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PanAm_DC10
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ILFC Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:56 pm

ILFC have announced the following orders have been placed with Boeing

6 x 737-800s
2 x 777-300ERs
2 x 787 Option conversions

Source: Boeing and ILFC http://www.boeing.com

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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DLPMMM
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:31 pm

PanAm,

Your link does not lead to any confirmation of an order by ILFC, and I cannot find a related press release on the Farnborough web site.

Not that I doubt you, but can you recheck your source and see if you can post a confirmation link?

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:38 pm

A small- to medium size order.
Congrats Boeing, this year order book is already at 500 orders. Very good indeed. Maybe we can surpass the 1002 mark?
 
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:38 pm

FARNBOROUGH, England, July 19 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA) and International Lease Finance Corp. (ILFC) today announced an order for six 737-800s, two 777-300ERs and two 787 Dreamliners. The aircraft covered in today's announcement are option exercises by ILFC valued at approximately $1.2 billion at list prices. Deliveries of the 737s and the 777s begin in the first quarter of 2009 and the 787 deliveries begin in early 2012.

The source is the same http://www.boeing.com or you can try PRNewswire.com too. Sometimes it takes a little for Boeings site to update

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:42 pm

"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:47 pm

Thanks PanAm,

The Boeing website has still not updated (perhaps they are being slow on purpose to avoid another QR type of fiasco). I would suggest using the PRNewswire or Reuters link in your posts rather than the Boeing link until Boeing actually puts the news on their site (just a friendly suggestion as others on this site get very excited over trivial matters).

Good quick pick-up on the news release by you.

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:47 pm

From WSJ 07/19/06 (Fair Use Excerpt):

...Steven Udvar-Hazy, chairman and chief executive of ILFC, said the company will use the aircraft to "top up" current inventories of Boeing aircraft. He said ILFC hasn't decided whether the new 787 order will be for the 787-8 or the 787-9 model.

The ILFC executive said at a press conference that "this is further evidence that the Boeing product line is what airlines are looking for." He said demand for the Boeing passenger aircraft has increased in the last one to one and a half years.

Currently, ILFC owns a fleet of 300 large, wide-bodied aircraft.

Udvar-Hazy said the delay by Airbus in introducing a new A350 will give both Boeing and Airbus some time to get their new products right. He said ILFC doesn't plan to cancel its existing order with Airbus...


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20060719-704300.html
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:01 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 7):
He said ILFC hasn't decided whether the new 787 order will be for the 787-8 or the 787-9 model.

Note delivery is for 2012 so that could imply the 787-9 and given it's 2 it may well be for AirNZ. Mr Udvar-Hazy also stated the 787 order is a "top-off" order which now meets their current requirements.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 6):
Thanks PanAm,

You're welcome sir

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:10 pm

Looking nice for Boeing and ILFC.

The 777's are 1st qt. 2009... who to?
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 8):
Note delivery is for 2012 so that could imply the 787-9 and given it's 2 it may well be for AirNZ. Mr Udvar-Hazy also stated the 787 order is a "top-off" order which now meets their current requirements.

ILFC recently stated they were going with GEnX engines on these birds I thought - didn't ANZ order RRs on theirs??

Things that make you go hmmm
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 10):
ILFC recently stated they were going with GEnX engines on these birds I thought - didn't ANZ order RRs on theirs??

Things that make you go hmmm

Actually they announced RR Trent-1000 orders for all firmed 787 orders on Monday. Then yesterday they announced GEnx orders to cover up to 22 B787s in addition to GE90s to power up to either 6 x 77L or 6 x 77W.

Most definately things that make you go hmmm  Wink

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
The 777's are 1st qt. 2009... who to?

I do not know. However, Mr Udvar-Hazy stated at the media conference that they will announce whom they have placed their 787s with over the coming weeks. They have currently announced the following;

2 x 788 for Air Seychelles plus 2 Options
3 x 788 for Aeromexico

That leaves 17 to be announced by ILFC over the coming weeks. Another thread has reported that Flyglobespan will take 2 on lease from them for 2010 delivery and AM are reported to be interested in increasing their commitment to 5 from the current 3.

I guess we don't have too long to wait to find out.

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:50 pm

I was wondering if IFLC or GE capital would order a few B763ERs to help relieve the shortage of B767 on the leasing market. But I guess the leasing price for a brand new 67 wouldn't be that attractive to airlines.

slightly off-topic question.

Do leasing companies like IFLC only order aircraft once a lease as been secured with a customer like NZ? Is there situations were new a aircraft is delivered to a leasing firm but no customers have been secured. It's hard for me to imagine a hanger full of brand new heavies just waiting to be leased.

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 3):
A small- to medium size order.

I think once you cross that billion dollar mark, small can be left out of the sentence.  twocents 

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
2 x 788 for Air Seychelles plus 2 Options
3 x 788 for Aeromexico

A little off topic, but how will those planes be maintained? It would seem that it would not be efficient for these airlines to maintain such a small number of such a unique aircraft.
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 12):
Do leasing companies like IFLC only order aircraft once a lease as been secured with a customer like NZ? Is there situations were new a aircraft is delivered to a leasing firm but no customers have been secured.

KrisYYZ that is a good question and it basically depends upon the leasing company but they usually do have the frames placed though if a model is popular they'll buy them without having placed them. As you can see from Mr Udvar-Hazys' comment this was a top up order and all have been placed yet yesterday Pegasus ordered 6 of which only 4 were placed with Blue Panorama leaving 2 yet to be placed, publicly. So it's a bit of both, RBC Aviation Capital bought 40 A320s and B737s last year without having placed a single frame yet due to demand they are rapidly placing them.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 13):
but how will those planes be maintained?

These carriers operate small fleets of 767s and 777s (maybe not AM!) also from ILFC and they have maintenance and service agreements written into the contracts which takes care of that issue.

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 14):
KrisYYZ that is a good question and it basically depends upon the leasing company but they usually do have the frames placed though if a model is popular they'll buy them without having placed them. As you can see from Mr Udvar-Hazys' comment this was a top up order and all have been placed yet yesterday Pegasus ordered 6 of which only 4 were placed with Blue Panorama leaving 2 yet to be placed, publicly. So it's a bit of both, RBC Aviation Capital bought 40 A320s and B737s last year without having placed a single frame yet due to demand they are rapidly placing them.

Doesn't ILFC still have an "open" situation with its A380's? ie.-ordered the planes but no customers as of yet?
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
Doesn't ILFC still have an "open" situation with its A380's? ie.-ordered the planes but no customers as of yet?

I think some of ILFC's A380s are for EK.
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 16):
I think some of ILFC's A380s are for EK.

thanks for the info.. Smile

hmmm...didn't know that.. sratchchin ...how many are for EK and how many more leasing slots are open?
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 14):
Aviation Capital bought 40 A320s and B737s last year without having placed a single frame yet due to demand they are rapidly placing them.

Thanks for the info!

It's intresting to see how some airlines buy and also lease the same types. AC for example bought 4 B773ERs and leased 1, althought I bet that was due more to delievey spots and the need for capacity.

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:16 am

It wouldn't surprise me if the 2x B787s are for NZ from the info I've been getting
 
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 12):
Do leasing companies like IFLC only order aircraft once a lease as been secured with a customer like NZ? Is there situations were new a aircraft is delivered to a leasing firm but no customers have been secured. It's hard for me to imagine a hanger full of brand new heavies just waiting to be leased.

It happens all of the time, it's a speculative order. Leasing companies do this based on their market forecasts, for a leasing company it is an asset play and if they believe they can move the unit out the door they'll order it (at the right price).

Lessor also usually have a good lead time between placing the order and accepting delivery, that time is used to market the aircraft. For the most part new aircraft very rarely end up sitting in a hangar, the lessor will almost always bite the bullet and lower the price.
 
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:43 am

Thanks for the good info PanAm_DC10 (as always).

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
Actually they announced RR Trent-1000 orders for all firmed 787 orders on Monday. Then yesterday they announced GEnx orders to cover up to 22 B787s in addition to GE90s to power up to either 6 x 77L or 6 x 77W.

Most definately things that make you go hmmm

Actually, with the relative ease of switching between the two engines/nacelles, I see no reason not to buy to meet customer preference and then swap later for another customer (the used engines will maintain some resale value).

Oh, I've read a little more about the nacelles and see BF goodrich is "developing them in parallel" to account for the different diameters, gear box locations, etc. I wonder how many common parts they share. Does anyone have a link?

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
Actually they announced RR Trent-1000 orders for all firmed 787 orders on Monday.

Are you sure? According to the following releases, it is Trents for 20 firmed and optioned 787s, and GEnxs for 24 firmed and optioned 787s:

http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40362
http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscenter/genx/genx_20060718.html

Do you know what the actual breakdown of RR and GE for the firm aircraft is?

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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 13):

A little off topic, but how will those planes be maintained? It would seem that it would not be efficient for these airlines to maintain such a small number of such a unique aircraft.

I know Boeing is offer a program where they handle the maintanance on 787, and I'm sure they can find some outside contractors or other airlines to do their work for them.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 16):
I think some of ILFC's A380s are for EK.

Very clever on EK's part.
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
Actually they announced RR Trent-1000 orders for all firmed 787 orders on Monday. Then yesterday they announced GEnx orders to cover up to 22 B787s in addition to GE90s to power up to either 6 x 77L or 6 x 77W.

Most definately things that make you go hmmm

Well, another interesting tidbit, altho definitely a rumor at this point, is Delta is looking to acquire additional/future long-haul a/c. They're in bed with GECAS as we all know, love their GE engines on their long-haul 767s and rumor has it are going to announce the future long-haul/widebody platform toward the end of the summer...
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RE: Ilfc Order Boeing 738s, 773ERs & 787s

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 22):
Are you sure? According to the following releases, it is Trents for 20 firmed and optioned 787s, and GEnxs for 24 firmed and optioned 787s:

I believe so. After this announcement ILFC have 22 firm and 2 Options so that covers the 24 which GECAS refer to and also what RR refer to even though they only stated the 20 firm which ILFC had publicly stated on Monday. In my opinion ILFC are taking full advantage of

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 21):
the relative ease of switching between the two engines/nacelles, I see no reason not to buy to meet customer preference and then swap later for another customer (the used engines will maintain some resale value).

what Lightsaber has referred to and have ordered as such.

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 22):
Do you know what the actual breakdown of RR and GE for the firm aircraft is?

In reference to the carriers which they have already placed them with, no. Now they have made their engine orders when they announce the leases over coming weeks they should announce which engine the respective carrier has chosen. In my opinion, despite what Mr Udvar-Hazy publicly stated, I believe that ILFC will order more 787s before year end and not just the exercise of the remaining 2 options.

At this point they have now ordered enough GE & RR firm to power double the amount of frames they have ordered.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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