darrenthe747
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KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:28 pm

I looked at this and thought, holy crap. that thing is LOW. it looks as if he's going to make contact with the overrun area. this obviously isn't normal... is it common for airliners to miss the TDZ like this? can you imagine what it would have been like to be on the beach for that??



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wedgetail737
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:37 pm

Yeah...extremely noisy and windy! LOL!
 
darrenthe747
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:46 pm

that guy down there right by the fence is probably the luckiest plane spotter to ever live. i'm so jealous Sad
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
bhxdtw
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:51 pm

Anyone know why the NWA/KL alliance sticker has been taken off by the upper deck windows ?

Joe
 
thaigold
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:53 pm

Gday

That is VERY low....

Like Darrenthe747 I am very jealous too...... Must have been great - but also quite scary. However a great story to tell your fellow A.netters.

Thaigold
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Alitalia744
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:28 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 3):
Anyone know why the NWA/KL alliance sticker has been taken off by the upper deck windows ?

Joe

Because it's no longer about that, but now about SkyTeam
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Lionel
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:30 pm

Its really impressive and very scary for the guys at the fence!
 
lailaiyyz
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:38 pm

That reminds me of the movie "Pushing Tin" where the two ATCs stood at the threshold and experience the wake turbulance..

I guess the spotters in the pictures are even closer than the two ATCs in the movie!

lailaiYYZ
 
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Aaron747
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:42 pm

What an absolutely botched approach. That's some rather poor technique on display there folks.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
swissy
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:54 pm

Quoting Thaigold (Reply 4):
Like Darrenthe747 I am very jealous too...... Must have been great - but also quite scary. However a great story to tell your fellow A.netters.

Agree 100%, I was jealous too before I had a chance to go to SXM, have been back 3 times and it is still a blast drink a good beer and sh.. your pants
hanging on to the fence.................


:D Big grin Big grin

Cheers,
 
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LTU932
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:07 pm

Damn, I wish was there to see it. Anyway, from the looks of it, either it landed right on the threshold or on the displaced threshold area. My guess is they weren't higher than 50 ft at that stage.
 
KLMA330
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:55 pm

I'm checkin on Expedia right now for last minute deals to St Maarten! LOL

Billy.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:23 am

Chances are the pilot was talked into this by the 1st Officer since he likely spotted a "TEN" Bikini Babe and wanted the closest possible look!  bigthumbsup   cutie   drool   eyepopping   hypnotized   laughing   knockout   rotfl 
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planesarecool
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:39 am

There are some better pictures on jetphotos.net, that show exactly how low it was. See "top two of last week" on the home page, and you'll see that it's actually pretty close to the fence.
 
planeboy
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:34 am

May be it was full of crazy A.netters trying from their aisle seat to peep down into the beach a bit too much leading to sudden increase in the mass of the plane  Wink
 
PADSpot
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting Darrenthe747 (Thread starter):
t looks as if he's going to make contact with the overrun area.

I suppose in this case it's more kind of a UNDERRUN area.
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:53 am

Wow, terrible terrible botched approach. I couldn't imagine what the people on the beach are thinking.
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StevenG
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Thaigold (Reply 4):
Like Darrenthe747 I am very jealous too...... Must have been great - but also quite scary. However a great story to tell your fellow A.netters.

Sure, but would he still be able to hear them talking? I guess his eardrums must be somewhere in the sea or on the beach. At least it doesn't look very healthy to be there that close.
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:36 am

Did it want to sunbathe? No it wanted to get its feet wet! A very old Dutch custom called pootje baaien  Cool
I can tell you this photo has been going around on KL's employee email a lot since yesterday!
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jumbojet
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:48 am

there's one shot on Jetphotos that show the main gear inches from the ground while a good portion of the plane is still over the road and beach. Thats what I call *ucking impressive!!! i Dont think he couldve made that landing any lower!!
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting Jumbojet:
Dont think he couldve made that landing any lower!!

Well I remember a Flight Level 350 video showing a Falcon just missing clipping the fence at SXM.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:04 am

Isn't it a runway overshoot ? If so, why didn't the pilot ask for a go around ?! I'm sure that water, sand and umbrellas behind went thrown all ways  Wink
 
jumbojet
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 22):
Quoting Jumbojet:
Dont think he couldve made that landing any lower!!

Well I remember a Flight Level 350 video showing a Falcon just missing clipping the fence at SXM.

i shouldve been more specific, meaning a plane of that size!!  Smile
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting TS-IOR:
If so, why didn't the pilot ask for a go around?

I would have to guess his perspective. Most likely up until the very end he believed he was on the visual glide slope until the ground. And because he was flaring and most likely didn't realize where the plane's back was in comparison to the ground he botched that. In one sense it happened due to him not looking at where the tire marks are for the runway. It's seldom mistake that you would find a student pilot making, not a Captain or F/O of a huge jumbo jet.
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birdbrainz
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
What an absolutely botched approach. That's some rather poor technique on display there folks.

I'm not sure I'd call it botched, as I think it was intentional. The pilots knew the runway was short, and wanted every inch of it for stopping. I wonder if they had some other reason for landing that way. It's possible that they mis-judged how low they were, which is not unusual for 747 pilots.

If not, I agree that it's poor technique and at very high risk of hitting something. If I were KLM's chief pilot, I wouldn't be too pleased.

It it very dramatic, though. Probably a couple of ex-fighter jocks in the cockpit.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
traineepilot
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 25):
It's seldom mistake that you would find a student pilot making, not a Captain or F/O of a huge jumbo jet.

Don't take this the wrong way because im a student pilot myself. SXM has no ILS (correct me if im wrong) so obviously would be a visual approach with assistance from the PAPI (if installed). I fly a Robin HR120/200B and even in the thing, knowing where the back end is, or how close to the ground it is, is very hard, even worse in a 747. Now, it looks like it was misty in the picture, so visually seeing the runway would not be possible until a lower altitude is reached, so in all due respect, i think the pilot did a good job! (Feel free to correct anything I have said if I am mistaken).
 
Boeing747_600
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:26 am

Darrenthe747,

did you actually see the landing gear hit the tarmac before the TDZ? The reason I ask is that in the photo you took (a marvellous one by the way!) the aircraft seems to be airborne at 6 to 10 feet AGL, if I were to hazard a guess.

However, in the picture on the competitors site, it looks like the rubber is just about to hit the asphalt!!! I dont know if that's due to an illusion or not.

Anyway, the TDZ is only about 100 feet ahead at the point the pictures were taken, so if the aircraft is at least 4 to 6 feet AGL in the pictures, then its quite possible that with the sink rate arrested by the flare and the ground effect, the aircraft would have actually hit the tarmac at, or just ahead of the TDZ, rendering the situation a tad less dangerous than it would seem at first blush.

Comments?
 
Tom in NO
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:27 am

On a related SXM topic, enjoy the linked video:

http://www.break.com/index/plane_blows_beach_away.html

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
JakeOrion
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 29):

No matter how many times I've seen it, that video is always freaking hilarious.

Think the pilots were practicing NOE (Nap Of Earth) from their old helo days?
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
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glideslope
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 28):
Anyway, the TDZ is only about 100 feet ahead at the point the pictures were taken, so if the aircraft is at least 4 to 6 feet AGL in the pictures, then its quite possible that with the sink rate arrested by the flare and the ground effect, the aircraft would have actually hit the tarmac at, or just ahead of the TDZ, rendering the situation a tad less dangerous than it would seem at first blush.

Agreed. Also seems to be a fairly stiff head wind if you look at the Palms. IMO, they hit 20' ahead of TDZ.  Smile
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
SLUAviator
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:32 am

Do you think someone went out and checked the blast pad for damage? Blast pads are only available to be used as rollout areas and are not available for taxi, takeoff or landing. They are not strong enough to support the weight or associated forces of the planes.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
zruda
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:34 am

I call this a low approach  Smile
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swissy
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 18):
A.net have a very petty rule about linking to "competitor sites"

OK guys a.net has no competition..... only victims!!! so no reason for a delete.....

Absolutely great landing, everyone which experienced SXM will agree, do not judge just based on what you see, be there feel it (pain)!!!! with a Heineken in your hand and call your self a total A. nutter....................

Cheers my friends
 bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 
 
Boeing747_600
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Zruda (Reply 33):
call this a low approach

Nice winglets on the babe!  Smile  bouncy 
 
theunclesam
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Zruda (Reply 32):
I call this a low approach

I thought it was a topless beach?  Big grin

On topic, that is pretty low. Sure wish I were standing next to that fence..
"So what's your robot do?" "Collects data about the surrounding enviroment. Then drives into walls."
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:02 am

[quote=Zruda,reply=32]

Is that KL on approach?
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
meister808
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Zruda (Reply 32):
I call this a low approach

I think somebody needs to get on the horn to KL and let em know they got a landing light out  Cool

-Meister
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beertrucker
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:02 am

Fly HI
 
twal1011727
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 22):
Isn't it a runway overshoot ? If so, why didn't the pilot ask for a go around

BTW....the pilot doesn't have to ask for a go-around. He just does it.
Being this is a "relatively" short runway, he wanted to get every inch possible;however, he mis-judged short it a little too much.

Its gonna be memorable the first time one of these birds hit the beach and wipe somebody out. Then the party is over and all the people out there will say " what were the airport operators thinking." - while the dead peoples relatives and injured go to get their lawyers.

I agree this is and will be an amazing place to watch airplanes land, but one of these days............

KD MLB
 
golftango
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:09 am

I have some photos of SXM from my 6/3 trip.

My SXM Photos

This one was especially low:

http://members.cox.net/golftango/maa14.jpg

[Edited 2006-07-20 03:10:32]
 
Gilligan
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:18 am

I thought the overrun area was not built to support the shock of a landing aircraft.
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LTU932
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting Golftango (Reply 39):
This one was especially low

That is nothing compared to this:

 
sonic67
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:23 am

WOW that a plane spotter dream. But I can't help thinking of the movie Pushing Tin staring JOHN CUSACK and BILLY BOB THORNTON where they sneak on to the runway and are lifted and thrown from the turbulence of a 747. Would this acutely happen if you got close enough to the landing path of or is just another Hollywood spoof?
 
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LTU932
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting Sonic67 (Reply 42):
Would this acutely happen if you got close enough to the landing path of or is just another Hollywood spoof?

If they get close enough, probably, but then again, an aeroplane isn't using all of its thrust during landing. The scene in Pushing Tin might be a bit spoofed.

Now, if the engines would go to full power and you're close enough, then yes. Now that I think of it though, imagine the same thing but with a 777-300ER. That would be fun and priceless.  bigthumbsup 
 
zotan
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 43):
Now, if the engines would go to full power and you're close enough, then yes. Now that I think of it though, imagine the same thing but with a 777-300ER. That would be fun and priceless. bigthumbsup

If you even survived it. The wind is blowing around 300 miles an hour with the engines at full power. You have debris flying all over the place too. Take a Cat5 hurricane and double its force. Now, put yourself in the middle. Real fun ....
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
What an absolutely botched approach. That's some rather poor technique on display there folks.

Either that, or he's a freakin skilled pilot. I've been told that larger a/c goining into SXM land as far forward as possible due to the short runway length. However, one would think he would not land on the stopway  Wink
 
BryanG
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:01 pm

The KLM photo might have a bit of optical illusion. If the pilot were a few feet left of centerline, the picture would make him appear 10 or 15 feet lower than he actually was. With no shadow, it's hard to tell. Either way, he's VERY low, even for SXM.
 
sonic67
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:15 pm

Excuse me is this spot taken? Big grin


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jsposaune
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting Birdbrainz (Reply 24):
I'm not sure I'd call it botched, as I think it was intentional. The pilots knew the runway was short, and wanted every inch of it for stopping.

While it was quite low, I would agree with the above statement. It looks to me like the runway surface was wet, too. Combine that with the short runway, and these guys wanted every inch to stop under less than ideal braking conditions.

Just my $.02
There are no stupid questions....only stupid people!!!
 
Jonno
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RE: KLM 744 Wants To Sunbathe On Maho Beach

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:41 pm

The pilot heard someone on the beach say Air France was gonna cut his salary and he zoomed in lower to see if he heard it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  covereyes   covereyes   covereyes   covereyes   covereyes   covereyes   covereyes   covereyes