BOEING747400
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A350XWB Technical Specifications

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:19 pm

I would like to know all the technical specifications of the A350XWB and relevant comparisons with other aircrafts of similar size. Thanks.
 
2wingtips
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:29 pm

You'll have to wait for Airbus to release them and even the airlines don't really know yet. All that was released was a great fanfare, telling us range, pax capacity and engine thrusts and that the cabin would be a few inches wider than the 787's.
Now Airbus has to come good on their promises with some real data to prove it is a step beyond the 787 and a leap beyond the 777.
I'll remain sceptical until I see the data, as Mr Leahy was telling all that the previous incarnation of the A350 was also a world beater. It proved to be a bit less than that.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:51 pm

Obviously the prople at SQ have been given specifications and performance guarantees. Can we tap a leak to find out what these spec and guarantees are?

I just seems weird to have a "phantom" plane receiving orders (and by phantom, I mean that the specifications are not public information).
 
katekebo
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:15 am

What Airbus has shared so far with the airlines as some preliminary performance specifications (payload, range, fuel burn, etc.) which are guaranteed as part of the sales contract. Detailed specs (empty weight, MTOW, etc.) will not be available until few months from now.

The performance guarantess that Airbus (or Boeing) shares with customers so early in the game are estimates and consequently involve a calculated risk - they don't have all the numbers in hand, but they are pretty confident that they will be able to achieve them based on current state-of-the-art technologies. Most of the time, the manufacturers get them right, in few but notorious ocassions performance specs have been missed (positively or negatively).
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:23 am

SQ have said that the fuse diameter of the XWB is 11 inches more than the original A350. I have put together a comparison:

FUSELAGE DIAMETERS OF TWIN ENGINE WIDEBODIES (increasing order)

B767
192 inches
5.03 m

A350 (original) same as A330/A340
222 inches
5.64 m

B787
226 inches
5.74 m

A350XWB
233 inches
5.92 m

B777
244 inches
6.19 m

Note that the A350XWB fuse diameter is exactly in the middle of A330 and B777.

TW
Only the paranoid survive
 
DAYflyer
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:24 am

So how can an airline like SQ order an airplane they know nothing about?
One Nation Under God
 
pavlin
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:28 am

XWB in not so widebody as advertised it actually lags 777, like 737 lags A320
 
scouseflyer
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 4):
Note that the A350XWB fuse diameter is exactly in the middle of A330 and B777.

To quote Katekebo "What Airbus has shared so far with the airlines as some preliminary performance specifications (payload, range, fuel burn, etc.) which are guaranteed as part of the sales contract."


all that fuss about 4 inches !!!! (the differance between the old A350 and the 787)
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
all that fuss about 4 inches !!!! (the differance between the old A350 and the 787)

Th extra 11 inches can be used for 1 inch wider seats in economy, and 1 inch wider aisle (1" x 9 seats + 1" x 2 aisles = 11 inches), or use even narrower seats and add in an extra seat span wise for 10 abreast (my guess?).

TW
Only the paranoid survive
 
atmx2000
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 8):
Th extra 11 inches can be used for 1 inch wider seats in economy, and 1 inch wider aisle (1" x 9 seats + 1" x 2 aisles = 11 inches), or use even narrower seats and add in an extra seat span wise for 10 abreast (my guess?).

The gain will be more than 11". The cabin floor will move below the widest part of the fuselage, allowing a much larger gain in cabin width. I think it will be close to 18-20", which will allow Airbus to make 9Y standard. It is unlikely anyone will put 8Y in the aircraft except in a premium economy format.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
The gain will be more than 11". The cabin floor will move below the widest part of the fuselage, allowing a much larger gain in cabin width. I think it will be close to 18-20", which will allow Airbus to make 9Y standard.

OK, so that means: 9 abreast standard and 10 high density? And lowering the floor to gain (over and beyond the 11") and additional 7"-9" floor width will still make the cargo hold a dream for SQ?

Let's wait and see for the specs. As of today, the Airbus website still has the old A350 Mark IV specs (not the XWB) and has only motherhood type of words with virtually no numbers (specs, performance, etc.) on what SQ signed the LOI for. Certainly some dimensions, weights, etc were made available to SQ, but perhaps Airbus is trying to keep it away from Boeing's marketing army.

TW
Only the paranoid survive
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 6):
XWB in not so widebody as advertised it actually lags 777

Good point. If we are talking about XWB for twin engines, then the A50XWB is not more X-tra W-ide B-ody than the 777. I guess Airbus came up with the term to tell customers that we are listening to your demand of wanting a wider cabin than the A330/A340/A350 Mark IV
Only the paranoid survive
 
ikramerica
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
all that fuss about 4 inches !!!! (the differance between the old A350 and the 787)

Again, someone who doesn't understand the nature of cross sections, interior width, non-circular fuselages, and still likes to spout off nonsense.

The 787 was more than 4 inches wider when it came to putting seats in. Depending on who you listen to, it was on the order of 12 inches of usable width. Others say it was 9 or so. But either way, that turned the really tight 9Y you can fit into an A330 in tourist config, to a functional 9Y in the 787.

By increasing the ROUND fuselage of the 350 to 333in, they are claiming to get 3in more than the 787, but we haven't seen all the cross sections yet. Those 3 inches can mean 17.5 or 17.6" seats on the 9Y 350, still not class leading (777 is more comfortable), but more efficient.

That's all that matters.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
nitrohelper
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:12 am

Did SQ order the the 350xyz, or was it a "deal" made by Airbus to offset the SQ damages for late delivery? If BMW gives me a car for their mistakes, I wouldn't worry about the specs when they are giving it. If I don't like the operating costs I can sell to someone else for a reduced price.
This method would get a "launch" for the Bus Boys ,and avoid legal action in public!
I would guess the price for the additional WhaleJets didn't have much profit either?
 
boeingbus
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:45 am

AIRBUS A350 XWB-900: KEY FACTS AND FIGURES
Seating: up to 314 passengers
(In manufacturer three class configuration)
subject to operator configuration
Range: 8,500 nautical miles
(15,700 kilometres)
Configuration: Twin aisle
Cross Section: 591 centimetres
(233 inches)
Wingspan: 64 metres
(210 feet)
Length: 64 metres
(210 feet)
Height: 17 metres
(56 feet)
Cruise Speed: Mach 0.85
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 265,000 kilograms (584,200 pounds)
Program Milestones: Entry into service in 2012
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
khobar
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 13):
Did SQ order the the 350xyz, or was it a "deal" made by Airbus to offset the SQ damages for late delivery?

Wait and see if SQ makes any further noise about compensation.
 
boeing767-300
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 1):
You'll have to wait for Airbus to release them and even the airlines don't really know yet. All that was released was a great fanfare, telling us range, pax capacity and engine thrusts and that the cabin would be a few inches wider than the 787's.
Now Airbus has to come good on their promises with some real data to prove it is a step beyond the 787 and a leap beyond the 777.

 checkmark  Leahy is slick there is no doubt about that but his sales pitch carries Airbus's sagging credibility with it and they have to come up with the goods.

The real winner here is SQ. Airbus have been in a desperate situation to gain credibility in their woeful response to 787. SQ cultivated the perfect oppurtunity to obtain more A380 and A350XWB at a price that would shock michael Oleary of RyanAir. This is a smart move on Airbus's (Leahy) part but you can bet with its locked in with watertight performance guarantees and at a price that will have Airbus battling technical and financial problems trying to build the promised jet. I say good luck to them but based on current(A343/A345/6) form SQ are set to make plenty out of performance contracts.

I suspect the real problem Airbus has is clearly defined in the quote below....

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 1):
I'll remain sceptical until I see the data, as Mr Leahy was telling all that the previous incarnation of the A350 was also a world beater. It proved to be a bit less than that.

10 Billion to recover and I bet these 20 A350 will contribute nothing to recovering investment  scratchchin  but it does give the programme some credibilty. Can the Engineering department match Leahys mouth....I'm with 2wingstips and remain a little sceptical until proven otherwise....
 
NAV20
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
So how can an airline like SQ order an airplane they know nothing about?

It isn't an order at the moment, it's a 'Memo. of Understanding'. Presumably it says, in terms, that Airbus believe that they can produce an aeroplane with a given performance and SIA has indicated that if Airbus can, they will buy it. Not legally binding on either side.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
2wingtips
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 17):
It isn't an order at the moment, it's a 'Memo. of Understanding'. Presumably it says, in terms, that Airbus believe that they can produce an aeroplane with a given performance and SIA has indicated that if Airbus can, they will buy it. Not legally binding on either side.

What I find really strange is that SQ say they are happy with the technical specifications and performance guarantees offered by Airbus for the 350XWB, whereas ILFC and EK were quoted at Farnborough this week as saying they thought the 350XWB looked good on paper but needed to see more details before they could make a decision. EK require another 6-12 months to make a decision and they know a fair bit about the 787-10. So, how do SQ get to know all these details at the expense of all others? And ILFC/EK are premium Airbus customers that called for a new 350.
 
NAV20
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:05 pm

Presumably all the airlines are saying exactly the same to both Boeing and Airbus. "We like the look of your proposed aeroplane on paper, and if it turns out to be as good in reality as it is in theory, we will actively consider buying it."

The only difference between SIA and the others appears to be that SIA has put the thought on paper (in the form of a non-binding 'commitment') instead of just saying it.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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mariner
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
And ILFC/EK are premium Airbus customers that called for a new 350.

And got trumped by the quiet - classier? - SQ.

I would suspect there is some residual bitterness at Airbus towards Mr. U-H for going public the way he did, and EK's Mr. Clark clearly sees no value in the unexpressed thought.

But what can they say now - that SQ is wrong?

 Smile

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
So how can an airline like SQ order an airplane they know nothing about?

Most likely SQ knows a bit more about the planes than we do.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 15):
Wait and see if SQ makes any further noise about compensation.

Compensation or not, SQ wouldn't accept an aircraft that lacks performance.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 16):
SQ cultivated the perfect oppurtunity to obtain more A380 and A350XWB at a price that would shock michael Oleary of RyanAir.

How do you know that?

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 16):
10 Billion to recover and I bet these 20 A350 will contribute nothing to recovering investment scratchchin but it does give the programme some credibilty.

Not just "some", as SQ is a key "blue chip" customer.


PH
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BOEING747400
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:55 pm

What about powerplant specifications? I would assume between that of A330 and B777 like 75,000-85,000 lbs. thrust per engine but do not know exactly.
 
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scbriml
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 13):
Did SQ order the the 350xyz, or was it a "deal" made by Airbus to offset the SQ damages for late delivery?

Yes, Airbus gave SQ 48 widebodies because of the A380 delay. sarcastic 

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 13):
I would guess the price for the additional WhaleJets didn't have much profit either?

Well it wouldn't would it, because Airbus gives it's planes away. banghead 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
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scbriml
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:29 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 17):
It isn't an order at the moment, it's a 'Memo. of Understanding'.

Indeed, but just in case you missed it, SQ's "order" for 787s is still only an LOI.

http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_U...any_info/press_release/NE_2606.jsp
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
2wingtips
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
And got trumped by the quiet - classier? - SQ.

I would suspect there is some residual bitterness at Airbus towards Mr. U-H for going public the way he did, and EK's Mr. Clark clearly sees no value in the unexpressed thought.

But what can they say now - that SQ is wrong?

And weren't SQ just as public about their discontent with the earlier A350? I could have sworn they were told by SQ to go and develop a better, more competitive plane. Hardly quiet and classy here.
 
nitrohelper
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):

I said a "deal" not free ,and small profits. Does the truth hurt ? banghead 
When I buy 20 trucks for my construction business ,I work over the dealers by the size of my order, and my future purchases for the fleet. I would believe the same is true for an airliner fleet, albeit a few more "zeros" on the contract price. wideeyed 
When I am negotiating a new 100 million dollar contract with an existing Hospital client, they never fail to bring up our past problems, or a competitors perceived advantages. The purpose is to get me to lower my fee a quarter or half percent.  frown 
I have been in many price negotiations with the Chinese Singaporeans, I believe that the Bus Boys were sweating out much "wine&cheese" during their meetings, and at night in their hotel rooms, over the terms to get this deal signed. pray 
I'm sure when the wiring stops "smoking" the WhaleJet price will go up. wave 
 
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scbriml
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 26):
I said a "deal" not free ,and small profits. Does the truth hurt ?

Since when was one a.netter's opinion the truth? The fact is, unless you brokered the deal you have no idea how much or little SQ paid for their planes.

However, the oft expressed a.net opinion that the only way Airbus manages to sell planes is at negligable profit, or indeed loss, simply doesn't account for their large profits.

Thanks for the lesson on bulk buying. I'll remember that the next time I need to buy trucks.

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 26):
I'm sure when the wiring stops "smoking" the WhaleJet price will go up.

The price of the A380 has already gone up. wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
nitrohelper
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:45 am

[quote=Scbriml,reply=27]Thanks for the lesson on bulk buying. I'll remember that the next time I need to buy trucks.

Not a problem, glad I could help ! If you need a new Hospital, let me know I can also get you a "deal".
 
khobar
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 21):
Compensation or not, SQ wouldn't accept an aircraft that lacks performance.

SQ will buy whatever aircraft are the most profitable in the long run, and if Airbus offers compensation to achieve that goal, why would SQ not go for such a deal? That is, of course, assuming your premise is correct - that the aircraft in question lack performance.
 
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mariner
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 25):
And weren't SQ just as public about their discontent with the earlier A350?

You may be correct, I don't remember reading that.

I do remember a lot of claims by other people about SQ being dis-satisfied with A350, but most of the public statements from SQ that I read were disappointment and/or anger about the delay to the A380.

In any event, no one - obviously - spoke as loudly as Mr. U-H, and and Mr. Clarke got a lot of covereage when he jumped on the bandwagon.

So, by comparison, yes, SQ was quiet. Classier is, of course, a value judgement.

 Smile

mariner
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halls120
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
So how can an airline like SQ order an airplane they know nothing about?

I believe they signed a Letter of Intent, not a firm order.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
By increasing the ROUND fuselage of the 350 to 333in, they are claiming to get 3in more than the 787, but we haven't seen all the cross sections yet. Those 3 inches can mean 17.5 or 17.6" seats on the 9Y 350, still not class leading (777 is more comfortable), but more efficient.

That's all that matters.

To some, that's all that matters. I'd gladly give up seat width in exchange for more legroom. Yes, I know that isn't a trade off you can make, but to suggest that the "only" thing that matters is fuselage width isn't necessarily true.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 21):
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
So how can an airline like SQ order an airplane they know nothing about?

Most likely SQ knows a bit more about the planes than we do.

 checkmark 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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scbriml
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 31):
I believe they signed a Letter of Intent, not a firm order.

It was an MOU. Their 787 "order" is a LOI.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
halls120
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 32):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 31):
I believe they signed a Letter of Intent, not a firm order.

It was an MOU. Their 787 "order" is a LOI.

I stand corrected, thanks.

Neither an MOU or LOI are firm orders of course, so who knows what will happen - other than SIA using the competition between A and B to get the lowest price possible.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
And ILFC/EK are premium Airbus customers that called for a new 350.

And got trumped by the quiet - classier? - SQ.

I would suspect there is some residual bitterness at Airbus towards Mr. U-H for going public the way he did, and EK's Mr. Clark clearly sees no value in the unexpressed thought.

But what can they say now - that SQ is wrong?

They could, but most likely will say, we hope you can deliver but we shall see. Classier or not, I guarantee you that Airbus is way more interested in making Mr. U-H happy. He will order many more planes and litterly can make the difference between success and failure.

Everything we have heard up to this point is pure Pee-R. SQ gets something and Airbus gets something. It will literally be years before we can determine if Airbus can deliver. I believe they probably will, but nobody really knows for sure. Now it is all theory. Reality comes later.

Having said that, we really don't know if the 787 is going to live up to its promise either. We are still in the theory stage on that one too.

[Edited 2006-07-23 01:32:58]
 
787engineer
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 19):
Presumably all the airlines are saying exactly the same to both Boeing and Airbus. "We like the look of your proposed aeroplane on paper, and if it turns out to be as good in reality as it is in theory, we will actively consider buying it."

The only difference between SIA and the others appears to be that SIA has put the thought on paper (in the form of a non-binding 'commitment') instead of just saying it.

So has or will A count this on their July order totals? I'll have to check at the end of the month.  Wink

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 21):
Most likely SQ knows a bit more about the planes than we do.

Absolutely, what's surprising is that SQ has enough info to sign an MoU, yet it wasn't enough for EK or IFLC, two sizable Airbus customers. I know each airline has different policies, but I always saw SQ as fairly conservative, wait until the first few launch customers take the early slots and with it the "risk" involved before ordering their planes. Especially with the A380 I thought the next time around they'd be a little more cautious. I would've expected EK to be the first to jump on the A350XWB bandwagon. Just my  twocents 
 
calags
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RE: A350XWB Technical Specifications

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 34):
Everything we have heard up to this point is pure Pee-R. SQ gets something and Airbus gets something. It will literally be years before we can determine if Airbus can deliver. I believe they probably will, but nobody really knows for sure. Now it is all theory. Reality comes later.

Having said that, we really don't know if the 787 is going to live up to its promise either. We are still in the theory stage on that one too.

 checkmark 
I think that SQ likes the current specifications of the 350XWB and think that it will fit some part of their market. Similarly, they seem to like the specs of the 787 and feel that it fits a different part of their market. Both vendors managed to price their offerings (either through discounts or other compensation) to SQ's satisfaction. The onus is now on the manufacturers to deliver on the promised performance.

I happen to be confident that Boeing can do it and we'll see soon enough. Airbus may have a harder time but SQ is confident enough to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If both vendors manage to meet their performance goals then the airlines and passengers all win! It's nice to have competition.