maiYYZ
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2001 10:27 am

Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:07 am

Hello all...
Varig, Vasp and other South American airlines used to fly to YYZ in the past. But currently, no airline from that region seen to be interested in starting service to YYZ or another city in Canada. There is any reason for? I know AC offers many flights to GRU, LIM, BOG, SCL, CCS and EZE. In the meantime, I know many airlines from Caribbean and Central America, like Cubana, TACA, BWIA, Air Jamaica fly to Toronto, and those routes are all served by AC too. My point is: there is more passenger/cargo demand between Canada and Caribbean/Central America than Canada and South America? Thanks for any comments.
CU IL62M, CP 763, QN A310, QN B757, AC 763, CU A320, SP A310, AC A340, AC B773, AA B772, AA B738, AA CRJ600
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:33 am

I'm sure Lan Chile and Ladeco (LA and UC) at some point used to fly to Canada, not sure about the city, though.

I don't think an airline as LA needs now to fly to Toronto or Montreal, it's much more profitable to use partners as AA or AS

Regards )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting MaiYYZ (Thread starter):
My point is: there is more passenger/cargo demand between Canada and Caribbean/Central America than Canada and South America? Thanks for any comments.

MaiYYZ, Canada investments in Brazil use to be even larger in the past than nowadays. Due to strong investments made by US, Spain, Portugal, France, UK and other countries like Mexico and also crisis on the 90's, the fleet reduction obligate airlines as RG to fly only for a little number of destinations. Furthermore, Brazilians use to immigrate to Canada during the 80's and 90's and this people dream has been changed in favor of Europe.
Talking about Brazil, Canada use to be a top 5 foreign investor, now is not among the top 10 (probably ranked 18th), so the demand is not so strong for C and F nowadays for two flights to YYZ.
Also, there are another explanation (geography), people outside YYZ could just go south and connect thru ATL, MIA, IAD, JFK, IAH or EWR. Seems to be for some people, closer than a flight XXX-YYZ-GRU
Concerning to Cargo, it's cheaper to consolidate thru the US than run cargo flights Canada-Brazil or even Argentina, Chile and other countries.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:40 pm

Apparentely YYZ is in Conviasa's plans for its North American expansion which is expected to occur sometime in the upcoming years.

But personally, I think I'll grow white hair first before that happens.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:17 pm

There have been recent talks about Avianca being interested in flying to YYZ from BOG, paralel to Air Canada's current service. They would eventually market the flights together.

In my opinion, Avianca is fine codesharing with Air Canada on its three weekly services from Toronto to Bogota for now; the market still isn't that big anyways. It wouldn't surprise me one bit though if either airline decided to increase frequencies in the medium-term.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
maiYYZ
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2001 10:27 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:30 am

Thx for all comments.
CU IL62M, CP 763, QN A310, QN B757, AC 763, CU A320, SP A310, AC A340, AC B773, AA B772, AA B738, AA CRJ600
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:33 am

What I know is that there is not too much pax market for 02 airlines. AC is very good not only to Canada but its connections to FarEast, what makes their loads good in keeping the amount of frequencies they have.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:48 am

fFying to YYZ is very expensive and that has kept many airlines away, to name some VS and CM.

AV has plans to operate a daily flight from BOG to YYZ in partnership with AC. (4x weekly AC A319 and 3x weekly AV 757), though it wont happen until the market matures a lot more.

CM also has plans to start PTY-YYZ, though they are not South American.
 
CXA330300
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:43 pm

The GTAA charges arguably the highest fees to operate at YYZ in the world. Carriers that once had flourishing operations have cut their YYZ operations as costs have risen-SQ, VS, and CM come to mind. In addition, alliances has made it easier-VG can cooperate with UA, US or AC to YYZ, LA has the assistance of AA through MIA and JFK, CM can connect its passengers through IAH with CO.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 8):
CM can connect its passengers through IAH with CO.

Connecting traffic to/from Canada via a U.S.A. Airport is only attractive for those who don't need U.S.A. Visas to travel to the States and don't mind going thru "post 9/11 Port-of-Entry formalities".
There's traffic between Latinamerica and Canada wishing for more non-stops flights to Canadian cities (mainly YYZ, YUL and YVR).

As of why Southamerican airlines don't fly to YYZ, I would say that maybe there are cases where the bilateral between a Latinamerican country and Canada don't allow the national airline to fly there but to other Canadian airports. That is the case of CM, an outdated bilateral allowing thrice weekly service to YUL (then YMX) and YVR.
Also there is the point of very expensive operating costs @ YYZ and YHM not being an interesting alternative (YYZ competitor) for an attractive Toronto flight from Southamerica.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 7):
AV has plans to operate a daily flight from BOG to YYZ in partnership with AC. (4x weekly AC A319 and 3x weekly AV 757),

I can see AV supplementing AC's YYZ/BOG service, however I don't see AC returning to the A319's on the route. The 762 was deployed on the route, largely because of cargo. There are huge amounts of fresh cut flowers, and produce, that are shipped, that can't be left behind due to freight capacity restrictions.
Above and Beyond
 
NicolasRubio
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:45 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting MaiYYZ (Thread starter):
I know AC offers many flights to GRU, LIM, BOG, SCL, CCS and EZE. In the meantime, I know many airlines from Caribbean and Central America, like Cubana, TACA, BWIA, Air Jamaica fly to Toronto, and those routes are all served by AC too. My point is: there is more passenger/cargo demand between Canada and Caribbean/Central America than Canada and South America? Thanks for any comments.

You just answered your own question... The little demand is already covered by AC...
Gripped 7D + Sigma 10-20mm + 17-40L + 50mm f/1.8 II + 70-200mm f/4L IS + EF 400mm f/5.6L + 580EX II
 
eastern023
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:54 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:17 am

Both first Lan Chile and Ladeco both operated Montreal-YUL from SCL via MIA and JFK. Back in the multi-stop days.
AA will Rise Again!
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 12):
Both first Lan Chile and Ladeco both operated Montreal-YUL from SCL via MIA and JFK. Back in the multi-stop days.

That would have been Montreal - YMX. Mexicana is currently the only Latin American carrier serving Montreal.
Above and Beyond
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 10):
I can see AV supplementing AC's YYZ/BOG service, however I don't see AC returning to the A319's on the route. The 762 was deployed on the route, largely because of cargo.

Ok, then it would be 4xw 762 3xw 757, of course, to fill up that amount of seats, it will take a couple of years for the market to mature.

BTW Im glad AC is carrying loads of cargo to Canada. Always good to hear two countries are having more trade.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 910A, AAlaxfan, AS512, BaBaby, clrd4t8koff, CM767, Indy, IPFreely, JCTJennings, karungguni, legacyins, msycajun, Pengaea, timberwolf24, Vasu, VirginFlyer, Yahoo [Bot], YBCS and 295 guests