ContinentalGuy
Topic Author
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First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:03 pm

Do any planes have First Class at the back of the cabin?
 
SapphireLHR
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:17 pm

WHAT !!....it would mean they would HAVE to get on first !!!
AND.... have to leave the bar and lounges more than ten minutes before the gate closes
AND... the poor luvvies would have to walk all that way !!
AND... to have to pass all of us ordinary folk

Good grief......and what if they had to queue for a toilet !!!!!

I,m coming over all faint..........
 
ceo@afg
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:18 pm

ATR's have this feature.
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." Steven McCroskey, Airplane!
 
DLKAPA
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:51 pm

Probably not unless they plan on boarding through the rear at every station they visit.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Aeri28
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:52 pm

the noise issue probably comes into play as well. The front of the plane is usually much quieter than the rear.
 
PanHAM
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:06 pm

IIRC the Vanguards had the First Cabin in the rear of the aircraft, at least on BEA.

Would be impractical in these days with airbridge boarding, especially on de-planing. Just imagine, everybody in Y has to sit tight until the first passengers are through.  crowded 
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Pulkovokiwi
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:13 pm

I flew on a DC7 of Pan Am which had First Class in the rear L 188 Electras did too. Those were the days.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
jrebel
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:24 pm

I recall flying first class on an Interflug Ilyushin 18. The cabin was in the back of the aircraft. Had the egalitarian communists been true to their principles, they would of course had a one-class cabin!

Johan
 
carduelis
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:54 pm

Part of my years as BOAC Air Cabin Crew were spent in working First Class on Bristol Britannia 102 aircraft in 1961 and 1962.

Being a propeller aircraft the cabin was at the rear of the aircraft and very quiet. We normally carried around 16 pax, but on occasions this increased to 24 on the routes to the Middle East and Gulf.

There were two F/C toilet areas on the aircraft - two seats for the ladies, and one for gentlemen, plus a stand-up urinal in the gents section.

Embarking and disembarking was always done by a separate set of steps at the rear.

Yes, those were the days! Cabin Crew today will never know, or even be able to emulate, the product and cabin service of the early 60s.

The majority of BA's Britannias were sold to a new charter airline at the time called Britannia Airways.
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
7LBAC111
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:58 pm

This was kind of discussed here http://www.airliners.net/discussions...ion/read.main/2863070/6/#ID2863070 though is more to do with the location of F or J on a prop.

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
centrair
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RE: First Class At The Back

Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:00 pm

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 4):
the noise issue probably comes into play as well. The front of the plane is usually much quieter than the rear.

True, but the mountains are up front.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
GAIsweetGAI
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:28 am

I'm writing all this from memory- please correct me if I'm wrong.
Back in the prop days, the 1st class was at the back of the plane because it was quieter and more comfortable, more space was available.
The early 707s had the 1st class at the rear end of the plane- the cabin layout was essentially the same as in a prop plane. Then someone/some people (anyone know who?) noticed that it was quieter at the front end of the plane, in front of the engines, than at the back, where you could hear the jetblast better. So the cabin layout was changed to more or less what we see today.
I have no idea if it has to do anything with comfort- turbulence/vibration related.
"There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
 
rpaillard
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting SapphireLHR (Reply 1):
AND... to have to pass all of us ordinary folk

That's probably the worth in your list Big grin
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
rpaillard
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:39 am

oups! too late to edit.

Try again :

That's probably the worst in your list
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
Jonno
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting SapphireLHR (Reply 1):

You know, it's funny. I have noticed that, uniformly, First and C Class passengers are quieter and better behaved than Y Class passengers. It's Y Class passengers who push, shove, and generally make complete pratts of themselves. I sense a treacly jealousy in your post. I fly First or not at all. No, I'm not sensationally wealthy, I just know that I want my air journey to be as smooth and comfortable as my holiday. So, next time you stick yer spear into the pot w/what I consider to be an inappropriate and somewhat uncalled for comment, check out the First and C Class fares. They're not THAT much more than Y.
 conehead 
 
katekebo
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:22 am

Propeller driven airplanes (piston engine and turboprops) used to have first class cabins in the back, because it was much quieter there. Boarding was not an issue because it was before jetways were invented, and boarding was made via stair from the back of the airplane, sometimes both back and front.
 
ikramerica
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:39 am

The Queen Mary had First Class in the middle...

Whoops, wrong forum...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ualcsr
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:37 am

I flew a Czech Airlines prop plane from MUC-PRG around 2000. I was flying stand-by and was given seat 2D at the gate; I though, how nice, they've given me first class. Turns out first class was at the rear.
 
AR385
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting Jonno (Reply 14):
You know, it's funny. I have noticed that, uniformly, First and C Class passengers are quieter and better behaved than Y Class passengers.

I recall that it was an executive in an AA flight flying on F to Europe that decided to join the mile high club. When discovered and forbidden to, he proceeded to shit on the meal cart. There will always be assholes in F, C, or Y

Quoting Jonno (Reply 14):
They're not THAT much more than Y.

I hope you are being sarcastic.
 
Amazonphil
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 6):
I flew on a DC7 of Pan Am which had First Class in the rear L 188 Electras did too. Those were the days.

Pretty much away from all the prop noise and engine vibrations from being up front. The rear of these planes are a good way back from the wing by design as the wing is postioned more toward the front of the fuselage. Flew on all the DCs, Connies, Viscounts and Electras myself as well in S. America with various carriers. And I remember the noise up toward the front! BUT, those were the days, as you mentioned....loved those birds!

amazonphil
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
 
AR385
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:37 pm

For some time TWA moved its first class on its L-1011's and B-747's to the middle (or close) from the aircraft. This, they said, so passengers, especially in the 747 would get the sensation of more space.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:37 pm

To be honest, I always liked the seat arrangements that Southwest used to have in some of its older 737's. In the back, right by the galley, were a couple of rows facing each other with a divider between them and the rest of the plane. I used to fly back there with some friends, have cocktails and chat with the flight attendants. I didn't notice much noise, and it all seemed more private for some reason. I don't see why having first in the back wouldn't seem more exclusive and thus a better idea.
 
jrebel
Posts: 169
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting Usdcaguy (Reply 21):
a couple of rows facing each other with a divider between

KL used to have a separate little lounge at the front of the Royal Class cabin on their DC8-63s. 2 x 2 seats with a table between them. First class pax, especially families, would be invited to have dinner there.

Johan
 
noelg
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 18):
There will always be assholes in F, C, or Y

 thumbsup 

We were queuing down the jetbridge for a recent flight from SIN to MAN via ZRH.

At SIN, the airbridges split into two so the business class passengers can have their own entrance. As we stood in the queue, we heard a posh English voice approaching from behind.

”Excuse me!”
“Out of my way please I’m business class!”
“Come on, please move out of my way.”
“Move please I’m business class”.

I turned around to see a guy wearing a suit followed by a couple of others pushing (and I mean pushing) their way through the queue to get to their entrance. They were actually rude enough to grab people on the shoulders and push them out of the way. He got to me and said “Please move I’m business class”. I stood their and turned round. In a moment of total spontaneity, I stood in front of him and said loud enough for the queue to hear “Oh I’m ever so sorry, I didn’t realise having a business class ticket gave you a license to be rude and abusive to the other passengers”. The look I received in return was worth it alone and could have turned milk to cheese. I had obviously hit the nail on the head as he simply turned and walked on. I felt much better after that  Smile

We just thought "What ignorant idiots", it certainly doesn't make you think any better of them.
 
A340600
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting SapphireLHR (Reply 1):
WHAT !!....it would mean they would HAVE to get on first !!!
AND.... have to leave the bar and lounges more than ten minutes before the gate closes
AND... the poor luvvies would have to walk all that way !!
AND... to have to pass all of us ordinary folk

Good grief......and what if they had to queue for a toilet !!!!!

I,m coming over all faint..........

Get over it, if you had the money you would happily fly around in F. There are equal assholes in all classes,

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
isitsafenow
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 11):
please correct me if I'm wrong.

The early 707's and DC-8's had F up front because it was quieter there.
The props and turboprops(L188) that had F had Y up front because it was quieter in the back.....some above posts point this out. I am just backing them up.
Also I rode F and Y on connies, 6B, Electras, early and late 707's,etc
........one of those "been there-done that" things...........
 angel 
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
ozglobal
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RE: First Class At The Back

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:08 pm

I flew on a BA prop from Dusseldorf to LGW in 2001 and Club Europe was situated at the back for the reasons already outlined: quieter and closest to rear entry.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
boysteve
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RE: First Class At The Back

Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 18):
I recall that it was an executive in an AA flight flying on F to Europe that decided to join the mile high club. When discovered and forbidden to, he proceeded to shit on the meal cart. There will always be assholes in F, C, or Y

Haha, that made me laugh, although I obviously feel for the F/A that had to sort it out. Hopefully they were banned from flying AA in future.

Quoting Jonno (Reply 14):
They're not THAT much more than Y

What? Are you serious? OK maybe a full price, fully flexible, purchased at short notice Y class ticket but not one of the ones I usually fly on for pleasure. My last 2 long haul trips for holiday were MAN-JFK for ~£360 (BA) and MAN-SYD for £700 (SQ). Show me a C ticket for 'not THAT much more' and I'll buy it!
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: First Class At The Back

Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:19 am

Perhaps somebody can confirm. I believe that Thai Airways DC-10's had Business Class up front, and First Class in the middle.

Also, before my time, but I'm certain that First Class on Air Canada's Viscounts was located at the rear.
Above and Beyond
 
swissy
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RE: First Class At The Back

Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 28):
Perhaps somebody can confirm. I believe that Thai Airways DC-10's had Business Class up front, and First Class in the middle.

When I flew them back in the early 90's they had F up front, C and than E class.

Quoting Carduelis (Reply 8):
Part of my years as BOAC Air Cabin Crew were spent in working First Class on Bristol Britannia 102 aircraft in 1961 and 1962.

Being a propeller aircraft the cabin was at the rear of the aircraft and very quiet. We normally carried around 16 pax, but on occasions this increased to 24 on the routes to the Middle East and Gulf.

There were two F/C toilet areas on the aircraft - two seats for the ladies, and one for gentlemen, plus a stand-up urinal in the gents section.

Embarking and disembarking was always done by a separate set of steps at the rear.

Yes, those were the days! Cabin Crew today will never know, or even be able to emulate, the product and cabin service of the early 60s.

I wish I could have experienced that time period of air travel as I am talking a lot to my paps in law about that time as is moved to Canada from Germany right after the war and he flew many times in the mid 50's early 60's from YYZ
to AMS with these beautiful plains and based on that I agree 100% these were the days............

Cheers,
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: First Class At The Back

Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 11):
I'm writing all this from memory- please correct me if I'm wrong.
Back in the prop days, the 1st class was at the back of the plane because it was quieter and more comfortable, more space was available.

That's true.....my dad tells me that the AI Super Connies, way back in the 50's and early 60's, had the First Class at the back.....

Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 11):
The early 707s had the 1st class at the rear end of the plane- the cabin layout was essentially the same as in a prop plane.

AI was one of the earliest Asian airlines to go for the 707 (in 1960 or 61) and the First cabin was up front right from day one.... smile 
 
Vanguard
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RE: First Class At The Back

Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 9):
plus a stand-up urinal in the gents section.

OT I know..... This is not a subject I've really given much thought about, but is this (about sanitation on a Britannia) true? Multiple urinals save space and increase turnover over the same number of WCs, but why a single urinal? Less water usage per flush perhaps?
 
carduelis
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RE: First Class At The Back

Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:08 pm

The urinal quote was actually mine - Reply 8, not 9 - Why only one? Space obviously, and postioned there just in case some other gentleman was using the WC!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
vfw614
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RE: First Class At The Back

Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 17):
I flew a Czech Airlines prop plane from MUC-PRG around 2000. I was flying stand-by and was given seat 2D at the gate; I though, how nice, they've given me first class. Turns out first class was at the rear.



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 26):
I flew on a BA prop from Dusseldorf to LGW in 2001 and Club Europe was situated at the back for the reasons already outlined: quieter and closest to rear entry.

In both cases, you were on an ATR. However, it has nothing to do with the noise but with the fact that most ATRs have the passenger entrance at the rear of the cabin, thus allowing those in the rear to get off the plane first. In all other props I am aware of, the business class cabin is in the front (Dash 8, Fokker 50, Saab), so it has nothing to do with the noise but with the location of the door.

As we are just at it, I seem to remember that a while ago I boarded an ATR42/72 through a door in front of the cabin - is that an option for customers to have the door relocated ?
 
Tod
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RE: First Class At The Back

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 11):
Back in the prop days, the 1st class was at the back of the plane

Like this?


Big version: Width: 2811 Height: 2187 File size: 420kb


Tod
 
Vanguard
Posts: 109
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RE: First Class At The Back

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Carduelis (Reply 32):
The urinal quote was actually mine - Reply 8, not 9


Ah ha! I had clicked on the 'quote highlighted text' _below_ and not above!

My point is that I have never heard of urinals on any aircraft! Presumably there are reasons why they aren't in use now. Might lessen some of the queues if Gents had their own.......
 
NASBWI
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RE: First Class At The Back

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 33):
I seem to remember that a while ago I boarded an ATR42/72 through a door in front of the cabin - is that an option for customers to have the door relocated ?

I don't know if it was so much an option as it was more or less one of the earliest ATR 72 models. The -42, I think was primarily aft-entry. I do recall seeing some pictures of one of the first AT7s that Executive received in an airliner book I had. It was one of the old -202 series (with the PW124 engines) and had a boarding door in the forward cabin as well as the rear (kind of like the Q400 setup). That may have changed and the cargo door replaced the entrance door as a retrofit on the older aircraft.

edit: I did a quick search on ATR 72s, and found that there are actually different designations that distinguish certain cosmetic differences between the models. This should help:

ATR-72-201 (with forward entrance door):
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0014798/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0014801
ATR-72-202 (entrance door replaced by cargo door):
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0031564/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0151743/L/


[Edited 2006-07-24 18:56:11]

[Edited 2006-07-24 19:00:04]
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
vfw614
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RE: First Class At The Back

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:41 am

After thinking about it for a while, I seem to remember that I was recently on two ATR72s with a forward entrance door. One was an Aero Airlines (Estonia) ATR72-201, the other a TransAsia Airways(Taiwan) ATR72-201. Never thought about the -201 and -202 difference, but apparently the -201s are the ones with the forward door.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: First Class At The Back

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:52 am

The AE ATR 72 I was on boarded from the rear.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
NASBWI
Posts: 919
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: First Class At The Back

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 37):
After thinking about it for a while, I seem to remember that I was recently on two ATR72s with a forward entrance door. One was an Aero Airlines (Estonia) ATR72-201, the other a TransAsia Airways(Taiwan) ATR72-201.

True...having seen a few pictures of -201s, Finnair and Brit Air also has a few - Finnair got theirs from Kar Air, which, IIRC was the launch customer for the ATR-72.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 38):
The AE ATR 72 I was on boarded from the rear.

Of course; Eagle only flies the ATR 72-210s and 212As (-500s) nowadays. Their -201/202s were probably traded much earlier on for the later (more powerful) models. The picture I had seen was one of their first deliveries, I believe..
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