eastern023
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United To Latin America, Expanding?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:57 pm

Does anyone knows anything about United plans to return to cities in Latin America dropped after 9/11?. Santiago, Lima, etc..
IAD-SCL Perhaps?
AA will Rise Again!
 
PVD757
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:07 pm

just my opinion, but I think the recent TACA codesaher will allow UA to basically serve these tyoes of markets via the partner. I would look for more IAD service and coordinated schedules.
 
ualcsr
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:28 pm

I just flew through ORD and came across a lot of former UA co-workers who used to work with me at MIA. According to a few of them, they've heard rumors of non-stop IAD-GIG starting early 2007. LIM was never a lucrative market from MIA although it might work from IAD. SCL was profitable for some time from MIA.
 
aal0616
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:39 pm

Not unless new or re-deployed equipment becomes available. Santiago, for example, became problematic once service from Miami was terminated. Ironically, when the United Miami-Santiago service was launched by Pan Am with A-310s, Tom Plaskett commented that the A-310 equipment being utilized from KJFK to EIDW would be better utilized in terms of both revenue and yield flying south from KMIA. The company did not last long enough to prove the wisdom of the late 1980s Pan Am shift toward KMIA, and, of course, AAL was already preparing to pounce on and expand the former Eastern-Braniff-Panagra "west coast" Latin American franchise. At least United retained the Miami-Santiago service almost until they withdrew international mainline service entirely from KMIA (home of FAM #1, held dormant by UAL, KMIA-KEYW-MUHA).

Fast forwarding to today, one suspects that KIAD-SCEL or KORD-SCEL are far too thin to consider. However, TACA code-share will provide, at best, single-stop service to Chile. A change of Silverbird aircraft at KMIA is always welcome so that the AAL second quarter profit might continue for many more quarters. There may even be a semi-completed terminal to comfortably connect through at some point, too. I wonder if, since the South Terminal at KMIA will be completed sooner, whether anyone might consider new or longer-stage services from that facility to compete with oneworld's hold on US-Chile, and, for that matter, US-Peru, Ecuador, et. al.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:42 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 2):
I just flew through ORD and came across a lot of former UA co-workers who used to work with me at MIA. According to a few of them, they've heard rumors of non-stop IAD-GIG starting early 2007. LIM was never a lucrative market from MIA although it might work from IAD. SCL was profitable for some time from MIA.

Without RG, a non-stop IAD-GIG using their dorment frequencies (used only on summer) seems to be IMO the best option UA have to expand their activities in Brazil. DL and AA are obtaining very good results with their flights to Rio (AA will upgrade GIG-MIA next year). Also TAM is looking for Rio's market: They announce GIG-EZE, GIG-GRU-ASU, new domestic daily flights to JPA, FOR, SSA, POA and a 6th frequency to CNF. Also they have plans for a GIG-MIA.

IAD-GIG could open an important market for UA, as they could be the best option for NY and BOS from Rio, and due to the strong number of flights to BSB (17 against 7 from GRU), also the best for the diplomatic traffic US-Brazil.

Felipe
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United787
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 3):
KIAD-SCEL or KORD-SCEL



Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 3):
AAL

AAL0616, thank you for your thoughtful and informative post and welcome to A-Net.

One thing to note in the future, you should use three letter airport codes and two letter airline codes because they are recognized by this website's software. For instance, if you hold your curser over a 3 letter airport code or 2 letter airline code, it will show the full name of the airport or airline for those of us that aren't in the industry.
 
eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:04 pm

Thanks to everyone and welcome to my frist posting on airliners.net. I was hoping for someone to tell that UA had IAD-SCL in their inmediate plans. I grew up in Chile but live in the Northern VA area now. Evrytime I go visit I have a mandatory plane cange in MIA, ATL or DFW depending on carrier.
AA will Rise Again!
 
eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:26 pm

How about IAD-EZE-SCL? higher load and yields?
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Venezuela747
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:23 am

They need to make their way to CCS.....I believe either ORD or IAD can fill up an A320 or a B757 easily. There is a huge Venezuelan community in Maryland, and probably enough people to fill it from ORD
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
ualcsr
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 8):
They need to make their way to CCS.....I believe either ORD or IAD can fill up an A320 or a B757 easily. There is a huge Venezuelan community in Maryland, and probably enough people to fill it from ORD

I agree; I think it could work well out of IAD. Are there any government restrictions on further US flights after the Aeropostal/Santa Barbara situation earlier this year? I'm almost certain that AA was limited to 3 flights from MIA and upgraded one of them to an AB6.
 
ualcsr
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 7):
How about IAD-EZE-SCL? higher load and yields?

Didn't LH operate EZE-SCL at one point? Why did they drop it?
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 10):
Didn't LH operate EZE-SCL at one point? Why did they drop it?

Wasn't it part of a FRA-EZE-SCVL routing?

AA also served the EZE-SCL market for a while in the 90's. I have flown it both directions on AA metal in those years.
 
LAXintl
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:42 am

Its unlikely UA is going to sink money into a region that is the financially worst performing of its 4 operating regions (Atlantic, North Am, LatinAm, Pacific).

Losses have been continual for the last 5+ years (see company financial reports). In 2005 the Profit/Loss for the regions turned seriously for the worse with a 14.8% negative operating margin, by far the worst performance of all UA regions.

If anything, I could see UA pull back in the region especially in deep South America which requires multiple widebodies to make the schedule work and instead commit them other potentially more profitable regions.

As far as Brazil, the only bright spot has been RGs problems have lead to extremely strong demand for seats on the carriers GRU services as the US-Brazil market has seen the reduction in daily capacity results of RG cancellations.

At the end of the day, UA self admittedly is poorly positioned to compete in Latin America as its hubs are geographically handicapped for the region.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:46 am

AA served SCL-EZE both ways after adquiring Eastern Routes. Eastern used to fly MIA-EZE-SCL on a DC-10 before BK. LH is no longer servicing SCL they swap service with Swiss.
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eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
AA also served the EZE-SCL market for a while in the 90's. I have flown it both directions on AA metal in those years.

AA 900 EZE-SCL
AA 901 SCL-EZE
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luisde8cd
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 9):
Are there any government restrictions on further US flights after the Aeropostal/Santa Barbara situation earlier this year? I'm almost certain that AA was limited to 3 flights from MIA and upgraded one of them to an AB6.

After Venezuela was upgraded to CAT I by the FAA those problems vanished. Now carriers from both countries have the freedoms they used to have.

It will be great to have UA back in CCS after they left the country in 2002. I agree the best option would be an A320/A319 from IAD.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
ualcsr
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 15):
It will be great to have UA back in CCS after they left the country in 2002. I agree the best option would be an A320/A319 from IAD.

It really would be. Although I'm biased toward UA, I really do think we offered very good service from MIA to CCS. I remember pax had the option of being picked up and dropped off at the Eurobuilding (rather than driving themselves all the way to Maiquetia) and at one point, we offered a second, seasonal daily flight. There was a memo that was passed, probably around 1999, where UA's Miami management wanted to make the second flight permanent and add a third seasonal flight. Do you know if the flight was consistently a poor performer or did it do well until close to the end?
 
OB1504
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:47 am

I remember my only flights on UA. It was on board one of their 757s on MIA-LIM (if only I was old enough to realize that there was Channel 9...), and they did provide exceptional service. I recall the catering (dijon chicken with rotini) being so good that my mother later used (and still uses) the recipe on a regular basis.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 10):
Didn't LH operate EZE-SCL at one point? Why did they drop it?



Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 11):
Wasn't it part of a FRA-EZE-SCVL routing?

Yes, LH did operate FRA-EZE-SCL, but as a part of a non-stop, ramping cluelessness from LH towards Latin America they decided to call off that route, that got a lot of attention from Buisnessmen (at least here in Argentina), to add their second daily flight to GRU, leaving the former FRA-EZE-SCL, as FRA-GRU-EZE and FRA-GRU-SCL (the latter flight was dropped by LH and is now operated by LX/SR ZRH-GRU-SCL).

Who wins here? Air France, of course.

Cheers! wave 
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STT757
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 13):
Eastern used to fly MIA-EZE-SCL on a DC-10 before BK

After '89 Eastern was flying Miami-Guayaquil-Santiago with an A300.
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star_member
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:31 pm

any rumours of taca joining star alliance?
 
UAL777UK
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:55 pm

Quoting Star_member (Reply 20):
any rumours of taca joining star alliance?

I would guess an announcement next year after they have beeded in their code share with UA
 
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United787
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
As far as Brazil, the only bright spot has been RGs problems have lead to extremely strong demand for seats on the carriers GRU services as the US-Brazil market has seen the reduction in daily capacity results of RG cancellations.

United better being doing well from Brazil. I have two friends that just flew from GRU to ORD on UA last week, he paid $1600 one-way and she paid $5000 one-way in First Class (because she is very pregnant), fortunately paid for by his company.
 
eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:31 am

What about taging on SCL to one of the flights to EZE or GRU from IAD?. Traffic rights between the cities may help yieds>
AA will Rise Again!
 
ualcsr
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:41 am

In addition to MIA-SCL, UA offered a tag from LIM to SCL on the MIA-LIM service in the late 90s. It lasted about 2 years using the LIM 757.
 
Arcano
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:37 pm

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 3):
Santiago, for example, became problematic once service from Miami was terminated. Ironically, when the United Miami-Santiago service was launched by Pan Am with A-310s,

I'm sorry, but I don'0t think I understand your point. How can a terminated service be problematic? Once MIA-SCL was terminated... end of story!

I don't remember to see 310 metal of PA in Santiago; There was some 1011 and 747, can you confirm this?

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 3):
ast forwarding to today, one suspects that KIAD-SCEL or KORD-SCEL are far too thin to consider

Yes, but why non stop flights are the only chance? Maybe a stop in BOG, CCS, UIO could fit for a smaller aircraft, or to continue some EZE route wich would avoid aircraft transfer when flying to ORD or IAD for Chilean pax in MIA, DFW or ATL

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 10):
Didn't LH operate EZE-SCL at one point? Why did they drop it?

So did IB, PA, AA, AV, RG, KL, BA etc etc etc

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
After '89 Eastern was flying Miami-Guayaquil-Santiago with an A300.

Are you sure about this as well? I remember 727 and 1011...

Regards )(, it would be nice to se UA back in this soil...
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RCS763AV
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:38 am

Maybe a 3x weekly A319 to BOG could work, or a 757 flying IAD-BOG-SCL/LIM could work too. CCS and BOG could fill up a flight to IAD.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:46 pm

If UA does indeed decide to go back into South American markets form the US it will be interesting to see since AA has such a stranglehold on all of the routes in question from MIA especially. In the last year or two DL has also made strides in upgrading their South American Service from their super-hub ATL. Lets see how this does if it indeed reaches fruition.
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LAXintl
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting Arcano (Reply 25):
I don't remember to see 310 metal of PA in Santiago

Just prior to the sale of the European division to Delta, A310s operated MIA-SCL nonstop supplementing the 747 service via EZE.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting Arcano (Reply 25):
I don't remember to see 310 metal of PA in Santiago; There was some 1011 and 747, can you confirm this?

I was a little kid, but I remember well PA operating at SCL with an A310. It was actually used for MIA-SCL and also MIA-GRU-SCL for a little while.

Quoting Arcano (Reply 25):
Yes, but why non stop flights are the only chance? Maybe a stop in BOG, CCS, UIO could fit for a smaller aircraft, or to continue some EZE route wich would avoid aircraft transfer when flying to ORD or IAD for Chilean pax in MIA, DFW or ATL

I second that. I propose IAD-EZE-SCL with EZE-SCL traffic rights. The plane that flyies the route already stays at EZE long enough to make the hop over the Andes.
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MAH4546
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 29):

I second that. I propose IAD-EZE-SCL with EZE-SCL traffic rights. The plane that flyies the route already stays at EZE long enough to make the hop over the Andes.

No can do. The IAD flight continues to MVD, a surprising porfitable UA station.

The ORD-EZE flight could continue to SCL, but ORD-EZE only operates 3.5 months a year (a waste of a valuable US-Argentina slot which AA and DL should attempt to argue with DOT for).
a.
 
eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 26):
Are you sure about this as well? I remember 727 and 1011...

Don't forget the good'ole DC10. Eastern Flew flight EA 023 MIA-EZE-SCL on a DC10 at least in 1998. I flew it myself as a kid. Behold my screen name Eastern 023!.
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hardiwv
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:57 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Without RG, a non-stop IAD-GIG using their dorment frequencies (used only on summer) seems to be IMO the best option UA have to expand their activities in Brazil. DL and AA are obtaining very good results with their flights to Rio (AA will upgrade GIG-MIA next year).

I fully subscribe to your opinion. In my view, IAD-GIG seems the the best option for UA's expansion in the region at the moment. It is a pitty UA decided yet again to upgrade IAD-GRU to twice daily this Summer.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
IAD-GIG could open an important market for UA, as they could be the best option for NY and BOS from Rio, and due to the strong number of flights to BSB (17 against 7 from GRU), also the best for the diplomatic traffic US-Brazil.

Not only diplomatic, but "federal public service" in general (all Ministries, Courts, Embassy staff, intergovernmental organisations, plus a considerable traffic of the "lobby" and consultancy agencies). However, keep in mind that TAM's MAO-MIA is catching a lot of BSB connecting pax to the US market.

Rgs,
 
aal0616
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:15 pm

Please accept a late reply only due to work obligations. Yes, in fact, Pan Am removed an A310 from New York Atlantic service and redeployed the equipment to Miami-Santiago service. My comment regarding Santiago becoming problematic for United is that, after withdrawing Miami-Santiago, United then pulled out of Miami completely, making Santiago a problematic potential station, with service now of necessity being either Chicago or Washington originated, and thinner, than a Miami service, even given the competition from Miami. It would be almost impossible for a Washington Dulles daily service, for example, to connect seamlessly with United Atlantic operations, which depart Washington in the late afternoon through the evening, requiring "sunrise" Santiago departures. A stretch would be west coast USA operations; oddly, a certificate held by Pan Am and flown for a while on a twice-weekly 747 basis operated San Francisco-Los Angeles-Santiago-Buenos Aires/Sao Paulo for a while under Ed Acker. Braniff from time to time also offered Lima and Santiago one-two weekly DC8s in that direction.

United sat on a mountain of dormant former Pan Am Latin American Division route authority, a situation that American has certainly exploited to the fullest, to the point of probably beyond no return.
 
aal0616
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:29 pm

Also, another thought regarding intermediate stations. Take a look at a Pan Am timetable from, say, the mid-late 1960s, given, of course, range restrictions of the equipment; however, you will see a number of Caracas-southbound, Panama-southbound, Brasilia stops, etc., so there was a precedent for an American carrier flying within the continent, let alone the Braniff, Panagra, then Braniff-Panagra merged routes, which became Eastern and then American.

I suspect, however, that Senor Chavez in Venezuela and his various wannabe proteges would object rather strenously at this point to United or others operating what actually may indedd still legally exist as rights between points within the continent.

This is an interesting legal, political and economic question.

There will not be expensive "change of gauge" ever again by American carriers flying south or east and only limited, special cases such as Tokyo Narita westbound. The days of Pan Am or TWA 747 to 727 changes at stations like Heathrow, DeGaulle or Frankfurt are history, likewise, downline jumps like Pan Am, Panagra/Braniff//Braniff-Panagra/Eastern/American operated southbound, but I see your point regarding "through" flights southbound.

I suspect the American side does not see economic benefit and the hosts would rather not have restored American regional competition, or, as was the case for two generations, control by one American supercarrier, its half-controlled stepchild, and national carriers actually controlled by the American company (Panair do Brasil, Avianca, Mexicana, Cubana, et. al.), however safe, efficient and comfortable that service was.
 
2travel2know
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:57 pm

Since it's said that there is a market in the Greater Washington DC area for flights to Bolivia (LB seems to be flying to IAD still), Could a IAD-LIM-VVI work? With those TA-UA codeshares, I don't expect TA Peru is going to fly LIM-IAD anytime soon.
Aslo, several TA destinations like BOG, PTY, CCS just won't be attractive for UA passengers from ORD and IAD via SAL or SJO.
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eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:05 am

LB flights into IAD has been cancelled.
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eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:04 am

I guess this is completely out of the question given the news.
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unitednrt
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 37):

You mean the news from the UK? I'm not quite sure what news you meant.
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
eastern023
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RE: United To Latin America, Expanding?

Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:06 am

Are the news in the UK have a bad impact on traffic?.
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