macc
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OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:02 pm

Todays "derStandard" reports that OS considers closing down the flights to MEL and SYD. Due to the rise in fuel costs, they are obviously struggling on profits on that route. As this routes were introduced by Lauda, the now higher crew costs with OS make for another aspect of the rise in operational costs.

OS is looking into routes to Pakistan instead.

I always thought OS is doing pretty well on their Australian flights, especially as they get lots of transit pax from other countries...
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Humberside
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:34 pm

Wouldn't that just leave BA and Virgin as Euroepan airlines to Australia of OS pull out?
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ANother
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 1):
Wouldn't that just leave BA and Virgin as Euroepan airlines to Australia of OS pull out?

Other than code share - yes. And BA recently dropped MEL (other than code share).
 
ka
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:49 pm

Quoting Macc (Thread starter):
I always thought OS is doing pretty well on their Australian flights, especially as they get lots of transit pax from other countries...

And that is the dilemma OS is facing when closing the Australia-flights: As the biggest proportion of pax on these flights are connecting pax, a number of regional flights are loosing considerable numbers of pax - and if some of these can sustain is to be seen.

For some time the Australia flights remained in the network to feed pax through VIE into OS flights. A combination of connecting pax and very competitive prices are never good for the yields. Together with the high fuel prices and new labor agreement at OS the Australia flights unfortunately face strong headwinds.

IMHO we will see the closure of VIE-SIN-MEL soon and the attempt to keep VIE-KUL-SYD up and running, increasing competitiveness and appeal by increasing the flights to daily (from 6/7).

Even if Australia is dropped or reduced we won´t see new OS-longhaul destinations too soon. OS simply hasn't got the cash to open new routes at the moment. It is first more about consolidating the route structure and simplifying the fleet - I see the two A343 leaving the fleet when Australia is reduced/dropped. And there seems to be an airline already taking a detailed look at those two airframes....

On a side note: The installation of the new C-class into OS T7s seems to be taking some more time than expected. OE-LPB still is in Hamburg and the first service to SYD is not planned before July 27. That takes -PB 8 weeks out of service iso 4-5 weeks as originally planned.

Greetz,
KA.
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Nimish
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:52 pm

I can see EK grinning on hearing about this Big grin
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flyingKangaroo
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:53 pm

It would be a real shame if they left. While Sydney and Melbourne fill up with flights to Asia and the US, the flights to Europe are practically gone. And like ANother said, BA has stopped serving MEL. Quite sad really, now that only BA and VS are left! And if what was discussed in another thread is true, BA may drop services to Australia all together in a few years.

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SA7700
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:12 pm

OS has always fascinated me - in a strange way. They served JNB, pulled out and cited that the route was not profitable. Yes, we have to take O&D and connecting pax into consideration, but why is BA, KL, LH, AF, LX, etc. still in the market if the JNB route is so "unprofitable"? In fact, AF applied for double dailies (7 days a week), but couldn't get it.
Even EK saw the gap and have double dailies (77W) into-and out of JNB and I am quite sure that many EK passengers are connecting in DXB.

Comments please?


Rgds

SA7700
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JoKeR
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:20 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 6):
Even EK saw the gap and have double dailies (77W) into-and out of JNB

They wanted even more frequencies along with EY and QR, possibly GF. Yield from South Africa is apparently low, but the demand is high so airlines probably balance the two factors out and thus sustain their South Africa operations.
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centrair
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:21 pm

There were rumors last year that OS was interested in NGO. Wish they would consider us.
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macc
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:21 pm

I think the reason for OS to back out of JNB was the competition from other carriers from Europe.
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JoKeR
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:26 pm

Quoting Macc (Reply 9):
I think the reason for OS to back out of JNB was the competition from other carriers from Europe.

Or LH not being entirely happy that OS is taking a slice of their cake. I traveled once on OS to JNB and really enjoyed their service, and the flight was packed on the A342.
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SA7700
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 10):
Or LH not being entirely happy that OS is taking a slice of their cake.

LH and SA has been codesharing for years, even before SA entered Star. LX is also part of the game. I don't think it has anything to do with LH not being happy, per se.


Rgds

SA7700
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HB-IWC
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:42 pm

Quoting Ka (Reply 3):
IMHO we will see the closure of VIE-SIN-MEL soon and the attempt to keep VIE-KUL-SYD up and running, increasing competitiveness and appeal by increasing the flights to daily (from 6/7)

I agree with your point of view. MEL will likely get the axe, or, alternatively, OS might revert the route to a VIE-KUL/SIN-SYD-MEL-KUL/SIN-VIE triagnle, as it used to be for quite a while. I would also think they'd be better of routing the flights through SIN instead of KUL and pursuing closer ties with Star partner SQ.

Quoting Ka (Reply 3):
Even if Australia is dropped or reduced we won´t see new OS-longhaul destinations too soon. OS simply hasn't got the cash to open new routes at the moment. It is first more about consolidating the route structure and simplifying the fleet - I see the two A343 leaving the fleet when Australia is reduced/dropped. And there seems to be an airline already taking a detailed look at those two airframes....

Again, I agree with your point of view. The two A343s are oddballs in the fleet and they are likely to go if and when Australia flights get closed or reduced. Nevertheless, OS is unlikely to open or reopen new longhaul destinations, although there has been talk of a return to JNB, which would be silly, I believe.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 6):
OS has always fascinated me - in a strange way. They served JNB, pulled out and cited that the route was not profitable. Yes, we have to take O&D and connecting pax into consideration, but why is BA, KL, LH, AF, LX, etc. still in the market if the JNB route is so "unprofitable"?

OS was facing the same problems as SN and AZ on the JNB route: a majority of connecting pax at very competitive prices, diluting the yields. The Austrian, Belgian and Italian markets seem to be too small to sustain flights to JNB by themselves and therefore those airlines had to try their luck through connecting traffic. BA, VS, AF and LH have their homebases in high yielding markets with a lot of O&D premium traffic, which makes such flights much easier to sustain.

OS tried to optimize aircraft utilization for its double overnight JNB route by adding CPT and HRE tags to the flight, rather than having the aircraft sit in JNB for the better part of a day. Also that was not the best of strategies as both of those tag ons turned out to be costly affairs, mainly because of crew costs and additional cycles for the aircraft, while bringing little incremental value to the route, as most traffic to CPT and HRE was low yielding tourist related traffic.

You might be surprised that KL is facing tougher times with its JNB route than with other longhaul routes, because of a small home market and as such larger amounts of connecting traffic, while the route is further jeopardized by scheduling which is deemed less commercially interesting. If one takes a closer look at KLM pricing for destinations around the KLM network, one will very often find the most attractive fares -including premium fares- in KLM's longhaul network to JNB and CPT.
 
mainMAN
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:56 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 6):
OS has always fascinated me - in a strange way. They served JNB, pulled out and cited that the route was not profitable. Yes, we have to take O&D and connecting pax into consideration, but why is BA, KL, LH, AF, LX, etc. still in the market if the JNB route is so "unprofitable"?

I always imagine that there's a very fine line between what's profitable and what's not....i.e. a few dozen high-yielding passengers per month, up front.

Is it also possible that VIE didn't have the same volume of O&D passengers that LON, AMS, FRA, CDG do, and thus fares on the route were too low? If South Africa is seen to be relatively low-yielding anyway, then it might be a marginal route for other, bigger carriers from the bigger hubs...? Just my thoughts.
 
SA7700
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:05 pm

Macc, sorry for hijacking your thread. My sincerest apologies.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 12):
BA, VS, AF and LH have their homebases in high yielding markets with a lot of O&D premium traffic, which makes such flights much easier to sustain.

Would JNB-ZRH also be classified as high-yield, with both LX and SA in the market?

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 12):
You might be surprised that KL is facing tougher times with its JNB route than with other longhaul routes, because of a small home market and as such larger amounts of connecting traffic, while the route is further jeopardized by scheduling which is deemed less commercially interesting.

I am not all that surprised. I understand that planes on the ground does not make money, but in the South Africa-Europe market, there is no real demand for daylight flights. Wouldn't the use of the A330 or B777 on the JNB route, increase their yields? Should we brace ourselves for a possible KL pull-out from JNB?


Rgds

SA7700
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HB-IWC
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:18 pm

Not to further let the thread wander off topic, just some very short answer to this:

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 14):
Would JNB-ZRH also be classified as high-yield, with both LX and SA in the market?

I would say ZRH is better than VIE, BRU and MXP, but not as good as FRA, CDG and definitely LHR. SR's ZRH-JNB did well until they introduced the daylight flight to improve on aircraft utilization. Once LX changed the flight back to double overnight, it has started to pick up speed again.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 14):
Should we brace ourselves for a possible KL pull-out from JNB?

No, I would not think so. KL is making good money with the cargo on the 4 times weekly combi service. But on the passenger side, the yields are under pressure.
 
behramjee
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting Macc (Thread starter):
OS is looking into routes to Pakistan instead.

how do you know this? definitely a very interesting development...hopefully it is Lahore and not ISB/KHI.
 
cedarjet
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:52 pm

Yeah I heard Austrian are hot for Pakistan.
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SA744
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:04 pm

I just recently flew KLM from JNB and the flights were packed and also just had a friend who went to the US via Amsterdam and said the JNB route was packed like sardines.So i am not sure when the bad yield times are.

SA744
 
macc
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 14):
Macc, sorry for hijacking your thread. My sincerest apologies



Quoting SA744 (Reply 18):
just recently flew KLM from JNB and the flights were packed and also just had a friend who went to the US via Amsterdam and said the JNB route was packed like sardines.So i am not sure when the bad yield times are.

Stay out of my thread now!!! Big grin

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 16):
how do you know this? definitely a very interesting development

it was mentioned in the same article.
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
Aleksandar
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:13 am

Well, it seems that old story is repeating: European airlines closing down Australia service  Sad If we look back a bit, the list of such airlines is not small:
KLM
Alitalia
Olympic
Lufthansa
JAT (although they showed said few times how the airline would return to the market, this seems only like a dream).
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ozglobal
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting FlyingKangaroo (Reply 5):
It would be a real shame if they left. While Sydney and Melbourne fill up with flights to Asia and the US, the flights to Europe are practically gone.

Errh, no. Flights to Europe from SYD and MEL total well over 100 widebodys, mainly 744's and 777's, every week (QF alone has 28, add to that a heaps of SQ, TG, MH, CX, BA, EK, VS, JL, ANA, KL and others) Many of these are twice daily from both SYD and MEL, connecting via their Asian or ME hubs to Europe. It's just there are fewer European carriers among them. Every major city in Europe is accessible with no more than one stop across this suite of carriers.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting SA744 (Reply 18):
I just recently flew KLM from JNB and the flights were packed and also just had a friend who went to the US via Amsterdam and said the JNB route was packed like sardines.So i am not sure when the bad yield times are.

There is absolutely no relationship between the packed planes on the route and the yield situation of mentioned route! Everything depends on what kind of fares those people paid. Filling seats is not much of a problem, yet filling them with high yielding fares is much more difficult.
 
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:36 am

An OS departure probably wouldn't affect EK as their passengers tend to be Western European bound while Austrian's are mainly VFR Eastern Europeans- as discussed before the Lauda/Austrian service operates more like a substitute JAT flight. OS has those destinations all to themselves and the market is price sensitive to a degree unless you want a messy LH itinerary involving 3 flight changes. The labor costs are what's killing the route and Lauda's crew pay was very low.

My bet is SIN will get axed (Lauda tried several times to make SIN work) and some SYD flights will extend to MEL, although my hunch is MEL will eventually get axed- if not the entire operation a la Air France/AOM, Alitalia, KLM, Lufthansa, Olympic.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 23):
My bet is SIN will get axed (Lauda tried several times to make SIN work) and some SYD flights will extend to MEL, although my hunch is MEL will eventually get axed

I agree with you, but I still fail to understand why Singapore would not work and Kuala Lumpur would. One would expect at least some support from fellow STAR Alliance partner SQ at SIN. But then again, OS has pretty good fares for both the SYD/MEL and VIE-Europe flights here in Indonesia and it uses Garuda Indonesia as its interline partner, although SQ is readily available.

I could see the OS Australia route revert to a VIE-KUL-SYD-MEL-KUL-VIE triangle for a while and ultimately expect MEL, if not the entire route to bite the dust. In these days of alliances and resulting code share agreements, it is very difficult to sustain a route like Europe-Australia without large amounts of high yielding traffic, something which OS is lacking considerably.
 
9252fly
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 22):
There is absolutely no relationship between the packed planes on the route and the yield situation of mentioned route! Everything depends on what kind of fares those people paid. Filling seats is not much of a problem, yet filling them with high yielding fares is much more difficult.

 checkmark   checkmark 
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HKGKaiTak
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 24):
I could see the OS Australia route revert to a VIE-KUL-SYD-MEL-KUL-VIE triangle for a while and ultimately expect MEL, if not the entire route to bite the dust. In these days of alliances and resulting code share agreements, it is very difficult to sustain a route like Europe-Australia without large amounts of high yielding traffic, something which OS is lacking considerably.

And high yielding traffic is not going to like so many stops on a triangle route. Even if you're flying VIE-SYD you'd be stopping once in one direction and twice in the other, and how many high yielding pax start/terminate their trip at VIE? So you have an extra stop as well.

It's little wonder the European airlines are pulling out and leaving it to the Asian carriers with one-stop connections in Asia.
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HB-IWC
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 26):
And high yielding traffic is not going to like so many stops on a triangle route. Even if you're flying VIE-SYD you'd be stopping once in one direction and twice in the other, and how many high yielding pax start/terminate their trip at VIE? So you have an extra stop as well.

Well, before the split up of the SYD and MEL flights, the route had been served as a KUL-SYD-MEL-KUL triangle for quite some time. But I agree that it is a commercially less interesting set up. On the other hand, I don't believe that OS can pride itself on the kind of premium traffic the likes of BA and QF are attracting on the Kangaroo route to start with. As said before, most of the traffic, even in the premium cabin, is lower yielding connecting traffic, mostly from Eastern European destinations. I'm sure that OS wouldn't lose that market by adding an extra stop.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:50 pm

I only wish that OS would come to Auckland. There are great connecting opportunities with star partner NZ. TG is at the moment opoular here because they are known as the 'cheap ones' who young people going on the classic O.E go to europe on. I believe OS has some sort of same reputation in oz, I only wish they would come here.

SYD will definately not be axed. If anything it will be increased. MEL I see gone in 6 months. Hopefully SYD will get all of the MEL flights making it 9 weekly. This will increase competitiveness. Also, at the moment OS is the only competition to MH on the KUL route, so I hope they do not pull out of this route for fear of higher fares being introduced by MH.

I feel that maybe OS should look at re-routing the SYD flight through HKT or BKK some days a week.

Maybe they could fly VIE-KUL-SYD-AKL! Although this is unlikely.
 
macc
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:06 pm

with their financial situation now, I am afraid, OS isnt strong enough to keep these routes alive. MH quit KUL-VIE and it will be interesting to see, if OS keeps KUL in their shedule. A code sharing down to SYD via KUL would make a lot of sense for both airlines.
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6thfreedom
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting Macc (Reply 29):
with their financial situation now, I am afraid, OS isnt strong enough to keep these routes alive. MH quit KUL-VIE and it will be interesting to see, if OS keeps KUL in their shedule. A code sharing down to SYD via KUL would make a lot of sense for both airlines.

As would a codeshare with TG...

TG serves 4 points in Australia, so OS could consider upping VIE-BKK frequency with a B777, then feeding on to Australia.

Having said that, I think the OS statement is VERY premature.

BA pulled out only 3 months ago. They left a huge gap for UK and SIN traffic (this was BA's stopover), as well as significant feed they use to attract from places like France, Italy and Germany.

I think OS would be crazy not to allow the sector to continue for another 12 months... crazy!
 
MAS777
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 24):
I agree with you, but I still fail to understand why Singapore would not work and Kuala Lumpur would. One would expect at least some support from fellow STAR Alliance partner SQ at SIN. But then again, OS has pretty good fares for both the SYD/MEL and VIE-Europe flights here in Indonesia and it uses Garuda Indonesia as its interline partner, although SQ is readily available.

I think you'd find that Star Alliance do not code-share that well on the Kangaroo route. MH/KL seem to have a great code-share as do BA/QF. I can't say Star Alliance does this route as well in terms of code-share - if anything they compete fiercely (eg. SQ/TG) on the route hence OS would do well to stay at KUL.

Quoting Macc (Reply 29):
MH quit KUL-VIE and it will be interesting to see, if OS keeps KUL in their shedule.

MAS withdrew the route as there was overcapacity with both carriers operating. It would be interesting to see if MH reintroduces VIE should OS go - but I think OS is quite happy to stay at KUL. If not - we would probably see LH increase their flights into KUL in its place.
 
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:15 pm

Most of MH's VIE pax were transiting to BEG/ZAG/Skopje etc. and now OS has that market with same carrier service. I think KUL was chosen for the stop as the cost was much lower than SIN. However, maybe 50 pax at most usually fly the KUL-SYD sector. Lauda tried SYD-MEL-BKK in the days of the 763 and also flew SYD-HKT-VIE with no traffic rights SYD-HKT (seats were sold to TG/QF).
 
beowulf
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:26 pm

LH pulled out of the Australia route a few years ago on the basis it not being profitable. The O&D market for Austria-Australia is even smaller than Germany-Australia, hence, you need to funnel passengers onwards which spoils your yields. Plus, the aircraft is away for such a long time and cannot be used for anything else. The crews are also costly.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 31):
I think you'd find that Star Alliance do not code-share that well on the Kangaroo route.

Lufthansa has a decent cooperation with both TG and SQ on the Kangaroo route, so I think it's a logical thing to ask why OS wouldn't be able to establish the same, either while serving Australia with their own metal or while doing so through some code share deal. Another option, yet a very bold one, might be to move the entire route from VIE to FRA in hopes of attracting a larger amount of higher yielding traffic through LH's FRA base.
 
VORFMD
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:45 pm

LH, NZ and MH are codesharing on the VIE-KUL-SYD Flights !
 
toptravel
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:34 pm

Hope it's not so, Qantas need all the competion they can get for the good of the travelling public.

Cheers
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting Toptravel (Reply 36):
Hope it's not so, Qantas need all the competion they can get for the good of the travelling public.

They already do in the form of all those Asian airlines with excellent frequencies and connections out of most Australian ports. I just don't know why ppl still have it in their heads that they need a European or an Australian airline to fly the Europe-Oz route or it is not a decent service ...
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LJ
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 15):
Quoting SA7700 (Reply 14):
Should we brace ourselves for a possible KL pull-out from JNB?

No, I would not think so. KL is making good money with the cargo on the 4 times weekly combi service. But on the passenger side, the yields are under pressure.

For CPT the same applies. Cargo is the moneymaker, the pax are just to add some revenue to the flight. Also not forget that KL still transports the diamonds heading to Antwerp and this is high yield cargo..

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 37):
They already do in the form of all those Asian airlines with excellent frequencies and connections out of most Australian ports.

Or a Middle Eastern airline.......
 
flyingKangaroo
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RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 21):
Errh, no. Flights to Europe from SYD and MEL total well over 100 widebodys, mainly 744's and 777's, every week (QF alone has 28, add to that a heaps of SQ, TG, MH, CX, BA, EK, VS, JL, ANA, KL and others) Many of these are twice daily from both SYD and MEL, connecting via their Asian or ME hubs to Europe. It's just there are fewer European carriers among them. Every major city in Europe is accessible with no more than one stop across this suite of carriers.

Yeah I know that, but I was refering to European based airlines serving Australia. Of course if you include all the connecting flights provided by Asian airlines and those in the Mid-East, you have almost endless options.

flyingKangaroo
QANTAS-- The Spirit of Australia
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:12 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 28):
I only wish that OS would come to Auckland. There are great connecting opportunities with star partner NZ. TG is at the moment opoular here because they are known as the 'cheap ones' who young people going on the classic O.E go to europe on. I believe OS has some sort of same reputation in oz, I only wish they would come here.

Well NZ do codeshare with OS to Vienna via KUL

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 28):
SYD will definately not be axed. If anything it will be increased. MEL I see gone in 6 months. Hopefully SYD will get all of the MEL flights making it 9 weekly. This will increase competitiveness. Also, at the moment OS is the only competition to MH on the KUL route, so I hope they do not pull out of this route for fear of higher fares being introduced by MH.

yes true. Only 2 airlines Serve KUL direct from SYD and OS does give MH a run for its money on the KUL-SYD route

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 28):
Maybe they could fly VIE-KUL-SYD-AKL! Although this is unlikely.

Once again i think they already have some type of codeshare agreement in place
 
DABTH
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:53 am

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:17 pm

Two questions beside...

When did LH actually pull out of Oz??

And did AF ever had scheduled service to SYD/MEL??

Thx for the answers...

Rgds David
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting DABTH (Reply 41):
And did AF ever had scheduled service to SYD/MEL??

I think they did in the early to mid ninties. At the moment they Codeshare with QF from SIN to SYD and QF codeshares with AF from SIN to CDG
 
boysteve
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Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:04 pm

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 37):
They already do in the form of all those Asian airlines with excellent frequencies and connections out of most Australian ports. I just don't know why ppl still have it in their heads that they need a European or an Australian airline to fly the Europe-Oz route or it is not a decent service ...

Exactly, my two choices for a trip to OZ (from MAN) remain SQ or EK with one stop for a change of plane and scenery at the same time. Having said that I hope that BA will continue to fly to SYD, I don't see why QF can operate 4 times daily from LHR and seem happy but yet BA can't. Something must be wrong somewhere. However by 2008 or 2009 QF will have a load of 787's to send places, how many of these will make there way across to Europe? maybe to CDG, MUC or replace the 744 out of FRA
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:20 pm

I think, as long as you have to make a stop at SIN, BKK or KUL instead of non-stop, a flight from Europe to Australia (and vice versa) will not be profitable for any airline including BA and QF. It is much cheaper to transfer your passengers to an alliance partner (e.g. LH, LX, OS to SQ or TG for Star or BA to QF for Oneworld) than to send your own metal Down Under and have many more crews and aircrafts stuck there instead of taking them home again. That is why almost any airline from Europe stopped the Aussie flights. For BA and QF it is simply prestige.
 
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BNE
Posts: 2921
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 9:37 pm

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:35 pm

I think Austrian need to drop Melbourne outright and retime OS1.
Here is the current schedule.

OS 1 VIE Vienna 10:55, arrive SYD Sydney 15:05+1 day(s) 1 stop 772 20h10min Daily except Monday
OS 1 Stops at KUL arrive 3:55am Depart 5:15am
OS 2 SYD Sydney 16:50, arrive VIE Vienna 6:10+1 day(s) 1 stop 772 21h20min Daily except Tuesday
OS 2 Stops at KUL arrive 23:15 Depart 0:35am

The early depart of OS1 from doesn't really give much time for connections without and overnight stay in Vienna, the arrival and departure time on OS 1 aren't really much help for anyone going only to KUL.
They should retime OS1 to depart about 3 hours later before Sydney curfew at 11:00pm.

OS 25 VIE Vienna, 23:25 arrive BKK Bangkok 14:45+1 days(s)
OS 26 BKK Bangkok 23:30 arrive VIE 5:25+1 days(s)

OS 7 VIE Vienna 10:40 arrive MEL Melbourne 14:55+1 day(s) 1 stop(s) 763
Monday Wednesday Friday
Stops at SIN 4:25am Depart 5:30am
OS 8 MEL Melbourne 16:40 arrive VIE Vienna 06:15+1 day(s) 763
Tuesday Thursday Saturday
Stops at SIN 22:30 Depart 23:35

OS7 should be cancelled outright unless they got a heap of Singapore bound passengers but with those bad arrival times I think they don't.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 37):
I just don't know why ppl still have it in their heads that they need a European or an Australian airline to fly the Europe-Oz route or it is not a decent service ...

Isn't it more of a general comment on QF losing market share to airlines with connections at intermediate stops, and not really about what constitutes a decent service?

Quoting ZRH (Reply 44):
For BA and QF it is simply prestige.

There's a large market for same plane UK (in particular) - Australia services, and also adequate demand in the front cabins to make direct services viable. Having said that, they're not for me because travelling so far in one go is my idea of hell....(I tried it twice and vowed......never again!)
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 46):
There's a large market for same plane UK (in particular) - Australia services, and also adequate demand in the front cabins to make direct services viable. Having said that, they're not for me because travelling so far in one go is my idea of hell....(I tried it twice and vowed......never again!)

I agree a non-stop flight which lasts more than 20 hours is hell unless you can afford flying first class. But I don't see much difference when you have to change plane in SIN or getting of the the aircraft and entering the same an hour later or so.
 
anstar
Posts: 2864
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 47):
I agree a non-stop flight which lasts more than 20 hours is hell unless you can afford flying first class. But I don't see much difference when you have to change plane in SIN or getting of the the aircraft and entering the same an hour later or so.

Excatly. Not sure why people on here go on about being on the same plane. It doesn;t make any difference to me
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: OS Considers Closing/reduction Of MEL + SYD

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 48):
Excatly. Not sure why people on here go on about being on the same plane. It doesn;t make any difference to me

Yes that is what I meant. I think it is even more interesting to have an other aircraft. For example from here, taking a Swiss A 340 to SIN then change to a SQ 744 to SYD. When the alliance partners coordinate their flights you won't lose time. There is no difference to get of an aircraft and enter another which leaves an hour later or to get of an aircraft and to enter the same an hour later.

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