ZRH
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Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:10 pm

In the NZZ am Sonntag is an interesting article about Swiss that they probabely want to lease four A 340-300 from Air Canada from 2007 on. They say that this would be possible because of the better performing and the new agreement with the pilots. But they also say in the article that they have to stay realistic and that LH gives them a tight target regarding the figures.
If this became true this would be a huge step on Swiss' long-haul service, considering that this year they already will get two new 332. This would make 6 new long-haul aircrafts till 2007.
Here is the article (only in German).
http://www.nzz.ch/2006/07/23/wi/articleEBKO6.html

[Edited 2006-07-23 14:13:41]

[Edited 2006-07-23 14:14:44]
 
legacy135
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:17 pm

Thank you for the link ZRH! If this becomes truth, our Swiss aviation industry is definitely on track, including LX. The signs are good, lets keep the fingers crossed,

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink
 
EI321
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:29 pm

BTW, when do AC's first 777s arrive?
 
swissy
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:35 pm

That would be great new for LX and us......... lets hope it will happen.

What I have heart last was early 2007 should be the time for the first AC T7

Cheers,
 
Cruiser
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
BTW, when do AC's first 777s arrive?

I believe they receive 8 next year with the first one arriving in March. So next year, we will see 4 300ER's and 4 LR's join the fleet.

I cannot wait!!

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
CV990
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:24 pm

Hi ZRH!

Good to see you back! I want to use famous Martin Luther King words "I Have a dream!"...and my dream would be...seeing SWISS ordering the A350 during 2007 to start replacing the A330's and latter the A340s!!! That would be a great "dream"! But looking to the possibility that SWISS can get those AC 343's, at least give me a great sign that SWISS is emerging has one of the best airlines in the world, with a great network...like in the old days!!! I think swiss aviation deserve that and SWISS have a place for that!!!
I have now a schedule visit to Congo early next year and in my mind I said - "If this was a few years ago, I would certainly fly SWISS or Swissair...", I keep chasing this dream, to have SWISS flying all over the world again!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
briboy
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:38 pm

Yes, AC is getting 8 777s next year, see:

press release

and

press release

The first release gives 8 as the number of 777s for 2007, with the second indicating March 2007 for first delivery.

/Brian
next up: YYC, SFO, SYD, AKL, WLG, CMB, BKK, SIN, FRA, VCE, JFK
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 5):
.seeing SWISS ordering the A350 during 2007 to start replacing the A330's and latter the A340s!!

Considering the time till the 350 will enter service I can see Swiss ordering them. Their 330/340 are not too old but in some time they anyhow have to think about the renewal of the fleet. But this most probably will not happen 2007 yet.

[Edited 2006-07-23 16:02:04]
 
CV990
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:05 pm

Hi ZRH!

Well, I understand your view and probably also SWISS view, we have SWISS A330's with about 7 years now and the A340's are even younger....but it will be a "hell of a great airliner" with SWISS colours don't you think???
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 8):
.but it will be a "hell of a great airliner" with SWISS colours don't you think???

I absolutely agree with you. It would be great to see the 350 in Swiss colours. Let's hope so.  Smile
 
CV990
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:15 pm

Hi ZRH!

Don't worry, those guys will certainly order the A350!!! It's interesting to see that during all these decades swiss aviation and portuguese aviation have been quite close. It all started in early 60's when TAP wanted to buy two Swissair DC-8-30's....latter we got 3 of Swissair A330-200's ( by the way TP is very happy with these airplanes...), 1 A319 and 1 A320...all ex: Swissair. Now TP have an order for 12 A350's and I expect an order for SWISS A350 in the future!!! And we are both at Star Alliance!!!! Very interesting!!!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:19 pm

Hi CV 990

You are right. It also will be interesting what LH will order. Perhaps they make a larger order of 350 for LH and LX.
 
CV990
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:24 pm

Hey ZRH!!! I'm counting on that!!!! TP got them, I'm sure LH/LX will need them in the future!!!! I hope those guys at LH/LX listen to you and me!!!! Even with all this "mess" and "noise" regarding the A350, TP NEVER even got close to cancel the order!!!! We have a great plane comming in I tell you!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
YoungFlyer
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:26 pm

Does anyone know if the leased A340's will be outfitted with LX's personal entertainment system? as far as i know AC does not have PTV's on their A340's while LX has AVOD on their A340's.
Dan
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind" -Gandhi
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:27 pm

CV990

BTW I like your username. My first flight as a boy was on a Swissair CV990 Coronado from Zurich to Athens in 1972. I was very impressed and remember the cabin as very spacious.
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:30 pm

Quoting Youngflyer (Reply 13):
Does anyone know if the leased A340's will be outfitted with LX's personal entertainment system

I think this is not the question at the moment. It is by fare not yet sure that they really get those AC 340. When the contract is fixed we will see if they will keep the AC interior or change to Swiss standards.
 
CV990
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:32 pm

Hi ZRH!!!

Please...don't even talk about that...( just kidding of course...)! I remember well in mid 70's seeing EVERY DAY SR flying their SR690 LIS/GVA/ZRH with the good old Convair CV990 Coronado!!!! Just a great site at LIS airport! I'm sincerely glad that you ever had the chance to fly that great airplane. My first flight was indeed also with SR in 1979 but......it was unfortunetely HB-ISR, a DC-9-51 from SR too.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:38 pm

What about getting their A340-500s? It may be a good addition Swiss' lonh-haul service.

DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:44 pm

Swiss could very well do with the extra capacity to supplement existing longhaul service on core routes to daily service. Such daily operations are necessary to stand a better chance of attracting premium traffic. Longhaul routes lacking daily service include BKK, SIN, NRT, JNB, GRU, and, if they decide to keep it, LAX. MIA services will become daily with the addition of 2 A332 frames later in the year. As for NRT, LX has had the rights to operate daily services for about 3 years now, but have so far not done so.

As for future growth, I can see Swiss reopening the ZRH-IAD route, given the new UA partnership, and a return to China is very much on the cards as well. I've never really understood why they abandoned China at a time when other European carriers were stampeding for China rights in the first place.
 
swissy
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting Youngflyer (Reply 13):
Does anyone know if the leased A340's will be outfitted with LX's personal entertainment system? as far as i know AC does not have PTV's on their A340's while LX has AVOD on their A340's.

Believe me if that deal happens they sure will get the "Swiss" interior as these birds still have the "old" AC color and look pretty tiered.

Cheers,
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 17):
What about getting their A340-500s? It may be a good addition Swiss' lonh-haul service.

Why the A 340-500? I agree it is probably the best looking 340 but Swiss does not have these ultra long haul routes which would legitimate to buy these birds. All the long Swiss routes to SIN, BKK, NRT, LAX or GRU can be flown easily with the 340-300. The 340-500 is actually only a niche aircraft like the 777LR is.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:49 pm

AC is getting 5 B773ER , the fifth being leased through IFLC.

I've herd that some A340's maybe withdrawn from AC's fleet as early as Q4 2006. I'm sure that if Swiss get's the ex AC 340's they will want to significantly improve the interior. AC's A340 fleet was delivered between 1996 and 1999.



KrisYYZ
 
aircanada014
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:17 am

Its nice to see fellow member star alliance helping one another. Lets hope Swiss gets AC A340s. Nice to see Swiss back on the right track. I wish them well  Smile One thing I'm so happy was Swiss joining Star Alliance, I remember long time ago AC and SR were a very good partners in the early 90s and late 80s too if I do recall?.. Its nice to see Swiss back in partnership with AC.
 
747400F
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:29 am

I keep hearing that the AC 340 will be going to Europe, but Northern Europe ie. SAS
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
dutchjet
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:43 am

My goodness, such excitement over four used airplanes?!

First, does AC own the four A343s in question? I thought that most of the AC A340 fleet was leased.

Second, why would AC lease the airplanes to Swiss? Thats an unususal financal arrangement and AC would probably like to get the A343s off of their books......I would expect a third party lessor to come in and arrange this deal, if its happening.

Third, what would LX do with two A345s? There are no existing or potential routes that would require that type.

---------

AC has a mix of A340-300 and A340-300X aircraft - I assume that Swiss is interested in the slightly newer 300X variants?
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:46 am

Are the AC A343s even owned? If not, LX or SK or whoever were planning to get its hands on those airframes would be dealing with the respective leasing companies rather than with AC as such.
 
RJ100
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:54 am

According to my knowledge the aircraft are owned by ILFC.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
dutchjet
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 26):
According to my knowledge the aircraft are owned by ILFC.

Well, now this is starting to make some sense.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:06 am

Wonder how AC 777 look in the famous toothpaste c/s?

Maybe Kingfisher buys 2 A345 from AC. Time will tell...

Micke//SWE  

[Edited 2006-07-23 18:09:04]
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
aircanada014
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:18 am

check out the pictures.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/facts/documents/AC_777.jpg Here's the other picture of B787http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/facts/documents/AC_787.jpg
 
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solnabo
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:20 am

I rest my case!!AC pics....

Micke/SWE   

[Edited 2006-07-23 18:24:39]
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
CV990
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:36 am

Hi!

I sincerly think SWISS needs extra capacity, but I also agree with ZRH, SWISS doesn't need the A340-500!!! So SWISS can add those AC 343's ( I also think they should get the 300X version...similar do the ones they have! ) but also I think that this means that SWISS will need to retrofit those AC 343X to SWISS standards right??? Another option could be to get some leased Airbuses fresh from the factory!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 31):
I sincerly think SWISS needs extra capacity

As I said before, priorities should be to complement existing core longhaul destinations to daily service. Extra frequencies to NRT, BKK-SIN, JNB, GRU and LAX will need more than one extra airframe. As for longhaul growth, I could easily see a return to China, which would require another airframe, and the addition of a transatlantic route - likely ZRH-IAD - which would require another aircraft. All in all, the addition of 4 aircraft seems about just right for LX's short and midterm longhaul expansion.
 
ka
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:52 am

I think there are quite some people at LX wishing they hadn´t cancelled the remaining 3 options they held for the A343. They would come very handy now. And they wouldn´t have to worry about bringing 2nd hand a/c up to the high LX interior standard.

On the other hand 7 to 10 y/o A343s will be alot cheaper to lease than new ones and a new interior will easily pay off - given that they have a longterm plan to exchange the whole fleet of A332 + A343 with next generation a/c soon after they become available (which I think they will do).

Greetings,
KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 20):
Why the A 340-500? I agree it is probably the best looking 340 but Swiss does not have these ultra long haul routes which would legitimate to buy these birds. All the long Swiss routes to SIN, BKK, NRT, LAX or GRU can be flown easily with the 340-300.

While I agree LX going for more A343 would make sense, I hear they have major problems with departing at MTOW out of ZRH, which is why, if I'm not mistaken, they had to introduce new departure procedures to accommodate the A343. Those problems can be alleviated with the A345. However, given LX's current network and since AC only has two of them, it may make even less sense, as they can only be used on one flight (e.g. ZRH-SIN). So LX should get those A343s for expansion in frequencies and so their flights doesn't suffer from any possible aircraft shortage in the near future. Thus, the A345s would only be an option for LX if it was about a deal for 4 frames minimum.

And although the A350 would make sense for LX, somehow I'd like to see LX reactivate the old SR customer code at Boeing and get some 787-857s. Big grin
 
Skookum
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:34 am

I am terribly sad to see the A343 and A345 leaving the AC fleet in favour of the T7, and even more sad that we never saw the A346 in AC colours!

I hope Swiss does decide to take this beauties.

Cheers
Skookum
Good flying
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 34):
While I agree LX going for more A343 would make sense, I hear they have major problems with departing at MTOW out of ZRH, which is why, if I'm not mistaken, they had to introduce new departure procedures to accommodate the A343.

Never heard of such problems, and I am quite surprised to hear about them. Furthermore, earlier A343 operators into ZRH, including Cathay, Air China and Air Canada, seemed to never have complained about such probems. Why would LX face MTOW problems with the A343 where there were no such issues with the MD11?

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 34):
Those problems can be alleviated with the A345. However, given LX's current network and since AC only has two of them, it may make even less sense, as they can only be used on one flight (e.g. ZRH-SIN).

ZRH-SIN is not currently served as a nonstop but goes via BKK. LX's longest flight right now is ZRH-NRT (5977 miles), closely followed by ZRH-GRU (5957 miles) and ZRH-LAX (5939 miles). After that come HKG (5788 mi), BKK (5614 mi) and JNB (5211 mi). Neither of those destinations should pose a problem for the A343. Back in the days of the MD11, Swissair used to have problems on the nonstop ZRH-SIN route and occasionally, in case of unfavorable winds, on the westbound sector of the ZRH-HKG-ZRH routes. On those routes, the MD11 could take payload restrictions.
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 5):
seeing SWISS ordering the A350 during 2007 to start replacing the A330's and latter the A340s!!!

There's no point in replacing them, for several reasons.
1) I love the A332, and if it got replaced I'd be very disappointed.
2) The planes are not old by any means, and can serve a lot longer until they are in need of replacement. If it ain't broke, don't replace it.
3) The A350 has had some snags. I'm sure it will be a great aircraft, but I think that if LX decides to order they will either wait until it has been proven and has been broken in by other airlines, or until some relatively new used ones are available.

Quoting Youngflyer (Reply 13):
while LX has AVOD on their A340's.

It is not exactly AVOD. The movies all start at once and you can only watch it starting at that time, otherwise you start in the middle. See my trip reports in the TR forum about it.

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 17):
What about getting their A340-500s? It may be a good addition Swiss' lonh-haul service.

They don't need the range, since they probably won't start flights to insanely far destinations. Also, the four-engines are less efficient, no? Why diversify their fleet even more? You'd have to train the SR technics people for a new aircraft, which takes time and money. If the A350 was a replacement aircraft for the 343's, then maybe it would be worth it, but not as an addition.

As for LX needing more capacity. Why not order (or find) some new (or used) A333's? They'd get the capacity of the 343's and the efficiency and commonality of the two-engined aircraft class.

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
Skookum
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 37):
There's no point in replacing them, for several reasons.
1) I love the A332, and if it got replaced I'd be very disappointed.

Well, when you put it like that...  Big grin

Cheers
Skookum
Good flying
 
dutchjet
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 37):
1) I love the A332,

I think that you need to get out more.
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting Skookum (Reply 38):

Well, when you put it like that... Big grin

Obviously reason number one is because of me!

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 39):
I think that you need to get out more.

I do get out more, my other loves are Concorde, A333, 773, A345, and 722.

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
dutchjet
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 40):
I do get out more, my other loves are Concorde, A333, 773, A345, and 722.

You are unfaithful......I hope that you play safe..
 
Skookum
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 40):
I do get out more, my other loves are Concorde, A333, 773, A345, and 722.

Good on you.

Dutchjet, do you find it all that suprising that you may find some true airliner buffs on this forum?

Cheers
Skookum
Good flying
 
briboy
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting Skookum (Reply 38):
As for LX needing more capacity. Why not order (or find) some new (or used) A333's? They'd get the capacity of the 343's and the efficiency and commonality of the two-engined aircraft class.

I think the key is availability. Where would the 333s come? AC is dropping them, but not this year, nor next. 343s are hard enough to get -- esp. 343x -- it would make sense for LX to pick them up if they can get them!

/Brian
next up: YYC, SFO, SYD, AKL, WLG, CMB, BKK, SIN, FRA, VCE, JFK
 
CV990
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:31 am

Hi ANITIX87!

I agree with Skookum.....the way you emphasise the love for the A330-200 there's "no way" SWISS will EVER get rid of those airplanes!!!! And never forget that we (TAP) have 3 ex: Swissair too!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 36):
Never heard of such problems, and I am quite surprised to hear about them. Furthermore, earlier A343 operators into ZRH, including Cathay, Air China and Air Canada, seemed to never have complained about such probems. Why would LX face MTOW problems with the A343 where there were no such issues with the MD11?

It was something I heard on a Swiss aviation forum. Maybe I misinterpreted that or don't remember exactly, I read that a long time ago anyway.
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 45):
It was something I heard on a Swiss aviation forum. Maybe I misinterpreted that or don't remember exactly, I read that a long time ago anyway.

Actually they don't have any runway problems, the runways are fare long enough. But because of the slow climbing performance of the 343 they have to use some different procedures after take off. It is not a big issue.
 
ka
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 37):
It is not exactly AVOD.

Well, the last few times I flew on LX A343s it was full AVOD - and nothing less. Starting, stopping, rewinding films and music at any time. Not so on the A332 though.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 37):

As for LX needing more capacity. Why not order (or find) some new (or used) A333's? They'd get the capacity of the 343's and the efficiency and commonality of the two-engined aircraft class.

Why should they take A333?? Not even their A332 will be able to do flights to BKK, GRU, NRT, AND OLD: Hong Kong - Kai Tak International (HKG / VHHH) (closed), China - Hong Kong">HKG, LAX, SIN, JNB with any decent payload. But these are the routes LX needs the a/c for to increase frequency. So you couldn´t even substitute an A332 to JFK by an A333 as you couldn´t fly the A332 then to GRU etc and carry pax AND cargo.

KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 46):
Actually they don't have any runway problems, the runways are fare long enough. But because of the slow climbing performance of the 343 they have to use some different procedures after take off. It is not a big issue.

That's what I meant, the departure procedures after T/O. I never said anything about the runway length (specifically 14/32 and 16/34) affecting climb performance at MTOW.  Smile
 
ka
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RE: Swiss To Lease 4 A 343 From AC?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 46):
But because of the slow climbing performance of the 343 they have to use some different procedures after take off. It is not a big issue.

Well, they take the same procedures as anybody else, too. The climb performance will result in a later or no direct routing - which is no different to SAA´s A342 or SIA B744 or SWR RJ100.

KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!

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