lobster
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747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:37 pm

So I was looking through pics the other day and came across the 747SP. Can someone tell my what purpose it had? Did it come before or after the 200 also? Thanks
 
LH492
Posts: 203
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RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:47 pm

The 747SP (Special Performance) was originally designed as a shortened version of the 747-200B.
Boeing planned to equip the plane with two or three engines but that obviously did not come true. The 747SP became a light ultra-long-hauler which is capable of flying 15.800 kilometeres.
This is possible, since the fuselage is some 14 metres shorter compared to the 747-200.
Since 1975 there were only 44 frames build with the launch customer being Pan Am.

So, the 747SP was designed for extremely long routes and some airlines used it for high density routes even if they were quite short.
It came after the 747-200 and had it maiden flight at the 4th of July 1975.

I hope this helps,
cheers,
Philipp
Carpe Diem, Seize The Day
 
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LAXintl
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RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:49 pm

Pan Am has a requirement for an aircraft to be able to operate JFK-NRT nonstop. Boeings answer the B747SP.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ShowerOfSparks
Posts: 136
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RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Pan Am has a requirement for an aircraft to be able to operate JFK-NRT nonstop. Boeings answer the B747SP.

kind of like Q.A.N.T.A.S. wanting to operate SYD-LHR non stop.
B777SP anyone?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
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RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting ShowerOfSparks (Reply 3):
kind of like Q.A.N.T.A.S. wanting to operate SYD-LHR non stop.
B777SP anyone?

With today's economics, not a chance. The only way it will happen is if an airplane comes along that can do the route non-stop with useful payload and low CASM
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
andz
Posts: 7628
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RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:54 pm

SAA bought 6 in the 70s and used them on many long flights such as JNB-IAH and to Australia, the far east and Europe. I flew on it many times and it was a real rocket, one memorable flight was a jump seat JNB-DUR which is a 45 minute flight, we climbed to FL410! Another was a flight CPT-JNB which is a two hour flight and the SP did it that day in under 90 minutes.

There are still 2 SPs parked at JNB, one in full SAA colours (supposed to go to Rand Airport to join the museum) and an all-white one.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
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VirginFlyer
Posts: 4224
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RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:59 pm

Quoting ShowerOfSparks (Reply 3):
B777SP anyone?

Before embarking on the 777X project, which led to the 777-200LR, Boeing were looking at a 777-100X, which would have been a shortened 777-200 with consequent increase in range. As N1120A points above, this is not a good economic proposition, as it raises the CASM somewhat...

Quoting ShowerOfSparks (Reply 3):
kind of like Q.A.N.T.A.S.

Actually, Qantas did use two 747SPs, which it deployed on routes to Wellington in New Zealand, where the runway was too short for a standard 747-200B, and on non-stop flights between Australia and the west coast of the USA, which beyond the 747-200B's range...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
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centrair
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RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:01 pm

Funny lookin 747 ain't it.

It has a pretty big fan base...and even its own homepage http://www.747sp.com
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
UK_Dispatcher
Posts: 2254
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:44 pm

RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:06 pm

I think the only two chances left for us to fly the B747SP are with Iran Air and Syrianair.

The only other flying examples I can think of are VIP versions.
 
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VirginFlyer
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:33 pm

The other thing I meant to point out - it is not a shortened 747-200, but actually a shortened 747-100. It also had single slotted flaps, instead of the triple slotted flaps on the -100 and -200...


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V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
TheCheese
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:39 am

RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:39 pm

Also remember that, when the SP was designed and entered service, Russia didn't allow overflights of their airspace.

That dictated many of the routes between Europe and Asia, and a plane with long legs and a moderate payload was a boon to many airlines. It meant the difference between a 18-hour, one-stop trip (three crews) and a 15-hour, non-stop trip (two crews).

Then, of course, the USSR fell apart, and Russia allowed overflights by other airlines, and the 747SP days were numbered. When newer planes with better economics, it got relegated to the tertiary markets.

Personally, I think an SP would be a dandy flying mansion. But that's just me.
 
Gemuser
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RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:09 pm

Quoting Thecheese (Reply 10):
Also remember that, when the SP was designed and entered service, Russia didn't allow overflights of their airspace.

This is simpley NOT TRUE! Overflights of the USSR, on a highly controlled basis, of course, started before the 747 first flew. AI was flying DEL-SVO in the late 60 and JL commenced HND-SVO-LHR services and SK was operating CPH-Taskent-BKK about the same time, to name just a few.

Gemuser
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BostonGuy
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:35 pm

Gemuser,

The USSR didn't allow overflights of sensitive areas, and one of the most sensitive areas was the Kamchatka peninsula and the Soviet Naval Base at Vladivostok.

Certainly there were airlines flying to the USSR for quite some time, but "great circle routes" over the Pacific would have taken aircraft over parts of the USSR that were off-limits. KAL 007 strayed over this very area and was shot down, evidence of how sensitive the area was to the USSR.

And evidence of why the 747SP was needed in an era (late 70's) when long-haul flights were predominantly flown by 4-engine aircraft.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4462
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RE: 747SP, Why?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting BostonGuy (Reply 12):
The USSR didn't allow overflights of sensitive areas, and one of the most sensitive areas was the Kamchatka peninsula and the Soviet Naval Base at Vladivostok.

Certainly there were airlines flying to the USSR for quite some time, but "great circle routes" over the Pacific would have taken aircraft over parts of the USSR that were off-limits. KAL 007 strayed over this very area and was shot down, evidence of how sensitive the area was to the USSR.

The point is that Soviet overflight restrictions were NOT a great factor in the development of the B747SP. Great Circle overflights WERE allowed. They had to be along quite tightly defined corridors and avoid sensitive areas, of course, but they were NOT sufficiently irksome to the airlines of the time to prompt the development of the SP.

The KAL007 incident was because the over flight WAS UNAUTHORISED and IIRC went over some sensitive areas, as well.
.
Most if not all countries have sensative areas you can't fly over. Try flying over just the right spots in the Norfolk, VA area and see how fast you have jet fighters up your arse!

The SK route across the USSR from CPH to Taskent (technical stop) to BKK was an early example an overflight and was quite a feather in SKs cap in the early/mid 1960s. They and their governments did some great pioneering work on this route.

Gemuser
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