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Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:31 am

I've been thinking a lot lately about what a nightmare it is connecting between terminals at Heathrow, how the airport doesn't fit together very well, how much of it is old and tired looking and I began wondering why so many airlines covet it so much. Aside from being connected to the tube I can't think of one good reason why LHR is better than STN or LGW for O&D passengers. Why are slots at Heathrow so coveted amongst airlines compared to LGW and STN?
 
BOE773
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:57 am

Because of all it's delays and wasting airline's fuel!!
Better going to AMS, FRA or CDG.
 
AirScoot
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
Aside from being connected to the tube I can't think of one good reason why LHR is better than STN or LGW for O&D passengers. Why are slots at Heathrow so coveted amongst airlines compared to LGW and STN?

I think it's two things.. one is the sheer number of carriers and destinations served and two is the amount of transportation available to/from LHR. I've flown into all three and even though it's a much maligned facility (I've even done the T3-T4 connection) I actually like it. I've taken the Tube and Heathrow Express and found the transportation into central London easier than dealing with the Gatwick Express (which - if memory serves - is no longer running) or the nightmare we went through to figure out how to get to and from STN.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
Why are slots at Heathrow so coveted amongst airlines compared to LGW and STN

Because of the location that LHR is. LHR is the preferred airport for passengers, and AA, UA, BA, and VS are able to charge higher fares on such trunk routes from JFK, ORD, BOS, and IAD. LGW is becoming like LHR with the heavier traffic, and newer entries from across the pond are into forced into STN now because of congestion at Gatwick. LGW has come along way from the secondary, charter hub of the 1970s and and 80s. It used to be a race track, now it's a rat-race. Cool aviation store on the mezzanine
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ualcsr
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
I think it's two things.. one is the sheer number of carriers and destinations served and two is the amount of transportation available to/from LHR.

True. Irrespective of what anyone thinks of Heathrow, it's the most accessible airport into Central London. It's also the closest to the western parts of London (Kensington, Chelsea, etc.) and the affluent towns of Surrey where you have a larger concentration of business travellers who are likely to fly long haul flights and will pay for business or first class travel.

I personally love Heathrow. I know the connections can sometimes be messy and the airport, in general, does not look pretty, but no airport in the world can come close to in giving off that certain busy, international feel.
 
BOE773
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:35 pm

LHR is an archaic mess with traffic and airlines are wasting a lot of fuel flying here. Holding in the air, holding on the ground makes for many disgruntled passengers. LRH will just be twinkling lights 7 miles below in years to come with air traffic overflying this place. AMS, CDG and FRA are much better airports with regards to traffic and people flow.
I had friends who spent half an hour in the holding pattern prior to landing, then another hour spent holding on the ground prior to offloading. After their nine hour flight which ended up being a ten and a half hour flight, then missed their connecting flight as well. They were not happy people. I try to avoid LHR when I possibly can.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:46 pm

Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
I began wondering why so many airlines covet it so much.

LHR has most of the high-yield, long haul routes out of London. There is a higher yield potential when you transport people to/through LHR than LGW.

Most countries that have an airline that flies to London fly to LHR.

Gatwick is definitely an easier airport to maneuver.
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ordryan28
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):

LHR has most of the high-yield, long haul routes out of London.

Yes, don't forget about LHR being BA's home base. Alot of US, Canadian, South American Passengers fly into LHR so they can then connect to another destination, say Lithuania. BA flies practically everywhere you can think of, and if not, LHR has an airline that flies to the place you're looking for. I'd say close to, if not the majority of the passengers that fly into LHR are connecting and then flying to another European, Asian, African destination.

-Ryan
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cloudyapple
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:32 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):

So in addition to the A/B cheerleader and bashers here on a.net, we have a new breed - a Heathrow basher!

Like it or not it is the airport of choice when going to London or for transit for the various reasons mentioned. The fact that it is the busiest international airport in the whole wide world - nothing even comes close - is self-evidence of its importance.

The terminals are a bit below par at the moment compared to CDG or Frankfurt but things are looking up with T5, Heathrow East, R3, and T6 in the pipeline.

You may dislike it as much as you want but the 90 internationally respected airlines and the 70m passengers using it each year to fly to 180 destinations disagree with you.

It's a wonder the place even runs as it is so hats off to everyone who makes it work - me included.

[Edited 2006-07-21 07:34:36]
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lredlefsen
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:59 pm

I flew into/out of LGW for the first time in my life last month, and have to say that compare to LHR, it's complete crap! (I flew to/from LAS.)

The arrivals lounge of LGW is OK. Departures is a nightmare. Checking in, I had to fight my way through dozens of airlines' checkin lines just to get to the VS Upper checkin line, and then, you're competing with a bazillion people at the security line! Thank god for FastTrack! The Virgin Club House is about 3 miles from the actual gates... *sigh* I guess it's no better than T4 at LHR.
 
astuteman
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:46 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 4):
Irrespective of what anyone thinks of Heathrow, it's the most accessible airport into Central London. It's also the closest to the western parts of London (Kensington, Chelsea, etc.) and the affluent towns of Surrey where you have a larger concentration of business travellers who are likely to fly long haul flights and will pay for business or first class travel.

Right on the money for me  checkmark .

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
LRH will just be twinkling lights 7 miles below in years to come with air traffic overflying this place.

Greater London (The M25 and its environs) contains an easy 50% of the entire UK population, and the majority of the UK's business and commercial centres. So where do you think the large majority of people will want to fly to when they come to the UK?
To the south-east of England.
Which is served by 4 major airports - LHR,LGW,STN,LTN.
Development plans are already made for these airports, which will all grow. In 40 years time LHR will STILL be the biggest.
Why? Because it can.
It has the most mature infrastructure (in all sorts of ways), and the PLANNING acceptance for the developments which will keep it that way (whether we like it or not).

If LHR is "just twinkling lights 7 miles below", what are you suggesting for the countless MILLIONS of travellers who want to go to LONDON? They overfly to AMS, and then transfer to LTN?  rotfl 

Fragmentation is a fact that I certainly won't deny, but HUBS will always be HUBS.
Heathrow's traffic levels will only go 1way, and its not down. (I suspect the same applies to CDG, LAX, FRA, SIN, HKG, JFK............and so on, too).

Regards
 
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:13 pm

Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
I've been thinking a lot lately about what a nightmare it is connecting between terminals at Heathrow, how the airport doesn't fit together very well, how much of it is old and tired looking and I began wondering why so many airlines covet it so much. Aside from being connected to the tube I can't think of one good reason why LHR is better than STN or LGW for O&D passengers. Why are slots at Heathrow so coveted amongst airlines compared to LGW and STN?

Its called the M25 Motorway!
If you are travelling from the South West/Wales to London,then LGW is ok in the early hours/late night to reach,but STN is an absolute nightmare to get to.
Traffic on the motorway,can easily add 2hrs+ to your journey.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:40 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 10):
Greater London (The M25 and its environs) contains an easy 50% of the entire UK population,

60 million people in the UK you mean 30 of them live close to/inside the M25!? Inner London has 7.5m. So 22.5m in the suburbs!? No way. But I agree with you - there are a lot of (rich) people.

Also under BAA, Heathrow has been developed into a international business hub, Gatwick the Leisure hub and Stansted the Blue and Orange low-no budget hub. Each airport has its own status and role to play. This may change if Ferrovial decides to offload 1 or more of these and they start competing for traffic.
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:00 pm

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
the nightmare we went through to figure out how to get to and from STN.

Really? I flew in and out of STN with FR four years ago and found it a breeze. The STN xpress takes you in 40 minutes to Liverpool street station, and the terminal itself is a relief compared to the dirty bunker feeling at LHR T3 or T4. Plus it's on the budget with carriers like FR serving it...
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
astuteman
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 12):
60 million people in the UK you mean 30 of them live close to/inside the M25!? Inner London has 7.5m. So 22.5m in the suburbs!? No way. But I agree with you - there are a lot of (rich) people.

I did say "environs"  Wink

IIRC, some 20M people live "inside" the M25 (or was that "on" it .... biggrin  ), but if you include "environs", e.g 20 or so miles OUTSIDE the M25 (Crawley, Guildford, Aldershot, Farnborough, Woking, Bracknell, Windsor, Slough, Maidenhead, High Wycombe, HH, Dunstable, Luton, St. Albans, Hatfield, WGC, Harlow, Chelmsford, Basildon, Rochester, Gillingham, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, etc, etc...... crowded ..phew ) I reckon you won't be far off 30M  Smile

They'll all use London Airports  yes   Smile

Regards
 
Spruit
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:12 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
LRH will just be twinkling lights 7 miles below in years to come with air traffic overflying this place. AMS, CDG and FRA are much better airports with regards to traffic and people flow

Yeah I'm sure people who want to travel to these destinations will only see LHR as a set of twinkling lights! Heathrow may not be the nicest airport in the world but it's been around the block and it's showing it's age, if you don't like it, don't go to it! Go to CDG and train it back into London on the EuroStar!?

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
I had friends who spent half an hour in the holding pattern prior to landing, then another hour spent holding on the ground prior to offloading

Show me an airport which doesn't have delays and I'll show you an airport miles away from any major commerce centres with little or no convenient transport links!

Please, if your going to make comments, try to make them relevant and constructive.

Spru!
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cloudyapple
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:26 pm

I'll prefer Heathrow to any of the top 20 airports in the US - a 2 hr ground stop and then number 40 in the departure queue, that's daily business...
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keego
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:26 pm

I flew into LHR on Wed and back out again on Wed night(was at Farnborough, had to throw that in) and it was fine. We were holding for about 10mins on arrival which is quite common at any major international airport and delayed 1/2 an hour on departure because the plane was late leaving DUB, I really like LHR its my fav airport to fly into, not to mention the countless spotting opportunity's eyepopping .
 
richardw
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting EHHO (Reply 13):
Really? I flew in and out of STN with FR four years ago and found it a breeze. The STN xpress takes you in 40 minutes to Liverpool street station, and the terminal itself is a relief compared to the dirty bunker feeling at LHR T3 or T4. Plus it's on the budget with carriers like FR serving it...

That was 4 years ago. FR have many more flights now. The train is often packed, Sunday night after 10pm is manic.
 
Skidmarque
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:46 pm

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
I actually like it. I've taken the Tube and Heathrow Express and found the transportation into central London easier than dealing with the Gatwick Express (which - if memory serves - is no longer running) or the nightmare we went through to figure out how to get to and from STN.

Actually the Gatwick Express is still running, I used myself just last Tuesday, 30 minutes Gatwick to Victoria. There have been rumours of it's demise, but at this time it still very much exists
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jm017
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting GBOAG (Reply 19):
Actually the Gatwick Express is still running, I used myself just last Tuesday, 30 minutes Gatwick to Victoria. There have been rumours of it's demise, but at this time it still very much exists

Yes, i thought this service was cancelled (or now a local service). But I guess not.
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viv
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:29 pm

Three reasons:

Location

Location

Location.
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b777a340fan
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:48 pm

Location is definitely a reason. Heathrow has grown over the years to be London's "main" airport, with Gatwick and Stansted being backups and/or alternatives to passengers who didn't want to go through the hassle/headache of Heathrow. Another advantage of Heathrow is convenience. Heathrow, being a hub for BA and VS, offers connections to many cities in coordination with other airlines. I don't know, I think Heathrow was able to expand and accomodate its customers as the market expanded.
 
ualcsr
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:21 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 1):
Better going to AMS, FRA or CDG

AMS is a great airport and FRA is OK, but CDG? LHR is a model of organization compared to the mess at CDG.
 
GDB
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:25 pm

So BOAE773, not only are R/R engines crap, but so is LHR!
Again, explain the popularity of both.

It's an interesting universe you live in, but it's not real life.

For sure LHR has it's problems, I live near it, have worked there all my adult life, when you are that close you know the flaws.
But also the advantages, myself I think this counts for more than 'what a friend told you', a figure of the number of pax using LHR each year would be interesting, a provide some context perhaps.
 
theflyboy
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:37 pm

How anyone from Canada can criticise LHR is beyond me. I have been through Toronto many times & Pearson is one of the worst airports I have ever had the misfortune to spend time at. LHR is a bit tatty in places - but fundamentally it is an airport that works, is pleasant to spend time in & you can transfer right into the heart of the capital in 15 mins - very few other global; airports let you do that.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
Aside from being connected to the tube I can't think of one good reason why LHR is better than STN or LGW

The tube is a nightmare. It takes hours. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. While I'm a fan of the Paddington Express itself - it's the best line in the country, it could almost be German - Paddington is difficult to get to. The Circle and District Line are so unreliable, they could almost be Eritrean.

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 4):
closest to the western parts of London (Kensington, Chelsea, etc.) and the affluent towns of Surrey

Yeah, too true, that whole belt of Surrey has about a trillion BA Gold Card members living in it. A nice town car pick up to Heathrow followed by Club World to a meeting somewhere is a weekly part of their lives. Megabucks.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
Gatwick is definitely an easier airport to maneuver.

I agree, LGW and STN are much less stressful places to catch planes. But LHR is so exciting, people and planes from every corner of the globe.
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 4):
I personally love Heathrow. I know the connections can sometimes be messy and the airport, in general, does not look pretty, but no airport in the world can come close to in giving off that certain busy, international feel.

 checkmark  Well said.

Heathrow is not a pretty airport like HKG, DXB, SIN, KIX, AMS or ZRH, but it WORKS. The facts speak for themselves. 68 million people used LHR last year, in the next 10-15 years LHR will handle around an astonishing 100 million passengers. At the same, all the terminals are being refurbished, T1 and T2 will look completely different in a few years time, and ofcourse the impressive T5 will be stunning.

It's also the closest airport to the tourist and business destinations in London, it's catchment area is huge, around 20 million people (entire population of Australia) live within only an hours drive from LHR.
The airlines also want to fly to LHR, it commands better yields than other airports, why do you think BMI are desperate for long-haul flights from LHR?

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 7):
I'd say close to, if not the majority of the passengers that fly into LHR are connecting and then flying to another European, Asian, African destination.

30% of passengers at LHR are transit, around 5% is UK domestic, and the rest international and European.
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:34 pm

Hell, LHR isnt the nicest looking airport, the most comfortable airport (I can touch terminal 2s ceiling at check in!) however its the most convienient.
LGW and STN are both 'Out of the way' airports, plus they do not have the size to cope with a massive load of flights (2 runways vs 1).
LGW is my preffered airport, with LHR being second. I dont like STN (Ive never liked its design), however I dont have a choice for my next flight.

Kev.
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74472
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:42 pm

Look, it's an old airport that just gets on with doing it's job.

The glittering terminals are being built as we speak and it won't be long before there's another runway to ease congestion.

LHR is a great airport with alot of history and atmosphere. You can't fail to get a buzz of excitement driving around the 'Concorde round-about' before going through the tunnell !

I love it, the landing light queue in the night sky, 747's from all over the place roaring off over the M25, the deafening thunder of Concorde that 'rocketed' off into the sky for years, the black cabs, BA, the approach over Windsor (beautiful), the approach over central London (stunning - you actually see marvellous views of all the major sights before you've even got off the plane)

I think the T5 work has moved it but I loved the BA motorway sign that read -

'ALL INTER-CONTINENTAL DEPARTURES' Glamourville !!

It's got soul and it's what flying is all about !
 
GDB
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:45 pm

Well I very often use the tube-from Hatton Cross, if it's central London I'm heading for, I'm usually there in less than an hour.
Not always at off peak times either.
 
BOE773
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:03 am

If one removes the European passengers from LHR, then it drops way down in regards to being the busiest International airport.
Isn't Britain a member of the EU?
Isn't Britain European?
So then why are European passengers considered international?

Dubai Airport will overtake LHR as the center of air travel in years to come.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:08 am

Think of NYC-LGA if it had more terminal space and longer runways. JFK would be NOTHING (except perhaps the airport of choice for WN)! That is the way LHR is to London, and LGW is merely its version of EWR. Think of how coveted slots would even further be for international flights if LGA had the runways and terminal space of JFK, its proximity to midtown Manhattan etc...
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cloudyapple
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 31):
So then why are European passengers considered international?

Errr... because the UK is a separate country to France, Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, etc, etc... Is Canada the same country as te US since they are both on the American continent?

Basic Geography anyone?
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 33):
Is Canada the same country as te US since they are both on the American continent?

Some people look at it from purely an economic standpoint and view Canada as 10 additional states (all adding up to about the size of California) to the US even though they have a different seat of government at the federal level in Ottawa. The trade between the US and Canada is more immense than you'll ever imagine.  twocents 
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planesarecool
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 31):
So then why are European passengers considered international?

Because they're not British....?  Yeah sure

I find LHR great, as i do with STN and LGW. Although I'm not one to scream and cry if a ceiling is too low or there is a bit of wall unpainted, if i wanted to see a work of art, I'd go to an art gallery.
 
74472
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 31):
If one removes the European passengers from LHR, then it drops way down in regards to being the busiest International airport.
Isn't Britain a member of the EU?
Isn't Britain European?
So then why are European passengers considered international?

Dubai Airport will overtake LHR as the center of air travel in years to come.



Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
LHR is an archaic mess with traffic and airlines are wasting a lot of fuel flying here.

You've obviously just got it in for the UK judging by these and other remarks you make. It isn't about biggest or best or busiest, the UK is a G8 country with a huge mix of nationalities in the populace. London also has a massive tourism industry and is geographically a convenient transit point That's why LHR is the busiest international airport you 'silly person!' It always will be.

[Edited 2006-07-21 18:33:35]
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 34):
Some people look at it from purely an economic standpoint and view Canada as 10 additional states (all adding up to about the size of California) to the US even though they have a different seat of government at the federal level in Ottawa.

What's the problem with Mexicans coming into Texas by the same token? Isnt Mexico yet another 10 or so states of the US? Oh isn't the UK another 4 offshoot states of the US? What about China? Another 25 states on a separate continent? Oh Russia too - Putin is just a governor of those states isnt he?

I can never understand how Americans view the outside world. I'm glad I'm British. I know there are other countries, people and cultures. I respect them being different and separate from us/ours.

[Edited 2006-07-21 19:03:04]
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
gokmengs
Posts: 901
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:48 am

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
AMS, CDG and FRA are much better airports with regards to traffic and people flow.

Ok so are you suggesting people to fly to AMS, CDG, FRA when they want to go to London, that will be hard to sell Wink
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tjr16698
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:06 am

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 7):
Yes, don't forget about LHR being BA's home base.



Quoting FlyKev (Reply 28):
LGW and STN are both 'Out of the way' airports, plus they do not have the size to cope with a massive load of flights (2 runways vs 1).

These guys have pretty much distilled the whole thing into two main factors.

Living in Italy, the best connections for me are to LGW. There are two reasons for me to fly to the UK, the first to see my family, which means negotiating the M25 car park to head West. The second is to connect to a long haul flight, which means the M25 thing again, to LHR.
Thinking where the vast bulk of business travellers live & work (unless you're on the Pfizer payroll) LHR is the best option. LGW is sandwiched between the two most car-unfriendly areas in the world, the M25 and the English Channel.
I like LGW, it just takes a long time to get there, and there's not the critical mass of connections to make it a hub.
cheers
tjr
 
christeljs
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:08 pm

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
I've been thinking a lot lately about what a nightmare it is connecting between terminals at Heathrow

I find LHR extremely easy to navigate. There are free busses and trains to all the terminals and if you got time and want to, you can even walk...
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christeljs
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:08 pm

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
Gatwick is definitely an easier airport to maneuver.

And only 2 terminals.
Christel A Photography
 
motopolitico
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
AMS, CDG and FRA are much better airports with regards to traffic and people flow.

You're kidding me, right?

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 23):
AMS is a great airport and FRA is OK, but CDG? LHR is a model of organization compared to the mess at CDG.

You said it!

In terms of 'people flow' CDG is unmitigated disaster. 50 minute connections from an Air France transatlantic flight to an Air France european flight is blatantly false advertising. First your plane lands waaay out in the back forty, then you wait at least 20 minutes for the first bus to arrive, it takes another 15-20 minutes for the plane to start unloading in earnest, then you get to a terminal that is nearly bereft of signs telling you where to go. The signs that do exist will misdirect the innocent. They've also clearly never heard of "international in-transit." I spent 6 hours in 2C on my way to Africa, and it was frankly worse than flying economy class. You can't sleep in the chairs, you can't sleep on the cold marble floors, you can't sleep period, and you can't so much as send a postcard to "prove" you were in Paris. The best way to Paris bar none is Eurostar. Connections at France's flagship airport aboard France's flagship airline are nothing short of pitiful. I've flown to LHR several times, LGW only once, and though they may be tired (esp. LHR T3) I've never had to fear for my life lest the ceiling collapse on my head. Can CDG claim the same?
Garbage stinks; trash don't!
 
StanstedFlyer
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 4:48 pm

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
the nightmare we went through to figure out how to get to and from STN.

Couldn't be simpler with the Stansted express or coach links.

Quoting Cardiffairtaxi (Reply 11):
STN is an absolute nightmare to get to.
Traffic on the motorway,can easily add 2hrs+ to your journey.

If you live in the west and travel during rush hour. Just depends where you approach from.

LHR is still within the M25 and therefore to most people 'in' London.

Plush the sheer amout of connections as a hub, still makes it very attractive.

Personally my favourites are LCY and STN because of size and location, but you do still get that feeling stacking over London on an arriving redeye of something special.
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UAL777UK
Posts: 2164
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
AMS, CDG and FRA are much better airports with regards to traffic and people flow.

CDG is the pits of the earth. I have been through second world countries airports with better facilities!
 
ncelhr
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 26):
The tube is a nightmare. It takes hours. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. While I'm a fan of the Paddington Express itself - it's the best line in the country, it could almost be German - Paddington is difficult to get to. The Circle and District Line are so unreliable, they could almost be Eritrean.

Spot on, Cedarjet. I live in Kensington & fly out once or twice a month on average.

I wouldn't say that the Heathrow Express is the best line in the country simply because it is also the most expensive line in the country, and probably in the world! Close to 15 pounds for a 15 minute journey is excessive.
Of course, there's always the Tube. I've given up on that a long time ago. Circle/District line is like playing Russian Roulette and Piccadilly line is often as packed as a sardine can. And this summer you'll arrive at LHR fully cooked. (steam dumplings anybody  Smile )

When travelling for business I usually fly LHR. When it's about getting a cheap flight, then LGW is fine. The Gatwick Express has never disappointed me. As for the airports themselves, each airport has its own advantages & inconvenients. LHR's worst ones are circling around for ages whilst waiting for a landing slot & the time it sometimes takes for hold luggage to be restituted. LGW's worst points, apart from the fact that it's so far out there, is that come the holidays you need to battle through Chav City. all that Bling causes delays at security...  Smile

As for other airports with which I also have extensive experience:

- STN
Too far out. It takes me 2 hours to get there. On "good days" the place is a breeze to go through. On holiday departures, it's an absolute mess. In June I waited 25 minutes to go through security. Unbelievable.

- Luton
Way out, although using the train it's not that bad, and sometimes it's the only airport from which to fly out to Europe on a budget. The terminal itself has probably been modelled after Heathrow: it's tiny as seen from outside but when you want to reach your gate or better still, when you land, they take you walking for miles and miles. How do they do that?
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:14 am

I live just under LCY, and 50 minutes from STN.

I fly from LHR all the time.

It takes me 2 hours to get to LGW and 90 minutes to get to LHR.


Given LCY's proximity and geographically ideal placed for STN why do I fly LHR ?

Cost: invariably it's always cheaper to fly from LHR.

LCY is usually £50+ more expensive.
STN doesnt have the flights (unless i'm chavving in Europe).
LGW is just awful.

Given cost is a big factor why am I flying to JFK this weekend from LHR and not LCY as I connect in FRA... because it's cheaper...£80 this weekend alone !

So it must be a myth that airlines at LHR make more in yield..
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
ReverseThrust
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:24 pm

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:46 am

The Gatwick Express is still running, so it's obviously a long time since you've been there!

It's difficult to get into STN because of the mass domination by FR and EZY... apart from that, there are a few charters and Air Berlin and Blue 1 besides the freight. The Stansted Express link to London could run more frequently - that lets the airport down a lot.

Gatwick is ok, but has only one runway 08/26 and is mainly used as the south's number one Charter Airport for holidays. Monarch's excellent scheduled services to the Med also fly from there. BA have chopped and changed their services there of late and EZY/FR are even getting at stronghold there too. So Gatwick is now getting an LCC image which it never really had previously. Only a few other schedules companies regularly fly from LGW and they are a bit random for connecting flights - unlike LHR.

There's not such a choice of destinations, and even more so, the choice to fly and connect onto flights within the same Frequent Flyer Memeberships unless you're connecting from AA-BA to SN when you can stick with OneWorld whereas, at Heathrow, you can connect on all your FFP's probably thus reducing the overall price of your tickets too.

Yes, it is tired and yes, you can hold for ages before being allowed to land, but this is not always the case. The downside is airport security, which needs greater levels of staffing at busy times to get pax through to the gates.

Luton is another EZY/FR stronghold (more EZY though) and good for Monarch's scheduled services to the Med, but nothing really compared to Heathrow.
Flown MD11/81/82/83/87/90,B732/733/734/735/737W/738/739/742/752/753,F70/100,A300/319/320/321/332/333/343,TU134A/154M,L10
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 46):
LCY is usually £50+ more expensive

Incidentally, how much more does it cost you to get to LHR?
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?

Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:04 am

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 48):
Incidentally, how much more does it cost you to get to LHR?

£12 approx Tube round trip 90minutes each way, or
£31 with tube/LHREx (80-95 minutes) which saves me 10 minutes on the tube only if the LHREx is ready to go when I get there,

The best thing about LCY is time... it takes 10 minutes to drive, or 20 by DLR, and needs 20 minutes to check in.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY

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