n471wn
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WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:01 am

Just posted to the Aviation Week and Space Technology site is an article that says that WN is looking for used 737-700's to meet demand created by the other carriers cutting back. The article cited a number of cities (including Denver) where the demand for seats exceeds supply........again the legacy carriers and their legacy of "over paid" and yet "under innovative" and "short term" management played right into their hands.....they just never learn. If NWA, US Air and AA think that their capacity reductions do not have long term consequences then they are just kidding themselves.
 
bennett123
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:06 am

 
Tom in NO
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Dbba (Thread starter):
The article cited a number of cities (including Denver) where the demand for seats exceeds supply........

I haven't seen AW&ST's article, but I've heard that MSY is on that list, as well.

Tom at MSY
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MCOflyer
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:12 am

It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits. Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

MCOflyer
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ScottB
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Dbba (Thread starter):
Just posted to the Aviation Week and Space Technology site is an article that says that WN is looking for used 737-700's

This was mentioned in the analyst call earlier this week as well, but it doesn't appear that there are many idle 737-700's to be had right now.
 
dutchjet
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:17 am

They are looking, but where is Southwest going to find used 73Gs in the near term future?


Just a thought, isnt Easyjet phasing out its 733/73G fleet in favor of A319s.....what is the status of their 73Gs?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:18 am

Listed airports are Denver, Las Vegas, Raleigh, Reno, Chicago, and New Orleans.
Aiming High and going far..
 
OPNLguy
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits. Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

I think SWA will eschew the used -300/-500 market in favor of the used -700s. The -300s/-500s are getting older, and there are only a certain number of "round-dial" (non-EFIS) aircraft to be had. There were rumors that we were to upgrade all our round-dial -300s/-500s to flat panels (like the -700s) but that appears to have been placed on the back burner due to cost.

I see Varig was going to return 2 -700s to the lessor(s), and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't eventually end up here.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits.

If we picked up used -700s, converting them to our cockpit layout would be pretty simple via a software change, unlike the days of old where used -200s/-300s meant changes in the physical instruments in the panel.

[Edited 2006-07-22 00:22:39]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:22 am

ARticle also states that they will not be getting rid of any aircraft before 2009. None. Zero. Zilch.

But I tell you what.. airlines think that decreasing the number of seats will help.. but they will also be losing quite a bit of customers due to the shortage of seats.. The seats are getting so expensive, those that would fly are instead opting to drive. If an airport had an 8% increase and then see a 12% decrease in seats, there is a problem.. and as predicted, most of those airlines that are decreasing capacity are seeing a decrease in marketshare and a decrease in revenue at restricted airports (those that have decreased seats).

But that's just my opinion.
Aiming High and going far..
 
KELPkid
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 7):
The -300s/-500s are getting older, and there are only a certain number of "round-dial" (non-EFIS) aircraft to be had. There were rumors that we were to upgrade all our round-dial -300s/-500s to flat panels

My understanding is that most 737-500's were delivered with the 757/767 style PFD's (and that this is how the Aircraft was oiriginally certified), however WN ordered theirs with "steam gauges" (round dials) for fleet commonality purposes. If so, wouldn't the refit be somewhat easy, in that the parts should be available and that it's already FAA certified? Of course, I'm omitting the amount of work that goes on behind the panel, of which I must plead 100% ignorance  Wink
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iowaman
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
Raleigh,



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
Reno,

RNO??RDU?? That's odd.
 
dutchjet
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:34 am

Lets make this more interesting.......

Does anyone think that Boeing or one of the leasing companies could arrange an aircraft swap to accommodate Southwest?

Here is what I am thinking, both CO and AS have large 73G fleets and both airlines now prefer the larger 738 variant of the 737NG family....what if CO or AS were to sell their 73Gs and in turn place an order for additional 738s. Actually, both AS and CO have large 738 orders outstanding, although in both cases the 738s are intended for expansion and to replace older airplanes (in AS's case, 734s and MD80s and in CO's case, 733s).

This is a very interesting opportunity and is proabably something that Boeing and the leasing companies will get involved with in a big way.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:36 am

Cool beans. I love the 737. How bout calling Boeing and see if they have next day delivery service. LOL.

Good luck to WN. I know they will find or pick up the U2 a/c.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
bennett123
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:36 am

How soon do they need to increase capacity?.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
If so, wouldn't the refit be somewhat easy, in that the parts should be available and that it's already FAA certified?

Parts would be available, but costly.

Uploading different software into a non-7H4 and rebooting the aircraft is a better solution...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
RyDawg82
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:24 am

Alaska has 3 737-700's heading back to the leasing company either this year or next...I recall reading this when they announced the MD-80 retirement plan...These three birds should be the only ones without winglets...
-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
nosedive
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits. Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

WN's 73G cockpits

...compared to other 73G cockpits

WN 733 cockpits

...and everyone elses

you tell me!

But wouldn't the issue of cockpits be offset a bit by WN's determination to have its pilot's trained to fly all types of their 737s?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 11):
Here is what I am thinking, both CO and AS have large 73G fleets and both airlines now prefer the larger 738 variant of the 737NG family....what if CO or AS were to sell their 73Gs and in turn place an order for additional 738s. Actually, both AS and CO have large 738 orders outstanding, although in both cases the 738s are intended for expansion and to replace older airplanes (in AS's case, 734s and MD80s and in CO's case, 733s).

Do they need $$ for planes or butts in seats right now?
 
dutchjet
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 16):

Do they need $$ for planes or butts in seats right now?

Huh?
 
joffie
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:59 am

Isn't DJ getting rid of their leased 737-700's?
 
KELPkid
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:06 am

Quoting Joffie (Reply 18):
Isn't DJ getting rid of their leased 737-700's?

I thought all the Aussie 737's were specially built to compensate for the Coriolis Force in the Southern Hemisphere being the opposite of it's Northern Hemisphere counterpart  Wink [I'm being fecicious here for those who don't understand humor]

OTOH I believe some of WN's secondhand 733's are ex-Annsett birds.
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OPNLguy
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:12 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 19):
OTOH I believe some of WN's secondhand 733's are ex-Annsett birds.

If there are, they must have been some place else before we got them. The only non-3H4 birds I can readily recall came from AA, Easyjet, Air Berlin, and of course, the Morris Air birds.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
KELPkid
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:14 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 20):
If there are, they must have been some place else before we got them. The only non-3H4 birds I can readily recall came from AA, Easyjet, Air Berlin, and of course, the Morris Air birds.

Oops, maybe that was HP's secondhand 733's...my bad  footinmouth 
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OPNLguy
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):

Oops, maybe that was HP's secondhand 733's...my bad

There could still possibly be some (I'd have to dig), my only point was that if so there was likely another airline user between Ansett and Southwest...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 15):
Alaska has 3 737-700's heading back to the leasing company either this year or next...I recall reading this when they announced the MD-80 retirement plan...These three birds should be the only ones without winglets...

I know that the 3 leased AS 700s are going to go back to the lessors
in the next year, but I have also heard that all the 700s might go away
in favor or 800s.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
OOer
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

I dont think so....we are currently phasing out 735s and if I am not mistaken...we have begun the process of phasing out the 733s...eventually it will be all 737-700...
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 24):
I dont think so....we are currently phasing out 735s and if I am not mistaken...

There are no plans at this time to begin 735 retirement.

Quoting OOer (Reply 24):
.we have begun the process of phasing out the 733s..

The first 733 should begin retiring in 2008-2009, with a substantial fleet staying part of WN opperations into the next decade. The 733 is going to be around for a long time.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 20):
The only non-3H4 birds I can readily recall came from AA, Easyjet, Air Berlin, and of course, the Morris Air birds.

Weren't there some ex-Western Pacific birds, or were those in and out quickly?

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 23):
I know that the 3 leased AS 700s are going to go back to the lessors
in the next year, but I have also heard that all the 700s might go away
in favor or 800s.

Three is a start for WN. Wasn't CO looking at moving out as many as 24 73G's? That'd provide quite a boost in lift. Of course, then you have to wonder where the 738s would be coming from to replace them.

-Dave
-Dave
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 15):
Alaska has 3 737-700's heading back to the leasing company either this year

It's this year...but I thought it was just two 73Gs going back? My figures show 22 in the fleet, with 20 in the fleet in the coming years.

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 23):
I have also heard that all the 700s might go away in favor or 800s.

I suppose it's possible, but unlikely considering all the money that has been spent on retrofitting the owned 73Gs with winglets. Then again, who knows?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
FlyHoss
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 26):
Wasn't CO looking at moving out as many as 24 73G's?

I don't recall that deal, for 24 73Gs to leave CO (though I could be wrong). I do recall a (nearly done) deal for CO to send 4 73Gs to TZ/ATA in an "exchange" for TZ's last four 757-300s.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 28):
I don't recall that deal, for 24 73Gs to leave CO (though I could be wrong). I do recall a (nearly done) deal for CO to send 4 73Gs to TZ/ATA in an "exchange" for TZ's last four 757-300s.

You're right - it was four. That would make a helluva lot more sense too.

-Dave
-Dave
 
Amazonphil
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits. Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

MCOflyer

I believe WN's cockpits are also HUDS(Heads up Display) on most if not all of the 73G's??? That would make them different in even another respect.

amazonphil
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OPNLguy
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 26):
Weren't there some ex-Western Pacific birds, or were those in and out quickly?

Yeah, those too, 4 or 5, I think. I know "Marge" was one of them...

Quoting Amazonphil (Reply 30):
I believe WN's cockpits are also HUDS(Heads up Display) on most if not all of the 73G's??? That would make them different in even another respect.

Yes, everything has a HUD (now that the -200s are gone), but those are secondary to the basic instrument panel. I really don't think we'd want to readily add used -300s that have EADIs/EHSIs and add another difference to the fleet, albeit for a short time until eother the -300s retired, or the "Classic" fleet was refitted with -700 style flat panels.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
N1120A
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting Dbba (Thread starter):
again the legacy carriers and their legacy of "over paid" and yet "under innovative" and "short term" management played right into their hands.....they just never learn. If NWA, US Air and AA think that their capacity reductions do not have long term consequences then they are just kidding themselves.

Nice to see someone who agrees. In all this talk about yields and overcapacity in an environment where you have more people in this country than ever, it seems the economically challenged legacy carrier management seem to have forgotten about revenue streams and economies of scale.

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 2):
but I've heard that MSY is on that list, as well.

Yay!

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

It should surprise you. First, United isn't actively dumping -300s. Second, WN is looking forward, not backward.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits.

The only thing different is the programming of the panels.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):

Just a thought, isnt Easyjet phasing out its 733/73G fleet in favor of A319s.....what is the status of their 73Gs?

According to U2, the 73Gs are supposed to stay quite a while.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 13):
How soon do they need to increase capacity?.

Yesterday

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 14):
Uploading different software into a non-7H4 and rebooting the aircraft is a better solution...

Which takes a mere hour, no?

Quoting OOer (Reply 24):
I dont think so....we are currently phasing out 735s and if I am not mistaken...

We? When did you leave OO?

Quoting OOer (Reply 24):
..eventually it will be all 737-700...

Actually, it will likely never be all 73W. Y1 will be out before the last WN -300 is retired
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
A350
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:12 pm

If they can get 73Gs for a good deal, they'll certainly do it. However, they are rare on the market and probably not much cheaper than new a/c. I wonder why they don't look for newer 735s/733s. They are better available on the 2nd hand market, i.e. more choice, cheaper, and faster to get. And they'll be ready to phase out exactly when the Y1 comes to the market. They can also order more new 73Gs and use 2nd hand in the meanwhile.

A350
 
pavlin
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:02 pm

This year I think Southwest will be the number one in RPK
 
Scorpio
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:11 pm

Let's not forget WN already operates two second-hand 73Gs (N798SW and N799SW), so adjusting them to their standards doesn't look like it'll be a problem.
 
RyDawg82
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:26 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 27):
It's this year...but I thought it was just two 73Gs going back? My figures show 22 in the fleet, with 20 in the fleet in the coming years.


I'd hazard a guess that 629, 645, 647 are without winglets and are slated for return to CITG at whatever time AS has planned...

648, 649 are through ILFC...But I don't think were the birds in question...
-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
f4f3a
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:56 am

There has been rumours that easyjets early leased 700s were going to be taken over by southwest possibly by the end of the year.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 35):
Let's not forget WN already operates two second-hand 73Gs (N798SW and N799SW), so adjusting them to their standards doesn't look like it'll be a problem.

One was ex-Eastwind and the other ex-BWIA (never can remember which), and standardizing the cockpits was a snap compared with the galleys. I think they changed them out when the birds went in for paint/winglets/HUD installations.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
kaitak744
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits. Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.



Quoting Nosedive (Reply 16):
you tell me!

But wouldn't the issue of cockpits be offset a bit by WN's determination to have its pilot's trained to fly all types of their 737s?

Uh, I am about 90% sure about this, but didn't Boeing design the 737NG cockpits so they would be modern yet have maximum commonality with older 737s? I do think the screen configuration you see in the pictures of the other 737NGs can be easily changed to the "old" (Southwest) format by just turning a knob (or pushing a button).

All 737-700s should be the same.
 
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STT757
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
They are looking, but where is Southwest going to find used 73Gs in the near term future?

How much control over ATA does WN have, they could go back to the trade with CO (737-700s for the last four of ATA's 757-300s).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
OPNLguy
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 40):
How much control over ATA does WN have,

None; all there is is a code share...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:41 am

While slightly off topic I think buying Aloha could be a great move for Southwest. I imagine the value of the airline is less than what their aircraft are worth.

They have a sizeable fleet of 73G's which could be utilized better by increasing flights to the mainland where Southwest has a sizeable market presense.
 
dutchjet
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 40):

How much control over ATA does WN have, they could go back to the trade with CO (737-700s for the last four of ATA's 757-300s).

Firstly, I dont think that ATA is ready to part with their four 753s....until ATA gets its longhaul situation figured out and replaces its L1011 with another type (some think 763s, others say DC10s) and has a longterm solution for its high capacity, longhaul needs (think all of those lucrative military charters)....ATA needs those 757-300s. The other point is whether ATA still needs or wants 73Gs in their fleet: the CO/ATA swap seemed like a good idea at the time but its unclear whether it still makes sense. ATA has acquired a handful of 733s (ex-UA airplanes) for shorter haul/lower demand routes which is probably a more cost effective solution than the 73Gs.

--------

Aside from picking up used 73Gs one at a time from various sources as airplanes come off of leases (which Southwest will probably do....when Southwest talks, people listen, and Southwest will get first shot at just about every 73G that comes on to the market)......there are only three airlines that seriously would consider dumping their significant 73G fleets:

1. EASYJET - Easyjet just retired the last of their 733s and now fly a mixed 73G and A319 fleet....Easyjet has a huge number of A319s on order and although the plan was always for Easyjet to fly a mixed 73G/A319 fleet for years to come, if the right deal could be made, Easyjet could order more A319s and release the 73Gs to Southwest. The question of course is delivery times and how to make this deal work.

2. ALASKA - AS has a good sized 73G fleet.....and after years of focusing on the 73G and 739, AS seems to have decided that the 738 is now their favorite flavor of 737NG. AS has 738s on order (intended for expansion and as 734/MD80 replacements I believe).....maybe they could be persuaded to give up some of their 73Gs. Some posters above have indicated that the leases on some of AS's 73Gs are expiring in the near term future, so those airplanes will likely go to Southwest.

3. CONTINENTAL - CO has let it be known that they also prefer the larger 737NG variants and would be more than happy to dump their 73Gs for 738s....CO finds the 73Gs small for the longer haul routes that the 737NGs are flying. CO does have a good number of 738s on order.....nearly 70 I believe with the latest orders (although CO has not disclosed which variant of 737NG they want for the lastest order for 24) , but those aircraft are intended for continued expansion (ie, replacing 752s that now spend most of their time over the Atlantic) and to replace the 733 fleet. There is probably a deal to be made between CO, Southwest, Boeing and the leasing companies.....so much depends upon aircraft delivery schedules, financial factors and the like....but Boeing can come up with some rather clever solutions especially when two of its best customers are involved.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 33):
I wonder why they don't look for newer 735s/733s

One, they are too old. Two, most newer ones would require significant refitting.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 39):
Uh, I am about 90% sure about this, but didn't Boeing design the 737NG cockpits so they would be modern yet have maximum commonality with older 737s? I do think the screen configuration you see in the pictures of the other 737NGs can be easily changed to the "old" (Southwest) format by just turning a knob (or pushing a button

It is a bit more complicated than that. They have to bring a laptop on board and reprogram and reboot the plane. It takes something like 1-2 hours

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 42):
While slightly off topic I think buying Aloha could be a great move for Southwest. I imagine the value of the airline is less than what their aircraft are worth.

WN has no need for AQ's debt load, their 732s or their certainly high costs of aircraft ownership
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
thering
Posts: 527
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RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:08 am

They are in the same case of GOL. Wanting 2nd hand 737-700 for strong expansion while wait for their new ones but can´t find. It´s hard to think on a airline that wants to get rid of 737-700 now a days. GOL looks after a couple of ex-Varig, theses are the only ones I can think about...
They should start to think about 737-500 for the moment, as these one is a bit more modern then the 737-300
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dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Thering (Reply 45):
They should start to think about 737-500 for the moment, as these one is a bit more modern then the 737-300

735 more modern than the 733.......not really, both are 2nd generation 737s and so much depends upon how the original operator equipped the airplane. Southwest is not interested in 735s, and I dont think that GOL is either....neither wants the smaller airplane, less seats means higher per seat operating costs which is something low fare operators must avoid. The 733s can accomodate about 20 more passengers with very small extra costs....
 
thering
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:44 am

RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 46):
less seats means higher per seat operating costs

So why no 737-800 for WN?? Or even 737-900ER...
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dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Thering (Reply 47):

So why no 737-800 for WN?? Or even 737-900ER

The 738 would require an extra F/A....one F/A is required for every 50 passengers, and the 738 would carry more than 150 passengers.....so Southwest is not flying the 738 although, per rumor, Southwest studied the type and did consider adding it to the fleet at one time.

Southwest if focused on keeping things simple.....every Southwest flight goes out with 2 pilots and 3 F/As, end of story!

As for the 739ER....also unlikely, it would be a big airplane for Southwest with 180 or more seats, the Southwest business model is based on frequency so big airplanes are not a huge priority. Also consider that Southwest has rather low load factors compared to most other US airlines so bigger airplanes are not really necessary just yet.
 
Amazonphil
Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:37 pm

RE: WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 46):
Quoting Thering (Reply 45):
They should start to think about 737-500 for the moment, as these one is a bit more modern then the 737-300

735 more modern than the 733.......not really, both are 2nd generation 737s and so much depends upon how the original operator equipped the airplane. Southwest is not interested in 735s, and I dont think that GOL is either....neither wants the smaller airplane, less seats means higher per seat operating costs which is something low fare operators must avoid. The 733s can accomodate about 20 more passengers with very small extra costs....

This is exactly the reason that CO wanted to rid of the 735 at one time and still do although not as urgently now with the 73Gs and 738s online. CO accquired the 735s in a "throw in deal" involving the 752s although not sure of the logistics. (Can you elaborate Dutchjet??) But the 733 is a better deal in economy over the 735
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!

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