WJ
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Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:35 am

This is from Today's (July 14th) Times Online. Surprisingly though it's not about the concept, just the service.

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11250-2270501,00.html
146,727,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,300,310,319,320,321,330,343,DC9,D10,MD11,M80,E17
 
LHR777
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:56 am

Did anyone also notice the irony in the fact that the following are on the same web page...?

"Business Travel, in association with British Airways"
"Business Travel Guide - stay one step ahead with British Airways"
"Click here to read the BA.com destination guide"
"Club World - Discover the benefits of Business Class"
"BA Business Travel Guide (again!!) "
"British Airways Fare Finder"
"Executive Club Rewards - join now"
"BA.com Travel Service"
and finally...
"Have more control over your schedule - Click Here"

Can you see the Times' Online's possible bias....?  Wink
 
ehho
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:59 am

Hear, hear..

Hmm... how come I get suspicious when I open this article andd right next to it I see a fairly big BA banner??



Shame on the Times of London!! BEing already a mediocre newspaper, they only get worse!

[Edited 2006-07-17 18:00:27]
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
cedarjet
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:02 am

Yeah The Times is pretty much unreadable these days. It's a tabloid both metaphorically and literally. You'd think they'd at least hide the BA branding for the day to make it less obvious.

I think MaxJet have a great concept and I've heard they're doing well. Not so sure about Eos, PS.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Geo772
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:05 am

BA almost certainly pays quite a lot for targetted advertising like this. Interestingly in previous years their adverts graced the same page as news stories about passengers nightmare experiences caused by the various strikes of the past.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
 
LHR777
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 3):
Not so sure about Eos, PS.

Well, according to MaxJet in the article, Eos are fully booked!
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:20 am

EOS Airlines have reported a 72% L/F with an average ticket at $5700.00 per person plus taxes. That is an average of $200,000.00 Per Flight. In contrast with Max Jet who is struggling to make its single daily flight from JFK and IAD fill up with over 100 pax, at rates in the area of $900-$1900.00 per person.

EOS Airlines will start its 2nd JFK flight in September 6 x per week. And EOS Airlines is rumored to add Paris in mid 2007, followed by Frankfurt and Amsterdam. Looks as if the management team with EOS has the market cornered.

A friend who recently flew both EOS Airlines and MaxJet remarked that the seats on MaxJet had frayed stitching, Flight Attendants that tried hard, but didnt make a fitting impression, and an overall cabin that reminded them of AA's Trans-Con 767 older Business Class interior. Of note was that the overhead bins were of the same style that TWA had, and the bathrooms permiated with an odor less than befitting of Business Class.

On the flip side in the graces of EOS Airlines they remarked that they were escorted from the Check-In Desk to the Lounge at JFK. Onboard EOS they were all to happy to see the elaborate meal presentation and intimate cabin ambience. They also remarked that EOS Airlines Flight Attendants seemed more polished than MaxJet by far, and said the arrival sedan at Stansted topped off the most amazing Trans-Atlantic flight they have had since the days of BA Concorde.

[Edited 2006-07-17 18:44:42]

[Edited 2006-07-17 18:45:35]
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jaysit
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 6):
A friend who recently flew both EOS Airlines and MaxJet remarked that the seats on MaxJet had frayed stitching, Flight Attendants that tried hard, but didnt make a fitting impression, and an overall cabin that reminded them of AA's Trans-Con 767 older Business Class interior. Of note was that the overhead bins were of the same style that TWA had, and the bathrooms permiated with an odor less than befitting of Business Class.

OK. So, one seat out of 102 may have frayed stitching. Sometimes, BA's club seats have frayed stitching too (after all, these seats have to sometimes hold an obese 275 lb man for 8+ hours). As for it resembling AA's 767 Transcon J class, your friend is talking BS. AA J Class transcon never had 62 " seat pitch and a seat that reclined 160 degrees. Also, MaxJet charge between $ 1000 - 1700 for a R/T ticket; EOS charges $ 5200. For the price differential of about $ 4000, I can deal with a meal that isn't uber fabulous, and a lav that isn't stuffed with Armani products. All I really want to do on a Transatlantic flight, is have a decent meal (which MaxJet serve up in spades), be treated courteously (which MaxJet do in spades), and sleep (which I've done on all my MaxJet flights). If a client wants to fly me Virgin or BA, then its all fine and dandy, but I intend to stick with MaxJet for all travels to Europe paid for with my own $$$.

Their major problem, of course, is lack of aircraft. If a flight is delayed or is in need of repair, then the whole concept breaks down. But then, I've been stuck in Hong Kong before when a BA flight went technical, and the CX flights were full. When you pay $ 4000 less than the competition, you don't expect your flight to be delayed by 10 hours, but you should remain aware that it just may happen.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 7):
For the price differential of about $ 4000, I can deal with a meal that isn't uber fabulous, and a lav that isn't stuffed with Armani products. All I really want to do on a Transatlantic flight, is have a decent meal (which MaxJet serve up in spades), be treated courteously (which MaxJet do in spades), and sleep (which I've done on all my MaxJet flights). If a client wants to fly me Virgin or BA, then its all fine and dandy, but I intend to stick with MaxJet for all travels to Europe paid for with my own $$$.

EOS Airlines management includes Virgin Atlantic and British Airways experience in addition to Charles Schwab and Singapore Airlines. Put your dollar with the airline that knows how to fly..  wink 


Quoting Jaysit (Reply 7):
Their major problem, of course, is lack of aircraft.

Or is it a lack of modern aircraft. EOS Airlines average fleet age is 12, what is MAXJET. In addition MAXJET exists for people who otherwise couldnt afford to fly Business to fly Business in other words EOS Airlines for the people who can afford it, and MAXJET is not. Just as Southwest Airlines is there for the people that cannot afford it, and Singapore Airlines is there for the clients that can afford it.
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LH459
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:00 am

According to Sabre, Maxjet does indeed have an interlline agreement with VS (though not BA). So, somebody got their facts wrong.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:10 am

Ohhhhh the irony!  
Big version: Width: 819 Height: 682 File size: 85kb


[Edited 2006-07-17 22:15:29]
 
jaysit
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 8):
Or is it a lack of modern aircraft. EOS Airlines average fleet age is 12, what is MAXJET.

MaxJets 767s are 21 yrs old, from what I know. But they sport new and clean interiors. In any case, their aircraft are FAA certified and are airworthy. Their inflight service is impeccable, the meals are good, the wines and spirits superb. The IFE they provide is also very substantial for a 7 hour flight. I seriously don't care about any additional geegaws, as long as I can sleep and have a decent inflight meal, and can watch a bit of TV before and after dinner.

If I wanted to spend $ 5500 to fly transatlantic, I'd take BA ClubWorld to LHR. Why would I wish to spend that kind of money on EOS and land in Stansted (unless I had work out there)? But if I spend $ 1100-1800, I'd have no qualms about flying into Stansted and taking the STN Express into London (45 minutes instead of 15 on the LHR express). I am taking 2 additional short trips this fall to Europe (Dubrovnik and then Berlin), and have flights booked on MaxJet to Stansted to get me across the pond.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 11):
Their inflight service is impeccable, the meals are good, the wines and spirits superb.

Sounds like British Airways World Traveleller Class..  wink 

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 11):
The IFE they provide is also very substantial for a 7 hour flight

The same can be said on United Airlines Economay Class 777 Trans-Pacific offerings..

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 11):
But if I spend $ 1100-1800, I'd have no qualms about flying into Stansted and taking the STN Express into London (45 minutes instead of 15 on the LHR express).

The MaxJet audience is not the EOS or British Airways audience. Funny as it may be EOS Airlines has a "royal" spokewomen per say. You will have to research their website to see who it is. In addition EOS is believe it or not, on a par with British Airways Club World and Virgin Atlantic Upper Class. When was the last time you flew on an airline that escorted you to your departure lounge, called you by name, or had a sedan waiting for you on arrival?
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LAXintl
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:26 am

EOS and Maxjet target very much for different travellers. As time goes on and Maxjet continues offering continual stream of fare sales this difference becomes more apparent.

EOS is trying to offer a true premium product and capture a crowd that is willing to pay for it. While not Concorde replacement they are trying to play to a niche audience.

Maxjet instead manages to draw people that previously would be paying for a Economy + product, and lure them with a basic business class product. Hate to say it, however a poor mans business class that does not match true business class products of carriers such as BA and VS.

Another handicap faced by these airlines besides operating a limited schedule serving Stansted is the lack of tie in with other carriers. The marketing power of frequent flyer programs and the loyalty they drive is quite something. Unless one has no interest in miles, it will be hard to get people to switch to either airline.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Laxintl:
The marketing power of frequent flyer programs and the loyalty they drive is quite something.

Eos offers anyone who flys them miles with any airlines through a number of agreements.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 14):
Eos offers anyone who flys them miles with any airlines through a number of agreements.

EOS does NOT offer any miles on other airlines programs for travel on EOS.

You might want to read up on their "Club 48" program.

The only travel tie in they have is as with some non co-branded credit cards they will go out an purchase you a ticket on another airline and debit the points from your Club 48 accounts. So for instance you want a ticket that cost $4000 that will cost you 400,000 Club 48 points, a pretty crazy amount considering each roundtrip on EOS only nets 7500 Club 48 points. One would be much better sticking with AA, BA, UA, VS etc. whom all offer awards at significantly lower levels.

The EOS program is somewhat similar to some Chase, Capital One credit cards that earn points that can be used to purchase merchandise or tickets on any carrier.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jacobin777
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 11):
MaxJets 767s are 21 yrs old, from what I know. But they sport new and clean interiors. In any case, their aircraft are FAA certified and are airworthy. Their inflight service is impeccable, the meals are good, the wines and spirits superb. The IFE they provide is also very substantial for a 7 hour flight. I seriously don't care about any additional geegaws, as long as I can sleep and have a decent inflight meal, and can watch a bit of TV before and after dinner.

If I wanted to spend $ 5500 to fly transatlantic, I'd take BA ClubWorld to LHR. Why would I wish to spend that kind of money on EOS and land in Stansted (unless I had work out there)? But if I spend $ 1100-1800, I'd have no qualms about flying into Stansted and taking the STN Express into London (45 minutes instead of 15 on the LHR express). I am taking 2 additional short trips this fall to Europe (Dubrovnik and then Berlin), and have flights booked on MaxJet to Stansted to get me across the pond.

=multiple high quality trips over the pond over EOS......

not everyone is willing to pay $5000 from their own pocket to sleep for a few hours....MaxJet fulfils that need to get a better quality flight than WTP+ at a good price....

"upper class bourgeoisie" services is what I call...while not "nobility"...its still pretty kick ass!
"Up the Irons!"
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 15):
The only travel tie in they have is as with some non co-branded credit cards they will go out an purchase you a ticket on another airline and debit the points from your Club 48 accounts. So for instance you want a ticket that cost $4000 that will cost you 400,000 Club 48 points, a pretty crazy amount considering each roundtrip on EOS only nets 7500 Club 48 points. One would be much better sticking with AA, BA, UA, VS etc. whom all offer awards at significantly lower levels.

Hate to break the news to you, but the frequent flyer perks are becoming less and less as pasengers realize that the miles in many cases are worthless. The days of travellers flocking to airlines for a few hundred or thousand miles is over. In the U.S. and with British Airways for example the perks are dying and the fees to cash in are rising. EOS will survive as it is a niche airline in the wealthiest O/D corridor in the World London to New York. In addition the London to New York corridor is one of a few that rely heavily on Premium products while routes like SFO-HKG/LAX-AMS rely heavily on the Y cabin and Cargo.
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N770WD
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 6):
EOS Airlines have reported a 72% L/F with an average ticket at $5700.00 per person plus taxes.

Eos published a load factor of 72% for June 2006. It is good news that they are doing well. As MalpensaSFO and others state Eos is after a different market than MAXjet. Eos provides a true first-class service for (supposedly) a Business Class fare. MAXjet provides a Business Class service at an Economy/Premium Economy fare.

MalpensaSFO -- can you share your reference for the $5,700 average ticket price? Published government data (DOT Schedule P-11) shows Eos averaged $1,260 per round-trip passenger during the last reporting period. Since that includes corporate trial seats, give-aways and such it's not bad for a new entrant but it's nowhere near the $5,700 you state. It's possible they improved five-fold in a couple of months but not likely.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 8):
Or is it a lack of modern aircraft. EOS Airlines average fleet age is 12, what is MAXJET.

Both fleets are considered mature. Eos' three aircraft were delivered in 1992, 1994 and 1995. MAXjet's three were delivered in 1984, 1985 and 1986. The benefits of a "modern" fleet are largely extinguished by the tenth year of operations.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 6):
In contrast with Max Jet who is struggling to make its single daily flight from JFK and IAD fill up with over 100 pax

Given 102 available seats, you are correct that MAXjet would struggle to achieve 100 passenger average loads. However, MAXjet has commented publicly on their strong loads and that topic has been well covered in other threads.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 17):

Outside of price, frequently flyer affiliations is still one of the top decision factors for flyer's. This theme is repeatedly shown in consumer travel purchase surveys for both the VFR and premium traveller which I regularly review.
I've even seen studies indicating people would sacrifice price, schedule convenience, direct routing's etc. just for FF miles and benefits.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jaysit
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 12):
Sounds like British Airways World Traveleller Class..

BA WT doesn't offer 62" of pitch, meals on China and unlimited Piper Heideseck Champagne, unless they issued a news release stating that today.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 12):
The same can be said on United Airlines Economay Class 777 Trans-Pacific offerings..

No it doesn't. What MaxJet offer is significantly superior. The DigE players have about 20 movies, a dozen TV shows, etc. All of which can be stopped and started at your own leisure.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
Hate to say it, however a poor mans business class that does not match true business class products of carriers such as BA and VS.

I've flown Business on MaxJet, BA, VS, DL and United across the pond and they all offer slightly different products pegged to the price one pays. What exactly is a "true" Business Class service anyways? All these airlines offer a true Business Class service. Some offer a Business Class service that is more luxurious than others. In fact, VS offers 2 different levels of J class service. A discounted J Class fare doesn't get you a limo pickup, while the full fare does. And in comparison with some of Virgin's "I'm busy being fabulous or giggly" FAs, those on MaxJet are professional and offer a very high quality of personalized service.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 17):
Hate to break the news to you, but the frequent flyer perks are becoming less and less as pasengers realize that the miles in many cases are worthless.

Exactly. US carriers are using smaller aircraft on many routes and its becoming virtually impossible to cash in your miles on popular routes.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 20):
Exactly. US carriers are using smaller aircraft on many routes and its becoming virtually impossible to cash in your miles on popular routes

That is a good thing, not a bad thing. I am more than happy to see the days of people who otherwise couldnt afford a ticket show up with their bags of food, flip flops, Starbucks, and bubble gum popping. One of the best things that happened were the airlines getting stricter with cashing in miles for free trips. British Airways Executive Club and Singapore Airlnes KrisFlyer are only the beginning of more airlines to stop rewarding people who buy el-cheapo tickets and expect, if not demand freebies everytime they arrive at the airport. Why should any airline upgrade or offer a free trip to some shmuck that bought $2500.00 in groceries, or bought a car with a credit card they cant afford to pay?
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting N770WD (Reply 18):
MalpensaSFO -- can you share your reference for the $5,700 average ticket price? Published government data (DOT Schedule P-11) shows Eos averaged $1,260 per round-trip passenger during the last reporting period. Since that includes corporate trial seats, give-aways and such it's not bad for a new entrant but it's nowhere near the $5,700 you state. It's possible they improved five-fold in a couple of months but not likely.

Please see below:

Departure Time Arrival Time Flight #

New York (JFK)
8:15 pm
Fri, 18 Aug 06
London (STN)
8:30 am **
Sat, 19 Aug 06 E0 2 C
(757-200)
7hr 15min

London (STN)
4:00 pm
Sun, 20 Aug 06
New York (JFK)
6:45 pm
Sun, 20 Aug 06 E0 3 Z
(757-200)
7hr 45min

Fare Details
Per Person Price: $5,000.00 USD
Taxes: $101.64 USD
Subtotal: $5,101.64 USD
Total (1 Traveler): $5,101.64 USD
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
ANNOYEDFA
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:23 am

If only EOS treated their crew members well....... I know quite a few who have already quit because they didn't want to put up with the bulls*it going on there.
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
afay1
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:39 am

MalpensaSFO, your logic is flawed. While you may personally not like it when people use FF miles to get tickets, the fact remains that the airlines themselves offerred this system and this system has kept many of them afloat for a long time. Who are you to look down on people for earning something the airline has given them the right to earn? It isn't cheating or some devious way of getting tickets, all the rules are black and white. Is it my fault airline X or airline Y offers a certain ticket price? Maybe you can afford to buy full fare F tickets; if you can, by all means go ahead and be snooty about it...nobody is forcing you to fly and nobody is forcing the airlines to do business the way that they do, they are welcome to close their doors anytime if they don't like the sort of passengers they themselves attract. Maybe you would like to sit separately from people of other races who can't "afford" a ticket either and somehow pyramid schemed their way onto the plane?
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 23):
If only EOS treated their crew members well....... I know quite a few who have already quit because they didn't want to put up with the bulls*it going on there.

That is a complete lie. To this date not one single EOS F/A has resigned or been terminated.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:12 am

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 24):
MalpensaSFO, your logic is flawed. While you may personally not like it when people use FF miles to get tickets, the fact remains that the airlines themselves offerred this system and this system has kept many of them afloat for a long time. Who are you to look down on people for earning something the airline has given them the right to earn? It isn't cheating or some devious way of getting tickets, all the rules are black and white. Is it my fault airline X or airline Y offers a certain ticket price? Maybe you can afford to buy full fare F tickets; if you can, by all means go ahead and be snooty about it...nobody is forcing you to fly and nobody is forcing the airlines to do business the way that they do, they are welcome to close their doors anytime if they don't like the sort of passengers they themselves attract. Maybe you would like to sit separately from people of other races who can't "afford" a ticket either and somehow pyramid schemed their way onto the plane?

Certain airlines are designed for different needs. Thankfully we are seeing airlines, retract from the trend of buy one fly one. The future of the airlines is not with free upgrades, but with reshaping to an ever changing market place. You are seeing rules for upgrades and award travel decrease and the restrictions on free travel expand over time. This is needed to improve efficiency and the bottom line of an airlines profit.

People who buy full Y class tickets by right should earn a higher level, or premium mileage in comparisson with those who buy the $179.00 specials. There was nothing in my statement that was snotty it was a point of view that is shared by a great many people. Furthermore, if you would notice airlines like SQ, BA, and QF reward those who pay the premium fares.

The airlines are well aware they dont make money on free seats or the people who fly once and always have a hand out when upgrades are available. Airlines should rightfully charge for reward tickets. There has to be some income other than that of the $179.00 seat that earns a free one. The reason that upgrades exist in the U.S. for free is insane. Those people who moan and groan at the gate "But I fly 20 times a year", "But I am tall", "But I am this", "But I am that", are finding that the free ride is finally over.

One of the best things that airlines have done is start to charge for membership in their frequent flier programmes. This is an act that really weeds out the fliers and the wannabes. I cant tell you how much money airlines expend on printing cards, flyers, email programmes for all of those travellers that sign up to have yet another card in the stack of others.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
afay1
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:27 am

But it if it is such a problem as you say, then it is most certainly one of the airlines' own making. Of course there are always people who try and get more than they deserve, but the point is that the airlines created themselves a situation where cheap tickets are both pervasive and earn miles. For instance, I just returned on a multi-leg transatlantic reward trip in F class, for which I used 100k miles. It took several years of flying Y, having a specific airline credit card, and taking advantage of the airlines' own promotions. Probably the airline got more out of me over the years of loyalty, despite my always using discount fares if possible, than I did out of one measly roundtrip in an empty (and aging) F class cabin. The airline created the expectation of being able to use my miles, and since I was able to indeed, I have no complaints in that regard. I don't understand why this system is somehow dumbing-down air travel. SQ and QF (but hardly BA) have far better Y products than most of their competitors on similar routes, so can afford to try and attract higher-yield passengers as is their wont. QF and SQ have their own special geography to deal with anyway. Airlines have no right to complain about the ticket prices they themselves offer. If they are unsustainable, then simply quit the business or stop offering them. Besides, urban legend aside, how many truly free upgrades are given out anyway, out of the blue, to flip-flop wearing, bubble-gum chewing, wife-beater clad rednecks? Not so many as you seem to suggest I would imagine...
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:34 am

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 27):
But it if it is such a problem as you say, then it is most certainly one of the airlines' own making.

It is a problem, and it is what the airlines have created. Airlines are now realizing that offer reward tickets to everyone is not making money. The money is in the P/F, J/C cabins. If you notice airlines are falling over themselves to upgrade their Premium cabins while Economay takes a backseat to any and everything. The Premium cabins are the blood for the airlines. The Y cabin serves a purpose as well. That purpose is filler.

The Premium cabins are what the airlines want and yurn so much for. Whay do you think VS, BA, EK, QF, EO, and SQ invest so much money into the Premium cabins? It is to attract the top dollar. This can be made and more evident with United Airlines Premium Service where the emphasis is on revenue, not on number of pax that can be crammed into 31' seats in Y class.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
jaysit
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RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 21):
That is a good thing, not a bad thing. I am more than happy to see the days of people who otherwise couldnt afford a ticket show up with their bags of food, flip flops, Starbucks, and bubble gum popping. One of the best things that happened were the airlines getting stricter with cashing in miles for free trips. British Airways Executive Club and Singapore Airlnes KrisFlyer are only the beginning of more airlines to stop rewarding people who buy el-cheapo tickets and expect, if not demand freebies everytime they arrive at the airport. Why should any airline upgrade or offer a free trip to some shmuck that bought $2500.00 in groceries, or bought a car with a credit card they cant afford to pay?

What the hell are you babbling about?

Who the hell demands freebies when they check in at the airport?

You get an upgrade if you have the requisite number of miles available for the upgrade in question. If you have the requisite number of miles, its none of your business how the passenger obtained those miles - whether he/she took 10 trips in coach or bought a Beemer with it. The airline contracted with the Credit Card company for that perquisite available to the passenger, and they are lawfully required to adhere to the terms of the contract. Airlines contract with credit card companies in order to build customer loyalty and increase their customer base. If they can't make good on a contract, they shouldn't enter into it. Once they do, they should make good on it, or face the music.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 26):
Airlines should rightfully charge for reward tickets. There has to be some income other than that of the $179.00 seat that earns a free one.

Huh? A cheapo $ 179 ticket gives you 179 miles. A full fare Y class ticket at $ 550 gives you 550 miles. If you want to earn 100,000 miles, you make more flights at $ 179, less on those full fare tickets.

Maybe you don't get math. By the looks of your posts on here, you don't seem to get a whole lot.

And, btw, your post (# 22) about the EOS fares is rubbish too. I just got a fare for $ 1450 each way on EOS. In fact, I got it right from their website. For that price, I thought I'd try them out.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
CRGsFuture
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:04 pm

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting Jaysit:
And, btw, your post (# 22) about the EOS fares is rubbish too. I just got a fare for $ 1450 each way on EOS. In fact, I got it right from their website. For that price, I thought I'd try them out.

Yes, especially if you book very far in advanced.

Here's a good question, how many airlines have credit cards?
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 29):
Huh? A cheapo $ 179 ticket gives you 179 miles. A full fare Y class ticket at $ 550 gives you 550 miles. If you want to earn 100,000 miles, you make more flights at $ 179, less on those full fare tickets.

uh...huh? While I have no idea what the hell MalpensaSFO is talking about with the "$179 seat that earns a free one", I'm not entirely clear what you're talking about either.

Using AA as an example, I'll get the same miles in coach whether it's a "Y" fare or a discounted ticket. Here's the chart. There's a business/First class bonus, but no bonuses for fare categories within coach, although on international flights there are a couple of "deep-discount" fare categories that earn no miles. AFAIK all US airlines use this model.

The only difference between the $179 ticket and the $550 ticket is the number of miles you'll earn if you use the airline's credit card.

Now whether or not this should be the case is open to debate.
 
ehho
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:26 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:14 pm

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 31):
but no bonuses for fare categories within coach, although on international flights there are a couple of "deep-discount" fare categories that earn no miles. AFAIK all US airlines use this model.

And that's exactly why I love AA and UA!! You get your miles, even for extremely cheap Expedia fares (whaddaya think of ORD-SFO-ORD $179 with taxes?). They even give you miles for international segments with BA where BA themself wouldn't give you any. I always use my AAdvantage card when flying BA in Europe for V fares, for which BA wouldn't even allow me to become a Club member.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5188
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:54 pm

The idiot author suffered a SINGLE delay and wrote a whole article to trash the company. I'm sure that BA never suffers delays and keeps hot spares available just to fly his spoiled behind around on-time, all the time. Typical jerk passenger, except this guy has the ability to throw his hissy fit all over the pages of a newspaper. If only they'd limo'd him to his beloved Heathrow.
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 6):
And EOS Airlines is rumored to add Paris in mid 2007, followed by Frankfurt and Amsterdam.

I assume you mean from JFK. Can a B757 fly JFK-FRA? Or are they planning to get another type to fly this route?

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
iflymax
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:30 pm

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:41 pm

The ariticle has now been almost completely revised - still critical, but the factual issues have been addressed. But some quick notes:

1. The author was on a free ticket provided by a public relations company, for whom she was doing freelance work (i.e., an entity other than the Times) when she posted this article from MAXjet's lounge. This entity is apparently not happy with the authors work, nor with the author herself.

2. The author did call the CEO, but did not initially represent herself as a reporter - consequently taking his comments completely out of context.

3. The author overstated a number of elements in her story - including the tale of passengers supposedly grabbing their bags and leaving the airport in disgust. Not a single passenger was lost from this rotation - while they weren't pleased by the delay, there was surprisingly little grumbling.

4. MAXjet provided Hotel Rooms for those through passengers affected by the delay, as well as significant forms of additional compensation. Furthermore, any passengers who required rebooking on the next mornings IAD departures were taken care of at MAXjet's expense.

5. The author behaved in an extremely disingenous way - i.e. profusely thanking the MAXjet personnel and station manager for their "hospitality" during the delay, only to submit a scathing and largely hypocritical article.

6. Given that the only EOS departure was to NY JFK, and the last connection to IAD leaves Terminal 7 JFK at @ 8PM (with the EOS arrival sometime after 9PM) it was not seriously considered as an option.

And just to be petty back....

7. Those in the know who read the article particularly enjoyed her repeated references to "BA Club World" along with the glass of Wine and the "Times in hand." (Which have now been removed...)

8. DC is not exactly known for "jazz bars." Come to think of it - there really is only one. (Blues Alley. Georgetown.)

9. As much as they would like to, MAXjet cannot apologize on behalf of the runway for "mocking her" with every other departure.

All of which would probably explain why the article just changed significantly in nature.....

[Edited 2006-07-18 15:46:07]

[Edited 2006-07-18 15:46:30]
 
ANNOYEDFA
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:16 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:56 pm

Flight Attendant

Former Tower Air, Former Delta, former EOS......Stay away from EOS!!! Worst Airline in the world!

Aol screename: shellon747

MalpensaSFO is a big old flapper........ If none of you have noticed by now, his name changes as often as he changes his wadded up panties. As for the article I think personally it should be retracted one for not allowing herself to be know as a reporter and two for not reporting every single other delay like this that which has occured on every single airline in the world. I said it once and I'll say it again if you can't handle the down side of air travel shut your damn mouth and find other means of traveling across the pond.
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
Ruirui
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:15 pm

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:16 am

Do you think the guy who wrote the Times article on Maxjet is the same guy that writes those totally "honest" forum letters on that most unbiased of sites - Skytrax. That knife grinding prose has a certain ring about it in my opinion.

I still believe that a good flight depends on many factors, not just food, and punctuality or the wine list etc etc.....it depends more on ones own mood that day, and basically whether you get a good crew or a bad crew..a smile or a gesture at the right time - can melt away all the built up frustration and anger others caused - either at check in - in the lounge or even by the "so called" loved ones you left behind that morning"
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:18 am

"Business travellers, it seems, know the difference between concept and reality"

This, for me, is the most important line in the entire article. My problem with Maxjet is that they tout an "international all business class service", and what you actually get is more comparable to a premium economy service than any international business class I've flown on. They really ought to rethink who they are targeting and how they market their product. Either that or buck up their ideas and offer a product that can compete with their competitors.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 36):
Former Tower Air, Former Delta, former EOS......Stay away from EOS!!! Worst Airline in the world!

Please let us know who your In-Flight Supervisor was at Eos..

Please let us know your seniority number at Eos..

Please let us know why you insist on saying you worked for Eos when you have been caught in a lie?

The fact that you were employed by Tower Air speaks volumes.. volumes..

Quoting SNATH (Reply 34):
I assume you mean from JFK. Can a B757 fly JFK-FRA? Or are they planning to get another type to fly this route?

The 757 flies no problem EWR-TXL, EWR-LIM, EWR-ARN.. FRA is within reach, certainly with a load of only 48 pax, 6 F/A, and 2 Cockpit..

Quoting EHHO (Reply 32):
I always use my AAdvantage card when flying BA in Europe for V fares, for which BA wouldn't even allow me to become a Club member.

When was the last BA was in the shape of Delta, NWA, UAL, US Air, Aloha, and more. You give everything away, you will have nothing in return.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 29):
Who the hell demands freebies when they check in at the airport?

Stand at any airport in the U.S. especially those which claim UA, NW, AA, DL to be home. They stand there like dogs waiting for food. Upgrades are going by the way side, and rightfully so. It is time the airlines got back to profit and stopped giving everything away. So sorry, but for many they will have to pay to sit in front. Can someone tell me why they want to use miles to sit in front in the U.S. The meals on domestic flights in F/J cabins are pathetic at best, the seating is hit and miss, and half the time the F/J cabins are employee lounges..
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
Condor24
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:08 pm

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:38 am

Two old chinese proverbs come to mind ...

Firstly, 'You get what you pay for' &

Secondly, 'You pays your money, you takes your choice'.
'Condor, the span to fly'
 
Ruirui
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:15 pm

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:42 am

I will not deny you make some valid points, although you make some which frankly make me climb the wall, so I, for one - would like to know whose axe you are grinding?

Furthermore - where does you vote go for best business class. Perhaps we should all bow to your superior knowledge

Vi ringrazio (Thank you)
 
coa747
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:11 pm

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:43 am

I'll second the claim that frequent flyer awards have become less than worthless. Chase, American Express and others offer programs where reward points can be redeemed on any airline but try to redeem them and see what happens. My parents recently tried to use them to purchase two business class tickets to Santiago Chile and the Amex agent told them sure you can do that it will only cost you 1,500,000 points! This was after they tried to redeem their AAdvantage miles but were told by American there were no more reward seats available. That is probably because they only reserved one or two seats on the entire plane for reward tickets. The frequent flyer situation has become a joke. It is the airlines fault though, as they were the ones that decided to sell miles to car rental companies and credit cards and now over 50% of the miles earned are done so without their customers ever stepping foot on an airplane.
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting Ruirui (Reply 41):
Furthermore - where does you vote go for best business class

Singapore Airlines Raffles Class onboard 747-400 Upper Deck

Lufthansa German Airlines Business Class onboard A340-600

It is all a matter of opinion.. Everyone has their own idea of what is best, and what works for them.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
Ruirui
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:15 pm

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:38 am

Well . I agree with Malpensa concerning LH Business Class on A340-600. damn I spent US$15 to flame you.....and now I agree. The food needs some attention but at discounted fares there is no one to touch them apart from ANA - in my opinion. I think Malpensa was overharsh re Maxjet...when prices are compared ...but I would still choose LH over them all...at the present time. But all flights are as good as your last crew and experience.

My apologies MXP.....you are not as daft as I first thought!
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Ruirui (Reply 44):
My apologies MXP.....you are not as daft as I first thought!

LOL...

I am the big bad guy on the forum...

 sarcastic 

Quoting Ruirui (Reply 44):
The food needs some attention but at discounted fares there is no one to touch them apart from ANA - in my opinion.

Funny, I scored 2 free roundtrip tickets to anywhere in the NH system in their newly updated J product. An incentive from my place of employment. I am looking forward to it. I have flown NH Business Class in the past, but sad to say it was in the days of the 742 from LAX-NRT.. Yes, a longtime ago..
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
ANNOYEDFA
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:16 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:54 am

Your so stupid lol........ Reread the post SHE worked for EOS. I personally would not be dumb enough to work for a none union, 48 seat start up that flies to STN. Please LOL............
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 46):
Your so stupid lol........ Reread the post SHE worked for EOS. I personally would not be dumb enough to work for a none union, 48 seat start up that flies to STN. Please LOL............

When did you ever say the word "she"?

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 36):
Flight Attendant

Former Tower Air, Former Delta, former EOS......Stay away from EOS!!! Worst Airline in the world!



Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 23):
If only EOS treated their crew members well....... I know quite a few who have already quit because they didn't want to put up with the bulls*it going on there

Does anyone on here see the word "she" in any of AnnoyedFA's comments?

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 46):
I personally would not be dumb enough to work for a none union,

Is that because non-union employees have to work?  wink 
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
coa747
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:11 pm

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 46):
Your so stupid lol........ Reread the post SHE worked for EOS. I personally would not be dumb enough to work for a none union, 48 seat start up that flies to STN. Please LOL............

Sure working for a startup is a risk but these days it isn't much more of a risk than working for one of the legacy carriers like Northwest. Unions are sometimes part of the problem not the solution. Look at Eastern the machinist union single handeldly brought the airline to its knees. If you aren't willing to take risks in life it isn't worth it. EOS is starting out like Southwest did many years ago. No one gave them a chance and now they rule the show. I'm not saying EOS will do the same but you have to admire people willing to take the risk. Virgin Atlantic started up with a similar business model and they made it work. Peopel will pay for excellent service. I think there are a lot of people that are tired of being faceless names in a crowd when they travel. Unless you fly a million + miles the majors don't give a crap about you. Obviously EOS has a different philosophy and it seems to be paying off for them.
 
Eos757
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:45 am

RE: Harsh Article On Maxjet And Their CEO

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:47 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
To this date not one single EOS F/A has resigned or been terminated.

This is incorrect. Completely untrue. I know what I am talking about, 100%.

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 36):
Flight Attendant

Former Tower Air, Former Delta, former EOS......Stay away from EOS!!! Worst Airline in the world!

Aol screename: shellon747

Who is "she"? Did "she" make a post on this thread? In "real life" I know who this person is. But I cannot make the connection to what has been written here.

***Disclaimer: I work for Eos.***

Look, as far as this particular Maxjet flight is concerned: It happens! MX or WX or whatever....Sometimes companies cannot deliver. Big companies, little companies. I think Maxjet got a raw deal on this write-up.

I genuinely believe in Eos. I believe in our airline, our product, our service, and our people. I have been in aviation almost 20 years. I'm not naive and I don't drink Kool-Aid! I have worked in union and non-union situations. Start-ups and not. Big airlines and little airlines. It's all a gamble.

But I think we (Eos) are really poised for success! As for Maxjet, I can't say. They are very different from Eos. Different employees, creating a different product, for a different target audience. From what I gather, they are good at what they do and they have good people.

I KNOW Eos is good at what we do, and I KNOW we have good people! I used to think there was room for both airlines, since we are so different. But now I am not so sure. We will see.

The next 3-6 months and beyond will be critical (Not to state the obvious). Good luck and best wishes to all my flying colleagues out there.

 Smile