User avatar
Tugger
Topic Author
Posts: 6011
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:35 am

I love finding these kind of things!

Fair Use Excerpt:
Press Release Source: Pratt & Whitney

Pratt & Whitney Announces New Geared Turbofan Technology Partnerships
Tuesday July 18, 11:07 am ET

LONDON, July 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- FARNBOROUGH AIRSHOW -- Pratt & Whitney, a United Technologies Corp. (NYSE: UTX - News) company, today announced the formation of strategic relationships with MTU Aero Engines, Avio and Volvo Aero for continued development of key Geared Turbofan (GTF) engine technologies.

The Pratt & Whitney Geared Turbofan engine represents a step-change in commercial engine performance for single-aisle aircraft. The expected benefits will include up to a 12 percent improvement in fuel efficiency and a 30-decibel noise reduction over Stage III requirements. A ground demonstration test is planned in the third quarter 2007 and a flight demonstration test in 2008."

Link: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060718/netu021.html?.v=61

Looks like the "next generation" single aisle planes may be possible sooner than people think! Of course whether this project produces the intended results remains to be seen but based on the dates they are stating there seems to be a lot of confidence.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:40 am

This is awesome.

As an aside, press releases are 100% subject to fair use. Since they are released for public consumption, it is legal to post the whole thing.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Duff44
Posts: 1561
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:48 am

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:52 am

I'm actually working on this project at P&W and I'm enjoying it a lot! It's the first engine I've really worked on that was a ground-up project, so a lot of it is new territory. But I'm having a blast.

 bigthumbsup 

Hopefully the GTF will be a perfect powerplant for the Boeing 797 and Airbus A360

 Big grin
I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
 
User avatar
Tugger
Topic Author
Posts: 6011
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:54 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
As an aside, press releases are 100% subject to fair use.

Thanks N328KF! I am still learning the rules on this. So press releases are OK, while news stories published by newspapers etc. are subject to fair use?

So here's the whole thing:

LONDON, July 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- FARNBOROUGH AIRSHOW -- Pratt & Whitney, a United Technologies Corp. company, today announced the formation of strategic relationships with MTU Aero Engines, Avio and Volvo Aero for continued development of key Geared Turbofan (GTF) engine technologies.

The Pratt & Whitney Geared Turbofan engine represents a step-change in commercial engine performance for single-aisle aircraft. The expected benefits will include up to a 12 percent improvement in fuel efficiency and a 30-decibel noise reduction over Stage III requirements. A ground demonstration test is planned in the third quarter 2007 and a flight demonstration test in 2008.

"Our market research had indicated that customers of the next generation single-aisle aircraft will be equally focused on engine performance and cost of operation," said Steve Heath, president, Pratt & Whitney Commercial Engines. "Pratt & Whitney, together with our business partners, MTU, Avio and Volvo Aero, are committed to developing and maturing the Geared Turbofan technology in advance of the next generation single-aisle aircraft."

MTU Aero Engines, based in Munich, Germany, and Pratt & Whitney are working closely to develop new, scalable common engine core technology for the 90 to 200 passenger commercial and military markets. The common core components include development of new high-pressure compressor and high-speed, low-spool turbine technologies.

"MTU and Pratt & Whitney have a long history of working together on the development of innovative new engine technology, including on the recently certified PW6000," said Heath. "MTU brings extensive compressor design and integrally bladed rotor (IBR) experience to the Geared Turbofan technology development program, and we are excited to have them onboard.

This new technology will increase the reliability and maintainability of the engine while reducing fuel consumption and the overall cost of ownership."

Moreover Pratt & Whitney finalized an agreement with Avio, headquartered in Torino, Italy, for the development and manufacturing of the advanced fan drive gear system for the GTF ground and flight test demonstrator. The GTF development program is taking advantage of Avio's capabilities for the design and prototyping of power transmission gearboxes and particularly of geared fan transmission systems. This system is a critical part of the Geared Turbofan technology; it enables the fan to operate at optimal speeds independent of the low-pressure compressor and turbine. "The optimization of the fan speed results in significantly lower noise emissions and an increased bypass ratio, which contributes to greater fuel efficiency gains for the customer," said Heath.

Volvo Aero, of Trollhattan, Sweden, brings expertise in turbine exhaust case technology to the Geared Turbofan development. "The turbine exhaust case is the rear structural mounting point of the engine to the aircraft wing and is critical to stabilizing the airflow from the engine," said Heath.

Pratt & Whitney has over 17,000 aircraft engines in service with hundreds of airlines around the world. Additionally, Pratt & Whitney is a leading partner in two joint venture companies to manufacture commercial aircraft engines: the International Aero Engines (IAE) V2500, which operates on the Airbus A320 family of aircraft, and the Engine Alliance (EA) GP7200 engine, FAR 33 certified on the new Airbus A380.

Pratt & Whitney is a world leader in the design, manufacture and service of aircraft engines, space propulsion systems and industrial gas turbines. United Technologies, based in Hartford, Conn., USA, is a diversified company providing high technology products and services to the global aerospace and building industries.

Source: Pratt & Whitney

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
CptGermany
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:14 am

Ahhh, the rebirth of the SuperFan. Interesting to see some of the same players (P&W and MTU) again! This is great news for the future of A's and B's future single aisle products.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Topic Author
Posts: 6011
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:10 pm

I don't think people here at A.net are aware that the performance promised with the Geared Turbofan is exactly what Y1 needs to become real.

I found out about the GTF a few years ago and figured that it wouldn't be long before PW would be out with it. That turned out to be a wee bit optimistic! Once all the talk about "Y1" began I again figured we'd hear about it but it has been relatively quiet. I was surprised and happy to hear the announcement at Farnborough, good place to make it. Nice to see the international nature of it.

I think this is THE engine that could get Y1 rolling. A 12% fuel savings will kick Boeing into gear. I believe we will learn of the validity of PW and their partners claims by what kind interest Boeing takes, they have to be seriously studying it.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:19 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 3):
So press releases are OK, while news stories published by newspapers etc. are subject to fair use?

Yes, provided there isn't a restriction on it, you can post a press release in its entirety. Newspaper articles, because they are covered by copyright can't - you are welcome to post a fair use quote, but not the whole thing...

As Tugger says, this is an engine that will make the next generation of narrowbody aircraft available.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 3):
A ground demonstration test is planned in the third quarter 2007 and a flight demonstration test in 2008.

Provided they're on target with demonstrating it, that would go quite well with what has been said about a Y1/737RS/797 industrial launch in 2009 or 2010, with EIS around 2014-1016...

Quoting Tugger (Reply 3):
MTU Aero Engines, based in Munich, Germany, and Pratt & Whitney are working closely to develop new, scalable common engine core technology for the 90 to 200 passenger commercial and military markets. The common core components include development of new high-pressure compressor and high-speed, low-spool turbine technologies.

Sounds like IAE is dead in the water once A320 ends production.

I wonder whether RR will have anything to say about this publicly - perhaps an announcement of development of their rumoured 3-spool engine in this class?

With more engines and airframes likely than just the two each in production today, the development of the 100-200 seat market is going to be very interesting to watch over the next decade...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
cartoonranger
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:47 pm

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 6):
I wonder whether RR will have anything to say about this publicly - perhaps an announcement of development of their rumoured 3-spool engine in this class?

Flight Global had an article on exactly that suggestion about a week ago. They also published one on an open rotor concept.

Link: http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+high+fuel+prices+favour+more.html
and
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles.../Open+rotors+stir+Rolls-Royce.html
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:19 pm

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 6):
Sounds like IAE is dead in the water once A320 ends production.
I wonder whether RR will have anything to say about this publicly - perhaps an announcement of development of their rumoured 3-spool engine in this class?

I'm tempted to draw this conclusion, too. I found the absence of RR from this little snippet intensely curious....

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
LONDON, July 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- FARNBOROUGH AIRSHOW -- Pratt & Whitney, a United Technologies Corp. (NYSE: UTX - News) company, today announced the formation of strategic relationships with MTU Aero Engines, Avio and Volvo Aero for continued development of key Geared Turbofan (GTF) engine technologies.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting Cartoonranger (Reply 7):
Flight Global had an article on exactly that suggestion about a week ago.

Yes that's what I was referring to. I'm wondering whether RR might come out and make an official announcement that they will be pursuing this, or something else in the same class, outside of the IAE partnership...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
Rheinbote
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:30 pm

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Looks like the "next generation" single aisle planes may be possible sooner than people think!

But then we had the SuperFan, the PW8000, the PW800...none of which did get anywhere. So tell me why I should get excited this time?
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8003
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:18 am

I think one possibility is that Pratt & Whitney could be looking at building a 75,000 to 95,000 lb. thrust geared turbofan specifically for the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350XWB-800/900 models.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
I think one possibility is that Pratt & Whitney could be looking at building a 75,000 to 95,000 lb. thrust geared turbofan specifically for the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350XWB-800/900 models.

Too late for the B787. Boeing rejected the PW proposal for being too high a risk even though they promised the best performance. Perhaps PW still have a chance for the A350.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Topic Author
Posts: 6011
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: Next Gen Engines - The GTF Is Coming (finally)?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 10):
So tell me why I should get excited this time?

I agree completely Rheinbote! The proof will be when they actually produce something.
But I think that by making an announcement like this at a major aviation trade show (not just a "show and tell" press conference at their facility) with dates and partners names dragged into it leads me to believe that there is something to it.

Again I think that we will know more by what Boeing (and Airbus) does.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
a 75,000 to 95,000 lb. thrust geared turbofan specifically for the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350XWB-800/900

I hadn't thought of this but it is definitely feasible. My thought though was that the GTF would start out in the lower thrust ranges and go up for there (as most engine development does).

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner