BOE773
Topic Author
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:02 am

BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:20 am

72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.
 
donder10
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:21 am

Discuss?
 
Leezyjet
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:49 am

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.

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BOE773
Topic Author
Posts: 413
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:17 am

Source: ACI.

72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.

This corporate cartel needs to be deregulated soon.
The travelling public must demand it as well.
BA/LHR/Bermuda2 needs to be broken up and let competiition reign supreme.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.

How would breaking up BAA provide more choice?

While I don't live in the UK, I don't believe BAA all that poor of a job. Updating an operating airport is very difficult, and when I look at what BAA is doing at Heathrow versus the MIA reconstruction, I'd have to say from a passenger standpoint, BAA does a fine job.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
BOE773
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:31 am

Competition is the way of the free enterprise system my friend.
 
halls120
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
Competition is the way of the free enterprise system my friend.

Yes, it is. But when there are international agreements that restrict the number of flights between countries, how is breaking up the BAA near monopoly going to make things better for UK aviation?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Gman94
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:50 am

Well there is fierce competition between airlines in the UK already, breaking up BAA would not make it more competitve then it already is. And you can't move Edinburgh airport to London so that two companies can compete with each other effectively. LHR will always be the crown jewels and the company that own's it will always be in a dominate position.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
Gemuser
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 7):
Well there is fierce competition between airlines in the UK already, breaking up BAA would not make it more competitve then it already is. And you can't move Edinburgh airport to London so that two companies can compete with each other effectively. LHR will always be the crown jewels and the company that own's it will always be in a dominate position.

Well true, but but you could have LHR, LGW & STN under different owners and promote compertation that way. This was one of the major critisims leveled at the BAA privatation at the time, that airports that did (at least to some extent) compete with each other were being sold as a monopoly. However even the Thatcher government sucumbed to the bigger bucks (GBP) to be made by selling it as a monopoly operator in London.

Gemuser
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BOE773
Topic Author
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 7):

So true, and that's why BA is the dominant carrier with the crown jewels at LHR. From the travelling pubic's perspective, fares would be driven lower if there was more competition thru LHR. AA, BA; etc do not want more competition here. Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.
 
Gemuser
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
Quoting Gman94 (Reply 7):
So true, and that's why BA is the dominant carrier with the crown jewels at LHR. From the travelling pubic's perspective, fares would be driven lower if there was more competition thru LHR. AA, BA; etc do not want more competition here. Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.

A??? How do you come to this conclusion from the fact that all three London area airports are owned by BAA???

Realistically, with different owners LGW & STN would be promoting them selves as alternatives to LHR, and would, we may assume, have some succes. This very well may attract some traffic from LHR, but reduce LHRs domaniance, to a major extent, I doubt. At least with BII still in place, but even then both LHR & LGW remain slot constrained.

Gemuser
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cloudyapple
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
So true, and that's why BA is the dominant carrier with the crown jewels at LHR. From the travelling pubic's perspective, fares would be driven lower if there was more competition thru LHR. AA, BA; etc do not want more competition here. Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.

That has nothing to do with BAA.



So airlines will suddenly flock to Gatwick and Ryainair will start flying from Heathrow if it was sold to MAG?

Can we have some more intelligent discussions?
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
BOE773
Topic Author
Posts: 413
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:20 pm

a european hub needs to be developed on continental europe which would eliminate a lot of the passenger shuttling back and forth to an island hub (lhr).
 
rtfm
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:29 pm

Sigh...

OK BOE773 clearly has a downer on BA (and all things British..) but, here we go:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 3):
BA/LHR/Bermuda2 needs to be broken up and let competiition reign supreme.

BA needs to be broken up? Why? And what has that got to do with BAA owning a large number of UK airports. They aren't the same company... And as you point out in one of your other nonsensical threads, BA's short-haul operation is going to disappear in the face of FR and the other LCCs, so hardly any point in 'breaking them up'... sarcastic 

LHR needs to broken up? Huh???

Bermuda 2? Has absolutely nothing to do with BAA's ownership of a majority of UK airports.

If you think that there is genuine reason for breaking BAA's near monopoly of London airports fine, but try to introduce some logical and rational arguments rather than just turning it into another anti-BA/all things British rant.

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
From the travelling pubic's perspective, fares would be driven lower if there was more competition thru LHR.

Probably, but again, the restriction on competition between the UK and the US is because of Bermuda 2 and not because BAA happens to own LHR, LGW and STN.

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.

OK, that would be a duopoly then.... And who exactly is going to 'bust this up'? And why? The only reason that BA and AC are the only carriers between LHR and Canada is because they are the only ones who want to at the moment. There is absolutely nothing to stop VS (who had a flight to YYZ for a short period), BD or any other UK or Canadian carrier flying LHR (or any other UK airport) to Canada. Again, BAA's ownership of UK airports is completely unrelated to your utterly nonsensical statement.....

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 12):
a european hub needs to be developed on continental europe which would eliminate a lot of the passenger shuttling back and forth to an island hub (lhr).

Huh????? By who? Sorry, but have your ever heard of CDG, AMS, FRA (do I need to go on??).

Oh good grief.....
 
ANother
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:54 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.

Gee, I thought they had an open skies agreement. While I don't see WestJet or bmi rushing to enter the market you cannot consider two airilines that compete heavily to be a Monopoly. If fact it is likely that the degree of competition between these two is one of the factors that deter others from entering the market.

btw - why are now flying the Canadian flag? Didn't you have an Irish one the other day? (I also note that your user profile is (not) very imformative). If you aren't a Canadian or a Canadian resident, which I suspect - would you kindly reveal your true spots? Thank you.
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting RTFM (Reply 13):
Sigh...

OK BOE773 clearly has a downer on BA (and all things British..)

Damn right he does.

Its obvious in the short time that he has been here that BOE773 does not like BA or Britain in general. Pretty much the only posts he has made is slagging off BA, LHR, Rolls Royce, BAA, Farnborough, etc. He contributes hardly anything else to any other thread.

things certainly aren't perfect here - but he doesn't seem to be highly critcal of anywhere else other than this country. no criticsm of US legacy carriers, etc.

His remarks shows he knows nothing about BA or British aviation and the pettiness and lack of knowledge of the subject shows he either has a grievance towards the UK or BA and has to resort to childish remarks on a.net or he works for another carrier - which i would find very hard to believe.

My money is on him having applied for a job and got rejected myself.

Either way somebody of his age needs to grow up.


some examples.....
World's Worst International Airport For Delays. (by BOE773 Jul 12 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2873290
RE: BA 747-400 (3 Of Them In YVR In One Day) (by BOE773 Jul 23 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2894455
Will RR Be Reduced To Subcontracting? (by BOE773 Jul 13 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2877143
Ryanair Will Trump BA? (by BOE773 Jul 23 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2894064
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
BOE773
Topic Author
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:10 am

Can't take some good old criticism fellas?
You all are so hi on your hosses about BA and RR that you're losing sight of the others out there. Well I guess it's about all you've got now! I just get sick and tired of all the useless BA threads on airliners.net.
 
BA787
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:40 pm

RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:21 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
pubic's

Didn't now pubes went on journeys with airlines, di they carry them in the cargo hold of AC aircraft?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:30 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.

Look, you seem to be some sort of Ryanair plant or the like, similar to the user who was named Eos757 pitching EOS when they were starting up. Anyway, my issue with BAA isn't their monopoly per se, it is the fact that a private company is running an inherently governmental entity. The LAWA model is a much better one and one that actually benefits consumers, airlines (LAX has the lowest fees of any major hub airport) and the government alike. The whole PPP thing in the UK has served to do nothing but increase costs to the public while maintaining subsidized profit margins from the national government. What should be done is the airports be taken over by local authorities (the London airports by TfL for example) and the rails reintegrated into a governmental yet quasi-private company like Die Bahn.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
steve7e7
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:55 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 16):
I just get sick and tired of all the useless BA threads on airliners.net

So do we, only you seem to keep posting them.
 
TheSorcerer
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:35 am

RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:19 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 10):
How do you come to this conclusion from the fact that all three London area airports are owned by BAA???

What about Luton and London City?

Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4321
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:03 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 20):
What about Luton and London City?

Neither of which has the runway length or space to mount serious compertation to LHR< LGW or STN.

Gemuser
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gilesdavies
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RE: BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:01 am

Luton has submitted plans for a 3000m runway to be built before 2012 and the current runway will no longer be used, similar to runway 26R/8L at LGW. This also includes a new terminal and apron to south of the current runway, which will be capable of handling 30 million pax a year.

If these plans do happen and are built this will provide London with an alternative to the three other major BAA airports in the London area.

But if airlines really want to switch to LTN really remains to be seen and I am not really all that optimistic. But may offer other airlines that do not currently fly to the London area an option of airports to fly to, especially if they fly larger equipment which LTN cannot currently handle.

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