ctang
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787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:33 pm

Is there any chance VS will order the 87?
 
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solnabo
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:36 pm

787 is too small for VS, my guess is more 388 and 350-10XWB.

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robertmalpass
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:38 pm

Shouldn't think so. They're only ordering 346's at the moment and appear to be switching their existing LHR-744s to holiday routes at LGW, replacing them at LHR with 346s. Surely in view of crew certification, maintenance etc. they'd stick with Airbus? Perhaps if they were a bigger airline, with greater workforce etc, perhaps they'd buy some Boeings. I hope not, I love their 346s!
 
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autothrust
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:08 pm

No way, VS want to be in long terms an all-Airbus Fleet as some articles say.  no 
Also imo they want bigger planes then the 787.
Comonality also plays a role. A380-A350XBW
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
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scbriml
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:33 pm

Well, the VS "expert insiders" here told us to expect a VS twin order at Farnborough. I'm still waiting...

If a VS order for twins is indeed on the card, it will certainly be interesting.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
scouseflyer
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:46 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
Well, the VS "expert insiders" here told us to expect a VS twin order at Farnborough. I'm still waiting...

If a VS order for twins is indeed on the card, it will certainly be interesting.

We've had definetly the 777 and definitely the A330 in the last few weeks - my money's on them taking the remaining A346s and A380s and then any expansions will be likely to be some A350XWBs - although if BA order the A380 VS will probably launch the 748I!  Big grin
 
Leezyjet
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:14 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
Well, the VS "expert insiders" here told us to expect a VS twin order at Farnborough. I'm still waiting...

VS have never made an announcement at Farnborough as far as I'm aware. There is too much competition for column inches from all the other things going on at the show. They were supposed to make a huge announcement last time round too, but didn't. They normally wait until things are quiet in the industry before announcing things, that way it is guaranteed to get exclusive column inches rather than being just one or 2 lines in a bigger article. VS know how to use the media to their advantage very well.

I'd guess they will order a twin at some stage, it is inevitable, but what they order remains to be seen. However the most of the 744's leases are due for renewal in the next few years or so, so they will need something that can replace them and that won't be the A346 as they cannot operate into the Carribbean airports VS use and there are no other 4 engined a/c out there at the moment that will be able to use those airports that will be available in the time frame VS would need them.

Watch this space.......

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BA380
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 6):
that won't be the A346 as they cannot operate into the Carribbean airports VS use

why is that...?
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FCKC
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:43 pm

Scbriml

Where is the VS twin order ? Heard nothing at Farnborough.

How many twin frames they want ?

I guess an A350XWB order is in sight.
 
LY777
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:49 pm

VS and Boeing: no way!!!
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
UAL777UK
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:57 pm

Although at some stage it will happen and a twin will be ordered it will be interesting to see what VS say when and if they do make an order......this is the airline that stated it would always fly aircraft with four engines, never two on its long haul routes.
 
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scbriml
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 8):
Where is the VS twin order ? Heard nothing at Farnborough.

I don't know - I was pointing out that there was a huge amount of speculation in this forum before Farnborough, stating that VS would place a "shocking" order for twins.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
zvezda
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:18 pm

VS could order either the A350 or the B787-10. Price will play an important role in the decision and it remains to be seen which manufacturer will offer VS the better deal. I think there is a slightly better than 50/50 chance that VS will choose the A350, but that's highly speculative.
 
Leezyjet
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RE: 787 For VS?

Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting BA380 (Reply 7):
why is that...?

Because the centre gear on the A346 does not steer, so it cannot make tight turns like the 744 can with its steerable centre bogies and most of the Carribbean airports require a/c to back track and turn round at the end of the runway, and the A346 cannot do that.

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scouseflyer
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 6):
and there are no other 4 engined a/c out there at the moment that will be able to use those airports that will be available in the time frame VS

707, DC8? Big grin
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:45 am

Never say never, but I imagine it would depend on how VS wishes to expand. If they want to serve smaller markets, then the A350 and 787 make sense.

Their premium cabins probably make a pretty penny for them, so the "penalties" of operating four-engined planes (744/A346) may not be such a drain on revenues that they feel they need to move to twins in the short-term.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 9):
VS and Boeing: no way!!!

Why is that? Is Branson pissed at Boeing for some reason?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
A340Driver
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:23 am

Deal wasn't done in time but you will note "4 engines 4 long haul" being removed from the current fleet!
 
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solnabo
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting A340Driver (Reply 17):

That´s no wonder, they start a big fleet of A320 for Virgin America, so I guess 4 engines 4 long haul rimes bad these days...

Micke/SWE  Smile
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LTU932
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 13):
Because the centre gear on the A346 does not steer, so it cannot make tight turns like the 744 can with its steerable centre bogies and most of the Carribbean airports require a/c to back track and turn round at the end of the runway, and the A346 cannot do that.

That is most curious, because I know the A346 can turn around at the end of the runway after backtracking. I've seen it happen here at SJO many times, when IB comes in with their A346s. Go to this site and search for IB's A346s at SJO. It's difficult to do this maneuver, I concede to that, but it isn't impossible and it can be done.

The only problem might be ramp space because of the large fuselage.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
VS could order either the A350 or the B787-10.

 checkmark 

While VS might be leaning more towards Airbus (this being my impression), if Boeing does finally launch the 787-10, then the 787 overall isn't out of the picture yet.
 
tigerotor77w
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:52 am

Maybe VS is the interest in the A340 Leahy has quoted?
 
scouseflyer
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:06 pm

Quoting Tigerotor77W (Reply 20):
Maybe VS is the interest in the A340 Leahy has quoted?

I don't think so as there was a quote from someone senior in VS that they probably wouldn't be ordering any more A346s due to the fuel consumption - I reckon on A350-1000s at some point.
 
A340Driver
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:37 pm

Virgin Atlantic has no connection to Virgin America. Virgin Nigeria is run by Virgin Atlantic. "4 engines 4 long haul" would not apply to a US domestic carrier.
 
columba
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 13):
Because the centre gear on the A346 does not steer, so it cannot make tight turns like the 744 can with its steerable centre bogies and most of the Carribbean airports require a/c to back track and turn round at the end of the runway, and the A346 cannot do that.

What about their A340-300s ?
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ShowerOfSparks
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:50 pm

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 13):
Because the centre gear on the A346 does not steer, so it cannot make tight turns like the 744 can with its steerable centre bogies and most of the Carribbean airports require a/c to back track and turn round at the end of the runway, and the A346 cannot do that.

Since the center gear is not displaced ahead of or behind the other main gears there is no need for it to be steerable. On the 747 the body gear is behind the wing gear making it necessary for the body gear to be steerable. If there's a reason the A346 cannot turn on the end of the runway it is simply it's length.
 
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autothrust
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:55 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 16):
Why is that? Is Branson pissed at Boeing for some reason?

You got it  Wink

IMO VS will buy the A350 and lease seom A330 as a interim solution. With the A330 they could serve very well almost all routes with a very efficient aircraft.
I dont think there are chances for the 748, could it even land at SMX?
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:07 pm

VS' fleet is not that big, so for them commonality is still a good thing. They can get 340s for a good deal, easily plug them into the fleet and have fun with them. The efficiency is not that bad. For slow replacement and/or expansion the 340 is the best way to go...

People have to keep in mind, while the 787 and 350 are more efficient than current planes, replacing small fleets of existing planes is a different thing. Commonality, experience, ... outweigh the advantages in efficiency in many situations.

The biggest sale potential is still with the big airlines who can afford long-term replacements, or actually need them, such as the QF deal. Or the pending LH surprise...

I don't see a big future for the 787 with VS...
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scouseflyer
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:30 pm

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 26):
Or the pending LH surprise...

748s?
 
aircanada014
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:56 pm

of all the posts on airliners.net most people believe VS will stick with 4 engines for longhauls. Don't forget some people wondering if VS will order B777s.
 
orlando666
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:20 pm

all the marketing "4 engines 4 long haul" etc aside, seems VS likes to bulk-ship people about in economy, tightly packed, 'ala charter. so if they ever go for a twin, i suspect 773/W. works well for EK/EY.
 
columba
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:32 pm

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 26):
Or the pending LH surprise



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 27):
748s?

787, A350, 747-8, 77-300ER as well as additional A340-600s and A380s all is
possible.
Sorry for being off-topic but as the pending LH order was brought up:

Any ideas when the order will be announced ? I was hoping for Farnborough since LH announced their order for the A330 there. But this has not happened as we all know.
Can we expect it soon or must we wait untill October till the A350XWB is offically launched and LH will have further information on it ?
But maybe it will be announced when Boeing launches the 787-10.  Wink
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Leezyjet
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RE: 787 For VS?

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:21 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19):
That is most curious, because I know the A346 can turn around at the end of the runway after backtracking. I've seen it happen here at SJO many times, when IB comes in with their A346s. Go to this site and search for IB's A346s at SJO. It's difficult to do this maneuver, I concede to that, but it isn't impossible and it can be done.

Not disputing what you say, but that was what I was told by someone at VS. I guess it depends too on the size of the turning circle available at each airport also.

Quoting ShowerOfSparks (Reply 24):
Since the center gear is not displaced ahead of or behind the other main gears there is no need for it to be steerable. On the 747 the body gear is behind the wing gear making it necessary for the body gear to be steerable. If there's a reason the A346 cannot turn on the end of the runway it is simply it's length.

No doubt the length has a part to play too, but have you ever seen an A346 make a really tight turn up close ?. I have many many times and those tyres look like they are almost about to burst off the rims as they flex so much during the turn. Repeatedly doing that day in day out would put alot of extra stress and strain on the tyres and gear which is why the A346 has certain taxiway restrictions in place at some airports to avoid that. Also length cannot be the only issue as I'm sure that the 773 does not have the same restrictions as the A346 due to it not having the centre gear and having steerable axles.

Quoting Columba (Reply 23):
What about their A340-300s ?

Capacity I would guess.

 Smile
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