ORDTerminal1
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I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:05 am

Ok, just for example...Air France. Is it possible for an American who speaks French with a University Degree in Aviation Technology and has accrued the necessary amount of hours specified by Air France to achieve employment to fly?
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cxb744
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:10 am

Check out: http://devenirpiloteairfrance.com/

All in French.

Good Luck!
What is it? It's A 747-400, but that's not important right now.
 
A340600
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:14 am

Air France are a fantastic airline, my second favourite below BA. I love flying them and their crews are always friendly, professional and look very experienced. If I learn to speak French better when i'm older I may consider AF,

Sam Smile
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
LAXintl
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:16 am

Generally for a European company one must hold EU citizenship. As an American you dont have employement nor residency rights within the EU.

Air France in particular gets much of its pilots from ENAC the French national civil aviation university in Toulouse.
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A340600
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:18 am

Etre de nationalité d'un pays membre de l' Espace Economique Européen
ou de nationalité Suisse
et s'exprimer couramment dans la langue française.


You would need to get EU or Swiss residency,

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
saab2000
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:22 am

And when they say you need to speak French well, they mean really well. Not a little bit well. Not to say it is not worth trying, but having been an American who sort of made it into a European airline, I will tell you it is an uphill battle. But if this knuckledragger can do it then I guess you can too.

First thing you need to do is get residency in France or and EU country or Switzerland.

Good luck!

With all that said, I would go work for Air France immediately if I could.
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CRGsFuture
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:32 am

OK, here's a question where do EI, BA, and BD get their pilots from and as an American who speaks English (with such a proficiency I could be a voice over guy) can I fly for them?
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 6):
moi, je parle assez couramment

That would seem a little to Montreal for AF..  wink 
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
777-200
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:04 am

How's the pay for European airlines compainred to airlines in the states?
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saab2000
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:17 am

European airlines pay better but generally hire only from their own countries. Also, when I speak of European airlines I am speaking of the big, national carriers like AF, LH, BA, etc.

Those are good airlines to work for where you can really make a good career. Good pay, benefits, etc. Less fooling around with stupid logistics. They know how to run an operation.

But they are also very difficult to get into. You have to have residency in their country (or EU or Switzerland) and you have to pass an extremely selective screening process just to get into their school. Most of those airlines hire mostly from their own schools. And after you pass the selection you still have to pass the school - not a cakewalk. Then you may still not be assured of a job as you will still have to go before a hiring board.

But if you make it that far, your chances are pretty good.

I did not make it that far, but flew for Crossair with the hope of going to Swissair later. But that was not to be because Swissair folded and Crossair absorbed the operation of Swissair. Without going into the crap that happened there, suffice it to say that even getting into Crossair was not easy.

But it can be done. But there are a lot of obstacles that need to be overcome and the schools in Europe tend to be thorough and much tougher than in the US, with the possible exception of Embry-Riddle.

So there.  Big grin
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wrighbrothers
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 6):
here's a question where do EI, BA, and BD get their pilots from

Flying schools, mainly across England, however, they have been know to take pilots from America, so if you join the right school, then you have a chance.
But, you need the right to live and work in the United Kingdom, and Europe (I think) freely.

Wrighbrothers
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MCOflyer
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:37 am

Good luck young chap. Remember, anything is possible today.

MCOflyer
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Pihero
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:30 am

Air France recruits from four sources :
1/- ENAC, Ecole nationale de l'Aviation civile. To get in , one has to go through a competitive exam. It is just about impossible to succeed for a non-French student as the curriculum is very specialised (The need is at least two years of preparation classes called Math Sup (for advanced maths) and Math Spe (for special -ised maths) to have any chance of getting into the next step, which is flight selection in which your progress in a flight training sequence to a solo is judged.
2/- The Air Force. You have to be a french citizen.
3/- The AF cadet scheme. The requirements are two years of university, or the previously talked about Prep classes...the written ALTP is recommended. A very thorough screening process will then start, mainly based on psychological profile. Once you get into flight school, your progress will be constantly monitored by AF examiners... two years after joining the school,you'll then go to the process of first qual -the 320- and you should be tested for your "lacher", meaning line release after six months.
4/-Hiring with experience : If you're already flying professionally, an experience commensurate with your age will be considered. Most of the non-French presently flying with us come from this source, generally from established airlines Sabena, SAS, Alitalia, ....and now Easyjet...As some have noted, you again need residency.
It's a nice airline to work for : the network, even on the European division is quite extensive, the fleet is fairly young and the choice of planes rather nice (to chose between 330/340, 777, 744 is imo a rich man's dilemma.)
Working in France means job security (furloughing exists on another planet, not here !), probably the best medical care in the world, a good pension that is guaranteed by the state -to which you could add your own scheme-, and last but not least rather fast promotions at the moment : about eight years to command on the 320, another six to eight for a long haul left-hand seat and
these periods seem to be going down.
Hope this info helps. It's not easy but probably worth it. And remember that the most beautiful dreams are those that are fulfilled.

Regards
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bond007
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 6):
and as an American who speaks English (with such a proficiency I could be a voice over guy)

Have English people told you that?  Wink


Jimbo
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ORDTerminal1
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:40 am

Pihero,

Are you saying that if I took route number 4, by establishing myself with a well known airline for a few years, then gained French citizenship (all the while becoming proficient in French) I could be at least considered?

In addition, would I have to be based in France, or would I be given the option to remain in the U.S. (The only reason I ask is because I read somewhere that some pilots for United commute from Australia)

Oh and thank you to everyone for answering. You have all given me great information.

[Edited 2006-07-19 02:45:29]
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blueflyer
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 14):
Are you saying that if I took route number 4, by establishing myself with a well known airline for a few years, then gained French citizenship (all the while becoming proficient in French) I could be at least considered?

Citizenship from most, but not all, EU-member countries will do, French citizenship isn't necessary. If you really want to be an AF pilot, you can at least shop around for which qualifying citizenship is the easiest to gain, not a simple task in itself.

I think having an ATPL from an accredited school based in the same group of EU-member countries as those qualifying for citizenship is a requirement (doesn't have to be the same country as that of your citizenship though). Having several hours at another JAR 25 carrier will be an asset.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:32 am

Um, why do you want to fly for AF  Wink? Read their reviews on most sites. However, if you end up going for it ... good luck. VIVA YOU!

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
Pihero
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 14):
Are you saying that if I took route number 4, by establishing myself with a well known airline for a few years, then gained French citizenship (all the while becoming proficient in French) I could be at least considered?



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 15):
Citizenship from most, but not all, EU-member countries will do, French citizenship isn't necessary. If you really want to be an AF pilot, you can at least shop around for which qualifying citizenship is the easiest to gain, not a simple task in itself.

Yes, with the proviso provided by BlueFlyer. You would be considered if you are resident of the western part of the EU + Switzerland.
A recognised JAR licence is the requirement. US ATR will not be accepted.

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 14):
In addition, would I have to be based in France, or would I be given the option to remain in the U.S. (The only reason I ask is because I read somewhere that some pilots for United commute from Australia)

When you start, you'll be on the medium haul division. You'll have 12 days off a month, with mandatory periods of respectively five and two consecutive days.
There is no bidding system but a block preference. The result is it would be very difficult to live farther than ,say berlin or Madrid to Paris (the popular places are in Spain, Italy, Luxembourg...some even live in Sweden. It is quite possible because pilots have the benefit of what we call RNs which are zero fare-subject-to-load tickets for which you'll only pay taxes and jumpseats are available when flights are full.
Then after you've transferred to a long-haul division, living abroad becomes a viable solution as you're only rostered for three ,max four blocks a month. I know of people who live in Florida, in Montreal, even in Gabon.
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CRGsFuture
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers:
Flying schools, mainly across England, however, they have been know to take pilots from America, so if you join the right school, then you have a chance.
But, you need the right to live and work in the United Kingdom, and Europe (I think) freely.

Wrighbrothers

Ok, are there aviation collages in the UK and the Republic?

Quoting Bond007:
Have English people told you that?

No they said I could be a football (soccer) announcer. I even scared the hell out of one when I said "I like that Crystal Palace jersey." He was shocked I even knew that it was a suburb of London.
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ORDTerminal1
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:21 pm

Pardon my ignorance, but is the JAR similar to the FAA liscense? In addition, how would an American pilot gain one?
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raggi
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:53 pm

The JAA license is a lot harder than the FAA license. The ATPL theory is 14 exams, compared to one for the FAA.


raggi
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wrighbrothers
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 18):
Ok, are there aviation collages in the UK and the Republic?

The Republic ?, if you mean The Republic of Ireland, I'm not sure, but I know BA don't recruit from any Ireland flying school, BA infact only take pilots from 3 or 4 flying school world wide !, but yes, there are flying collages in England.
Just remember, don't expect to fly for BA, you might have to do with another job within BA or work for another airline, no flying school is dedicated to BA.

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
ORDTerminal1
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:35 am

and how would someone go about getting a JAR liscense?

Quote:
I even scared the hell out of one when I said "I like that Crystal Palace jersey." He was shocked I even knew that it was a suburb of London.

was he even more shocked when he found out wiggins was going to be benching it for half a year?

audere est facere.
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CRGsFuture
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting ORDTerminal1:
was he even more shocked when he found out wiggins was going to be benching it for half a year?

Haha yes.

Quoting Wrighbrothers:
Just remember, don't expect to fly for BA, you might have to do with another job within BA or work for another airline, no flying school is dedicated to BA.

Now, is this also true with BD? And where does EI get its pilots from?
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BA787
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:30 am

I have a question. For medical reasons I cannot obtain a JAR licence over here but I can in the US. Is it possible for me to train in the US then move over here, base myself at a US airline hub in the UK and then operate out of the UK for AA or CO

Tom
 
BA787
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 21):
no flying school is dedicated to BA.

There is one based in Greece I think that is dedicated to Thomsonfly, BA and GB Airways

Tom
 
BA787
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 25):

The company is Flight Training Europe: Jerez
Britannia Airways, British Airways and GB Airways
www.flighttrainingeurope.com
info@flighttrainingeurope.com

Tom
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting BA787:
I have a question. For medical reasons I cannot obtain a JAR licence over here but I can in the US. Is it possible for me to train in the US then move over here, base myself at a US airline hub in the UK and then operate out of the UK for AA or CO

Tom

It would only happen if you were a longhaul pilot as both almost all American airlines have gotten rid of European hubs. Due to the fact of your rotation schedule it would be very tough for you to live in one continent and fly to the other in time for your job, but it can be done.

I wish you all the best Tom.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
BA787
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 27):
I wish you all the best Tom.

Thank you. I hope its possible, I will live in the states until I become international and then ill try and do what ive said. My dream is to fly for BA but that is not to be. Hopefully the U.K. rules will align with the u.S. ones in the future, seeing as we seem to follow you in every other respect.

Tom
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 25):



Quoting BA787 (Reply 26):

Maybe, but BA aren't recruiting from there, GB-Airways might be, BA get the vast majority of their pilots from outside training schools, Oxford college is your best bet.
Unfortunatly, the chances of working for BA are very slim, as they do it on a need basis, i.e- when 1 pilot leaves/retiers, and there is a space that needs to be filied, they will get 1 pilot, and 1 pilot only, also, BA take the cream of pilots, the lower down the list ou are, the less a chance of working for BA, it's an unfair world we live in  Sad

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 23):
Now, is this also true with BD? And where does EI get its pilots from?

I really don't know, sorry

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:16 am

I don't think it's worth going through all that trouble. Flying is flying, there is no difference where you do it. Do you have a reason why you would want to fly AF? You are already living in one of the best countries in the world, why would you want to go to France? France might be great to people on the outside but if you actually LIVE there it's going to be very tough if you are not actually French. I'm sure the French can elaborate on that.

[Edited 2006-07-19 21:18:59]
 
A340600
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 30):
You are already living in one of the best countries in the world,

Very debatable Wink.

European pilots are better paid with better futures especially pension plan wise, it's a very smart move to fly for them over the US majors, though extremely tough coming from outside the EU and not speaking the language,

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
saab2000
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RE: I Want To Fly For Air France

Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 30):
I don't think it's worth going through all that trouble. Flying is flying, there is no difference where you do it. Do you have a reason why you would want to fly AF? You are already living in one of the best countries in the world, why would you want to go to France? France might be great to people on the outside but if you actually LIVE there it's going to be very tough if you are not actually French. I'm sure the French can elaborate on that.

HMmmmmmmm........ Really?

I lived in Europe and flew for a big airline there. Now I live in the US and fly for an airline there.

When I flew in Europe I worked less and got paid more. Got more vacation. The operation ran smoothly and people sitting at desks 10 meters apart were actually able to coordinate things with each other and with the flight crews. We had airplanes that almost never had items deferred by the MEL. I operated once without an APU. I operate without an APU at least once per month here in the US now.

The airplanes were clean there. The crews got crew meals and I got to lay over in places like Vienna, Amsterdam, London, Geneva, Rome, Milan, Stuttgart, etc. Here I have dirty airplanes with layovers in places like JAN, BGM, AVP, ERI.

One would think from this that I loved every minute of working in Europe and hated every minute here in the US. Not true. I actually do like working in the US sometimes. And there were times when working in Europe sucked. And ATC is probably better and more flexible in the US.

But to imply that working in Europe or in particular France is not a good option is naive. The US is not always the paradise some of its people would believe and Europe is far from the old time backwater some people would have us believe.

AirWillie,

you might even know which airline I now work for.....

[Edited 2006-07-19 22:25:44]
smrtrthnu

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