is their enough material in the interior to lighten to make up 7 to 9 tonnes?
 
RAPCON
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:20 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
Maybe they're taking off a wing!

No, no. You've got it all wrong!!

Q: How can B reduce the weight of a 777LR by 7 tons?
A: Easy! Just have Leahy make the sales pitch!!!!!
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting ShowerOfSparks (Reply 19):
Maybe they are considering a shrink along the lines of the 707-138's built specifically for Q.A.N.T.A.S. way back when.

You mean Q.U.A.N.T.A.S?  biggrin 
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
jetpilot21
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 3:43 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:06 am

Weight saving efforts are common in the final design process before a new airplane starts production. Weight saving exercises are also very common after the airplane has started flight test as well. Witness the 777-200LR effort. What a weight savings effort does is fine tune the pencils (well computers nowadays) to take out some of the weight that was added to the preliminary design after further engineering analysis identifies extra weight that had been conservatively built into the design. The key 787 weight news is that the aircraft is not that far over design weight. Therefore, a fine tuning of the design can take place rather than a more drastic weight cutting process that often sacrifices longevity of the airframe to meet certain other customer guarantees.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4348
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:44 am

Quoting ShowerOfSparks (Reply 19):
Maybe they are considering a shrink along the lines of the 707-138's built specifically for Q.A.N.T.A.S. way back when.

It was not THAT far back! It was Qantas Empire Airlines(QEA) at the time of the B707-138s

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
Johnny
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:38 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:36 pm

@Jet-Lagged

"Seven tons is 14,000 lbs, or about 6,300 kg. "

WHAT...?!?

Johnny  Smile
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 27):
Early days yet, but here's a start on that one.  Smile

http://today.reuters.com/stocks/Quot...NSPORT-AIRBUS-350-RANGE.XML&rpc=66

The A350-900R will extend the 8,500 nautical mile (15,740 km) range of the family of A350 aircraft by 800 to 1,000 nautical miles, Kiran Rao, executive vice president of marketing at the Toulouse-based planemaker, told Reuters.

thank you very much sir. Smile

That puts the range to 9200-9500nm...close to the "holy grail" numbers of 9200nm (SYD-LHR) if Airbus could indeed hit their numbers........I think QF is taking all of this with a bit grain of salt....hence them pushing Boeing to get the -200LR down to the required weight......
"Up the Irons!"
 
sonic67
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:43 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:42 pm

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 34):
You mean Q.U.A.N.T.A.S?

No I meant Q.A.N.T.A.S. If you're going to heckle someone, get your facts right!

The article makes it sound as if Qantas is hiring the vendors to do the weight reduction... is that right? I ask again, is there enough material in the 777 cabin to save 7 tons of weight?
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 37):
"Seven tons is 14,000 lbs, or about 6,300 kg. "

WHAT...?!?

7 tons (also called short tons) = 14,000 lbs.
7 tonnes (also called long tonnes) = 7,000 kg.
 
aeroplan73
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:59 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting Ultrapig (Thread starter):
Can some of tell me how such a large amount of weight could be removed from a completed airliner?

Maybe Boeing will fill the cabin with helium.  Big grin
I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
 
Johnny
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:38 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:45 pm

Hi Zveza,

that is funny to read.Thanks for your help.

I thought tons/tonnes is metric, so 7 tons are always 7000kgs...

But i learn every day!

 Smile
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:10 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 40):
7 tons (also called short tons) = 14,000 lbs.
7 tonnes (also called long tonnes) = 7,000 kg



Quoting Johnny (Reply 42):
I thought tons/tonnes is metric, so 7 tons are always 7000kgs...

I don't know if there is any difference between ton and tonnes, but in the context of American English, no one uses tonnes to refer to anything but metric tons. I explicitly say metric tons in general, or just use the abbreviation (lowercase t).
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Johnny
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:38 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:26 pm

Hmmm,

So what is correct now?

7000kgs or 6300kgs for 7tons ?

To be honest i have never heard about short and long tons as the word tons in german is related to thousand, like usual in the metric system.

 Smile
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:34 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 40):
7 tons (also called short tons) = 14,000 lbs.
7 tonnes (also called long tonnes) = 7,000 kg.

That's actually incorrect...


here are the correct numbers and nomenclatures..

7 short ton = approx. 6350 kg
7 long ton (UK-ton) = appox. 7112 kg
7 metric tonnes (metric-tonne)= exactly7000 kg
7 short ton (US-ton) = approx 6350 kg..

my Physical Chemistry profs would have given me an "F" if I made those mistakes... biggrin ...
"Up the Irons!"
 
Johnny
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:38 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:15 pm

I will never understand why the metric system is not the standard system, but that is a different story...

Why making everything more difficult than nec.?


 Smile
 
airmailer
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:28 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 33):
No, no. You've got it all wrong!!

Q: How can B reduce the weight of a 777LR by 7 tons?
A: Easy! Just have Leahy make the sales pitch!!!!!

 checkmark 
 rotfl 

Very Nice there RAPCON!!
Good Call.
 
airmailer
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:28 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:14 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 46):
I will never understand why the metric system is not the standard system, but that is a different story...

Why making everything more difficult than nec.?



because we like being different.
Why does everything have to be so uniform with you europeans?  Wink
 
SFORunner
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:23 am

RE: 777-LR To Be Lightened By 7 Tons

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting Aeroplan73 (Reply 41):
Maybe Boeing will fill the cabin with helium.

On a related note, to help reduce total weight, PAX will be sitting on inflatible chairs that will double as personal flotation devices/life rafts and parachutes in the event of evacuation.

Paper plates will be used for catering and iPod Videos utilized as IFE.