MAH4546
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AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:36 pm

American Airlines is ending service between Boston and Orlando. The daily 757 service ends on 13 December 2006, leaving Miami as the only Florida city AA serves from Boston, with six daily 757 flights.

In addition, despite the fact that AA loaded their 2007 summer European routes a month ago (JFK-FCO, ORD-GLA, etc.), BOS-MAN and BOS-CDG are nowhere to be seen. While April 2007 is still a good way away, European routes are almost always uplodaed immediately, because customers tend to book in high advance for European vacations, especially to places like Paris. The ending of BOS-CDG will not surprise me, the route has never been a stellar performer and the 763 is more welcome elsewhere, but I would be shocked to see BOS-MAN end. I just want to emphasis that the fact they are not bookable supports that they are being suspended (and, for the most part, confirms that they are being evaluated), but certainly does not confirm they are discontinued. Anybody know more?

[Edited 2006-07-18 05:38:38]
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NikonDFW
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:47 pm

With the exTW 757's leaving the fleet, there is going to be a lot of discontinued routes. A lot of point to points. With high capacity routes like DFW-MCO/LAS, which are currently served with the exTW 757's, AA will be moving AA 757's into these markets, which have to come from another route.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
American Airlines is ending service between Boston and Orlando. The daily 757 service ends on 13 December 2006, leaving Miami as the only Florida city AA serves from Boston, with six daily 757 flights.

MIA is the only city left? I thought FLL also had service.

IIRC, FLL, MCO and TPA all had multiple frequencies just a few years ago. It seems the only airlines left competing for the valuable BOS-Florida markets are DL and B6.

How the times change...

JetBluefan1
 
ejmmsu
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 2):
IIRC, FLL, MCO and TPA all had multiple frequencies just a few years ago. It seems the only airlines left competing for the valuable BOS-Florida markets are DL and B6.

With B6 and DL constantly duking it out in Northeast-Florida routes, maybe AA decided that this was simply not a fight worth fighting. Just not a whole lot of money to be made on routes like that.
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 2):
MIA is the only city left? I thought FLL also had service.

FLL-BOS ended April 2004.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 2):

IIRC, FLL, MCO and TPA all had multiple frequencies just a few years ago. It seems the only airlines left competing for the valuable BOS-Florida markets are DL and B6.

PBI had service too until last year.

Sad to see AA leave, but the market isn't profitable, so they might as well leave it to jetBlue and Delta. It is good to see them retreat for markets like BOS-MCO, although it may upset some loyal flyers.
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BALAX
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:05 pm

I doubt AA won't bring back BOS-MAN, look how long it took them to upload LAX-SJO and they are still showing MIA-MAN on their website, even though the flight will not operate. I woulnd't be shocked to see BOS-CDG go to a 757 , could be done easily, and it's not a horrid performer either. JFK-CDG gets 2x daily even in the winter, why? me no se.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:17 pm

I'd give it another week or two, I've noticed that AA has been uploading their schedule more in bits and pieces, unlike in the past when they used to do mass-uploads for an entire season at once.

I would venture to say, they are probably still working on their 763, and 757 ETOPS schedule for now.
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:22 pm

I would be absolutely shocked not to see BOS-MAN back. This flight has been everything AA has asked of it and then some. Loads have been stellar, although I have no idea about yields. To me, it has been everything the MIA-MAN route was not..

If AA can't make the 757 work on a BOS-MAN routing, they may as well forget about any future trans-atlantic endeavors involving the 757...
 
B752OS
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:24 pm

If it is true, AA canceling both MAN and CDG, this will be a bit of a surprise and a set back for BOS which is targeted to have its largest year ever in terms of passengers. Every year since 2001 BOS has seen solid gains not only in domestic passengers, but passenger numbers to Europe and the Middle East contrinue to climb. AF seems to have no problem making BOS work with year round daily service and sesonal double daily service, so why can't AA work with its seasonal service? The bad thing for BOS is that all of their international flights have to survive on O&D traffic, they don't have the benefit of for example MIA, which pulls a lot of traffic from other cities to fill their flights to Europe and other places like MSP, DTW, PIT, IAD, etc.

AA continues to cut BOS, I am surprised MCO is gone and I was surprised they did not bring back BOS-MSY.

I guess as long as they keep the 13 weekly flights to LHR and the SJU flights, BOS will be ok.


I just checked the AA website and it mentioned BOS-MCO under their seasonal flights. I know in the winter time they would run an MD-80 on the route and during the Spring and Summer a 752.

[Edited 2006-07-18 06:28:30]
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:30 pm

You got to remember AF has their hub on the other end of that BOS flight. That's a huge advantage with all those CDG spokes.
 
BALAX
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:32 pm

Let's not jump the gun here. Could simply be that AA schedules are not finalized yet. With the announcement of 2nd quarter results coming up, some good news might come with that as well.
 
tommy767
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:51 pm

AA has cut some service from MCO in the past few years as well. I flew JFK-MCO in 2003 on a 757 and that has since been cut. A few frequencies to LAX have been cut too. But BOS loosing their only daily flight is a surprise.

Tommy in EWR/LAX.
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:56 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
I'd give it another week or two, I've noticed that AA has been uploading their schedule more in bits and pieces, unlike in the past when they used to do mass-uploads for an entire season at once.

The thing is, it has more than a month since the other route were uploaded.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 8):
AF seems to have no problem making BOS work with year round daily service and sesonal double daily service, so why can't AA work with its seasonal service?

AF has a hub on the otherside.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 8):
f for example MIA, which pulls a lot of traffic from other cities to fill their flights to Europe

Really? Four out of every five AA passengers on MIA-MAD/CDG/LHR end or begin their trip in Miami. I'd love to know how many people you think are flying out of the way routings like SDF-LHR, RDU-CDG, and IND-MAD. And since South and Central Americans needs Visas to transfer in the US, AA has seen their connecting LatAm-Europe traffic cut significantly, and perfers to route LatAm-Europe passengers through Dallas, as it helps fill up the Dallas flights and frees up space at MIA/JFK for local passengers. Nearly 60% of AA's MIA passengers begin or end their trip in Miami, significantly high for a hub of its size.

Quoting BALAX (Reply 10):
Let's not jump the gun here. Could simply be that AA schedules are not finalized yet. With the announcement of 2nd quarter results coming up, some good news might come with that as well.

I agree, the schedule has definitley not been finalized, but the fact they have not been uplodaed does signify something. It pretty much signifies the routes are under review. It doesn't mean they have suspended, but AA is looking to see what to do. I wouldn't be surprised to see BOS-CDG cut. I would be surprised to see BOS-MAN cut.

[Edited 2006-07-18 08:59:26]
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BALAX
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:33 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
I wouldn't be surprised to see BOS-CDG cut. I would be surprised to see BOS-MAN cut

Wasn't AA thinking of suspending the CDG route a couple years ago and then uploaded a bit late into the season? But just like DFW-KIX is "supposedly" under review, it's still bookable throughout 2007. Tomorrow it could be gone. The next day it may be back. Does JFK-CDG justify 2 flights in the winter BTW? Is there enough premium demand?
 
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
I'd love to know how many people you think are flying out of the way routings like SDF-LHR, RDU-CDG, and IND-MAD.

I think RDU-CDG average about 175 daily pax.. or something similar to that per RDUAA...
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:10 pm

Quoting BALAX (Reply 13):
Wasn't AA thinking of suspending the CDG route a couple years ago and then uploaded a bit late into the season?

Yes, last year in fact, it was uploaded late, though it was bookable by mid-summer.

Quoting BALAX (Reply 13):
But just like DFW-KIX is "supposedly" under review, it's still bookable throughout 2007.

DFW-KIX is not a seasonal route.

Quoting BALAX (Reply 13):
Does JFK-CDG justify 2 flights in the winter BTW? Is there enough premium demand?

Yes. A handful of markets have good premium demand to Paris from the US - NYC (it's NYC), Washington (government traffic), Houston (oil traffic going to Africa), and Miami ("jet set" traffic between November and April).

JFK-CDG has always been a strong performer for AA year-round, along with Miami-Paris. Dallas-Paris does very well, but it requires it's very strong performance in the summer to offset the fact it performers weaker during the winter. Chicago-Paris is the weaker of those four, largely due to compeitition on the route and the fact that for some reason Chicago-Paris isn't as big a market as one would assume (and I really don't understand why. Even AF doesn't do so hot out of O'Hare).

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):

I think RDU-CDG average about 175 daily pax.. or something similar to that per RDUAA...

Including people connecting beyond in Paris, maybe. O&D? I doubt it is that high.

[Edited 2006-07-18 10:13:55]
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:13 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
Including people connecting beyond in Paris, maybe. O&D? I doubt it is that high.

It's O&D. It truely is around that figure, which isn't really high but good for a mid-tier airport, I guess. Frankfurt was around the 240 daily pax range. It was in a news article.. I could try to find it online if you would like.

***Correction***
It was high. Per Triangle Business Journal, on page 2.. Paris (the City of Lights) draws about 150 daily pax, while FRA draws about 270 daily pax. My bad..

[Edited 2006-07-18 10:17:18]
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:16 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 16):

It's O&D. It truely is around that figure, which isn't really high but good for a mid-tier airport, I guess. Frankfurt was around the 240 daily pax range. It was in a news article.. I could try to find it online if you would like.

There is this one article that says that a Paris flight could draw 150 people per day. It doesn't say that it the daily O&D:

http://triangle.bizjournals.com/tria...ries/2005/05/09/story3.html?page=2
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ERJ170
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:21 pm

Im sure it's the average if it say 150 people each way per day.. so would that be 300 pax if it states EACH way? weird wording..
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:28 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 18):
Im sure it's the average if it say 150 people each way per day.. so would that be 300 pax if it states EACH way? weird wording..

Yes, but that is how many people they could get on the plane. That includes people going beyond Paris, which is a huge European hub. Getting 300 people on a daily RDU-CDG flight is not entirely unplausable consdering probably 75% will be connceting.
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DFW13L
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:32 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):
I think RDU-CDG average about 175 daily pax.. or something similar to that per RDUAA...

Funny. In either the Dallas Morning News or Fort Worth Star Telegram (I forget which) a couple months ago they published the O/D traffic to international cities, as part of a story about the new International Terminal D at DFW. In there, I remember that DFW-CDG was about 75 a day. Now LGW and FRA were around 270ish (totally based off a foggy memory). I just thought the DFW CDG was low, and compared to RDU, DFW has less than half.

I wonder what the IAH CDG is, since they have CO and AF flights.
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flpuck6
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:02 pm

If I remember correctly (and if I read correctly, no one has mentioned it) the AA BOS-CDG route has become seasonal for the past 2 years operating only during the summer.

Perhaps the MAN flight is going seasonal as well ?
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mhodgson
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:50 pm

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 21):
Perhaps the MAN flight is going seasonal as well ?

It always has been - in winter it would 'swap' with the MIA flight.
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CentPIT
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):
think RDU-CDG average about 175 daily pax.. or something similar to that per RDUAA...

Well, then I have to know how many daily pax are traveling PIT-FRA and PIT-LGW.
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nateDAL
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 20):
Funny. In either the Dallas Morning News or Fort Worth Star Telegram (I forget which) a couple months ago they published the O/D traffic to international cities, as part of a story about the new International Terminal D at DFW. In there, I remember that DFW-CDG was about 75 a day. Now LGW and FRA were around 270ish (totally based off a foggy memory). I just thought the DFW CDG was low, and compared to RDU, DFW has less than half.



Quote:
THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS
May 18, 2006 Thursday
FIRST EDITION

SECTION: BUSINESS; Pg. 3D

LENGTH: 58 words

HEADLINE: TOP INTERNATIONAL MARKETS FOR D/FW

BODY:


Location Passengers

1. Cancún, Mexico 302

2. London 279

3. Toronto 231

4. Mexico City 207

5. Vancouver, British Columbia 114

6. Frankfurt 102

7. Montreal 88

8. Los Cabos, Mexico 75 9. Paris 74

10. Puerto Vallarta, Mexico 73

Passengers per day each way, excluding connecting passengers, for the year ended February 2006.

SOURCES: D/FW Airport; Sabre Consulting
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 16):
***Correction***
It was high. Per Triangle Business Journal, on page 2.. Paris (the City of Lights) draws about 150 daily pax, while FRA draws about 270 daily pax. My bad..

That says absolutely nothing about O&D figures. O&D on Raleigh-Paris is probably closer to 40 people per day. -Frankfurt is probably maybe a dozen more at most. It says how many people studies forecase will fly the route. It takes into account people who would make beyond connections at those hubs.
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B752OS
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Quoting B752OS (Reply 8):
f for example MIA, which pulls a lot of traffic from other cities to fill their flights to Europe

Really? Four out of every five AA passengers on MIA-MAD/CDG/LHR end or begin their trip in Miami. I'd love to know how many people you think are flying out of the way routings like SDF-LHR, RDU-CDG, and IND-MAD. And since South and Central Americans needs Visas to transfer in the US, AA has seen their connecting LatAm-Europe traffic cut significantly, and perfers to route LatAm-Europe passengers through Dallas, as it helps fill up the Dallas flights and frees up space at MIA/JFK for local passengers. Nearly 60% of AA's MIA passengers begin or end their trip in Miami, significantly high for a hub of its size.

I would call more than 40% a large amount of passengers. It was not an insult on MIA, it was a simple statement. MIA has the size operation it has in part due to connecting passengers. I am not saying that is the only reason, but it is almost half of it, per the stats you mentioned.

I should have worded my post different. By stating that MIA pulls passengers from places like MSP, DTW, IAD, etc, I meant it was to aid in filling their South American flights; not the ones to Europe. Before you jump on me about how large a market MIA is, it was simply to aid the flights, not completely fuel them.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
I agree, the schedule has definitley not been finalized, but the fact they have not been uplodaed does signify something. It pretty much signifies the routes are under review. It doesn't mean they have suspended, but AA is looking to see what to do. I wouldn't be surprised to see BOS-CDG cut. I would be surprised to see BOS-MAN cut.

While it is sad of the thought that AA may cut the BOS-CDG flight, word is that AF will be sending the 744 on the BOS-CDG route, a definate plus.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 26):

I should have worded my post different. By stating that MIA pulls passengers from places like MSP, DTW, IAD, etc, I meant it was to aid in filling their South American flights; not the ones to Europe. Before you jump on me about how large a market MIA is, it was simply to aid the flights, not completely fuel them.

It actually doesn't really help fill their LatAm flights to a huge extent, considering that many domestic flights arrive in the morning and most LatAm departures are late evening. If you look at the times of many flights, they don't time to connect. MSP does not connect to most LatAm flights. Neither does DTW. GSO doesn't either, nor Hartford, Columbus, Cleveland, etc., etc. The list goes on. AA times most of their domestic flights at MIA to connect with the Caribbean, which welcomes the added boost of connections. The major cities, of course, get LatAm connections, but when AA offers 1-2x daily service on a route from MIA, they try to maximize Caribbean connections. And other airlines that fly routes like MIA-MAR, MIA-UIO, and MIA-CLO have no feed on either end.

AA feeds as many LatAm connections as they can via Dallas (when it is an option). It is often overlooked, but the majority of AA's connecting traffic in Miami connects to/from the Caribbean. US-Latin America traffic is large, but significantly isolated to major cities like Miami, NYC, LA, DC, Orlando, Boston, etc. MIA has had a large Latin American network for ages, before the hub-and-spoke concept ever existed, the same way Boston has had an extensive European network for ages. If the AA hub wasn't there, AA would still be able to support the bulk of their LatAm operation at MIA. Caribbean flights would be the ones that suffer, outside of a few markets (namely KIN, SDQ, PAP, and POS).

The LatAm flights, depending on the destination, average as high has 85% local traffic. The Bolivia flights have the largest percentage of local traffic (85%+); Brazil flights have the lowest (around 50%, but that is 50% on five daily widebodies).

Quoting B752OS (Reply 26):
I would call more than 40% a large amount of passengers.

Okay, but it isn't.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 26):

While it is sad of the thought that AA may cut the BOS-CDG flight, word is that AF will be sending the 744 on the BOS-CDG route, a definate plus.

It will be a 744 this winter, but AF's 744 offers a less superior product right now.

[Edited 2006-07-19 02:01:40]
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BigGSFO
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:43 am

With the TWA 757's going away next year, does anyone forsee AA bringing back the MD80's to MIA? The reason being is that the 738's can easily replace the 757's on transcons and sending the Mad Dogs to MIA would alleviate some 738 flying (i.e. MIA-PHL, MIA-DTW, MIA-EWR, MIA-STL, etc).
 
B752OS
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
Okay, but it isn't.

You don't think that more than 40% is not a lot of people? More tha 2 out of 5 people is not a lot? How about you be exact, you say nearly 60% is O&D. Do you mean 58% 55% 54%? More than 40% is a large and significant percentage.



For example, you have AAs 767-300 which carries 212 passengers. An even 40% of that is 85 passengers(rounded up from 84.8). Which would mean that 127 of that 212 are O&D. That sure doesn't seem like a small amount.
 
Zone1
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:10 am

Could we see those TW 757s back in BOS parked at terminal E in DL colors?
/// U N I T E D
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 29):

You don't think that more than 40% is not a lot of people? More tha 2 out of 5 people is not a lot? How about you be exact, you say nearly 60% is O&D. Do you mean 58% 55% 54%? More than 40% is a large and significant percentage.

No, it is not. Especially considering that the average for a large hub is around 65% connecting. AA's MIA hub has one of the highest (if not the highest) percentages of local passengers of all major US hubs, and is one of a handful at above 50%.

You are basing your argument on the sole fact that "40%" is a large amount, entirely ignoring the fact that most hubs operate at less than 40% O&D.

[Edited 2006-07-19 03:46:36]
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 28):
With the TWA 757's going away next year, does anyone forsee AA bringing back the MD80's to MIA? The reason being is that the 738's can easily replace the 757's on transcons and sending the Mad Dogs to MIA would alleviate some 738 flying (i.e. MIA-PHL, MIA-DTW, MIA-EWR, MIA-STL, etc).

No. The 738s are based in Miami because they can easily rotate between domestic routes and South America/Caribbean runs. The MD80s can't, and the added costs of flying MD80s to MIA again would be very high.
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B752OS
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
No, it is not. Especially considering that the average for a large hub is around 65% connecting. AA's MIA hub has one of the highest (if not the highest) percentages of local passengers of all major US hubs, and is one of a handful at above 50%.

You are basing your argument on the sole fact that "40%" is a large amount, entirely ignoring the fact that most hubs operate at less than 40% O&D.

I never ignored the fact that most hubs operate at less than 40%, the percent of O&D at other hubs has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Bare in mind and read what was said; I was only talking about MIA and no one else. I was simply stating that I think that more than 40% is a large number; MIA could have the highest percentage of O&D passengers in the world, more than 40% still to me is a high number.

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 30):
Could we see those TW 757s back in BOS parked at terminal E in DL colors?

I highly doubt that, more like JFK or perhaps ATL.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:02 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 33):
I was simply stating that I think that more than 40% is a large number; MIA could have the highest percentage of O&D passengers in the world, more than 40% still to me is a high number.

That's fine. Then under that logic, where you are not associating numbers within context and instead only by raw value, $10 is nothing to someone in a third world country, because, to you, $10 is a small number.
a.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:28 pm

Well lets get the facts on the table regarding AA MIA.

Data is for the year of 2004 the source being Aviation Daily.

Hub Profile
Avg daily departures:126
Avg daily local enplanements:13495
Avg daily transfer passengers:7287
Avg yield: $11.32
Avg stage lenght: 1266
Hub load factor:70.7%


Top Domestics Nonstop markets by daily boardings and load factor
1.SJU 1220 77.8%
2.DFW 1162 73.1%
3.LGA 1007 72.6%
4.ORD 955 77.4%
5.JFK 892 73.1%
6.BOS 877 75.4%
7.LAX 780 76.2%
8.DCA 726 64.4%
9.MCO 511 70.9%
10.EWR 490 70.3%

Top Intl Nonstop markets by daily boardings and load factor
1.CCS 422 73.5%
2.SJO 387 72.7%
3.SDQ 369 60.9%
4.GRU 362 71.1%
5.NAS 356 59.0%
6.PAP 334 66.3%
7.EZE 281 81.9%
8.CUN 269 63.0%
9.MEX 267 59.6%
10.BOG 230 72.6%

Top MIA O&D markets daily one-way pax and yield
1.LGA 654 $12.74
2.SJU 481 $11.42
3.BOS 447 $9.96
4.JFK 438 $11.06
5.ORD 303 $12.45
6.LAX 291 $8.78
7.EWR 284 $11.25
8.DCA 248 $17.05
9.DFW 231 $14.37
10.SFO 163 $8.01
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
B752OS
Posts: 592
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RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 34):
That's fine. Then under that logic, where you are not associating numbers within context and instead only by raw value, $10 is nothing to someone in a third world country, because, to you, $10 is a small number.

That's a pretty poor example MAH. How can the value of money to one person be likened to the percentage of O&D passengers at one airport and how it stacks up against others? That of course is the context you are referring to. If you don't think 40-45 passengers out of 100 is a large amount, that's fine. I on the other hand do, as you know. So all I can say is agree to disagree.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 36):

That's a pretty poor example MAH. How can the value of money to one person be likened to the percentage of O&D passengers at one airport and how it stacks up against others? That of course is the context you are referring to.

It isn't a poor example, it is called an analogy. Very simple to follow actually, just use your logic. We'll just have to, like you said, agree to disagree.
a.
 
highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 21):
If I remember correctly (and if I read correctly, no one has mentioned it) the AA BOS-CDG route has become seasonal for the past 2 years operating only during the summer.

Correct. since no one has brought it up, i presume the 2x daily AA 777 BOS-LHR will continue to operate?

Also, since we are on the topic of AA and BOS, does anyone have an update regarding the thread linked below? its about a year old and we were discussing AA's fleet reduction in BOS.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2207911


highflyer
121
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 889
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 38):
Correct. since no one has brought it up, i presume the 2x daily AA 777 BOS-LHR will continue to operate?

I would think so...AA seems incredibly bullish on LHR service.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
B752OS
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:48 am

Laxintl, where did you get those facts; that's great. I am wodnering if you can find out info like that for other airports, I would love to see DFW and ORD.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2614
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 40):
Laxintl, where did you get those facts; that's great. I am wodnering if you can find out info like that for other airports, I would love to see DFW and ORD.

Me as well. Do you also have the info for airlines like Delta and United at their hubs?

Jeremy
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:46 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 40):
Laxintl, where did you get those facts; that's great. I am wodnering if you can find out info like that for other airports, I would love to see DFW and ORD



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 41):
Me as well. Do you also have the info for airlines like Delta and United at their hubs?

Data is available pretty much on every hub. Just requires lots of typing  Angry

Anyways here is AA DFW hub profile for 2005, and ORD for 2004.

Avg daily departures:598 (incl Eagle)
Avg daily local enplanements:44119
Avg daily transfer passengers:31580
Avg yield: $16.21
Avg stage lenght: 1027
Hub load factor:73.6%


Top Domestics Nonstop markets by daily boardings and load factor
1.LAX 2061 86.6%
2.ORD 1705 73.9%
3.LAS 1562 88.6%
4.MCO 1487 88.5%
5.SAT 1478 79.7%
6.AUS 1477 76.1%
7.LGA 1391 79.5%
8.MIA 1229 77.8%
9.SAN 1216 86.7%
10.DEN 1216 86.7%

Top Intl Nonstop markets by daily boardings and load factor
1.CUN 547 73.1%
2.MEX 515 72.5%
3.LGW 442 79.2%
4.NRT 343 81.2%
5.MTY 288 59.6%
6.YVR 281 67.8%
7.SJD 256 74.9%
8.YYZ 255 62.4%
9.PVR 213 71.0%
10.GDL 210 65.0%

Top DFW O&D markets daily one-way pax and yield
1.LGA 801 $16.11
2.ORD 735 $20.79
3.LAX 587 $12.64
4.LAS 568 $11.97
5.MCO 562 $11.27
6.ATL 507 $17.46
7.BWI 478 $11.02
8.BOS 462 $12.92
9.DCA 418 $16.14
10.DEN 403 $22.86


Chicago 2004

Hub Profile
Avg daily departures:448 incl AE
Avg daily local enplanements:17624
Avg daily transfer passengers:11516
Avg yield: $14.35
Avg stage lenght: 1031
Hub load factor:75.2%


Top Domestics Nonstop markets by daily boardings and load factor
1.DFW 1491 67.6%
2.LAX 1439 76.8%
3.LGA 1417 72.4%
4. MIA 1158 73.1%
5.STL 1001 72.1%
6.BOS 926 74.8%
7.SFO 691 72.5%
8.LAS 599 85.6%
9.DCA 594 74.1%
10.MCI 583 73.2%

Top Intl Nonstop markets by daily boardings and load factor
1.LHR 718 78.7%
2.YYZ 327 59.2%
3.YUL 221 56.5%
4.MAN 163 85.6%
5.NRT 156 77.4%
6.FRA 150 79.4%
7.BRU 142 75.7%
8.FRA 141 75.4%
9.CUN 139 74.3%
10.FCO 108 87.9%

Top ORD O&D markets daily one-way pax and yield
1.LGA 864 $24.23
2.DFW 582 $23.04
3.LAX 576 $9.35
4.BOS 392 $18.48
5.STL 381 $30.19
6.PHX 328 $7.97
7.LAS 307 $8.55
8.EWR 293 $21.58
9.MCI 288 $17.79
10.SFO 280 $8.91
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:26 pm

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:59 pm

And when you look at that, think in terms of stage lenth because distance really distorts the yields. So it's not easy to compare.
 
B752OS
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:13 pm

Thank you so much Laxintl, I really appreciate it. I am wonder where you found the data so I can look up even more airports. Thanks.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 44):
Thank you so much Laxintl, I really appreciate it

ditto.. checkmark ..

what's important is that those are 2004 numbers for ORD, and AA now has record load factors..so that is looking good.. Smile

While I'm not surprised about LHR, I'm surprised to see some of those other international numbers such as MAN, FRA up there (i.e. do well)..I didnt think those markets were that strong, especialy MAN, which has daily competition with BD and a 2x/weekly with PK.

that being said...they need to get YYZ/YUL up there though..bit weak...
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 45):

While I'm not surprised about LHR, I'm surprised to see some of those other international numbers such as MAN, FRA up there (i.e. do well)..I didnt think those markets were that strong, especialy MAN, which has daily competition with BD and a 2x/weekly with PK.

ORD-MAN makes up the trio of AA's most profitable trans-Atlantic routes, along with DFW-ZRH and MIA-LHR. (On a per-flight basis; obviously the JFK-LHR route, as a whole, bring in more profit).
a.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:01 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 44):
Thank you so much Laxintl, I really appreciate it. I am wonder where you found the data so I can look up even more airports. Thanks.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 45):
ditto.. ..

Thanks glad to participate. I'm sure the data can be dug up from reams of DOT stats. Instead I took a small portion of material Aviation Daily compiles and publishes regarding each airlines hub. Appropriate credit was given in my reply#35.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:06 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 46):
ORD-MAN makes up the trio of AA's most profitable trans-Atlantic routes

That is not surprising, MAN-ORD is the only flight I have been bumped off of as a non-rev. In fact, it has happened to me twice, and with a close to an 86% LF I can see why...
 
DFW13L
Posts: 809
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:22 pm

RE: AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:21 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 46):
ORD-MAN makes up the trio of AA's most profitable trans-Atlantic routes, along with DFW-ZRH and MIA-LHR. (On a per-flight basis; obviously the JFK-LHR route, as a whole, bring in more profit).

Just curious, if DFW-ZRH is so successful, and as a non-rev I've noticed that it is always full. Why wouldn't they put a 777 back on it like it was a few years ago? My guess on the answer would be...which 777 do you want to trade out, LGW or FRA?
See, I knew American Eagle was first class all along!

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