BOE773
Topic Author
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:02 am

Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:35 am

Date: July 2006.
Source: ATW.

Air France-KLM 1,112,227
FedEx 963,858
Singapore Airlines 784,641
British Air 765,946
Emirates761,400.

Note how fast Emirates are moving up.
 
fly727
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
FedEx 963,858

Cargo doesn't eat, complain, sits quietly and always pay full fare. The greatest deal in aviation.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
tcxdegsy
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:47 am

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
Date: July 2006.
Source: ATW.

Air France-KLM 1,112,227
FedEx 963,858
Singapore Airlines 784,641
British Air 765,946
Emirates761,400.

Note how fast Emirates are moving up.

Forgive me, but what currency are these figures in??
next flights: BA1441 0566 0581 1446 EDI-LHR-MXP-LHR-EDI
 
n844aa
Posts: 1266
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:38 am

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:29 am

This thread made me nostalgic for the late '90s, so I went to go look up some of AMR's old annual reports. Man, those guys were printing money back then. With fuel prices being what they are, I'm not sure when -- or if -- they'll get back to billion-dollar profits, but at least they have the rest of their costs under control.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
BOE773
Topic Author
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:02 am

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:33 am

Currency in US dollars.
 
pavlin
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:34 am

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:41 am

Air France-KLM as one airline. But still nice profit
Singapore airlines also, why is there not Lufthansa.
Normal airlines should make loses wright now, it is just the way it is
 
BOE773
Topic Author
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:02 am

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:14 am

Lufthansa at #8, net profit of 536,555 USD.
 
mindscape
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:28 pm

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
Air France-KLM 1,112,227

Is it possible to have the breakdown between AF and KL ?
Thank you
 
aussie747
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:15 pm

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:09 pm

is that before or after tax? As that affects the outcome for some airlines noticably
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:05 pm

To really rank profitability and mask differences in tax, depreciating and accounting rules, the best way is to calculate the margin calculated on gross turnover and pretax profits before abnormals.

That pushes everyone into a similar situation, where net margins pull in local factors.

And use a common currency.

I'm not even going to bother trying, since on a global scale, you get too many qualifications and the comparison is largely symbolic or pointless at a personal investor level.

And of course some of the more profitable players on that basis will be freight lines and the likes of Ryanair, and good on them too.
 
D L X
Posts: 11663
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 4):
Currency in US dollars.

Funny... no US airlines.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):

Funny... no US airlines.

more like a sad state of affairs.. Sad
"Up the Irons!"
 
BOE773
Topic Author
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:02 am

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 7):

Sorry, no break-down between AF/KL with regards to net profit.
Both are considered to be one company.
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Funny... no US airlines.

No surprise there then?

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
Air France-KLM 1,112,227
FedEx 963,858
Singapore Airlines 784,641
British Air 765,946
Emirates761,400.

So you are telling me the most profitable airlines made ~ US$1m for the whole of 2005? It's complete BS there -

  • Air France KLM GROUP - GROSS E1455m - NET E913m - 2.5% return on equity - MARGIN 4.4%
  • SIA GROUP - GROSS S$1662m - NET S$1240m - 9.6% return on equity
  • BAW GROUP - GROSS £620m - NET £451m - 7.1% return on equity - MARGIN 8.3%
  • UAE OPS - GROSS AED2,649m - NET AED2475m - 11.5% return on equity
  • FedEx has more business than flying aeroplanes so shouldn't even be on the list

    And one major force you missed (2005 pre Dragonair takeover)
  • CPA GROUP - GROSS HK$3968m - NET HK$3298m - 9.4% return on equity - MARGIN 7.4%

    Annual Reports
    AFR KLM SIA UAE BAW CPA
  • A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
     
    kaitak744
    Posts: 2089
    Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:45 pm

    By the way, notice on a side note that all the highly profitable airlines now days (besides FedEx which should not be on this list) all are major fliers of the 777. Looks like the aircraft which Airbus describes as being too expensive to buy is making good returns.
     
    klmcedric
    Posts: 696
    Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:19 pm

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:16 pm

    Quoting Mindscape (Reply 7):
    Is it possible to have the breakdown between AF and KL ?
    Thank you

    We as employees got the separate numbers not to long ago. I do not have
    the exact numbers right now but I remember that out of the net 913M Euro
    profit KLM made 500+ millions and AF 400+ millions. Considering the individual
    size of the two companies I think it's fair to say KLM is doing an exceptional
    job here!!!
     
    Pihero
    Posts: 4206
    Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:48 pm

    Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 15):
    Considering the individual
    size of the two companies I think it's fair to say KLM is doing an exceptional
    job here!!!

    Sorry, but you can't use these computations that way. The KLM part of the airline is making a lot of money mainly because of the group effect in terms of network, procurements...
    By the same token, AF's margin seems low compared to BA's, for instance. It is due to the network system on which the European feeder flights have a tarification program that is meant to just break even . The money comes mostly from the long range flights.( BA has just about given up on Europe).
    That said, your performance is a credit to your dedication.
    Contrail designer
     
    cloudyapple
    Posts: 1261
    Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:18 pm

    Quoting Pihero (Reply 16):
    That said, your performance is a credit to your dedication.

    Sounds like the french boss talking to the dutch worker~
    A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
     
    GBOAC
    Posts: 213
    Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:48 pm

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:03 pm

    Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
    British Air 765,946

    There's no such airline of which I am aware. I am aware of the profitable British Airways, though...
     
    nycflyer
    Posts: 1288
    Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:23 am

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:07 pm

    Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 13):
    So you are telling me the most profitable airlines made ~ US$1m for the whole of 2005? It's complete BS there -

    I am sure the figures are in thousands ('000s)
     
    Pihero
    Posts: 4206
    Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:16 pm

    Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 17):
    Sounds like the french boss talking to the dutch worker~

    No. Respect for what colleagues have achieved.And, because I work with them, I should know.
    What a lot of A.netters, especially the other side of the Manche fail to understand is how much the two operations have been integrated without any component having the right to say they.ve been cheated by the new network system. If anything, the KLM people seem to be more optimistic than the AF ground staff, probably because working in CDG at the moment is very hard. AMS has a very smooth operation, compared.
    Do I smell some sour grapes here in your comment ?
    Contrail designer
     
    sk601
    Posts: 896
    Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:21 pm

    Quoting Pihero (Reply 20):
    AMS has a very smooth operation

     rotfl   rotfl   eyepopping   faint   eek   embarrassed   covereyes   confused 

     cool 

    Quoting Pihero (Reply 20):
    compared.

    Yes, in that case you might be right.
     
    cornish
    Posts: 7651
    Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:21 pm

    Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 14):
    By the way, notice on a side note that all the highly profitable airlines now days (besides FedEx which should not be on this list) all are major fliers of the 777. Looks like the aircraft which Airbus describes as being too expensive to buy is making good returns.

    And 3 of the 5 have A340 fleets too.....

    Actually using your logic it should be pointed out that the Top 2 airline groupings have sizeable fleets of MD-11s - perhaps more airlines should have seen the value of these  Smile

    I think you'll find that its not their aircraft choices that are the reason these airlines are at the top of the profitability rankings right now....

    For the record, other notable 777 operators include: UA, DL, AA, CO, OS, MH, RG......  Wink
    Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
     
    vv701
    Posts: 5780
    Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:20 pm

    Quoting Pihero (Reply 16):
    BA has just about given up on Europe

    In their annual report BA Chairman, Peter Broughton said - see link at bottom of Reply 13 and go to page 5):

    Another highlight is that our shorthaul business is back in the black for the first time in ten years but there is still much work to be done.

    So which is it? Have they 'just about given up on Europe' or is there 'still much work to be done' on their shorthaul business?
     
    Pihero
    Posts: 4206
    Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:36 pm

    Quoting VV701 (Reply 23):
    So which is it? Have they 'just about given up on Europe' or is there 'still much work to be done' on their shorthaul business?

    In 2004, BA was the most profitable airline in the world, and that sums pretty much the BA management strategy : go for profit instead of growth.
    The quote from Broughton's report hides the fact that BA has lost more than 30% of short haul revenue in the last five years.
    On the long haul - and it has to be noted that BA, contrary to LH or AF/KL has a point to point structure, vs hub,-BA has lost 10 % of its revenues during which time LH increased theirs by 50 % and AF by 45 %.
    Please understand that I am not making a judgement of value, here, merely stating numbers and at the same time acknowledging the difficulty BA would have setting up a hub at LHR.
    One has also to remark that BA is the legacy airline the hardest hit by the LCC phenomenon.
    That BA is going all out on prime high end services is quite clever and probably the only winning strategy they have available.
    But it's quite risky as a further glance on BA revenue structure shows a whopping 70 % of business revenues realised on the North Atlantic, a sort of exposure which is unknown both at LH and AF/KL.
    Contrail designer
     
    richierich
    Posts: 3295
    Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

    RE: Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.

    Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:54 pm

    Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
    Funny... no US airlines.

    Isn't FedEx a US airline??  Smile

    I know what you mean though D L X. There are a few US passenger airlines making money but it is rare and there is not too money to be made.
    None shall pass!!!!

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