WorldTraveller
Topic Author
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A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 4:22 pm

Dear aviation fans,

we can now look forward to see one of the greatest aircraft ever designed in service from 2005 on! A great day for aviation!

EADS and BAe Systems in Paris today (Friday morning)announced that the Airbus A3XX will be build and that firm orders can be signed now.

The A3XX final assembly will be in Toulouse, Hamburg will do the interior and the paint-job.

Well, did somebody say "the A3XX will never fly"?    

Anybody wants to guess which airline will be the launch customer??

Regards,
a happy WorldTraveller 
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 4:34 pm

Well, SIA and Emirates are the potential buyers of the A3XX so...
 
WorldTraveller
Topic Author
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Press Release

Fri Jun 23, 2000 4:42 pm

Here is a press release taken from Yahoo News:

(REUTERS)

Quote:

"Airbus Launches Superjumbo

PARIS (Reuters) - Partners in European planemaker Airbus Industrie gave the group the go-ahead to offer its superjumbo A3XX airplane to airlines on Friday and said they had struck a landmark deal to turn the consortium into a corporation.

After years of struggling to transform Airbus and get the 555-seat double-decker aircraft off the ground, the partners effectively accomplished both feats in one fell swoop.

``This is an historic day for Airbus,'' EADS co-chief executive Philippe Camus said. ``Our landmark agreement and the authorization to offer for the A3XX are tremendous news for the European aerospace industry.''

The A3XX, which is scheduled to be launched formally by the end of the year once Airbus has signed firm contracts with airlines, is designed to end arch-rival Boeing's monopoly of the large aircraft market.

The long-distance plane will be able to fly 15,000 km non-stop, traveling from Sydney to Los Angeles without needing to refuel.

``Construction will be launched at the end of the year 2000. We already have very very good indications...we already have close to eight airline companies interested and more than 50 planes practically ordered,'' Camus said in an interview with France 2 television.

``The first delivery will be at the end of 2005...the first passengers will be able to use the 3XX at the end of 2005.''

He said the launch of the new plane would involve 160,000 workers in Europe, creating an estimated 40,000 to 50,000 new jobs.

The transformation of Airbus into what will be called the Airbus Integrated Company (AIC) is expected to create annual cost savings of roughly 350 million euros by 2004, making the group a more efficient competitor.

The merger of three of the Toulouse-based consortium's four members -- Aerospatiale Matra, DaimlerChrysler Aerospace and Spain's Casa -- to form the European Aeronautics, Defense and Space Company (EADS) paved the way for both announcements.

After months of talks EADS, which starts a public share offering on Friday and lists on the Paris and Frankfurt stock markets on July 10, struck a deal with 20 percent Airbus shareholder BAE Systems Plc to bring Airbus under the EADS umbrella.

Under the deal, BAE will retain its stake and have a say in strategic decisions. Physical assembly of the A3XX will take place in Toulouse, France, while interior furnishing and customization will be done in Hamburg."

End quote.

Regards,
the WorldTraveller

 
Amir
Posts: 1224
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 4:45 pm

HI Worldtraveller,

Are you sure about this? what i heared in the news (2 hours ago) is that they advised a date where they will give the final desicion for this. So according to this, the launch confirmation is not given yet.

thanks/best rgds
Amir

 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 4:47 pm

It's been Authorized To Offer (to airlines), not launched. When there are enough signed firm orders then it will be formally launched.
 
gerardo
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 4:50 pm

Well, today (friday, 23 June 2000) at 8.00 AM, I saw an interview with P. Camus, where he confirmed these news.

Gerardo

You can find more about Airbus at
http://www.egroups.com/group/airbus
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
WorldTraveller
Topic Author
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 5:09 pm

Well, the news are correct Amir, go to Yahoo News or ftd.de/ft.com to see it!

There are actually different "launches":

A commercial launch is what has taken place today (ATO).

The industrial launch will probably take place by the end of this year when Airbus has enough firm orders to begin production of this plane.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Regards,
the WorldTraveller
 
WorldTraveller
Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 1999 3:47 am

Airbus Website

Fri Jun 23, 2000 5:25 pm

I just visited Airbus' website and they've have updated it very nicely with the A3XX and the launch news!

Have a look if you want:

http://www.airbus.com

"Airbus A3XX, even closer than you thought."
Nice slogan, isn't it?  

Regards,
the WorldTraveller
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 6:02 pm

I think that Delta will be the first US-carrier to put the A3XX in passenger-service. Yesterday evening there were CEO´s from Delta and Air France sitting together at a cnn-business show and announcing their new alliance.
And since Air-France get´s the A3XX, I am pretty shure that Delta wouldn´t stay behind them.
 
WorldTraveller
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 6:59 pm

Hi Ab.400, I'm sure I made your day with my post, right?  

I doubt that Delta has a need for the A3XX or the 747X, and since they nearly have an exclusivity deal with Boeing, they would go 747X if you ask me.

I think there will be several launch customers for the passenger A3XX like SIA, Air France, Emirates, Virgin, Malaysian (?), Cathay (?), BA (??)..., but I'm pretty sure that SIA will get the first aircraft for publicity reasons.
With that new aircraft and new levels of comfort they would be "the airline even other airlines talk about" again.

What about the chances that LH and BA order the A3XX?

I think they could get the A3XX from 2007 on when they are free delivery positions available (assuming that the launch customers would get about 60 aircraft).

Would be nice to hear your comments (and Udo, where are you?).  

Regards,
the WorldTraveller
 
gerardo
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 7:06 pm

Boeings decision to launch the B747X is another way to say, that Airbus was right. So much for my dumb part of the message.

Anyway, LH could be likely a future customer of the A3XX, as they have been quoted different times saying, that they are very interested in the A3XX, but not now. Perhaps 2007 could be right.

As for BA, I doubt a little bit. Somehow I don't see BA going for the A3XX. They are increasing their number of B777 in favour of the B747-fleet already.

Regards
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Granite
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 7:08 pm

Hi all

Anyone have any thoughts on FedEx using a cargo version?

Regards
Gary
 
WorldTraveller
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 7:09 pm

Hey Pandora, why is it sad to see two great aircraft fly in the near future?

If it was not for innovation or competition we would still cross the ocean in a DC-8 or 707.

Come on, open your eyes to the business world......and don't worry, Boeing will continue to produce exellent aircraft.

The only thing Airbus did is break their monopoly in the 400+ seat market where they could sell the 747 at high prices.
Airlines don't like being dependable on only one manufacturer (choice is everything), and now they can choose which aircraft suits them best, let it be the 747-400, 747X or the A3XX.

Regards,
the WorldTraveller
 
cedarjet
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 9:17 pm

I can't wait to go to Toulouse in a few years and watch the first flight of this amazing new aircraft. God bless Airbus for having the vision and the balls to produce this new aircraft.

Is it the A350? I heard Airbus were considering calling it the A2000. Or maybe that's a different product line.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 9:24 pm

I read from Newsweek or Time several weeks ago that if Airbus follows its naming system, the A3XX may in the end be dubbed the A350.
 
Navion
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Gerardo

Fri Jun 23, 2000 9:26 pm

Actually Gerardo, the business cases for the 747X and A3XX are very different. Boeing will not offer nor launch a NLA for $12 Billion or more but instead will invest up to $4 Billion on a 747X. Airbus has no aircraft upon which to build so they are incurring huge up front costs which have grown from an estimated $8 Billion (2 years ago, which was a joke) up to $12 Billion, and now they admit $12.5 Billion. The A3XX will be great to see, but you won't see Boeing doing the same thing. Just yesterday, an aviation analyst said the business case for the A3XX (due to it's huge cost) is likely poor, whereas for less than 1/3 of the investment, Boeing will have a comparable product (seat mile costs, payload) up to 530 seats (3 class) for much less per unit. It is a very interesting battle.
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 9:46 pm

WorldTraveller, if Delta it that deep into Boeing it will probably not break because of the A3XX. Schade eigentlich....  
But this rumor appeared on the forum before, maybe was just a fake.
But shurely a great day in aviation. Even in the radio-news it´s a big deal. I didn´t expect that much publicity about a new plane.
 
Udo
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 9:49 pm

Hi WorldTraveller,
here I am!

I'm of course very happy to hear the official and final announcement that the A3XX will be built. It will break Boeing's monopoly which has been existing long enough. The positive aspect is that competition will be present on the 400+ market which has not been the case so far. The A3XX lauch will provoke Boeing to build a B747NG which will be an excellent aircraft as well. Nobody can say at this early point of time which design will catch more orders but we will see a good competition which is good for anyone.
Why is Boeing's B777 such a great aircraft? And why do their B737NGs such a good job? Because Boeing had to work hard on them to compete with Airbus's A340/330 and A320 which took many orders away from Boeing. Airbus provoked and Boeing reacted strongly. No Airbus reacts to the B777's success again with the new A340 derivates, and maybe with a NG of the A320 (would be nice). Who knows, but that is competition and that is what will happen on the 400+ market. I'm really looking forward to that! Why do still some people ignore the great effects of competition?

Let's come to the possible customers for the A3XX: Emirates is in, great. SIA and Cathay may follow, as well as Air Ffrance. FedEx has already expressed its need for a new large cargo plane, so why not FedEx ordering the A3XXF?
LH's chairman Weber expressed that he won't get around the A3XX somewhen in 2007/2008. And BA, well quite difficult. But why not? There will always be high density routes in their network which don't allow a quick increase of frequencies.

And for all opponents (of a new large aircraft in general): I've been on a CX flight from HKG to LHR just two months ago. The B744 was full like hell, not even one single seat was empty. I talked to the pilots in the cockpit and they told me that CX is confronted with a high increase of passengers on any part of their network. The HKG-LHR route is affected much more than others. Their planes were full for weeks in advance, and even some CX pilots based in LHR had big trouble to get to get back from HKG due to the high load factors. Don't forget CX is not alone on that sector. BA flies twice daily, and Virgin flies once daily. Five nonstops every day in each direction, most of them operated by B744. Today such a B744 carries around 400 passengers in three classes, so if the growth rates of the last years go on (and they will as it seems), 550 seats can easily be filled in 2005...
But yes, we know, there will be new hubs, more frequencies and so on. YES, that will happen (I agree with you DLX!!!), but that doesn't mean there will be no need for a new extra large airctaft. I'm deadly convinced about that and I'm already looking forward to hear the reaction of all those people who still try to talk the A3XX (or the need for a new extra large airctaft in general) to dead.

I hope to find serious thoughts and posts when I come back but I fear some fools will show us their great range of unlogic thinking again as usual...

Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
na
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 9:51 pm

I think both companies made the right decision for good business results in the future. Why are many people so sceptical of Airbus not making a profit on their "big baby"? This is an investment into the future.

Without a Superjumbo Airbus will most likely never have the capability to surpass Boeing because they would not compete with them in the most prestigious class.
Traffic grows, by 2010 around twice as much people will be travelling by air as today. And a "big piece of the cake" will be going from Metropolis A to Metropolis B - not because people are forced to fly hub to hub, but because they want to go London- New York, because they want to go Frankfurt-Tokio.
Huge cities attract a good deal of all travellers, slots will be limited, so only the aircraft-size is variable for serious growth.
Therefore after 2010 I see a real boom in the Superjumbo-market - because (unless there is a new energy-crisis) there´s no other way.

 
Granite
Posts: 5026
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Interview With Richard Branson

Fri Jun 23, 2000 9:59 pm

Hi all

At lunchtime there was a small interview on the BBC News with Richard Branson about Virgin's interest in the A3XX

He mentioned, amongst other things, that the aircraft will keep the fares down for the passengers and that it will be fuel efficient and start a new era in air travel.

It will be good to see Virgin's Big Silver Bird at Heathrow  

Regards
Gary


 
cedarjet
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 10:03 pm

Whhoooooaaaaarrrrr!! An A350 (easier to type than "A3XX") will look very sexy in Virgin's metallic paint!

And, DL will never operate the A350. Ain't gonna happen, since they're so tied into Boeing.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 10:11 pm

I also think that one could expect positive effect for the environment . More people and cargo will be travelling with less fuel, due to the newest technologies used.
 
gerardo
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 10:49 pm

Navion: Airbus had indeed to invest $ 12bio, because they had no base so far. Boeing can easily take the 30 year old B747 and invest some $ 4bio to upgrade it for the 5th time. But what do they get for this investments?

Airbus gets a platform, which can easily last for decades, with lots of possibilities to upgrade the first A3XX and build a whole family. Boeing will get a 35 year old plattform, which sooner or later will have to replaced by a completely new design. And I wonder, how much Boeing will have to invest in 10 or 20 years to improve this bird once again or to develop something completely new.

Regards
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
LHMark
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 10:55 pm

As a fan and admirer of aircraft, I look forward to watching this leviathan take its maiden flight.

I don't we'll see a lot of A3xxs in the US for a while, not because of anmy "pro Boeing" sentiment on the part of the airlines, but because load factors won't justify the type's use very often. This plane has "Asia" written all over it.

It would be nice though, if the a3xx's immense capacity would be used by the airlines to lower seat/mile costs and drive arfares down, but it'll be a cold day in hell before that happens.

One thing: Boeing did not have a "monopoly" on 400+ seat aircraft. They were simply the only company to build them. Huge difference.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 10:58 pm

It has nothing to do with the announcement of the A3XX but I'm relocating and flying tonight to Toulouse....Bye bye Boston, hello Toulouse...I will enjoy again the flight tests on top of my head and will have plenty of time to get ready for 2004-2005....

E.
 
Navion
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Gerardo

Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:16 pm

Gerardo, I agree with some of your points but not the 35 year old aircraft point. First of all, the engines, avionics, interiors, materials, systems, and aerodynamics are all new or substantially changed. A 35 year old aircraft would have analog avionics and dials etc...
Second, the point of your post was Boeings reported intention to launch a 747X vindicates Airbus' position on the A3XX. My response to you was no, the 747X is not a vindication, instead if Boeing built a New Large Aircracft, that would justify the A3XX. I wasn't making any other points. I hope this helps and thanks for responding to my post.
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
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Wing And Winglets

Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:19 pm

Hi all

With the new wing being built I take it there will be no need for winglets?

Or will there?

Regards
Gary
 
fanofjets
Posts: 1977
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2000 2:26 am

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:26 pm

Although I was initially skeptical of Airbus's plans, over the past 6-12 months I have been thinking that the launch of the "super jumbo" was simply a matter of time.

Let's travel back in time to when lovebeads and tie-dyed t-shirts were groovy. We could imagine a man walking on the moon, but a plane more than twice the size and weight of a 707? Even Boeing was skeptical and added the characteristic hump so that the huge plane could carry cargo, thinking passengers were more likely to travel in SSTs in the near future. (It is ironic that SSTs were considered to be the more likely shape of planes to come than was the new widebody.) However, Boeing "bet the farm," just as they did with the 707 a decade and a half earlier, and went ahead with new design. The rest, as they say, is history.

Now, Airbus is poised to take the gamble. Such audacity is the stuff of legend; thanks to such brave moves we have so many aviation classics. I agree with several earlier posts that the competion will be good. We have seen improvements in the 737 largely because of the A320; throughout the 1960s, the DC-8 and 707 kept getting better and better.

Whether the A350 is a huge seller or not time will tell, but I am sure there will be a place for an airliner of this capacity. My guess is that the new plane will do well. Best of all, we civil aviation fans have a great deal to look forward to!
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
WorldTraveller
Topic Author
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To Granite...

Sat Jun 24, 2000 12:45 am

Hi Gary,

early drawings and models of the A3XX had no winglets on them, but now it seems that the plane will get A320 family-like winglets. I think they are still doing windtunnel test to figure out what would produce the most efficient wing.

BTW, do you know where in Great Britain the assemble the wings and how they are supposed to get to Toulouse? I know that they planned to carry them on top of a A340, but somehow I think that's not a wise idea.

Regards,
the WorldTraveller

 
WorldTraveller
Topic Author
Posts: 594
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More Details...

Sat Jun 24, 2000 1:13 am

More details have surfaced after the A3XX launch:

Final assembly will be in Toulouse, interior outfittings, paint-job and customer outfitting in Hamburg. All planes for European and Middle-East carriers will be delivered to the customers from Hamburg, the rest from Toulouse.

The Hamburg plant will get a third assembly line and will also do the final assembly of the A320 if there is not enough capacity in Toulouse in the future.

Latest news is also that the eight airlines interested signed MoU's for 52 planes, and Airbus says about 200 planes have to be sold to pay for the development costs of about 12-15$ Billion. It is expected that Airbus will make profits with the A3XX in about 9-10 years.

Regards,
the WorldTraveller
 
TWFirst
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RE: Another Story Link

Sat Jun 24, 2000 1:56 am

Here's another link to a news story about the launch:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/DailyNews/airbus000623.html
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Guest

RE: To Granite...

Sat Jun 24, 2000 2:01 am

For a while Airbus had two renderings of the A3XX in the Emirates and SIA liveries (very nice I might add) on its website. Those pix had winglets and slightly different shaped wings than the conceptional drawing you've been seeing today.

Like WorldTraveller said, wind tunnel tests will provide the final answer....and it may be a while before it's decided!
 
teahan
Posts: 4988
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 2:20 am

If Aerodynamics had the last say in the A3XX, the wings would be 83 Metres and not 79.5! I read that in a French Magasine last year.

Jeremiah Teahan
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
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A3XX Better Then Future B747-500

Sat Jun 24, 2000 2:26 am

BRAVO!
In a few years we will be able to say farewell to past century technology in the good old B747 and welcome the A350, a brandnew plane for a new millennium!

I know, I know, somewhat exagerated, but also not completely untrue. I mean, O.K. the B747 was re-engined and redesigned with winglets, EFIS etc., but a lot was kept as well. Don't forget that the basic airframe still is nearly the same as in the very first versions.
I wonder how many parts of a B747-400 are actually newly designed? 30%? 40%?? 50%??? I don't know, but it will be a modest amount. Let's consider that all these components are perfect (and thus can not be made better for the time being), then there still is room for improvement on the huge number of remaining parts!
That's where Airbus comes in. They design a completely new plane, and if we give them the same credit as to Boeing, we have to assume that all new parts (remember, that's 100% here) will be perfect for the time being!
As a last effort Boeing might offer a facelifted B747-500 or B747-600, but again, how many part will really be updated? And how about an improvement on those parts not modified? I mean, how can Boeing seriously claim they will offer the very best possible if they don't make a completely new design?



 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Boeing The Liar...

Sat Jun 24, 2000 2:28 am

Boeing is just talking nonsense AGAIN -
- around 1970 Boeing said there was no market for intercontinental twins like the A300, but after the succes of the A300 and A310, we don't here that anymore (how about B767? that's a twin too...)
- in the second half of the 1980s Boeing said there was no need for a plane like the A320, but have you looked around on aprons all over the world recently?
- in the beginning of the 1990s there was no need for smaller long haul planes like the A330 and A340 according to Boeing, but a few years later, Boeing lauched the B777...
- in the year 2000 a plane like the A3XX will never sell acording to Boeing, but I can assure you, within ten years it will be as common as the A300, A310, A32X, A330 and A340.
If Airbus would have believed all these predictions of Boeing, there wouldn't be flying much Airbusses around... Sadly for Boeing, this is not the case...
 
wingman
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 2:31 am

Beware the rosy projections of profitability from Airbus on the A3XX. Not a single aerospace analyst agrees with them. Read the Reuters byline from this week on the comments from JSA Research. The total investment when manufacturing investment is included is upwards of $18 billion. JSA thinks it is quite likely that the A3XX will generate negative returns for up to "several decades". The concept has been aggressively pushed by Airbus for many years and the result is "interest" in 50 aircraft. The 20% rate of return Airbus claims is pure fantasy. With the 747X on the block, the airlines will force Airbus to slash prices to the bone. Someone above said 200 frames is the break-even. Do the math and you'll see that's really not possible. At 200 frames, that's $60 MM of pure profit per model delivered. I don't think so.

The rosy projections from Airbus are due to the impending IPO. The IPO is predicted to be a big dissapointment for two major reasons. One, the A3XX risk. Two, very little interst from the market in traditional sectors. Airbus is in sales pitch mode right now so anything coming from Toulouse should be taken with a container of salt. This will be a fantastic plane I'm sure and good for competition, but it might also cause migraines for years to come on the business end of things. Boeing stands by this in saying the market is not ready for a BRAND NEW plane at huge cost to the manufacturer. In a purely competitive environment free of gov't assistance there is no way Airbus would have secured the funding for a launch. I strongly suspect the member states are more enthusiastic about the project than Airbus is itself. Well, that's my opinion and only time will tell. Look to Beoing to steal some major thunder in the UK. I think they've turned the corner on their restructuring and will announce massive orders for their entire range, maybe even the new 747.
 
D L X
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Udo

Sat Jun 24, 2000 3:08 am

Udo, you can't agree with me that fracturing puts market pressure towards smaller jets and then say that the 3XX (whatever it ends up being called) will ever make money. That is a contradictory statement. I never said there was no market for the 3XX. What I am saying is there is no market large enough to justify the $12B development cost. People who compare this to Boeing and its proposed 747X fail to see that these are two different situations for their respective companies. I think Airbus would have done much better for itself to build a plane to fill the gap between the 332 and the 321. No one would argue that there's no market for a plane in that sector. Think about how much money that jet, a true 767 competitor, would make.
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 3:16 am

79.5m wings instead of 83 ? One requirement expressed by airports potentially receiving the aircraft (CDG,LHR,JFK,Changi...) was to fit the A3XX in a 80x80m square...

Transporting the wings from Great Britain : All the shipment is done by the Airbus Super Transporter (and before by the Super Guppy). I would expect it is still the case for the A3XX. However, the Airbus CEO also expressed the fact that shipment by boat if necessary were not excluded....Don't worry, they'll find the answer...

One question still in the air (but more than 5 years to think about it) was how the A3XX would be refueled...1 pump, 2 pumps, this beast may need a tailored solution...

E.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Udo

Sat Jun 24, 2000 3:17 am

Sabenapilot, you make me sick. I have lost all respect for you. It's kind of funny, before, I had nothing against Sabena, but now, listening to you, I'm starting to dislike your airline.

Wasn't it Airbus that said there was no market for the 737NG, 757-300, 767-400? Well, you could argue that their sales have been slow, but I could also argue that Airbus couldn't give the A300 away until an American airline pulled you guys out of the fire. Sabenapilot, I strongly suggest you stop your hatred of Boeing's wonderful planes. I doubt your bias and bigotry are welcome here.
Dear moderators: No.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
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RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 3:28 am

Remember what Airbus' strategy is: COMMONALITY.
The A3XX is a new stepstone in this strategy. Now there is ever less reason for a company not to go to Airbus completely. Even if it will not not be profitable, the rest of the production line certainly benefits from it and thus the complete Airbus group.
Even a loss making A3XX might be very interesting!

I think the American analysis does not take into acount 2 things:
-) the fact that the A3XX must be seen embedded in a hole range of nearly similar planes.
-) the fact that the A3XX will create tens of thousands of jobs in Europe. Jobs that would not be there otherwise.
That's why I am sure it is reasonable to believe that from an American point of view (= purely financial, short term) the A3XX will be a fiasco, whereas it will be a succes from a European point of view. (=long term, social-economic).

Different priorities bring different results, remember.

 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Boeing The Liar...

Sat Jun 24, 2000 3:35 am

"we're nuts"
I'm sorry if I make you sick, but what is it then that makes you sick about my mail? I mean, didn't Boeing say all those things about Airbus' ideas? And isn't the Boeing 747-400 basically 'just' a modified B747-100?
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 3:37 am

Wingman: Hold back those horses! There are many analysts which think, the A3XX will be a success. The last analysis from a neutral analyst I read pointed out, that Airbus will have to sell 528 airframes to achieve a ROI of 8%.

Gerardo

dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
ben88
Posts: 1037
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 4:49 pm

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 3:52 am

I agree with Sabena. The A3XX will be a technological marvel, as is the Boeing 777. Yes, older designs have proven themselves over the years, but to say that they are safer and more efficient[than new designs] is simply not true. No one here will argue that the 777 is a technological masterpiece, so why are people doubting that the A3XX will cramp the 747's style?

We're Nuts: I suggest you find a dictionary, because
you obviously don't know what the word "bigot" means, unless of course you think his posts were narrow-minded, prejudiced and intolerant.
 
Hamlet69
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:45 am

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 4:01 am

Sabenapilot,

I don't want to sound too 'pro-Boeing' here, but just a few comments:

Wasn't it Airbus who said that past 5000nm, 4 engines are better than 2. Then they launched the A332 (a great plane) and increased the range of the A333.

Now then:

"Now there is ever less reason for a company not to go to Airbus completely." Hmmm... are we talking about a monopoly here? I thought the best argument to support Airbus was that competition is good. I certainly think it is.

My question is this: If Airbus' reason for launching the A3XX is to "complete their product line" and "end Boeing's monopoly in the 400 seat category" (good reasons), why build a plane that does not compete in the 400 seat category, and instead creates its own monopoly in the 500 seat category? I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, I just think we should have a little honesty here. If they truly wanted to break Boeing's monopoly, they would have launched the A3XX-50 first, then moved up to the -100 when the time was right. Remeber, even after the A3XX is built, Airbus still won't have a plane that competes with the 744.

Just a few thoughts.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 4:01 am

You are all forgeting that the 747-500/600 and A3XX are not going to be in the same class. 747-500/600 will compete with the A340-400/500. Boeing has no concerns about Airbuses plans becuase they have their own. Release the the 747-500/600 in 2 to 3 years and then release the superjumbo around 2010 when the market demands it. Like I said before boeing know what they are doing.

This is only the comercial launch, we will see if the market neads 550+ gas guzlers that are only 2/3 full(1/3 empty). They will never get 50 orders. Who knows maybe they will.
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 4:06 am

Good for Airbus! They've finally gotten the balls to take on an ultra-massive project, and are out to revolutionize the aircraft industry.
Boeing will no doubt proceed with the 747X (probably a fuselage stretch, SUD, new wing, new engines). Best of luck to them.
Now- who'll take the A3XX (or can we call it A350 now?) for passenger service? I believe Emirates will, AF will certainly, and QF may not have it ruled out yet. As for BA and DL, also mentioned, BA will almost certainly go Boeing (they only have a few Airbus A320, and they aren't too thrilled with them), and DL will probably invest in more 777 designs (perhaps the -300 stretch, probably more -200ERs). If they don't feel they can justify a 747 purchase, why the devil would they buy A3XX?
CX will likely take an order of both A3XX and 747X, since they seem to like a mixed Boeing/Airbus fleet. SIA and QF are very much in the air. SIA is likely to go with the A3XX, though I doubt if they'd rule out 747X yet. QF is obviously interested in 747X, and likely A3XX. I expect Boeing, based on previous purchases, but it's anyone's guess.
Best of luck to Airbus, and I look forward to flying on an A3XX in the future!
 
magyar
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 4:11 pm

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 4:16 am


This whole A3X X vs B747X debate is BS. Nobody on this
list (and on the orders list, which is more professional!) foresaw
the commercial launch of A3XX today. I think it is ridicouluos
to say AI does not know when to launch a product, it is more
likely that there is much more in aviation business than we
know and comprehend on this list. So our 'discussion' about
the future of 500+ category is more like toddlers' debating
Particle Physics in the nursery school.

Janos
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 4:28 am

Hi, WorldTraveller, you asked where in England the wings would be produced. I heard on BFBS-radio today that the current plant is in Wales (don´t know the exact location), so I guess the A3XX wings will be done there too.
You said earlier in a post that you think this launch makes my day. Well honestly I must say that I stick more to planes which are sized around 200-250 seats, just a little more personal I think. But anyway I have no single doubt about the success of 550-800 seat Jumbos for the future. And fortunately the future will start in 2005  
 
Guest

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 4:31 am

Magyar, Teahan did a post some days ago which announced the launch for today.
 
cwapilot
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 7:10 am

RE: A3XX Launched! (it's Finally Official)

Sat Jun 24, 2000 4:52 am

Exactly...there is much more to it than we are privy to. Today's announcement, rather than a Farnborough announcement which would have been expected, is rather unexpected. Either Airbus is going early to get as many firm orders before the show as possible, or maybe there is something bigger...They may want to get theirs out before the show to get as much exclusive, focused and positive media attention they can in order to boost their pending IPO, which ties with the next possibility: Boeing may have some huge plans (no pun intended) for Farnborough, which Airbus may have sensed. A Singapore 747X order (even a split order), for example (rumors are rumors, not saying it is definite) would definitely deflate the fanfare around the A3XX had they waited til Farnborough to begin offering it. (A QF order would have a similar effect.) A refined very large aircraft design as far along or further along than the A3XX would also dampen spirits. Some massive orders announcements as well...perhaps 777X orders...something to significantly widen the 80 aircraft lead for 2000, making the 1999 numbers insignificant. The Farnborough site STILL does not show any Airbus aircraft on static display...I would imagine the A3XX mockup would be there. Or, maybe rumors are just rumors, and Boeing will show us that it has not really changed and cannot compete with a smaller, younger competitor. It may not have "turned the corner" as someone in a previous post had said.

We are seeing the beginnings of some extremely exciting and interesting things within the next several weeks. And whichever way it turns out, we are all in for some real treats!
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!

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