MAH4546
Topic Author
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El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:48 pm

El Al is considering ending all service to Toronto, citing the destination unprofitable. They would like to sign a cooperation agreement with Air Canada on the route. Article:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3276579,00.html

This would likely free up planes to increase MIA service and make O'Hare non-stop.
a.
 
Cory6188
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:52 pm

What would this do to their current LAX-YYZ-TLV service? Would LAX go nonstop (is that even feasible?), or would that end up getting the boot as well?

[Edited 2006-07-18 05:53:13]
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 1):
What would this do to their current LAX-YYZ-TLV service? Would LAX go nonstop (is that even feasible?), or would that end up getting the boot as well?

LAX-TLV becomes non-stop in two weeks. In the fall, however, O'Hare will stop in Toronto instead of Newark.
a.
 
ordryan28
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
LAX-TLV becomes non-stop in two weeks. In the fall, however, O'Hare will stop in Toronto instead of Newark.

What aircraft are they most likely going to send LAX-TLV? Also, if LY does cancel the TLV-YYZ route, would LY still route TLV-EWR-ORD-EWR-TLV route for a while, or would they make TLV-ORD nonstop immediately afterwards?? What aircraft would make this route...a 762??

-Ryan
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
MAH4546
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:47 pm

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 3):

What aircraft are they most likely going to send LAX-TLV? Also, if LY does cancel the TLV-YYZ route, would LY still route TLV-EWR-ORD-EWR-TLV route for a while, or would they make TLV-ORD nonstop immediately afterwards?? What aircraft would make this route...a 762??

LAX-TLV will be a 772.

ORD would either route through EWR or go non-stop. The 762s, which already fly MIA-TLV, can do ORD-TLV easily.
a.
 
N1120A
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:05 pm

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 3):
What aircraft are they most likely going to send LAX-TLV? Also, if LY does cancel the TLV-YYZ route, would LY still route TLV-EWR-ORD-EWR-TLV route for a while, or would they make TLV-ORD nonstop immediately afterwards?? What aircraft would make this route...a 762??

A 762ER cannot make LAX-TLV if that is what you are asking. As far as TLV-ORD goes, the flight is 300nm farther than TLV-YYZ but I believe LY uses high gross weight 762ERs, so the aircraft should be capable.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MAH4546
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:11 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
As far as TLV-ORD goes, the flight is 300nm farther than TLV-YYZ but I believe LY uses high gross weight 762ERs, so the aircraft should be capable.

It certainly is. MIA-TLV is a 762ER and takes on minimal weight restrictions.
a.
 
amirs
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
As far as TLV-ORD goes, the flight is 300nm farther than TLV-YYZ but I believe LY uses high gross weight 762ERs, so the aircraft should be capable

LY had nonstop TLV - ORD in the past, and had no troubles opertaing it.
 
N1120A
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:11 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 7):
LY had nonstop TLV - ORD in the past, and had no troubles opertaing it.

With what aircraft? I was pointing out that the 762ER as flown by LY should make the route, not doubting that it could. Read the post better.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:51 pm

Once again, the high price of landing at YYZ kills a service to Toronto.

The GTAA needs to start re-thinking their overpriced charges for allowing planes to land in Toronto..

Toronto is *not* New York. Toronto is *not* LAX. Toronto is *not* a world class city like their leaders would like you to believe..

The GTAA are way off the mark with their landing fees, and this is one of those moments where an axe swung, and El Al had their heads up too high..

Keeping the airline profittable is the key to success, and I applaud El Al for taking action, SHOULD they decide to do it..

Perhaps more people should follow suit.. if i were YHM, i'd be lobbying SSV, TS, Westjet, everyone.. I'd let them land for $1. Just to prove a point.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:56 pm

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Once again, the high price of landing at YYZ kills a service to Toronto.

What really is the justification for the high fees in YYZ? How do the fees in YYZ compare with other Canadian airports like YUL and YVR...?
 
mah584jr
Posts: 422
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:03 pm

I think a PHL route would be more profitable than a MIA route, due to Philly's large Jewish population. Any thoughts?
 
joeyby
Posts: 46
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:25 pm

i was waiting for this to happen, about time elal switched from the 767 to the newer 777, saves costs plus elal recently finalised the order for 2 more 777s so the 767s are now workin the lhr tlv route

for such a long journey u need PTVS!!!
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
The GTAA needs to start re-thinking their overpriced charges for allowing planes to land in Toronto..

Come on Mike, no doubt that the fees at YYZ are steep and that is partly due to the high rent that the Feds charge YYZ which the GTAA passes on to the airlines. While the Cdn. Govt. reduced substantially the rents of all the other major airports in the country last year, especially YVR they barely moved on the rent charged to YYZ. The joker currently in the PMO is not going to do anything to change it anytime soon.
It would be a shame to lose LY but don't forget what YYZ has gained in since last year: AI, EY, AM, and now CX Cargo.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Toronto is *not* New York. Toronto is *not* LAX. Toronto is *not* a world class city like their leaders would like you to believe..

As far as being a "world class city"... I strongly disagree with your statement.
According to Wikipedia world class city means "A global city and world city, or world-class city, is a city that has a direct and tangible effect on global affairs through socioeconomic, cultural, and/or political means."

While Toronto is not in the same league as NYC, London, or Hong Kong, it has all the financial, cultural, demographic qualities to put it in the same group with Chicago, Sydney, Frankfurt, Los Angeles etc.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
amirs
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Quoting Amirs (Reply 7):
LY had nonstop TLV - ORD in the past, and had no troubles opertaing it.

With what aircraft? I was pointing out that the 762ER as flown by LY should make the route, not doubting that it could. Read the post better.

on 762, I was actually agreeing with you.
 
YULYMX
Posts: 734
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:56 pm

EL Al use to come To YUL...

Toronto Not even #1 world class city in Canada... (Montréal and Vancouver got more flavors)

Toronto would never be as classy as Montréal even if they try...  

[Edited 2006-07-18 16:57:55]
 
Cruiser
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 13):
Come on Mike, no doubt that the fees at YYZ are steep and that is partly due to the high rent that the Feds charge YYZ which the GTAA passes on to the airlines. While the Cdn. Govt. reduced substantially the rents of all the other major airports in the country last year, especially YVR they barely moved on the rent charged to YYZ. The joker currently in the PMO is not going to do anything to change it anytime soon.

I will just add to this that the GTAA charges an all-in fee. I was doing some investigating over the past few days and the landing fees at YYC or YVR may not seem that high, but then there are all kinds of other fees added such as if the aircraft hooks up to the GPU, common-use fees, if a passenger goes through FIS, etc.

Check them out...
Vancouver:
http://www.yvr.ca/pdf/business/tariff/tariff_january2006.pdf

Calgary:
http://www.calgaryairport.com/fts/getfile.cfm?fid=5426

Toronto:
http://www.gtaa.com/Index.aspx?Sid=N...ode5.2/Node5.2.1/Node5.2.1.1&Tpl=1

So yes, it does look really bad when they say that YYZ has high landing fees, but it is not representing the true picture. Air Canada would be complaining a lot more if it truly was costing them an arm and a leg.

Also, I know that many people could not see how an airline could run charging $1 per flight (i.e. Jetsgo), and I believe that many would agree that you could not provide adequate services to an aircraft if you just charged a landing fee of $1...unless you nickel and dimed for everything else. So in reality...are you saving that much and ultimately, are the passengers willing to go to a no frills airport to save a few dollars? I just don't think so...

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
Steelhead
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:07 am

Everybody is complaining about this, but i don't see any action by the airlines - for example switching flights to another airport in southern ontario.
YHM (Hamilton) or YXU (London/Ont.).

YHM is much closer to the Niagara Falls - on of the main attractions here. May be the airport must change marketing to the world - for example
"Hamilton/Niagara Region International ".

Looking to Florida it seems to be no problem at all for the britsh tour operators
to fly their pax to Sanford instead of Orlando International.

I can see this especiallialy for all flights with mostly "non business" pax.

May be this will make the people at YYZ think a little bit more about their fees.

What do you think about this ?
 
panam330
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 11):
I think a PHL route would be more profitable than a MIA route, due to Philly's large Jewish population. Any thoughts?

Have you been to South Florida in the past few decades? It's commonly referred to as the 6th borough of New York City, and we all know that NYC has the largest Jewish population in the United States.

Sad about the possibility of YYZ losing TLV service on LY. I thought that ORD was the least profitable station in North America? If so, why would they drop YYZ if it were more profitable than Chicago? Hopefully this will not come to fruition, as variability is a fun thing for spotters. Airlines like LY are not so common in North America, but if they aren't making money they have to take effective action. Good luck to LY.
 
krisyyz
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
The GTAA needs to start re-thinking their overpriced charges for allowing planes to land in Toronto..

and what? go bankrupt? The GTAA is a non-profit organization that is being charged abnormally high rent from the federal government. The rapid revitalization of GTAA surly plays a part in the high landing fee as well but the main culprit is Ottawa.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Toronto is *not* New York. Toronto is *not* LAX. Toronto is *not* a world class city like their leaders would like you to believe..

The GTA is the 5th largest metropolitan area in North America and is a world class city.

KrisYYZ
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 11):
I think a PHL route would be more profitable than a MIA route, due to Philly's large Jewish population. Any thoughts?

Dude are you kidding? Miami has the second largest Jewish community in the world, and the second largest Israeli diaspora in the world. The Jewish community in Miami is nearly three times that of Philadelphia's, and more importantly. the Israeli community and Miami's Israeli business ties are far. far larger/stronger than Philadelphia's. As long as El Al is flying to Newark, they aren't going to be flying to Philadelphia. I do think there is potential for a Philadelphia-Tel Aviv route, but in no way, shape, or form would it be more successful than a Miami-Tel Aviv flight.
a.
 
ORDTerminal1
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:15 am

Anyone know how long EL AL has been in Chicago for?

And if the new routing was ORD-YYZ-TLV, would it be possible to buy tickets for ORD-YYZ?
717, 727, 732,733, 734, 735, 738, 742, 744, 752, 763, 319, 320, 340, F100
 
rjpieces
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 11):
I think a PHL route would be more profitable than a MIA route, due to Philly's large Jewish population. Any thoughts?

Reply 20 covered it well!

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Miami has the second largest Jewish community in the world,

Outside of Israel of course.

And slightly off-topic, but what would you call the center of Miami's Jewish Community? The Upper West Side of Miami hehe. It's not the same as it was forty years ago where Wolfies was is it?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Jayce
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:35 am

As much as I'm usually in favour of bashing Toronto, they are getting screwed on this one. Ottawa charges them extremely high rent and they have no other choice but to pass that on to the airlines.

Obviously the people who live in Toronto think it's a world class city. Heck, if I lived in Saskatoon, I'd be pretty sure it was also a world class city.  yes 

Let's hope AC helps out with this one. Though I suspect they would be pretty happy to have YYZ-TLV all to themselves.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
EddieDude
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 21):
if the new routing was ORD-YYZ-TLV, would it be possible to buy tickets for ORD-YYZ?

I second that question. Since EY has 5th freedom for LAX-YYZ, I guess they will have for ORD-YYZ too, but would like to know for sure.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
airplanenut
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 3):
What aircraft are they most likely going to send LAX-TLV? Also, if LY does cancel the TLV-YYZ route, would LY still route TLV-EWR-ORD-EWR-TLV route for a while, or would they make TLV-ORD nonstop immediately afterwards?? What aircraft would make this route...a 762??

The TLV-LAX-TLV route used to be a 744. As for Newark, when did they start adding Chicago? Since the round trip is just under 24 hours of flying, I thought it was just one plane on the route without breaking for Chicago. At least in the past there was no Chicago leg...
Why yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist...
 
JAGflyer
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:10 am

A more unrelated question:

If LAX becomes non-stop, what happens to the YYZ-LAX-YYZ flights? Can I still fly to LAX from YYZ on LY? What will be the route for LY105/106?
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Once again, the high price of landing at YYZ kills a service to Toronto.

The GTAA needs to start re-thinking their overpriced charges for allowing planes to land in Toronto..

Bullsh*t. Especially now when compared to the price of oil. Airlines have other concerns...

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Perhaps more people should follow suit.. if i were YHM, i'd be lobbying SSV, TS, Westjet, everyone.. I'd let them land for $1. Just to prove a point.

They would have done it already if landing fees were the issue. But with the risk of losing the high-yield pax not willing to deal with insane Hamilton-Toronto transfers? Is there even a train from YHM to downtown Toronto, or does everyone has to endure the the traffic jams?

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 15):
Toronto Not even #1 world class city in Canada... (Montréal and Vancouver got more flavors)

Toronto would never be as classy as Montréal even if they try...  

Although I definitely agree with you (Toronto is disgusting!), I don't think this is an argument for airlines, who come where the big $$$ are, and in Canada these are in Toronto  

[Edited 2006-07-18 21:14:37]
When I doubt... go running!
 
YULYMX
Posts: 734
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:16 am

EL AL use to come to Montréal there is a huge Jewish comunity in montréal, heck even AC had a flight in the past a B767 i think!

Even the smooke meat was invented in montréal

[Edited 2006-07-18 21:17:37]
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
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RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:17 am

Hopefully, LY will continue flying to YYZ. YYZ offers a healthy mix of business, tourist, and VFR traffic for both LY and AC. It seems that the TLV-YYZ route is very profitable for AC. I wonder why the route is unprofitable for LY. Are the landing fees the only reason why LY cannot turn a profit on this route? If so, why doesn't LY route some of its Canadian flights through YUL where many of its passengers originate?

Before LY adds new destinations in the United States, it should start non-stop service to ORD, increase flight frequencies to ORD and MIA, and use only 777s and 744s on its existing North American routes. If LY adds new American cities to its network, I think that BOS, IAD, DFW, or SFO are better choices than PHL.
 
krisyyz
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:17 am

IF LY does suspend service via YYZ and AC picks up the slack I wonder what would they do to increase capacity?

I doubt that the loads would warrant a second daily B762/763er flight from YYZ. AC's A343's could fly it non-stop but I doubt AC would have a free aircraft for that route. A future B772LR route perhaps?

KrisYYZ
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 26):
If LAX becomes non-stop, what happens to the YYZ-LAX-YYZ flights? Can I still fly to LAX from YYZ on LY? What will be the route for LY105/106?

Probably not. Unless you backtrack to TLV perhaps!
Do some people actually even think of flying LY when travelling between YYZ and LAX?
Well, although I have never flown LY I have no problem to imagine that their inflight service is better than the US airlines or even AC...
When I doubt... go running!
 
RickYHM
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:55 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:35 am

For what El Al pays for landing fees at YYZ, they could build there own wing at YHM and still save money.
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:01 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 31):
Do some people actually even think of flying LY when travelling between YYZ and LAX?

IIRC I don't think you can buy just a YYZ-LAX ticket on LY.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 13):
According to Wikipedia world class city means

While I agree with your opinion on Toronto's status, Wikipedia is a really bad source to use.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Toronto is *not* New York. Toronto is *not* LAX. Toronto is *not* a world class city like their leaders would like you to believe..

What are you talking about? Toronto is the center of Canada's economy, the air transport center of Southern Ontario and even upstate New York when it comes to international travel and the 4th largest city proper in North America

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 19):
The GTAA is a non-profit organization that is being charged abnormally high rent from the federal government. The rapid revitalization of GTAA surly plays a part in the high landing fee as well but the main culprit is Ottawa.

Actually, the problem is two fold. First, instead of setting up a quasi-private entity, the GTAA should just be a government agency that is responsible for its economic condition, like LAWA is. Second, the constant improvement of YYZ has led to a need for revenue.

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 21):
And if the new routing was ORD-YYZ-TLV, would it be possible to buy tickets for ORD-YYZ?

Yes it would

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 27):
Although I definitely agree with you (Toronto is disgusting!)

Oh get over it. Toronto is an absolutely beautiful city. Sure, Montreal is amazing, but give credit where credit is due.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 30):
AC's A343's could fly it non-stop but I doubt AC would have a free aircraft for that route. A future B772LR route perhaps?

More like a future 787 route. The 772LR would be too much airplane for the route

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 31):
Do some people actually even think of flying LY when travelling between YYZ and LAX?

A lot of people actually. LY have generally undercut other airlines and a lot of budget conscious travellers have used them. The problem is that they don't fly daily, nor is pre-clearance available in Canada

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 33):
IIRC I don't think you can buy just a YYZ-LAX ticket on LY.

Yes, you absolutely can.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 33):
IIRC I don't think you can buy just a YYZ-LAX ticket on LY.

Yes, you can.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 31):
Do some people actually even think of flying LY when travelling between YYZ and LAX?

Yup. In fact, at one point (still?), IIRC, Delta codeshared on the route.

Quoting Airplanenut (Reply 25):
The TLV-LAX-TLV route used to be a 744. As for Newark, when did they start adding Chicago? Since the round trip is just under 24 hours of flying, I thought it was just one plane on the route without breaking for Chicago. At least in the past there was no Chicago leg...

ORD has been via Newark since September 2003.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 22):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Miami has the second largest Jewish community in the world,

Outside of Israel of course.

Well, yes, but if you go by city only, Miami's Jewish population is larger than Tel Aviv's, as are the Jewish populations in NYC and LA.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 22):
And slightly off-topic, but what would you call the center of Miami's Jewish Community? The Upper West Side of Miami hehe. It's not the same as it was forty years ago where Wolfies was is it?

Wolfie's is in Sunny Isles Beach, which is now a predominantely Russian-Jewish community. Many Russian have been moving to that area since the end of the Cold War. It is now known as "Little Moscow". The Upper East Side is the name for the neighbourhood just north of downtown. Pretty much all the middle/upper class coastal neighbourhoods - Bal Harbour, Surfside, Aventura, etc. - have large Jewish communities. And of course we have Boca Raton. The cultural center of the Jewish community is Little Tel Aviv, more commonly known as Midtown Miami Beach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Tel_Aviv/Midtown

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 21):
Anyone know how long EL AL has been in Chicago for?

A while, early 90s, I think. They suspended service for a very short period in the early 00s.

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 21):
And if the new routing was ORD-YYZ-TLV, would it be possible to buy tickets for ORD-YYZ?

Yes. You already can.
a.
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting Airplanenut (Reply 25):
The TLV-LAX-TLV route used to be a 744. As for Newark, when did they start adding Chicago? Since the round trip is just under 24 hours of flying, I thought it was just one plane on the route without breaking for Chicago. At least in the past there was no Chicago leg...

Not sure when, but it is now. come october they're supposed to cancel the TLV-EWR-ORD and make it TLV-YYZ-ORD...4 x weekly on 762's

-Ryan
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Toronto is *not* New York. Toronto is *not* LAX. Toronto is *not* a world class city like their leaders would like you to believe..

What do you define as world class?? Is Toronto on the same stage as New York, London & Paris?? Perhaps not. Aside from being Canada's cultural and financial centre, it enjoys a relatively high level of prosperity and quality of life. It is consistently ranked highly in worldwide cities as a place to live, work, and raise a family. Look around, as confirmed by surveys and articles, Toronto is ranked as the worlds must multicultural, and multi-ethnicized city. I know of few other cities that embrace and support this level of ethnic diversity. Is it perfect no? Are there growing pains? Absolutely. Even compared to major U.S. cities, it is comparatively a very civilized place to live and grow.

So now lets get back to the topic at hand. The extortionist user fees that the GTAA charges the airlines. We have a great city, and a tyrannical airport authority, that has made YYZ the #1 highest cost airport in the world. Is LY sending the GTAA a message?? Perhaps. Maybe others will follow. Lets stay focused on the issue.
Above and Beyond
 
YTOFAN
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:21 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 33):

You can buy YYZ-LAX-YYZ tickets directly from the LY website. The flight is also codeshared with Delta. The tickets are much cheaper than their competition.
 
klyk1980
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:58 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:04 am

It is very sad if LY stop flying to YYZ. AC will be the one to benefit.

As I know YYZ is currently charging the highest landing fee in the world. I am not sure why YYZ can charge such a high fee, and Fed gov definitely need to action a little bit to change it.

Toronto is currently the largest city in Canada with close to 5 million population, 5th largest metro in North America. When airlines decide to open up or continue a route, they don`t care about how sceney the city is, $$$ is the talk on the table. O/D traffic, catchment area, business travel, leisure travel and transit. Think about Southern Ontario with 10 million population plus another 2 million from upper NY state, it is a huge market comparable with NYC. Yes...I agree Toronto is not comparable with NY, London, Tokyo or Hong Kong, but definitely a world class city with its own influence.

One last thing...Toronto is the aviation hub of Canada. Those in Montreal or Vancouver have to agree with that with no question at all!
 
Jayce
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Klyk1980 (Reply 39):
One last thing...Toronto is the aviation hub of Canada. Those in Montreal or Vancouver have to agree with that with no question at all!

Busiest airports in Canada in terms of passengers (2005):
1. YYZ: 29,930,200
2. YVR: 16,418,883
3. YUL: 10,892,778
4. YYC: 10,148,718
5. YEG: 4,511,600

 checkmark  I'd have to agree with you. And man, YYC is coming up to third place pretty quickly.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
klyk1980
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:58 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:33 am

Yes Jayce, YYC is coming up quickly because you people in the west getting more traffic from cities in the west. I cannot wait to see if any Asian airlines will operate any summer schedule services from Asia, very possible from NRT or KIX. As I know...either NH or JL is operating charter into YYC during summer season...am I right?
 
YULYMX
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
One last thing...Toronto is the aviation hub of Canada. Those in Montreal or Vancouver have to agree with that with no question at all!

Thank's to Air Canada oups Air Toronto i mean  Smile

From YUL the only canadian city that is not offer nonstop is victoria BC compare yo YYZ

YUL could be and is in some part a very good alternate to airlines: Royal air Maroc, Egyptair, suissair, Olympic Airways, and soon EL Al will prefer YUL...
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3453
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:59 am

Screw pre-clearance. I can fly to LAX round trip for about $460 with tax. The flights are the cheapest and better than AC or AA because:

-Convenient times (leave YYZ @ 8am, arrive at 12pm in LAX, leave LAX @ 2pm arrive YYZ @ 9pm)
-Largest plane of any of the airlines on the route
-Full meal service
-Comfortable seats
-Jewish Atmosphere
-PRICE! All of this for $325 + tax!!
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3453
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 42):
YUL could be and is in some part a very good alternate to airlines: Royal air Maroc, Egyptair, suissair, Olympic Airways, and soon EL Al will prefer YUL...

You can't compare Royal Air Maroc or Egyptair to YYZ. There are tons of African Arabs in MTL, no market for it in YYZ. There are tons of Swiss/French in MTL as well. OA flies to YYZ and they have good loads because of the high population of Greeks in both YYZ and YUL.
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
YULYMX
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 44):

Flight Nonstop from yul... stop in yul both way from YYZ
 
krisyyz
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:59 pm

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 42):
Thank's to Air Canada oups Air Toronto i mean

From YUL the only canadian city that is not offer nonstop is victoria BC compare yo YYZ

YUL could be and is in some part a very good alternate to airlines: Royal air Maroc, Egyptair, suissair, Olympic Airways, and soon EL Al will prefer YUL...

Every major airline has a hub, AC has Toronto as it's hub.. get over it people!!
The GTA is the most populous metropolitan area in Canada therefore it makes sense to have most of the flights to go through YYZ. Calling AC air Toronto is like saying the UA in Air Chicago or LH is Air Frankfurt.

YUL, YVR, YYC are all great airports that would be able to handle more international traffic, but for some reason airlines are still coming to YYZ so it must be some what profitable.

KrisYYZ
 
YULYMX
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 46):

Ac is locking up all the route @ YYZ

They could provide AMS and FCO from YUL like Canadien did the own the route
The international Carrier come to YUL: KLM, Olympic Airways, Cubana, RAM, Egyptair, British Airways, Mexicana, Transaero, Lufthansa, Corsair, Sata, Czech Airlines, Swiss...

It is AC that treat US like third world country... On connection to YYZ with AC there is more people for final destination from Montréal than Toronto... 2 Large Cities... 3.5 Millions and 5 millions people... i thing that both city can fill a plane of 250 peoples to almost anywhere AC fly's to...Ok i will Give you Asia and South America... the feed and everything but... Europe? closer from YUL and only LHR, FRA and CDG from YUL get serious... How about, AMS, ZRH, FCO,MAD, LIS....ETC...

A little Montréaler a little bit frustrated  Smile

Things will eventually change...
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:01 am

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:34 pm

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 47):
Ac is locking up all the route @ YYZ

They could provide AMS and FCO from YUL like Canadien did the own the route
The international Carrier come to YUL: KLM, Olympic Airways, Cubana, RAM, Egyptair, British Airways, Mexicana, Transaero, Lufthansa, Corsair, Sata, Czech Airlines, Swiss...

It is AC that treat US like third world country... On connection to YYZ with AC there is more people for final destination from Montréal than Toronto... 2 Large Cities... 3.5 Millions and 5 millions people... i thing that both city can fill a plane of 250 peoples to almost anywhere AC fly's to...Ok i will Give you Asia and South America... the feed and everything but... Europe? closer from YUL and only LHR, FRA and CDG from YUL get serious... How about, AMS, ZRH, FCO,MAD, LIS....ETC...


A little Montréaler a little bit frustrated

Quite amusing you missed Air France in your list...  Smile
Regardless of what you may want AC to operate from YUL. They will only operate the routes with appropriate aircraft if they will make money... either with pax or cargo. That's the cold hard truth.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
YULYMX
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: El Al May End YYZ Service

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 48):
Quite amusing you missed Air France in your list...

Yes and they come 3 times a day with a B777, B747, A330/343

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